Pain Ahead for Infosys, Other Indian IT Service Providers

Don Tennant

A Hong Kong-based research firm is warning investors that Indian IT service providers can no longer do business under the conventional wisdom that they can operate unscathed by those pesky visa issues that keep cropping up. Infosys, which is dealing with the ramifications of the visa fraud lawsuit brought by Infosys employee and whistleblower Jay Palmer, is one of two Indian IT vendors whose stock performance is expected to be particularly hard hit.


The research firm, CLSA Asia-Pacific, issued its Indian IT services sector downgrade on Monday. Here's an excerpt:

We are downgrading our sector recommendation for Indian IT from Neutral to Underweight as we watch the margin of safety in Indian IT stocks recede. We see three extant islands of optimism being tested in Indian techs in coming months. 1) 20%+ growth is achievable in FY13/14 for Tier-1 vendors. 2) Visa issues are unlikely to alter business prospects. 3) Valuations of Tier-1 techs are not at risk. We expect the upcoming months to be a downward inflexion point for trends in all three parameters driving stock prices down, though June quarter results are unlikely to show any material proof points. Indian IT holds little promise of sustainable absolute returns hereon. We are downgrading TCS and Infosys to Underperform and have no positive ratings in the sector now.

The Wall Street Journal's India Real Time website, citing the CLSA report, noted that clampdowns on visa oversight in the United States and other countries are changing the Indian IT landscape:

The visa issue is potentially becoming a game changer for the Indian IT industry, which takes many workers overseas for projects. But visa policy in client markets like the United States, the United Kingdom, Switzerland and Canada has, for the past 12-18 months, been veering towards greater oversight and more stringent rules, the [CLSA] report noted.


Rejection rates for works visas for some of the biggest Indian tech companies have soared to nearly 40%, up from a mere 5% 18 months ago, the report noted. At least one top tier IT company has not received a single work visa in either the short-term or long-term visa categories for its personnel in the last four and a half months, CLSA said. IT companies in India generate about 60% of their combined $50 billion annual revenue from U.S. clients.

Meanwhile, Livemint.com, a media partner of The Wall Street Journal in New Delhi, is reporting that a U.S. embassy official there has let it be known that the United States is scaling back the "Business Executive Program," which expedites visas for companies that send large numbers of workers to the United States. According to the report, the United States has reduced the number of Indian companies in the program from more than 500 to around 300.


In a separate development, Robert O. Blake, assistant secretary for South and Central Asian affairs, was asked during a Q&A session in India on Monday what the impact on U.S.-India trade relations would be if the visa fraud allegations against Infosys prove to be true. Blake's response was that it would just be a "momentary blip" on the trade relations radar screen, and that Infosys would continue to be a key partner for U.S. firms:

I don't think it will have a major impact on our trade relations. Our trade relations have a momentum all their own that is not driven by how many B or H or other visas are given. The fact of the matter is there's a huge volume of new visas that are being issued every year by our consulates and by our embassy in New Delhi. India is the largest recipient of H visas; one of the largest recipients of L visas which are the intra-company transferee visas; and will continue to be so because it's a very dynamic economy and growing economy. Again, the whole range of B visas also are increasing fast.


That will be I think a sort of momentary blip. Infosys itself is obviously a very well-known company and will continue to be a very important partner for a wide range of American companies.

I'm not so sure. I have to wonder if Blake is familiar with the extent of the allegations against Infosys, and of the U.S. government's criminal investigation of the company. Infosys' U.S. clients are almost certainly already getting antsy about the notion of illegal employees working on their premises. If Infosys is found to be guilty of widespread criminal activity in this country, it's difficult to imagine that the company would be seen as anything other than toxic.

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Jun 22, 2011 10:10 AM Dr. Gene Nelson Dr. Gene Nelson  says:

Employer abuse of the work visa programs (that employers designed) pits the world's poor against the American middle class. Economic and political elites are the prime beneficiaries. Sadly, most of the economic benefits of liberal immigration policies are privatized while the costs are socialized. For more details, please see "The Greedy Gates Immigration Gambit"   tinyurl.com/37l8ry

Jun 22, 2011 4:52 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says:

Very interesting development - livemint, which is an Indian-centric online news source owned by the WSJ did their own two month investigation and are reporting that misuse of visas may be widespread, and not the exception to the rule.

An affiliate of the WSJ and Hindustan Times (livemint) is reporting this so the story is really mainstream at this point.  There really is no denying that fraud and abuse exists - and according to livemint common within American companies also.  The real question is what policy makers will do to resolve the problem.


Jun 22, 2011 4:54 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to R. Lawson

To clarify my last post, I'm not sure if the WSJ owns livemint or not so that may be a mistatement.  Their banner says "Livemint & The Wall Street Journal" and the About link says they are part of the Hindustan Times.  Clearly they are associated with the WSJ in some way.

Jun 22, 2011 5:49 PM BT1024 BT1024  says: in response to R. Lawson


I was just browsing 3 articles on Livemint.com, one of which you reference (I listed one of the others below, since it's about the B-1 visa)...

Anyhow, I was also wondering what the connection was between Livemint and WSJ, when I saw the "tag" on the Livemint site - So, I checked wikipedia.org Here's what is posted on Wikipedia about Livemint.com:

  "Mint is a business newspaper from HT Media Ltd, launched in collaboration with The Wall Street Journal on 1 February 2007." (Link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mint_%28newspaper%29)

Here's the other Livemint.com article, it's about the B-1 visa:

"B-1 visa holders in demand on job portals":


Jun 22, 2011 5:58 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to BT1024

Thank you for the additional information BT1024.  Went to wikipedia link you provided and see that they are actually very big in India with wide circulation:

"Mint is now India's 2nd most widely read national business daily. It has a readership of over 1.75 lakhs in Delhi and Mumbai , with the average reader belonging to the age group of 35 to 44. It also has editions in Ahmedabad, Chennai, Bangalore, Kolkata, Chandigarh and Pune."

For western readers:

"A lakh ( /'lk/ lak or /'l??k/ lahk; also lac) is a unit in the Indian numbering system equal to one hundred thousand (100,000; 105)"

175,000 seems low in a country with over a billion people.  Is that right or am I misinterpreting a lakh?

Jun 22, 2011 6:10 PM Ram Ram  says:

Well why should an IT company's revenue depend on immigration process of a sovereign country? Are they 'IT' business or something else!!

Jun 22, 2011 6:23 PM Visafraud abroad Visafraud abroad  says:

Hi Don, we have a similar problem in Germany but the authorities cannot act without someone like Palmer blowing the whistle. This is to anybody: Whoever knows an IT company using business visa for consultancy work in Germany, please write to poststelle@bfdw.bfinv.de

Any information would be appreciated!!!

It's a shame that the companies are abusing the fact that salaries and living expenses in India are less than in the US or Europe. It's exploitation!!!

Jun 22, 2011 6:35 PM Laxman Laxman  says: in response to Ram

@Ram: Because, as you know, "software" and "IT business" are euphemisms for what really involves a lot of bodies (and far fewer gigabytes I guess) crossing geographical borders.

At the mere mention of scaling down the visa numbers, the outsourcing industry goes into overdrive protesting. What more proof does one need that labor is the key ingredient in the modus operandi.

Jun 23, 2011 8:57 AM Uday Uday  says: in response to R. Lawson

I agree Roy to some of your point specially being on the white side of the law. But at the same time, it is very difficult and thin line to decide on this. I will not like to second guess a law personally.. But if you move too much in caution, it can primarily mean that anyone who is offshore cannot come to US keeping his day job (which was offshore). I will interpret it this way.. Or for example I am employed by a US corporation which transfer money to my international bank account in a different country. Can I come to US on B1? Probably not.. Because I am still being paid by the US corporation for my services?.. Very tough interpretation.. I will wait to see what the outcome of this investigation is before it becomes clear in my mind what is lawful or not.. Till than everything else is gray except the sales meetings..

Jun 23, 2011 10:24 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Uday

Uday, how I interpret your comment is that you are self employed - so in your situation you have a client in US that as a consultant you need to work with on say kicking off a project?

First, I would advise you to seek legal counsel before you take any advice I have.  That disclaimer aside, I believe the law works this way.

The B-1 visa prohibits "gainful employment" and requires payment in foreign currency.  So, how corporate law works in the United States is this.  I form a corporation (in my case LLC) and I happen to be the only person in that corporation (well, I have two but whatever).  I would guess that you would form the Indian equivalent, get a business license, and so forth.

So, the client would pay your corporation in USD.  Your corporation (which you happen to control) would write a check from your corporate account to you personally, in Indian currency.  You should be separating personal and business finances anyways so this is business 101.

Now, the rule is still to stay away from "gainful employment" so you should limit your activities in the US to - if I understand the law correctly - non billable activities like proposals or closing the deal and other business meetings not involving work. 

My previous post on analysis may in fact be wrong because that appears to be gainful employment.  What you could do is partner with someone local to fulfill work with the client and draft requirements documents for you.  Or, you could use technology like conference calling.  Up to you, but the keyword is "gainful employment". 

If you partner with someone local, well you just created a local opportunity and now trade becomes more "win-win".  I don't understand why the apprehension to simply work with local firms on solving problems like this.  If I had an Indian client I would most likely reach out to someone local in India to assist in that project.  It just makes sense.  I may fly out and meet with stakeholders, understand the problem to be solved, and allow another person to get into the details.

Think outside the box my friend.  Be creative.  That's how we get business done.  Too much one-track thinking going on.

Jun 23, 2011 10:53 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says:

Not looking good on the jobs front for the Americans....


Jun 23, 2011 1:16 PM Uday Uday  says:

The implications for B1 Visa will be important for everyone. In the extreme, it will literally mean that no service professional be an expert move across borders and offer a service where his / her expertise is needed for a short-term. The US precedence will be followed by rest of the world in similar way. I will be interested in seeing how it evolves and changes the world..

Jun 23, 2011 4:11 PM Uday Uday  says: in response to R. Lawson

Roy.. Got tell you something.. "Be Creative" .. is the allegation against the Infosys.. Just joking.

Anyways.. I will rather be not doing this business than get into any headache. It is better be away than trying to interpret the law to do business. I always believe that if a business cannot be run by common sense  and judgement and require legal advice to save from criminal penalties, one needs to be careful and just stay away.

Jun 23, 2011 5:05 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Uday

Uday, global business has been conducted in the United States with  international visitors doing business for hundreds of years quite successfully.  The only risk is to those who decide that they want to violate laws which really aren't that complicated, or play in legal gray areas.

It's simple.  If you are on a B-1 visa don't WORK (meaning PRODUCE) here.  You handle your business, sign agreements, but the production side of things should not occur here by those on the B-1.  This is only a headache for people trying to find every means possible to violate the letter and/or the spirit of the law.

By "be creative" I did not mean you find ways to break the law, like Infosys does.  I meant that you work within the law and make things happen.  If you can't do that, you really don't have the salt to compete in global business. 

I mean really, if a consultant can't solve a simple problem like navigating the least restrictive business visa we have how in the world do we expect you to solve truly complex business problems?

If you're only business trick is low-balling everyone else, how good could you really be?  You start to learn how to be a good consultant when your rates are way higher than everyone else's.  You've got to deliver some value and justify those rates.  With that mentality, India is in for some serious problems when their rates are no longer cheaper than everyone else's.

Jun 23, 2011 5:40 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Uday

"The implications for B1 Visa will be important for everyone. In the extreme, it will literally mean that no service professional be an expert move across borders and offer a service where his / her expertise is needed for a short-term."

That's not really true.  What it means is that you won't be able to do the WORK here.  You could still do the consulting, meet with clients, and so forth.

I think it raises some questions in terms of analysis.  Would gathering requirements and say wire-framing be considered "work".  I think the law, to be fair, should very clearly define what "work" is.  In my view doing a mockup (throw-away code/pseudo code/UI design), keeping meeting notes, and gathering requirements should be fair game.  Not sure what the letter of the law is.  But actual implementation of requirements or things we all consider "work" should not qualify for B-1 visa.

Really, people just need to use some judgement and live within the spirit of the law.  Obviously ICE can't follow you around but the intent of the B-1 is to help you facilitate international business and not log hours.  In many contracts analysis is billable so if your client is paying for your time is that work?  I'll let others weigh in on that point. 

Perhaps a good rule of thumb (for software developers) is this - if you have MS Word, PowerPoint, Visio, or other design applications open and you are sitting in a meeting room and have meetings scheduled throughout the duration of your stay, that is probably fair game.  If you have an IDE open and you are writing code, that is probably unfair work.  A gray area would be design tools in the IDE (like, say you have the IDE open but you are just creating UI mockups and not wiring them in with code).  That is probably OK but you risk being perceived as doing work by others casually walking by - so use caution. 

As an American I simply want Indian companies to live within the spirit of the law.  Some Indian companies are trying to do the bare minimum (such as paying everyone the low end of prevailing wage) and some spend all their time finding loopholes.  If your company is doing that you aren't being a good guest or corporation in our country.  Understand our laws before you come and make sure that in good conscience you are following them. 

When it comes to tax law someone gave me some good advice in the form of a story.  One business person wanted his accountant to keep his books right on the line, doing just enough to avoid prison.  He lived his entire life in the gray area of the law.  The other business person wanted his accountant to keep his books in a way that he has no fear of falling of the edge.  Needless to say, eventually the first accountant slips off the edge at some point, whereas the other uses an abundance of caution and never fears being on the wrong side of the law.

Use an abundance of caution with our immigration laws and you will do just fine.  Make sure you aren't teetering on the edge in terms of prevailing wage or doing things outside the scope of your visa and you don't need to ever worry about deportation, losing your status, or immigration law violations that potentially lands you in prison.

Jun 24, 2011 10:51 AM Sam Sam  says: in response to Dolores

there could be thousands of excuses for not working hard and aspire for getting everything. Its easy to keep on blaming others, giving excuses, fighting or finger pointing to other but its not that difficult to put some efforts in the work you are doing Dolores! beleive it!

Jun 24, 2011 11:52 AM Hireamerican Hireamerican  says: in response to Sam

In fact, it does not involve a whole lot of work and easy as pie.....

Just fake the resume and I will be your reference, Dolores :P

Jun 24, 2011 1:20 PM Uday Uday  says: in response to R. Lawson

Roy - The traditional business model of export where location of production can be distinguished from location of delivery does not apply in case of services. It is very difficult to create the distinction. It is very easy to get into a gray zone. Let us say I come to a client site for discussions. I heard here the issues. If I provide an advice at that time, will that be construed solution.. Well I am making it an extreme case but when you read headlines and the overall atmosphere you will like to judge on caution and avoid then risk. The kind of political immigrant bashing happening at this time will dissuade at least people like me.

As far as India is concerned, I think it is good for India in someways.. For last many years most of young Indians went only in software companies irrespective of their study streams.. Today there is a need for them to work in the local economy too. India and Indians have learnt a lot from the whole outsourcing / offshoring specially on the management side. India has moved away from traditional British mindset of hierarchy to American mindset of getting things done.. and I think that approach is necessary to be applied in many core sectors where we are ages behind developed nations. So all in all if this happens it is good for India and good for US.

The only fallout is that I had seen a significant people to people relationship and contact between India and US which was better than Govt to Govt contact. In fact that is what has driven the Indian relationship with US over last decade. This seems to be going downhill with many business deals going not in mutual zone.. That probably is the biggest downside.

Jun 24, 2011 2:13 PM Uday Uday  says: in response to Uday

And BTW given the minscule size of IT exports around 36 BN dollars to India from US, the actual US wage component of equivalent production will be anywhere around 15-18 BN dollars which can probably create 200-300 K direct jobs earning 10K per month.. It is very high level back of envelope calculation. This is when outsourcing to India completely stops. Correct me if I am wrong here.

So the problem of unemployment rate correction is not going away.. The point is that Politicians are always symbolic and it takes them a while to get to the root cause. The root cause is decline of manufacturing dominance of America.. China has replaced US as a number 1 supplier not only in US but also around the world. The global surplus which was flowing to US earlier is no longer available to feed in to economy. Most of the business are running costs conscious.. Imagine a business like morgan stanley asking employees to cut BlackBerry costs.

I will wait and see when the dust settles. I am sure few jobs will be saved and few created in IT sector by cutting down some portions of global work but impact will not be substantive to make a dent on overall unemployment.

The net job creation in US over many last decades happened by leading the world and doing new things.. Today that is no longer the focus or even if some politicians have it, the rhetoric is far too bigger and higher than any coherent policy.

There is a scope of innovation in areas of energy.. But again countries specially China are competing neck-in-neck with US. Not sure if the innovation is going to come from US or outside.. and who is going to take the advantage of it in Global production scheme. Definitely US will benefit and a new boom will come domestically because of the changes but overall global surplus may not flow to US.

US needs to think very differently in today's world and globalized environment to compete and lead. The changes have been too fast paced over last decade due to internet and IT. The political thinking to do that and also ability of people to absorb this is going to take time to follow. So far the focus seems to be narrow and towards a symptomatic crisis of unemployment. There are many other associated symptoms which are emerging but getting missed like debt etc. Only old approaches are not going to work. I will wait to see how thinkers in US respond and grasp the root cause, which BTW US has very good and best from everywhere in the world.

Jun 24, 2011 2:30 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says:
Jun 24, 2011 4:10 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Uday

The US needs to reassert our national sovereignty. Data privacy laws would go a long way towards curtailing the offshoring of back office work. It's not just programming that they are stealing. The UK went in for offshoring heavily before we did, and every time their reporters did a sting about UK citizen data being stolen and sold, they hit paydirt. As for technical skill, the wage gap has narrowed majorly. Most of all we need a national will to quit putting our people out by the curb on trash day. It's not a flat world, the third world is not our friend, and we need a government that understands this. And we need a big fat custard pie in the face for both Sharma and Mittal.

Jun 24, 2011 4:25 PM Sam Sam  says: in response to Hireamerican

ya but make sure you have at least enough understanding to even fake a resume, else you will be kicked out in a flash. After that all you can do is to crib for jobs on the name of nationality and that too in extent of requesting jobs in the display name :P

Jun 24, 2011 4:53 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to Sam

Ummm...Pay someone to do your resume, and then just pay some bribes and you are off to the races....and eventually an island or something when you get eventually caught :P


And as for the name, it's better than faking the name of another religion/culture :P

Jun 24, 2011 5:54 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Uday

"India has moved away from traditional British mindset of hierarchy to American mindset of getting things done.. "

That is a great analogy.  Remember, the reason we beat the British in the American Revolution is because they lined up in nicely formed rows in bright red uniforms so we could easily see them, while we stood behind trees and shot them.  They are also nice enough to let us know when they are going to fire their weapons... Ready .... Aim .... hey, get down they're about to fire.

"The root cause is decline of manufacturing dominance of America.."

I agree that is a major problem, and a symptom of the root cause.  But the root cause in the decline of manufacturing is that we started supporting neo-liberal trade policies.  Free trade.  We allowed trade imbalances and trade partners cheating to go unanswered - always out of fear of a trade war and with a chorus of free traders shouting "protectionism" to those who wanted to problem solved.

In terms with our relationship to India, there is resentment among Americans because Indian companies really are seeking one-sided business relationships and they are getting greedy.  If Indian companies hired more than a few token Americans here in our own country, some who later become whistle blowers because of the things they witness - there wouldn't be so much resentment.

The margins must be so thin that they feel their only way to compete is to drive the hammer down on wages.  The fact that they are so concerned about the H-1b and getting their less costly workers here tells me that margins are so thin they fear the prospect they must hire more expensive Americans and their profits vanish.

That's the problem with a race to the bottom.  Eventually, you hit the bottom.  The winner in that race doesn't really win.

Jun 24, 2011 6:38 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to R. Lawson

But Roy, in the end, the executives are laughing all the way to the bank.

The compmay, the share holders and the employees are screwed, but the execs do not care.

Jun 24, 2011 7:28 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to hireamerican

"But Roy, in the end, the executives are laughing all the way to the bank."

When this economy finally collapses these people will be lining up to jump out the top floor of their buildings. 

If the economy doesn't collapse, they will be killing themselves before facing a jury.  Look at almost every single high profile corporate corruption case we've had and you can find where these guys just couldn't take it.  Enron is a great example.

I think the problem will solve itself.  Darwinism will kick in and somethings got to give.  If I lose it all, some of my best memories of me poor in Hawaii.  Life gives me lemons I make lemonade.  Life gives me sand, I make a beach.  All I need are lemons and some sand. 

These guys lose it all - well adios.  Their life means nothing without power and money so they would rather just end it now.

Most of these guys aren't really entrepreneurial or risk takers either (well, personal risk at least).  They are playing with other people's money and have no personal stake.  That is why I think it is absurd that the investor class doesn't turn on these clowns and their enormous pay packages.

Jun 25, 2011 8:32 AM Su Su  says: in response to hireamerican

No. Whenever economy goes strong it creates good for nothings - it is same for spoiled brat of a millionaire to a citizens of biggest GDP....and it repeats cycle throughout history... I have said time and again comparing present with past and hoping for the best is not going to happen....US infact working hard to prevent it.

Jun 25, 2011 3:47 PM Uday Uday  says: in response to hireamerican

Roy - One more important phenomenon which has happened is what I call as "Democratization of Knowledge and Information." The knowledge and information which was confined earlier in high walls of libraries of big universities has become universally and ubiquitously available on internet. Good and smart people anywhere in the world can learn faster and dont have to travel to Harvard to learn it here only. That change is a fundamental challenge to geographic dominance of global thought and intellectual leadership. 

The immediate impact on jobs because of some companies doing labor arbitrage is important to solve.. but at the same time what is more important to solve is how America as a geographical nation maintain its leadership in world where intellectual property is dispersely getting created.

Thus fundamentally if we are in a zero-sum world order, US is going to lose because it is ahead..If not, the question is how the world can grow and how US can take a better pie of it.

Jun 25, 2011 4:36 PM hieamerican hieamerican  says: in response to Su

The US economy was doing fine, people were WORKING and the economy was doing well, until the H1b floodgates opened, and the economy tanked.Time to turn things around!!!

Jun 25, 2011 5:18 PM Su Su  says: in response to R. Lawson


But the root cause in the decline of manufacturing is that we started supporting neo-liberal trade policies.  Free trade.



The problem with root cause analysis is... human tendency is to go to the extent they want to go or see. Go further and find the root cause for free trade and you'll find something there.

"Free trade differs from other forms of trade policy where the allocation of goods and services among trading countries are determined by artificial prices that may or may not reflect the true nature of supply and demand. These artificial prices are the result of protectionist trade policies, whereby governments intervene in the market through price adjustments and supply restrictions. Such government interventions can increase as well as decrease the cost of goods and services to both consumers and producers."


'artificial prices that may or may not reflect the true nature of supply and demand. These artificial prices are the result of protectionist trade policies'


'artificial prices'

I have talked enough on these lines so this time just quoted wiki and won't argue much on Saturday

As I always said if not free trade some kind of policy is required to handle good-for-nothing workforce, rather than protecting them.

Jun 25, 2011 7:32 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to Su

Your so called good for nothing workforce was doing just fine and the economy was going strong.

No need for root casue analysis here.The truth is glaring in our faces :P

Jun 25, 2011 7:42 PM Marilyn Teo Marilyn Teo  says:

Who are covering the Infosys saga ?

I think Don is doing the best job ...apart from Don,the recent New York Times article  has dragged Infosys name down the gutter worldwide.

I am surprised by the quality of the Livemint investigations.Really impressed.

Also, there is this new blog by some ex IT recruiters : xrecruiters.blogspot.com/

Seem these guys are heavy hitters too!

Jun 26, 2011 7:46 PM Everest Everest  says: in response to Su

Chu, Bu, Fu and Su decided to immigrate from China to the US. In order to get a Visa, they had to adapt their names to American standards. Chu became Chuck, Bu became Buck. Fu and his sister Su decided to stay in China.

Jun 27, 2011 11:22 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Everest

More appropriate for the locker room.

Jun 27, 2011 12:18 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to hieamerican

If H1 is so easy (as you presumed unlimited count of h1 is there ) and cheap (as you presumed...cheap labor, cheap visa fees, super fast processing) to get and maintain why would Corporate(s) go for B1 and L1 visas?

And why is the investigation on B1 visa usage by Infosys not on H1 usage ?

Economy didn't tanked because of H1...it is because of banking sector and their greed, the pain everyone (including the whole world) facing is no way related to H1, unless if someone decided not ready to understand the truth or part of big banking game/greed.

Jun 28, 2011 3:43 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to who knows

Because outsourcing corporations use any and all means to get their people onsite, hence the use of all the visas available.

Well....banks were giving out loans to people they shouldn't have....like people here temporarily without much credit history. which means all temp visa workers, illegal aliens etc etc etc...

Well...the whole world revolved around the US, So whatever happens in the US, it impacts the rest of the world.

Jun 29, 2011 5:30 PM Wakjob Wakjob  says:

"Pain"? What the heck do you think American IT workers have been feeling at the hands of India, Inc. for the past 13 years? What goes around, comes around, India.

Jun 29, 2011 5:39 PM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to who knows

The world wasn't facing any pain before India was let into the world economy.

Indian workers take but don't produce.

Indian workers earn less than Americans, reducing tax receipts.

L-1 workers pay NO income taxes, replacing each taxpayer with a non-taxpayer.

Indian workers send their $ back to India, Americans spend theirs here.

In 1998 economy was booming before the H-1 caps were raised into the millions.

The banks and even US companies like GM had to be bailed out because of India:

GM was booming in 2006 and signed a $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year. 2 years later, GM is bankrupt and had to be bailed out by US taxpayers. In effect, US taxpayers are subsidizing India's incompetence and delusions.

Fannie Mae had hired large numbers of Indians before going under. One was even convicted of computer hacking and sent to prison.

Americans had to bail out Fannie Mae also.

Even Lehman hired large numbers of Indian workers. Gone. Bankrupt.

Why do banks fail? Because people don't pay their loans back. Why don't people pay their loans back? Because their source of income (job) was taken away and given to remittance-hungry foreign workers. No job, no way to pay the mortgage or car payment. The direct replacement of MILLIONS of highly-paid Americans with foreign workers is the prime cause of the bank failures. More American bailouts, more subsidies for failed India.

Any way you look at this, India caused every bit of this mess we are now in. In 1998 before you got here the US economy was booming.

There will be no recovery until foreign workers are deported and AMERICANS are put back to work.

Jul 5, 2011 5:42 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to Wakjob

One thing is very clear after reading your comment, you don't have any knowledge on what you are talking or simply decided to hide the truth.

Your comment :"L-1 workers pay NO income taxes, replacing each taxpayer with a non-taxpayer."

 100% false information, if any works on L1 in a tax year and earned more than $3400 they have to pay income tax.Better understand different visas and their tax liability.FYI person on L1 has to pay even FICA but legally they can't extend beyond certain number years and they can't transfer their FICA contribution to home country if their home country doesn't have any treaty with US.

Your comment :"Indian workers send their $ back to India, Americans spend theirs here."


 If you speaking about person came on L1 then obviously he/she has no choices because L1 is not like H1 which is of dual intent (where he/she can apply for Permanent Residency latter).Once you have no choice of investing here you have to send the money back to home country.And he/she can't stay and eat free here...so he/she has to spend on rent, transport..etc other than some part goes as savings back to home country.If you don't save and just spend every penny then you are in real trouble, learn from your grandparents about importance of savings which is missing in current generation but still there with immigrants.

Your Comment: "In 1998 economy was booming before the H-1 caps were raised into the millions."

 To my knowledge highest count h-1 caps had was 195,000, which is not in millions.If you are speaking about the all counts of H1 cap from year 1992 - 2010 (close to two decade) then may be right. FYI 1992 - 2010 total number of h1 count allowed is 1.845 million and officially approved is 1.535 million.And all approved h1 doesn't mean all H1 resource came to US.And there is no count on how many left the country (for various reasons).Unfortunately you understood everything in other way around, because of the boom (I personally don't believe it was boom and it is just because of Y2K fixing) and corporate not able to get resources they got congress to increase the quota.There is always understand in right way and wrong way and from your comments it clear you decided to understand/read everything in wrong way.Given below is the H1 cap for each year, try to understand from the data.


 FY Year          Total Cap      H1B Approved     Unused H1B     Adv Degree Cap



     1992               65,000          48,600               16,400     

     1993               65,000          61,600                Reply

Jul 5, 2011 5:42 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to Wakjob

     1994               65,000          60,300               4,700     

     1995               65,000          54,200               10,800     

     1996               65,000          55,100               9,900     

     1997               65,000          65,000                    0     

     1998               65,000          65,000                    0     

     1999            115,000       115,000                    0     

     2000            115,000       115,000                    0     

     2001            195,000       163,600               31,400     

     2002            195,000          79,100            115,900     

     2003            195,000        78,000            117,000     

     2004               65,000          65,000                     Reply

Jul 5, 2011 5:42 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to Wakjob

     2005               65,000          65,000                    0               20,000

     2006               65,000          65,000                    0               20,000

     2007               65,000          65,000                    0               20,000

     2008               65,000          65,000                    0               20,000

     2009               65,000          65,000                    0               20,000

     2010               65,000          65,000                    0               20,000

Your Comment:"The banks and even US companies like GM had to be bailed out because of India:

GM was booming in 2006 and signed a $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year.2 years later, GM is bankrupt and had to be bailed out by US taxpayers.In effect, US taxpayers are subsidizing India's incompetence and delusions."


          I don't think you ever had any clue on what is going around (in any industry for that matter) otherwise you won't give such a unrealistic argument.Please don't throw such arguments otherwise no one will take you seriously.Give a legitimate argument for everyone's benefit, the deal you mentioned was part of $15billion IT work and only Indian company got some part of it is Wipro.It is just 2% of the whole 5yr contract awarded to different IT companies.The reason GM decided to outsource is "it was already lost $2.2billion in just 9 months of 2005" and they decided to outsource just to bring down lose it is making. Reply

Jul 5, 2011 5:43 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to Wakjob
GM was losing business because of the competition from Asian auto makers and has no vehicle to compete with competitors and huge commitment towards pension payment.



Your Comment:"Fannie Mae had hired large numbers of Indians before going under.One was even convicted of computer hacking and sent to prison.

Americans had to bail out Fannie Mae also.

Even Lehman hired large numbers of Indian workers.Gone.Bankrupt.

Why do banks fail?Because people don't pay their loans back.Why don't people pay their loans back?Because their source of income (job) was taken away and given to remittance-hungry foreign workers.No job, no way to pay the mortgage or car payment.The direct replacement of MILLIONS of highly-paid Americans with foreign workers is the prime cause of the bank failures.More American bailouts, more subsidies for failed India.

Any way you look at this, India caused every bit of this mess we are now in.In 1998 before you got here the US economy was booming.

There will be no recovery until foreign workers are deported and AMERICANS are put back to work."

     I don't think you have any clue even in financial sector, you may want to try some google search on why Housing bubble has happened.I am worried (if you are serious person to understand and fix a problem) for your inability to understand the issue and put it in right perspective to find a solution.I don't want to wake a person who is acting like sleeping because it is waste of my time.

Jul 5, 2011 5:48 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to hireamerican

Too many assumptions stand for nothing, better come to real world and speak things in real world rather creating story lines.

Jul 6, 2011 9:18 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to who knows

Why debate this? The US citizens do not want the H1bs. Period.

Jul 6, 2011 11:59 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to Your_Nemesis_Again

You can keep ypur growth rates all for yourself.....we want to keep our paltry growth rate for ourselves....no issues there.

As for corporations...they can go whereeer they want to...it does not really matter to us.

Jul 6, 2011 12:01 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to IT_Manager

It really does not matter...we do not want any visa programs. Send them all packing. Period.

Jul 6, 2011 1:02 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to hireamerican

May be people need to wake up ...because America's political system always provide/give what corporate(s) want (tax break,no/less regulations, etc.,). They (corporations) know where to go when they need and for sure they will get it.

You seems to be just a keyboard tiger (fight across all blogs/forums) with no action but comments with full of hates and gets satisfied with it.

Just having display name "Hireamerican" and spread hate comments all over internet won't get corporate(s) to hire Americans.

Here is what I would do if I am so mad at immigrants (And if I have a presumed notion of 99% immigrants are fraud and all problems in my country is because of them)

Instead of working for day labor and also collect unemployment insurance (new fraud of $17billion/year identified), I will gather those 14million unemployed citizens and filter the best and brightest to 2millions (which is more than 1.5millions h1b visa approved so far) across country who can fill all h1 jobs.

List the all companies who are hired/hiring H1b's, get the labor certification data (from flcdatacenter.com) and start applying for those jobs for the salary mentioned in LCA (it will for sure higher than unemployment insurance of $250/week - $400/week). Keep doing this until all H1 gets laid off (and make sure my company gets return ticket for every h1 laid off as per law) and gets back to their home country.

With whole company is filled with only citizens (because as per your view other than citizens everyone else is fraud or participate in fraud)  and now I will request every citizen to actively monitor their respective company for any fraud on other work visas like L1, B1 etc and keep blowing my whistle till all fraud is stopped. And protect my colleague if he/she is reporting to me and who blows the whistle of any fraud to govt.


By doing those I will be happy for getting jobs to fellow citizens, corporate(s) will be happy on getting cheap labors (as per your view on h1b) and finally all immigrants will be out of your country who are main reason behind all the trouble (as per your view).

Jul 6, 2011 4:18 PM Your_Nemesis_Again Your_Nemesis_Again  says: in response to hireamerican

Don't wish for that ... do you how many American (and other developed economy) corporations are doing business in the Emerging markets? In fact, according to the latest IMF report, over the next 2 to 3 decades, bulk of the growth (7-8%) is going to happen in the developing world (BRICs, Latin America, Africa, Eastern Europe, Middle East, Indonesia, etc) and the developed world will see a paltry growth of 2%. So, are you saying the citizens of the developing world should ask American corporations to get out? It's a flat world (in case you didn't know) and there's got to be 'give and take'. That's one reason the free trade agreements were put in place. When profits of American corporations were soaring, you didn't see any problems, but now you have problems, huh?

Jul 6, 2011 4:58 PM IT_Manager IT_Manager  says: in response to who knows


Very good rebuttal of wacko's false, duplicitous, and misleading claims.

Jul 8, 2011 2:12 PM Rajesh Rajesh  says: in response to who knows


Very well said Ranga! Hopefully some one will take effort and do this than just  spam all with hate messages ...Let's see if atleast 1 ot these folks can ACT NOW!! Pls wake up hireAmerican Period.

Nov 9, 2011 4:04 PM Kathryn Arrambide Kathryn Arrambide  says: in response to Rajesh


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Sep 29, 2012 9:38 AM global visa global visa  says:
Tier 2 Visas, Tier 2 Visa - Global Migrate This section explains how you can come to the UK or remain here as an intra-company transferee under Tier 2 Visas of our points-based system. Keywords:- Tier 2 Visas, Tier 2 Visa Contact Us:- Head Office (pre booked appointments only) International House, 39 Great Windmill Street, Piccadilly, London W1D 7LX Tel: +44 (0)207 993 4762 Fax: +44 (0)207 691 7969 Email: headoffice@global-migrate.com http://global-migrate.com/tier-2-visa.html Reply
Mar 4, 2013 6:54 AM Global Migrate Global Migrate  says:
This Section Explains how you Can Come to the UK or Remain here as an intra-Company Transferee Under Tier 2 Visas of our Points-Based System. The United Kingdom offers a special type of visa for people from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) who want to immigrate for work. These visas, which took the place of work permits, are part of the Points-Based System and are called Tier 2 Visas. Keywords Tier 2 Visas, Tier 2 Visa Contact Us Head Office (pre booked appointments only) International House, 39 Great Windmill Street, Piccadilly, London, W1D 7LX Tel: +44 (0)207 993 4762 Fax: +44 (0)207 691 7969 Email: headoffice@global-migrate.com Reply

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