Infosys Whistleblower Provides Hard-hitting Testimony to Senate Hearing

Don Tennant

The world is finally getting the opportunity today to hear directly from Jay Palmer, the Infosys whistleblower whose lawsuit alleging visa and tax fraud sparked an ongoing U.S. government criminal investigation of Infosys, as Palmer has provided written testimony to a Senate subcommittee that's holding a hearing on immigration reform. The subcommittee is likely to be blown away by that testimony, because Palmer, finally free to speak his mind, is doing just that.


At the request of the office of Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), Palmer submitted his testimony to today's Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees and Border Security, at its hearing on "The Economic Imperative for Enacting Immigration Reform." This is how he introduced himself:

I am currently employed by Infosys as a Principal Consultant in the Enterprise Solutions Practice and have been so employed since August, 2008. In this capacity, I witnessed and received emails, screen-shots and other documents proving that Infosys intentionally violated our visa and tax laws for the purpose of increasing revenues. I filed an internal Whistleblower Complaint that was ignored. In January 2011, with the help of my attorney, Kenny Mendelsohn, I reported these violations and have been cooperating with the State Department, Department of Homeland Security, the Internal Revenue Service, and other agencies in a criminal investigation against Infosys and some of its employees. I am considered a Federal Witness and am afforded protection under this recognition. My cooperation has led to a Grand Jury investigation of Infosys. Due to an ongoing criminal investigation I will purposely not divulge certain facts for obvious reasons.

Palmer encapsulated the underlying visa problem faced by Infosys, and his introduction to it, this way:

From August 2008 until March 2010 my employment at Infosys had been a good experience and I enjoyed much success with my colleagues and customers. Factually speaking, I had been recognized by customers and Infosys management for exceptional work. In March of 2010, as a result of hard work and delivering success at Baker Hughes Oil, an Infosys client, I was invited to India. The work at Baker Hughes Oil implemented technology to assist in preventive measures which could avoid future oils spills such as that in the Gulf of Mexico. Hence the invitation to Infosys headquarters in Bangalore, India for an Enterprise Solutions "Actionize" planning meeting. As a Principal in the company, this was an honor for me and I was the only American invited from my practice. During the meeting one of the topics was the H-1B visa "crisis". During these meetings in India, it was discussed that there was the need to and that there were ways to "creatively" get around these H-1B limitations and processes and to work the system in order to increase profits and the value of Infosys' stock. Much of this was very new to me and I did not fully understand the implications of these decisions at the time. It was made very clear that Infosys was going to continue and increase the use of the B1 visa program to get around the tough restrictions the U. S. had placed on the H-1B program by sending lower level and unskilled Infosys Indians to the U.S. to fulfill the high demand for its customers at a lower cost to Infosys. (Please note that at a time of economic volatility and crisis in the U.S., Infosys stock tripled.) There was no monitoring of the B1 system and it was understood that "no one would ever know." Infosys also decided to flood the consulate with applications in order to get as many approved as possible no matter the level of an individual's skill. This was totally about profit and not hiring Americans for jobs in the U.S. due to higher salary requirements. This was confirmed to me by several current and former HR staff members. Their names have been turned over to federal investigators. It was my understanding that Infosys submitted upwards of over 7,000 applications thinking that if some were approved it would be a win for increased profit margins.

Palmer went on to recount much of the activity that was outlined in his lawsuit against Infosys. I have reported on those allegations extensively, so there is no need to rehash them all here. Suffice it to say that the gist of his testimony can be gleaned from some damning excerpts:

I filed an Internal Whistleblower Complaint in regards to the illegal activities, including B1 Visa Fraud and illegal I-9 activity.




Additionally, an HR manager and I provided [Infosys corporate counsel] Jeff [Friedel] with [information on] thousands of people who had never filed LCA (Labor Condition Application) paperwork to work in different states. I also gave him cases in which Infosys managers were intentionally committing fraud to avoid paying state and local taxes.




An [Infosys] HR manager stated that "it has been a long known problem and we can't do anything, it's just the way we do business and we can't control what they do in India."




I also researched and validated that I had illegal people on projects since August 2008 when I joined Infosys. Additionally, other inside Infosys employees provided me with information of illegal B1 workers at Wal-Mart, Johnson Controls, Goldman Sachs, American Express and other customers.




I think it is important for this Committee to understand the lengths that Infosys has taken to cover up these crimes and to retaliate against me. I am not asking for help from the Committee; that will come through the judicial system. This is important because based on the communications my attorney and I have received there are numerous people with more information of wrongful conduct not just by Infosys but many other companies as well. However, these people have expressed their fears of retaliation if they come forward. Based on the way I have been threatened, harassed and retaliated against, it is easy to understand their concerns.




Infosys has totally alienated me from the company. They will not let me work on a project at a client site, will not let me into an Infosys office, and I cannot participate in company pursuits of business. I sit at home. No one calls me or emails me or will have anything to do with me. This is after they told me I have done nothing wrong and they would protect me. This is the most blatant disregard of a Whistleblower's rights. Infosys has maliciously violated the spirit of the Whistleblower policy and the law. On July 18, 2011, I filed yet another Whistleblower complaint in regards to the continued harassment. I even copied senior management including the CEO and CFO, and have received no response.

Palmer closed his testimony with an appeal for justice:

The abuse of the B1 and H1 visa laws as well as the income tax laws is widespread in this country. Americans are being displaced and foreigners are working full-time jobs in the U.S. without paying income taxes. It is somewhat ironic that as this Subcommittee meets and considers my testimony, our President and Congress are facing very difficult financial debt ceiling decisions. In these difficult times, it is inconceivable that Infosys and other foreign companies are avoiding paying income taxes and abusing visa laws and then laughing and calling those who stand up for what is right "stupid Americans." My real-life experiences have educated me to the point that if Congress decides that an increase of Green Cards or legal work visas in the U.S. is a must, then there should be limitations or ratios. For example, for every H-1B visa issued to a foreign national company, they should have to hire an American worker. Let me ask the committee, what about our economy? What about the years and years of ignoring the laws? These companies maliciously do not hire Americans and look at ways to circumvent policy and law instead of working with it. Look at the stock and growth of these large foreign companies in a down environment -- they are not suffering. However, they are still asking for more "handouts" to increase their margin. Every company is out to make a profit, but when you knowingly defraud the system it is concerning. I have witnessed outsourcing companies bring over H-1B talent that have been trained by American workers and then they replaced the American workers. Does this not violate the spirit of the H-1B laws? The only specialized talent these workers have is they work for a said company and then transfer the work to offshore teams. These are tasks that an existing worker could perform.

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Jul 26, 2011 8:04 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to VM

The DOL is more or less like the FDA. Another problem riddled government "certification body" that is way behind the times and inaccurate in its rulings. Observe how many drugs have gotten on the market with FDA approval that have been pulled later due to fatal side effects that in many cases the pharma companies knew about but hid from public view. There are a lot of similarities here. The companies applying for DOL approval know how to work the system. This is another reason why an example has to be made here.

A copy of Palmer's statement should be emailed to all of Infosys' clients. Though I daresay in many cases they knew exactly what was going on and either collaborated or looked the other way.

If anyone had any doubts about Infosys' "core company values", I think they are now clearly revealed in all their ugly reality. Infosys wants to be a world player but now we know they are racist, criminal and fraudulent to their rotten core.

Jul 26, 2011 8:12 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says:

First, let me just say that as an American I'm genuinely proud of what Jay is doing.  When this is all done, I think he can look himself in the mirror and know that he did what was right.  Hang in there Jay!

One thing often forgotten is that some of the 9/11 terrorists were also on the B-1 visa (approved even after the NSA knew they were terrorists - one arm not talking to the other).  It's unbelievable that after 9/11 we have a visa program that is essentially rubber stamped and according to Infosys "they will never check".  It's exposing our nation to both economic and security risks. 

When Infosys intentionally floods the office with applications, that also increases our security risk.  They could be helping terrorist organizations simply because they are swamping the system.

Jay named some client names.  I wonder if those clients are at risk also, or if this is limited to Infosys.  Obviously some projects could be at risk, but I wonder if there will be any conspiracy charges where people from other companies get caught in the net.

This is probably a game changer.  The worst thing the government could do is give Infosys a slap on the hand.  They have a case handed to them on a silver platter and I expect them to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.  How this unfolds in criminal courts could make a big difference.

I would go further than Jay did (1-1 ratio).  I don't think offshoring firms should be able to import workers.  I would limit them to executive visas.  If they want work done in this country, we can handle it for them.  We did that with Japanese automakers and guess what - Japanese cars are now "more American" than Ford.  We need mutually beneficial trade - not the one sided relationship Infosys and other Indian companies have given us.

Jul 26, 2011 8:18 AM Not_So_Desperate_Nation Not_So_Desperate_Nation  says: in response to Dolores
Our most valuable and most astrictive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only!"

-Mark Twain

"So far as I am able to judge, nothing has been left undone, either by man or nature, to make India the most extraordinary country that the sun visits on his rounds.Nothing seems to have been forgotten, nothing overlooked."

Mark Twain

If I were asked under what sky the human mind has most fully developed some of its choicest gifts, has most deeply pondered on the greatest problems of life, and has found solutions, I should point to India.

- Max Mueller (German scholar)

Whatever sphere of?the?human mind you may select for your special study, whether it be language, or religion, or mythology, or philosophy, whether it be law or customs, primitive art or primitive science, everywhere you have to go to India, whether you like it or not, because some of the most valuable and instructive materials of the history of man are treasured up in India and India only.

- Friedrich Maximilian Mueller ( German philologist )

I also suggest that you read the following book written by a British economist named Angus Maddison:"The World Economy:A Millennial Perspective".In this book, he clearly states, with evidence, that India was the wealthiest country in the world, from when time began, up until (and including) the seventeenth century, when they were invaded by the British Empire.


End Quoted Text -

Jul 26, 2011 8:26 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to R. Lawson

Looking at the potential laundry list of violations of US trade and business laws, I think Infosys should be charged under the RICO Act. They certainly qualify in terms of fraud, threat of causing bodily harm and extortion:

Here's some of what RICO covers

The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, commonly referred to as the RICO Act or simply RICO, is a United States federal law that provides for extended criminal penalties and a civil cause of action for acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization. The RICO Act focuses specifically on racketeering, and it allows for the leaders of a syndicate to be tried for the crimes which they ordered others to do or assisted them, closing a perceived loophole that allowed someone who told a man to, for example, murder, to be exempt from the trial because they did not actually do it.Under RICO, a person who is a member of an enterprise that has committed any two of 35 crimes-27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes-within a 10-year period can be charged with racketeering. Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of "racketeering activity." RICO also permits a private individual harmed by the actions of such an enterprise to file a civil suit; if successful, the individual can collect treble damages.


Jul 26, 2011 8:39 AM Neutral but rational Neutral but rational  says:

Total BS! This is just another tirade against a soft 3rd world country in the name of socialistic job protection paranoia here in USA.

No company can 'exploit' B1 visa. Any one who knows this business knows that too. A guy is here for 4-10 weeks on a B1 visa. What major work can he / she do in a matter of weeks? They are here for knowledge transfer/ scoping/ requirements-gathering exercise for those few weeks. Its anybody's guess how one can draw a water-tight line in that kind of work.

Jul 26, 2011 9:43 AM ctrl alt del ctrl alt del  says: in response to Neutral but rational

"Total BS! This is just another tirade against a soft 3rd world country in the name of socialistic job protection paranoia here in USA."

Hardly. There are laws in the US - you follow them or you get prosecuted. Infosys willingly chose not to follow the law. Now they've probably blown it for the entire industry.

Works for me.

Jul 26, 2011 10:03 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says:

Jay Palmer is a hero. 

Thank You Jay Palmer.

I think if more than a few Congress had any real guts, we wouldn't be in such an economic mess.  The Sell-Out congress and Presidencies have done a lot of damage by allowing companies to use our Visa system to replace qualified hard-working U.S. Citizens.

Indian outsourcing companies do not even try to hire U.S. citizens.  They actively propagandize against U.S. workers. Indeed they make it their goal to use every last Visa to replace U.S. workers.  To train replacements, and move whole departments back to India.

And so DESTROY the U.S. Tax Base.

It's like we are on a submarine, and someone installed screen doors at every port-hole.

Doesn't matter what side of the isle you are on, it is tax-paying workers that keep our government going.

To even think of allowing the B-1 visa to be used as in ILLEGAL tax shelter is truly the mind-set of traitors.

Jul 26, 2011 10:26 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says:

I've watched the committee meeting online.  Fortunately Ron Hira was present.  He did a fantastic job.  Part of Jay Palmer's testimony was read and the entirety submitted into record. 

I hope that Jay will soon be in a position where he can sit on a panel like this one.  I believe he would have a much greater impact if he could speak to the members and answer questions.  I believe that Jay would have been the center of attention, instead of the Microsoft attorney, had he been there.

I think everyone on the panel (including myself - not on the panel) supports a greencard and changes to that aspect of the law.  The real debate should be the conditions such as how many and what factors would grow or reduce numbers and what role corporations should play in it.  Clearly companies like Microsoft will argue that they should have their hands on the levers, and American IT workers will argue that our government is the only party that should have control of the levers.

I believe that we won't be having "comprehensive immigration reform" any time soon but that we should have "comprehensive skilled immigration reform".  We are going to need to have this battle eventually and I think that now is the best time to have it.  I don't want it mixed with the bigger immigration issues because our interests will become political bargaining chips.

Because of the poor economy and high levels of fraud many of our issues will be heard - if the economy was in great shape we would be ignored and industry golden boys would get whatever they want.  Will we get exactly what we want now?  Of course not - that's not how democracy works.  I think we will arrive at something better than what we have today. 

Industry has asked for reforms now and I think we should support them and join their call for reforms.  This fight is going to happen.  Let's help make it happen now.

Jul 26, 2011 10:58 AM SVEngineer SVEngineer  says: in response to Not_So_Desperate_Nation

Really?   I just watch the "Rise and Fall of the British Empire" course by Professor Patrick N. Allit, Ph.D. from the University of California, Berkeley.   In the course, he describes the British experience in India and how the British described their Indian subjects -- the most corrupted people on earth and Calcutta -- one cannot imagine how filfthy it was . . .

By the way, the course is fantastic.     I guessed in 300 years, thing hasn't changed that much.   The national character stays pretty much the same.

Jul 26, 2011 11:14 AM Roger Jacobs Roger Jacobs  says: in response to SVEngineer

Outsourcing is reality that no one (not even Obama) can rollback. American companies derive great profits from outsourcing and will be the first to oppose any curbs on the same.

I believe the American economy is in deep shit coz of the two 'imaginary' wars on terror that they have created and spent trillions in sending two third world countries back to the stone age. No one benefited from it other than the American military industrial complex.

Curbing outsourcing may save a few billion dollars (compare that with the trillions that America has spent on making the world unsafe), but will only affect the high end work that Americans do because of the cost savings that will disappear from all the low end that has been outsourced to developing economies. 

Jul 26, 2011 11:26 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Roger Jacobs

"Outsourcing is reality that no one (not even Obama) can rollback. American companies derive great profits from outsourcing and will be the first to oppose any curbs on the same."

And we have industry leaders like Buffet warning that this isn't sustainable.  The higher unemployment goes, the less relevant corporate interests become.  We either fix this problem, or this is the "new norm" in the United States.

"I believe the American economy is in deep shit coz of the two 'imaginary' wars on terror that they have created and spent trillions in sending two third world countries back to the stone age. No one benefited from it other than the American military industrial complex."

The best thing that happened to Iraq and Afghanistan was our intervention.  Clearly it has benefited them given the billions we've poured into their infrastructure.  I see little benefit for us and agree in principle that we should never have gone.  I disagree that we "sent them back to the stone age".  If the insurgency would stop, they would be in better shape right now compared to before, and they are certainly better off economically than pre-war.  Too bad we aren't.

"Curbing outsourcing may save a few billion dollars (compare that with the trillions that America has spent on making the world unsafe), but will only affect the high end work that Americans do because of the cost savings that will disappear from all the low end that has been outsourced to developing economies. "

"Curbing outsourcing" sounds so protectionist.  What we want is fair trade and to stop cheating in the marketplace.  Fair trade will bring millions of high end, middle, and low end jobs back to the United States.  We aren't just talking service sector jobs - we are talking manufacturing as well.

Jul 26, 2011 11:28 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Roger Jacobs

I am sure America's days of policing the world are at an end. It will be interesting to see how China, the rising star now, decides to handle its new found global dominance. Given their track record, I think they are going to make all of America's critics pine for the days when America was running things.

Food for thought. (Unadulterated, unlike what you buy from China)

Jul 26, 2011 11:37 AM jman jman  says: in response to R. Lawson

So we should ignore this issue of illegal outsourcing because of other mistakes the U.S. has  made?  Don't get that logic at all.  There is not one simple answer to solve American economic woes but should be attacked on from many angles including this one.  It is a double win to help boost domestic employment and increase tax revenue. 

Jul 26, 2011 11:39 AM jman jman  says: in response to ctrl alt del

Me Too   What goes around comes around..  simple but true

Jul 26, 2011 2:51 PM Not_So_Desperate_Nation Not_So_Desperate_Nation  says: in response to SVEngineer

Well, as history has shown often, the powerful empires get to write the history. If the Brits ruled a good part of India up until 1947, who do you think controlled the media and the history books? You obviously saw a version of the truth - the Brit version. I don't deny that India has been and is still corrupt in many ways. But come on! Corruption is universal! What about News Corp. - the shining bastion of Western corporate empire? Its corrupt practices and bribery scandals are rocking the Murdoch family. It exists in the US too, only under the guise of a sophisticated name called 'lobbying'. You can keep an open mind and see the good and bad aspects of every civilization/culture. Or you can keep your head buried in sand like an ostrich.

Jul 26, 2011 3:10 PM BT1024 BT1024  says:

For anyone interested in watching the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on Immigration Reform that took place today, I have listed the link below (go to the site, click the "webcast" button) - As Roy Lawson noted, Ron Hira (RIT Prof. and EPI research associate) testified:



Jul 26, 2011 3:29 PM ctrl alt del ctrl alt del  says: in response to Not_So_Desperate_Nation

Look!! Over there!!

A US corporation isn't on trial here - Infosys is. Corrupt practices rule the roost in India, this is well known.

As I've stated before, the Indian based temp agencies had a golden opportunity to prove to the world market that they are ready for prime time. Short term profits took precedence over ethics and integrity and now it has set them back. On a grand scale.

Shortcuts and back alley shady deals aren't how world class corporations operate because it will eventually catch up with you. Siemens, Boeing, Apple, Sony, etc. could never afford to have this kind of a mess on their hands.

Infosys got greedy and grew too fast. Now they will likely lose everything.

Jul 26, 2011 3:35 PM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says:

I read through the entire testimony provided by Jack Palmer, and it is very damning.

I have been on this issue for 5-6 years, and have had to put up with just about every kind of put down.  That I am some sort of Guildy-thug.  To I am just another ____ ...

We've got it now, in sworn testimony, the Indian Outsourcing companies are defrauding everyone:

- Defrauding U.S. workers with massive libelous character assassination.

- Defrauding the U.S. visa system, using H-1b, L-1 and B-1 visas, while at the same time massively discriminating against U.S. Citizens.  It is a fact, in sworn testimony, InfoSys (and any other Indian Outsourcing company, apparently) U.S. Citizens are barred from competing for a job.

- Defrauding the U.S. tax System, for what looks like hundreds of millions of dollars, by not paying the prevailing wage and not paying any taxes (which are due) on the sub-minimum wage workers that InfoSys brings in to replace hard-working, tax-paying, and qualified U.S. citizens on U.S. job sites.

- Defrauding all of InfoSys's customer, by charging their customers full price (as if InfoSys had hired an American) for these sub-minimum-wage workers, and InfoSys pocketing billions in profits by completely ripping of U.S. companies.

They are acting like a criminal organization, so let them wear the shoe:

InfoSys is a Massive, Criminal Enterprize. 

They are apparently willing to go as far as murder to protect their massive, adulterous profits.

They are committing Gang warfare on U.S. soil.

Jul 26, 2011 3:40 PM BT1024 BT1024  says: in response to BT1024

Oh, hey - Just in case somebody missed the submitted witness testimony links on the previously noted Senate website, they are off to the right...

Anyhow, below is the link to Ron Hira's testimony (.pdf) - definitely worth reading the whole document. I've read many of Ron Hira's other writings, as well as his past testimony and he definitely spells out the problems with our current H-1B, L-1 (etc, and now B-1) visa programs - as well as, He provides great solutions to the problems... With 10+ years of studying our "skilled" worker visa programs, Ron is definitely someone to listen to (to bad our government doesn't listen to him)...


Jul 26, 2011 3:49 PM ctrl alt del ctrl alt del  says: in response to Jake_Leone

The house of cards is about to crash to the ground.

It's about bloody time.

Jul 26, 2011 4:38 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to jman

"So we should ignore this issue of illegal outsourcing because of other mistakes the U.S. has  made? "

My writing must be off today.  That's not what I was suggesting.  To be explicit: no, we should not ignore this issue of illegal outsourcing.

Jul 26, 2011 4:42 PM Vincenzo Vincenzo  says: in response to ctrl alt del

>>The house of cards is about to crash to the ground.

Don't count on it.  Congress is bought and paid for.

Jul 26, 2011 5:11 PM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

An HR manager stated that "it has been a long known problem and we can't do anything, it's just the way we do business and we can't control what they do in India."

Utterly vomit inducing disgusting.

Jul 26, 2011 5:31 PM Indian_tatti Indian_tatti  says:

Plan worked.

Infosys Done.

I warned Shibu (CEO) when Infosys threatened to kill me also.

I am serious here.

I my self Indian but no among those.

I also have all emails with threat and Visa frauds.

hehe... good day, Infosys.


Infosys already recommended for short position in Indian market.

Jul 26, 2011 5:38 PM ctrl alt del ctrl alt del  says: in response to Vincenzo

I really think we've passed the point of marginalizing this. Are the takers truly going to want to be that close when it hits the meltdown point?

Jake has some very good points and it's going to be difficult to deny the con game that these operators have been engaged in.

Jul 26, 2011 5:48 PM Thank You Jay Palmer! Thank You Jay Palmer!  says:

Thank you to a real American hero, Jay Palmer. You give me hope that the country I grew up in still exists, and that we the people is more than a marketing pitch.  Fellow Americans, please fax and phone your Senators today and remind them that it is their fiduciary responsibility to represent  the interests of their electorate - WE THE PEOPLE  - NOT greedy billionaires, corrupt multi-national corporations and foreign PACs.

Let the truth and facts prevail over greed, fraud, and abuse.

Thank you Jay!

Jul 26, 2011 5:50 PM Jobs4US Jobs4US  says: in response to Indian_tatti

Thank you for your courage to speak the truth.

Jul 26, 2011 5:52 PM Mili Mili  says:

Good to see these companies being investigated for fraudulent use of Visa. But I think the government should look at these small consulting firms based in US as well. They are horrendous and cheat people and H1B norms like no-one else. These million , million-dollar companies are big time cheaters - not only do they charge people for filing visa but fake people's resumes!!!! I am surprised no actions has been taken against them yet

Jul 26, 2011 6:07 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Not_So_Desperate_Nation

@Not_So_Desperate_Nation: But the western world did NOT invent slavery and apartheid. Those practices have been found all over the world throughout history, in various forms.

To the credit of the British, they took the right side in the upper cloth controversy. Don't make me explain that again.

Jul 26, 2011 6:17 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to Jake_Leone

It is not just the Indian outsourcing companies that are abusing the visa laws....the likes of IBM, Accenture, Deloitte are also doing it. They have to, or else they can't compete.

Jul 26, 2011 6:34 PM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to hireamerican

So it is a race to the bottom. Ultimately America will be reduced to a nation of service and retail businesses, with no intellectual property or technology based industry.  That will happen in our lifetimes for certain. I hope all the short sighted CEOs who have fewer ethics than Benedict Arnold realize that. Though I doubt they read history.

Jul 26, 2011 6:39 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to SealTeam6

From the time we implemented the guestworker visa programs, to every incremental easing of the controls on their issuance, it's been like ringing a dinner bell for a certain desperate third world nation that outnumbers us 4 to 1. Making the H-1B portable. Allowing the H-1B to be dual-intent. OPT extension. B1 in lieu of H-1B. What did they think was going to happen to American white collar workers? (It's not just IT, we are only the first and so far hardest hit)

Jul 26, 2011 7:08 PM chamat chamat  says:

Nice article but I got this information yesterday itself. No offence meant to anyone. thanks!

Jul 26, 2011 7:24 PM VM VM  says:

One thing I do not understand is that the salary is high for an american worker. Isn't the department of labor and surveys like the OES identify what a H1B worker should be paid. I know several companies that strictly adhere to these norms. If that is the case why are H1B workers or the companies blamed when the problem is else where.

It has to be fixed at the root as any organization works for profit and will utilize measures within legal boundaries to maximise profits.

Jul 26, 2011 7:33 PM Indian_tatti Indian_tatti  says: in response to VM

H1B was supposed to be used in case you can't find any American.

yes, its true, you can't find American in IT now. Indians did it at their best by faking resumes.

Also, If the company Lay Off American worker and Hire H1B thinking that they will make profit, it will never happen as most of them got bank rupt.

If Americans are not working then to whom American Companies will sell their goods? TO whom Insurance will be sold.

Jul 26, 2011 7:38 PM VM VM  says: in response to Indian_tatti

That is not the point. While I agree with you, I still fail to understand the prevailing wages set by the DOL for every LCA certified. If that is less then that is what is driving the salaries down. DOL thinks that the salary advised is a applicable as it has to be. If that is 15% - 25% cheaper than an american worker then there is something wrong else where.

Jul 27, 2011 8:03 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to xyz

You are assuming that Indians have some sort of natural right to cross national borders and compete with American job candidates. They don't. By law, the H-1B is not supposed to put an American worker at a disadvantage, which Hilda Solis reiterated recently. They are not supposed to replace Americans, lower salaries, or damage Americans' workplace conditions. But they have done all that and more.

Jul 27, 2011 8:08 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Not_So_Desperate_Nation

I think what companies like Infosys are doing is has created such a hostile environment that will harm business in the long run. The US is now in the throes of the worst economic downturn in its history. To exploit the visa loopholes knowingly in such a state of chaos is just bad on so many levels social economic and diplomatic. Rather than take the high ground and set a standard that would gain them some degree of respect they are determined to destroy what remaining dignity they have. If they don't realize now where this is headed, well then...

And news like this doesn't help the case for Indian companies either:

Indian call centre workers told Australians are racist, alcoholic and backward Andrew Marantz, a freelance American writer, spent three weeks in an Indian call centre earlier this year, where he discovered that attitudes towards Australians were particularly harsh.During his training, a senior employee named Lekha, told staff joining the company that Australia was populated by dimwits.


Jul 27, 2011 8:12 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to xyz

Indians need to fix their problems at home, and stop engaging in escapist behavior that benefits mostly themselves and their tight circles of the few people they really care about. Foreign students here have a patriotic duty to return home and use their educations to help their own nations. When India is fixed up, their career tourism will be easier for the world to bear.

Jul 27, 2011 8:58 AM who knows who knows  says: in response to Dolores

It will be good for everyone to avoid talking about each countries. It has nothing to do with a person/group, there will be several good people from worst country.

Work visa doesn't discriminate based on your country of origin so stop weeing about country. As long as work visa doesn't not require to fix their country of origin there is no use of talking about that here.

If someone can't bear people came here on work visa it is the individual person's attitude problem that doesn't going to solve or help in solving any issues associated with work visa.

Jul 27, 2011 9:08 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to who knows

I can't help but notice that of all the people who want to come work and live in America, very few people want to join our military and serve. Freedom isn't free. Their attitude doesn't go over well with American families who typically have many military veterans, some resting in our national cemeteries. Instead, we hear Indians whining about how we are undeserving of this country, without counting the cost paid to make it the great place to live that it is. Americans are also among the world's most generous contributors to charities, and when we see people leave behind a nation like India, that needs so much help, that attitude disgusts many of us. There should have been a thousand Indian Mother Teresas in every century. Americans are charitable, spiritual, and patriotic and we don't get along well with people who lack one or more of these.

Jul 27, 2011 9:14 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to who knows

You re wrong.

The discrimination starts when you have apply for the visa!! If no discrimination, then why even a visa?

OK...I will tell you the reason for the visa...The visa is to ensure that US laws are being followed. The Indian H1bs have shown time and again that they brazenly break the law. It all starts with the FAKE RESUME :P

Yes, we cannot bear people breaking the law to get jobs in the US. We do not want to become India!!! Get it ????

Jul 27, 2011 9:18 AM who knows who knows  says: in response to Dolores

You want to have H1b under companies control without having option to Port ?

Do you know why the option of portable came into law, its because too much control on the lever by corporate(s) gets no benefit to work visa holder and to the country. The moment portability is there employees get freedom of moving into better job (with higher position or salary) which improves the median salary (of that field).

On one hand you are saying H1b's are reducing the salary of US citizens on the other than you want them to have no choice but single employer who have full control on the work visa. Could be please enlighten us why you would contradict your own views ?

This hearing is to remove the country cap on Green Card process which is one of the limitation current H1b's face. Once they have GC they are no more dependent on single employer (porting GC is not a great option).

There is no benefit of having country limit on employment based green card unless there is country limit on H1b.

Jul 27, 2011 9:21 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to who knows

They should not have gotten as far as the queue for the green card. The original intent of the H-1B was not as an immigration visa. That feature needs to be removed, along with drastically lowering the cap, dramatically raising the fees (yes, even more), and generally restricting it to true geniuses who really have skills we don't have.

Jul 27, 2011 9:24 AM xyz xyz  says: in response to Dolores

Outsource your military and there will bunch of Indians ready to serve military.  :P

On a serious note, it is rightly not allowed to serve US military that way. Same way there are different class of people who never want to do the other job. As you mentioned before, just because on WW days your family was allowed to fly from Germany and start fighting against them - it may not apply in current scenario.

I think statistically people here in H1 etc are most well behaved law abiding people and even US government knows that. All you can do is compare worst possible examples/cases from India with best of American examples/cases.

It is highly your personal opinion what you mentioned in last few lines. I personally never saw even Americans feel that way. You are different than your fellow Americans. You keep finding worst possible elements from India everytime. I'm not going to repeat that argument by finding bad news about US.

Jul 27, 2011 9:29 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to xyz

No, they are just being polite to you. On the job, they're scared of being labeled as racists or troublemakers, so they keep quiet. In their personal lives, it's just trouble to start up with you guys, so they keep it to themselves. But when you guys aren't around, hoo boy, is there talk!I'm being VERY polite compared to what gets said about Indians on Main Street America these days. Ten years ago, most people didn't know what was going on, now they do.

Jul 27, 2011 10:11 AM iPhone_rocks iPhone_rocks  says: in response to Dolores

I agree with all your points on Infosys and its visa malpractices. Infosys is in the wrong sider here and they should face the law. However, What I don't understand is that the Americans animosity towards Indians.

Indians are not the only one who take Americans jobs. Have you not seen the same amount of Chinese (if not more) coming to US through H1B and taking the Americans jobs? As far as I know, the significant amount of Indians have left US or have intentions (including myself) to go back home. Whereas, Chinese folks, who come to US on any type of visa (B1, H1 or whatever), they have no intentions to go back to their country. How did we forget about them in this discussion? May be, should we  disguise ourselves by coloring our skin?

Jul 27, 2011 10:23 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to iPhone_rocks

This is nonsense. Of course we object to the loss of jobs to China too. It's just that if we are talking about Infosys, we aren't talking about the Chinese, are we?

Jul 27, 2011 10:30 AM Not_So_Desperate_Nation Not_So_Desperate_Nation  says: in response to Dolores

I have NEVER faced the situation you are referring to ... all Americans I know of (at work and in personal life) are awesome people - the 'live and let live' kind. They are generous, street smart, creative, quite intelligent, hard working, and accomodating people. May be your experience is an exception and just not the norm!!! You should read the following wsj article. It highlights the problems felt in the general (not just Tech) American employment market over the past decade.


Jul 27, 2011 11:26 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Not_So_Desperate_Nation

With the times we are in and the way things are heading, you may be in for a surprise.

Jul 27, 2011 11:40 AM iPhone_rocks iPhone_rocks  says: in response to Dolores

You have good points on Infosys and other companies that are abusing the system. Please stay on the topic and go after them. It does not make any sense attacking Indians and their culture for Infosys's misdeeds.

If you are really bitter about Indians, please just stop using zeros in your life. That'll show them.

Jul 27, 2011 1:40 PM Vincenzo Vincenzo  says: in response to Vincenzo

@ctrl-alt-del - as far as Infosys goes, I agree with you.  That house of cards is going to come down.  However, in terms of the H-1B in general and all of the other corporations who abuse it - nothing will change.  Infosys going down will change nothing.  Now, if Tata, Wipro, IBM, Accenture, et.al. all go down as well, then maybe we'll have some hope.

Jul 27, 2011 2:16 PM Su Su  says: in response to Dolores

You are again assuming that all H1s have no life outside work and they don't mingle outside work. That is some basic bias you have - I was not telling about that. Yes in work all such elements hate them apart from their management and higher. So do you think those elements only represent america and their manager, director, VP, SVP - they are not Americans.

May be you don't have a circle outside those elements so you don't know much about main street america. Really it is your problem - have a counselling or something. At the end you'll be the one with too much mental pressure if you get so hyper.

Jul 27, 2011 5:07 PM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says: in response to Mili

The Neufeld memo was a powerful move to quash these body-shops. That is one of the reasons that H-1B usage has fallen. Look it up.

Jul 27, 2011 5:12 PM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says:

Are you actually trying to get Delores to not be a racist? Good luck!

Jul 27, 2011 5:39 PM Its just the way we do business Its just the way we do business  says:

Narayana Murthy Centre of Excellence course offerings 2011/2012:

US Visa regulations 101: Know the loopholes

Bribery and circumvention 102: Getting around pesky laws and regulations

Resume writing 110: Collecting valid resumes and editing

Communications 112: Creating effective confusion and chaos to extend contracts

Offboarding 201: Targeting American workers for dismissal

Onboarding 212: Ensuring American workers are invalidated and excluded

Jul 27, 2011 5:45 PM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says:

Also, Delores is one of the milder racists in this mix. You ought to realize that as you wade through the other comments.

Your head-in-the-hand metaphor extends well to a lot of these people. For them, H-1B and India have become synonymous. India and evil have also become synonymous.

The more you expand your mind, the less your life is dictated by "universal truths". Contrariwise, the more narrow you are, the more your life can run on a set of tenets.

Jul 27, 2011 5:49 PM Wakjob Wakjob  says:

India was never the richest country in the world. That is a lie taught in Indian schools so the people don't learn that they are poor because their corrupt gov't wasted 50 years on failed communism. If the people learn that they might overthrow the gov't or revolt. Better to make British the scapegoat and make an external enemy. In this way the Indian gov't gives its people the justification to come and rob America. India has never invented anything (maybe chess perhaps). India didn't even have transoceanic ship technology so they could'nt make it to America whereas Eurpoeans could. India has been around 5000 years presumably. Why no ships that can cross the ocean. If you are all so brilliant and were wealthy you should have been able to get to America long before Europeans. But you didn't. India has always been poor. Read some of the Brit books from 200 years ago and see how they tried to help and civilize India but India refused. Now India blames the west for its poverty and is on a mission to suck as much wealth out of the west as possible. America is being plundered by an army of 10 million Indians here in the US robbing us. That is the real reason for all this economic nightmares and why the US gov't has to keep printing billions more to make up for all the $ India is heisting from USA.

""So far as I am able to judge, nothing has been left undone, either by man or nature, to make India the most extraordinary country that the sun visits on his rounds. Nothing seems to have been forgotten, nothing overlooked."

Mark Twain"

Mark Twain obiosuly forgot cars, planes, space travel, moon landings, space shuttles, space stations, TV, radio, PCs, Internet, software, operating systems, modern medicine, and just about everything else.

You can quote all you want but can you actually name anything that came out of India? Where is the Indian operating system? Where are any major apps out of India anyone uses? Any computer companies there anyone has heard of?

The fact is, the west developed all the modern stuff we all enjoy. Without the west the whole world would still be living like India does today - taking a dump in the open and trying to figure out indoor plumbing.

It is a well know fact that the cradle of civilization is Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq. The Christian Europeans brought civilization to the whole world. You don't see any figures on the outside of Christian churches having sex and Europe is not known for the filthy Kama Sutra. Sorry India, you are perverse and sick, not civilized.

Jul 27, 2011 6:02 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Indian_H1B

Calling people racist because they disagree with you is childish. Calling people racist because they want the emphasis to be on getting our own displaced citizens back to work instead of just importing foreign workers like there was no tomorrow is childish. Calling people racist because they point out known facts is childish. The job loss crisis is now front page news and you can bet that the wisdom of global labor arbitrage is in for a new round of scrutiny. Playing the race card every chance you get won't prevent that. The damage is now too great.

Jul 27, 2011 6:04 PM ctrl alt del ctrl alt del  says:

"In its response, Infosys today said that Jay Palmer's commentary to the Senate was full of exaggerations and falsehoods."

You would think they would finally admit they have made mistakes at this point but it appears everything is still in full denial mode. It's all going to come out in the end. Why would someone submit sworn testimony that could be proven wrong? The evidence exists on his laptop and the acknowledgement the same by others?

Jul 27, 2011 6:06 PM ctrl alt del ctrl alt del  says: in response to Dolores

But you're only a Mild Racist  ; )

Jul 27, 2011 6:08 PM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

I was wondering when Infosys would start its attacks on Palmer. Right on cue. I think in their wildest nightmares they never expected Palmer's expose to get as far as it has.

On a side note (I think someone else pointed this out earlier) Narayana Murthy used to be on the board of directors of NDTV.  I wouldn't expect much by way of impartiality from them.

Jul 27, 2011 6:12 PM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Dolores

It is funny being called "racist" by people who seem to have no problem with the racial breakdown of employees that companies like Infosys have in their US operations. Oh yeah I guess you can only be racist if you aren't Indian.

Jul 27, 2011 6:13 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says:

"But if you recollect, slavery and apartheid were a western creation and the minorities subjected to these evil practices had to wage a war for several decades before getting freed from it. "

Slavery has existed for thousands of years and on all continents - including Asia and Southeast Asia.  It began prior to our earliest written records, and was well documented as early as 500 BC. 

Slavery was discussed in the Bible, the Koran, and Hinduism is responsible for the Caste system (untouchables) and legalized it at least according to religious doctrine if not legally.  Religion and law were one in the same in many cultures, and if not the same it had influence on the law.

Modern man evolved over the last 200,000 to 500,000 years.  I would venture a bet that 100,000 years ago on the plains of Africa where (isolated) civilizations were forming there were slaves - probably captured in battle between the various groups.  Technically, we are all of African descent - doesn't matter what color your skin is.  That's where our earliest known ancestors are from.

Too bad so much of our human history was burned at the Library of Alexandria and in other burnings to root out "heresy".  Alexandria was burned in war and not for religious reasons, but at the end of the day it was more knowledge gone.  It wasn't the first time militarism set mankind back, and it certainly isn't the last.

Since we only have written record for a few thousand years the full story of mankind is a real mystery.  India has a treasure trove of ancient artifacts and texts that give us a peek into that past.

Jul 27, 2011 6:19 PM X X  says: in response to Indian_H1B

I wont describe Dolores as racist (not that she is looking for my reco), whenever someone raises America's past, she raises the caste system (please correct me if I am wrong Dolores or do you hate Indians anyway and try to show us down by using the caste system). The reference to "upper body cloth" or whatever is quite fun. There was also a reference to Kshatriyas as lower castes somewhere - very illuminating. Google does have its uses I must say.

Jul 27, 2011 6:27 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to ctrl alt del

What do you expect Infosys to do ? Just accept all the wrong doings...corporate(s) are not that sane yet.....no way.

Any attorney would say "Never admit any wrong doings" ...so that I can try the case for better out come...may be Infosys will try Casey Anthony's attorney.

Even my insurance card says it "Never speak with the person who you had accident and never admit it is your fault...just keep silent and that is your right."

Jul 27, 2011 6:44 PM X X  says:

On the present state of caste system in India..a link...the context is that close to 50% of seats in universities (govt and private) and 50% of jobs in public sector are reserved for the various "backward" castes. There is actually a race these days with more and more castes trying to get themselves classified as "backward". I suggest everyone leave the caste debate out of this forum since it is a very complex phenomenon with historical context which is changing shape as the country grows.


Jul 27, 2011 6:47 PM ctrl alt del ctrl alt del  says: in response to who knows

They are accusing Jay of exaggerations. The evidence will likely show otherwise - again, why would Jay inflate his story beyond the evidence that has been seized by the Federal Government? Where is the benefit? And lie in sworn testimony? To cast Infoscam in a bad light? The story is already in the headlines, it's got plenty of momentum on it's own.

Okay don't admit you've done anything wrong, but publicly stating his statement is dishonest is not doing anything to help their side of the case. It's going to come out.

Jul 27, 2011 6:58 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to X

I would feel better about leaving out the caste issue if Indians would quit bringing up apartheid (that's South Africa, we had Jim Crow), slavery (everywhere), and "exterminating the red Indians." India also has indigenous tribal groups just like America, who were pushed aside to remote areas and marginalized, and this has been going on for a lot longer than in America. I can't see where they have any business slinging mud at us. I have encountered high caste Indians here and received their scorn, even though my family history in IT is two more generations than theirs. My family has been getting college degrees since the 1920s, and graduate degrees since the 1950s, yet I have been constantly called uneducated and "trailer trash" by Indians online simply because I oppose global labor arbitrage and want to see my own countrymen back to work in their own nation. They have no idea how the average American has come to feel about them.

Jul 27, 2011 7:06 PM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to ctrl alt del

It's not just Jay that has the evidence, there are 100s of IT workers that have hard evidence not just on Infosys, but every outsourcer out there.

If the powers that be have the time and inclination to review the evidence, you will see people lining up to present the evidence they have.

Jul 27, 2011 7:20 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to SealTeam6

The CEOs know exactly what they are doing. It is survival of the fittest.

They know how to get your money, and screw you.

The only way to screw them back is to not endorse their products. But alas, that is not gonna happen since we cannot live without drinking beer,eating at restaurants, our favorite deodorants,our SPA treatments, Iphone apps,the list goes on.....

Jul 27, 2011 7:26 PM xyz xyz  says: in response to Dolores

This is exactly upper cast in India said in the past. My grandfather did that, dad did that, so you lower cast better shut up and don't dare to compare or compete with me. I need protection from system... and then they started to create that system and protect that.

US is relatively new civilization so they won't have any bad things on record from dark ages - that doesn't mean same elements are missing from society. The good thing is - "the system" at least not advocating for that even if some group from bottom of their hearts want to change system in certain fashion. Stopping fraud, creating american jobs etc is one thing and what that group wants is totally separate thing.

Jul 27, 2011 7:30 PM Great American Great American  says: in response to ctrl alt del

Not only Visa frauds... American citizens and GC holders are removed from their jobs in many different ways..... here is one example.

There are around 50,000 students who are coming to US from India for higher studies every year. 99% of them land in some average universities in USA. 60% of them don't even go to classes regularly (they start working in gas stations immediately) but manage to get MS degree.

Once they get their degree (and some of them even without getting degree, they just use fake name and fake identity to get into the employment) they get work permit. The movement they get their work, they float a resume with about 8 years of experience (resume changes as per the requirements of the job) and replace an American citizen who has genuine 4-5 years of experience. Once they start working, there will be some Indian in the company who will help them and some times they also pay money to those Indians who are already working there, to learn about the job. The same thing is happening with H1b people too. The HR of company looks (some times) for the status of visa, but won't do background check on their previous employment. Most of them manage the previous employment with fake employer verification calls.

The simple solutions are:

1.if the HR of the recruiting company asks for the W2's of these contract workers, 99% of these contractors will not be able to support their experience. 2. A strict gov regulation should be there to not to allow these students to file their H1 petition and they should be immediately deported if found guilty.

3. H1B people resumes should be cross verified with the resumes that are submitted to USCIS. If found guilty, their visa should be cancelled and they should be deported back to India.

Jul 27, 2011 7:33 PM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to ctrl alt del

Usually a company under federal investigation keeps quiet till after the case is decided. It is odd how Infosys shoots its mouth off to the media. And not just in a diplomatic fashion by saying "We will present our case in court" or something to that effect. Instead a multi-billion $ company goes after one guy via one their own media outlets. Wow ! Way to build up your already busted public persona. They need to be burned and good.

Jul 27, 2011 7:48 PM Not_So_Desperate_Nation Not_So_Desperate_Nation  says: in response to Indian_H1B

Yes, I have become alert to that fact now ... it seems the only 'objective' non-Indian voices on this board comes from: R.Lawson and SealTeam6. They make cogent and logical arguments. Got to give them that ... everyone else resorts to name-calling, veiled threats, or extra-polating the behavior of a few thousands on visas to a Billion plus population.

Jul 28, 2011 10:54 AM sam sam  says:

You know nothing about USA..I am a us citizen of Indian orgin..when i was working for chrysller, syntel was one of the sub contractors for the project and i was an employee of syntel. They brought a girl from india on B1 visa and worked along side myself in doing coding and business support..and she is paid indian salary with an allowance of $30/day..so i end up droping her after the work...It is time we send back and cancel all the H1/L1/B1 visa and send all these cheap folks home. CUDOS to Jack Palmer , i will send  more details about my expereince to you..

jack Palmer, i will send all these information about the visa abuse happended to your attorney..Let us US citizens Send all these H1/L1/B1 Visa holder's home until our economy improves

Jul 28, 2011 3:54 PM Proud_Indian Proud_Indian  says: in response to Wakjob


Just as your alias indicates, you really are probably a 'wack job'. Either you are a filthy paki or you may be another traditional enemy of all things Indian.  You are delusional, to say the least. You want to know the reason why the Indians back in the old days did not attempt to search out new lands? Because we had everything we needed in our land itself at that time, bozo !!! We were contented people and did not aspire for 'material' stuff. And what piece of garbage are you spewing? America is being plundered by 10 million Indians which is the reason for the current economic nightmare? Go to a mental asylum and get your mind cleansed. You don't even seem to possess a basic understanding of economics or finance theory. Attributing the current global economic recession to Indians? Wow, what a genius

Yeah, you don't see figures on the outside of churches ... but wait, most of the pastors are pedophiles and the Vatican is so embarassed to even acknowledge the problems. And as far as the Kamasutra is concerned ... the most following of this ancient text is from perverted western folks.

Jul 28, 2011 4:10 PM Frank M Frank M  says: in response to R. Lawson

Typical American dumb response...Infosys might be helping terrorists...LOL...tell me how does this sound-

"American corporations like McDonalds, KFC, Coca-Cola are flooding Indian markets with their poisonous, junk food. This is a sinister campaign of America to dismantle India by making its huge population unhealthy and unproductive"...

well how does this sound....Dumb right? That's exactly how you sound...DUMB...

The fact that you had the time to write a comment as long as the blog itself shows that you are a lazy bum...maybe a couch potato..constantly on the internet because of lack of real friends...and as long as there are people like you...Indians and Chinese will get jobs in America....

Go to the street and work...that's the only way to save yourself...LOL..

Jul 28, 2011 4:13 PM Frank M Frank M  says: in response to Indian_tatti

If the information that you provide about yourself is true then I am ashamed of you....but i shouldn't be surprised...

Your real character is reflected in your displayed name...Indian 'Tatti'...lol...

For all who don't know...'tatti in Hindi means...Shit....

And that's what you are full of shit....

Jul 28, 2011 4:18 PM Frank M Frank M  says: in response to Dolores

Tch Tch..Dolores....oh you poor soul! Were you deprived of education...did culture never visit you.....look at your poor thoughts 'Third World Nation...4:1'....Alas what can i say....India maybe poorer than US...outnumber population by 4:1...but the might of America, its education and its culture couldn't help poor Dolores to think and talk sensibly....perhaps you would want to visit India and take some world class education here.....

Jul 28, 2011 4:23 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Frank M

Typical Indian response: crank out the personal insults when someone won't bow. This is how lower caste people still get treated over there. Do we want this culture to become the norm here? America, read and decide.

Jul 28, 2011 4:25 PM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Frank M

Oh my....the Infosys PR machine on over drive :

Indians don't need anyone to dismantle them. They do an awesome job of it all by themselves.

Jul 28, 2011 4:29 PM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Proud_Indian

Oh yeah...then continue to not search of other lands. Stay in India. Why bother with H1b visas and the wrath of unemployed Americans you are displacing :P

Jul 28, 2011 4:31 PM Frank M Frank M  says: in response to Wakjob

WakJob....what happened dude....were your parents always fighting....were u a victim of child abuse....Filthy Kamasutra..did you say...?? We just wrote a book to explain and educate people on sex....the world endorsed it....in fact the American Porn industry is the biggest in the world...

Proud_Indian went all out to help you by suggesting some corrective measures like going to mental asylum etc....but hey I will tell you a secret...your thoughts are so filthy and so sick..that try as you may..they wouldn't help you in this lifetime...so go ahead..pick up the gun and shoot yourself...save yourself dude...

God has done injustice to you...he created a soul but no thoughts...oh your mind...so corrupt...beyond repair.....Blow it out....go DIE and ask God...why Father why this injustice to me...maybe the Lord will have mercy on you and make you a better human....


Jul 29, 2011 8:33 AM Satya Satya  says: in response to Don Tennant


I apologize if I misunderstood your article.

In the article you had below two lines that let to my (mis)understanding.

"today to hear directly from Jay Palmer" - (Hear directly from Jay Palmer. He did not speak at the hearing neither was his Written testimony read out. So nobody really heard his testomony at the hearing. His testimony is not even listed in the webiste as one of the 8 witnesses' testimony. So nobody knows for a fact if his testimony is actually considred in this hearing - atleat behind the scenes).

"Palmer submitted his testimony to today's Senate Judiciary Subcommittee" - (Same as above.. nowhere during the hearing or in the website his testimony is listed. You may have some inside information on non-public testimonies and thanks for making it public. People should know about this kind of fraud and help make USA a better place)

Once again, main gist of my comment was to provide my thoughts and not to make any personal attacks. I apologize if I offended you in any way. If possible please remove first few lines and request you to leave my comments on the issue if you think they are sensible).



Jul 29, 2011 8:58 AM Legal_immigrant Legal_immigrant  says:

So when we talk about immigration, folks immediately make the debate solely about bashing illegal/undocumented and say no amnesty, illegal immigration etc etc. When someone says - lets talk about legal immigration for people who waited for years, we start bashing everyone, who is here legally ,putting them under the IT/H1B umbrella. There is no end to it..is there?? This testimony was about green cards to high skilled folks who have been here for more than a decade. But of course Mr.Grassley found a way to convert it into a anti-immigrant tirade.

There are flaws in the h1b system and let infosys and everyone else who is defrauding the system be punished and penalized for it.

Legal immigration is not ONLY about IT or h1B. If folks here forcibly want to me make it that and spread the hate, go ahead and make yourselves look silly.

And lets stop this " I hate you so go away from my country back to where you came from" crap. This is MY country too. Yes I came to the US on a student visa and got my Masters degree under a wonderful American Professor, worked in American companies (Non-IT) under American managers and have met only wonderful people in the past 10 years who never showed this kind of hatred. It has been the complete opposite. Even though I am still waiting for my skill based green card (which I will eventually get), when you live in a country and have been welcomed by its universities, industry, colleagues and neighbors over a period of 10 years, that country becomes your home. Same is the case with me.. I feel every bit American as someone who was born here and dont need a lecture on what I should do or where I should go. I might have to wait for 5 more years in queue to get that green card ..none of this rudeness is going to change the eventual result. All I am asking is that the ridiculous bureaucratic wait times be reduced if possible. And there are nice, reasonable people who agree. I am just glad and thankful that my friends, colleagues - who are US citizens like some of you - agree with me and do not understand the hatred and uncouthness shown by some of the commenters on this article.

So stop sterotyping everyone under the infosys/IT/H1b umbrella. There are thousands of foreign folks who studied in good US universities who want to make a living here. Don't spread hate against one and all who do not look like how you want them to look like.

Jul 29, 2011 9:06 AM Frustrated Frustrated  says:

The H1B system has a genuine set of problems due to a few rotten apples. But the USCIS has become strict over the past couple of years and efforts of lawmakers such as Grassley have been justified to some extent. But then why does every debate on legal immigration and permanent residence have to be associated with H1B? Thousands of foreign students who come to the uS to study also end up working in H1B..it is a misconception that h1B is only IT. For the past 3 years, the advanced degree quota has been filling up quicker than the regular quota since several loopholes and fraudulent activities have been exposed vis-a-vis IT consultants . Extreme rhetorical comments, of the type seen here, seem to indicate that even genuine applicants should be sent packing with the few rotten apples. Which does not make any sense! Punish the offenders but reward the thousands who are genuine and have followed the law (and who are DEFINITELY in MAJORITY) Even immigration-control advocates like Ron Hira have ended their testimonies with statements that the permanent high-skilled immigration situation has to be fixed/improved. So why can't we separate the issues and resolve both instead of abusing everyone who has come to work in the US from a foreign country. The whole concept of "immigrant-reduction" is a failed one, the sooner we see through the hatred and rhetoric, the better.

Jul 29, 2011 9:11 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Satya

In common parlance, "to hear from someone" clearly doesn't necessarily mean to hear that person's voice. If you say you haven't heard from someone in a long time, what you mean is that you haven't had any communication from that person, not that you haven't heard his voice. In the context of this post, I believe that was very clear. We finally heard directly from Palmer, not through his attorney.

The only witnesses listed on the website are the ones who were present at the hearing. Other people were invited to testify in writing-Jay Palmer and Gene Nelson are two that I'm aware of. Sen. Grassley referred to Palmer's testimony in his opening statement at the hearing. Go to the link you posted, click the Webcast button, and go to min 38:45. Hopefully that will convince you that Palmer's testimony was real, and that it was really a part of the hearing.

Jul 29, 2011 10:12 AM SVEngineer SVEngineer  says: in response to iPhone_rocks

"However, What I don't understand is that the Americans animosity towards Indians."

Indians get more than half of the H-1Bs.    Chinese only gets 9%.      At most IT companies, there are a whole lot more Indians than Chinese. 

Jul 29, 2011 10:16 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Satya

part of it was read aloud by Grassley, I know cuz I was there.

Jul 29, 2011 10:21 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Frustrated

It is not a few rotten apples...it is the other way around. There are some good apples, and the majority are scum.

Jul 29, 2011 4:46 PM wackJobis Half-right wackJobis Half-right  says: in response to Wakjob

The reason why INDIANS never crossed the sea --is due to ancient HINDU belief

Which says that --Crossing the River and Moving to Other Lands is a Sin ...This was Mentioned in Sama Veda...

Due to that Most Indians are now--proverbial Frogs in a well..

They barely can comprehend how European civilization was built.

Most of them are deluded with Hatred towards Pakistan ,Muslims, and British...

Winston churchill Quotes--

-" INDIA is a nation Formed with False history and Hatred towards its Neighbours,and Colonizers"

He is 1000% True , Most INDIANS were never civilized-If you Look at So called  " INDUS Valley Civilization"--You will see that it had Never stretched into The Geographicall INDIA(HINDUSTAN)...

INDUS Civilizations has strong foothold in Pakistan,Afghanistan,Southern IRAN---and Border Villages of Maharastra,Punjab,Gujrath (Only 3 INDIAN states)

If there is any historical revisionism---the History of INDIA needs to Revised...

INDIA Never had any Civilization,let along wealth...

The Aryans were Exactly The Colonizers from Southern IRAN --who gave  the People of INDIA the Vedas...

Most of the Vedas were copycat texts from ZENDAVESTA----A Zorastrain Book...

Most INDIANS today share  their Y-Chromosome with Beduins in Egypt and Iraq...

beduins are Tribal people---who are known from the babylonian Times as SEX traffickers...

Most of the Dravidian People in INDIA share their DNA and heritage with Babylonian  Customs..

It was believed that The Current day INDIANS were actually the people from ---SODOM and GOMORRAH...

you can Find this astonishing evidence from the ---SEXUAL Potryal of Many HINDU Gods on Temple..

SEX is an Integral part in SODOM and GOMORRAH---and the people who migrated from those places. Followed the same customs and settled across the River SINDH..

later people Living across SINDH region were Called SINDHU_--by persians

The Word SINDHU--later Changed into HINDU...and the people who were Liberated from british Rule Formed a country --named HINDUSTAN..

British Viceroy Mountbattennamed the country as INDIA-While Paskian and  Afghnistan Tribes have Disagreed in UN council Upon the Name

INDIA as It comes from River INDUS or SINDHU Riverwhich doesn't even Flow IN INDIA...

The whole historical Legacy of INDIA is a Fake..

Bhaskara,Aryabhattawere Immigrants from Souhtern IRAN to SINDHU region-these people proposed Mathematics which many INDIANS today claim as theirs...

Bhaskara,Aryabhatta,kautilya and Many others share a Genetic Lineage with People living in South Of Todays IRAN...

Jul 29, 2011 5:04 PM INDIANS are Most racist INDIANS are Most racist  says: in response to Dolores

Most of us are not even aware of Racism---The Racism and Slave trade is justified in INDIAN ancient Books

MANUSMIRITI-an INDIAN Book Preaches a Philosophynamed

VARNA VYAVASTHA(sanskrit)---A color based Society in English..

It says that People with Darker Skin Complexion are Born due to their EVIL karma in their earlier Lifes..

and That EVIL karma manifests itself by their SKIN Tone----so the Lighter your skin tone ,the pure you are...

A great INDIAN Philosoper Joshua (converted to christianity)Earlier used to be called as "Jogarayulu"which is a name of DALIT...

He said that.---

Every INDIAN Wakes up in Morning and Drinks Buffalo Milk, but He worships COW.

COW is Considered as Pure and Worshippable Because its "WHITE ANIMAL"..

While Buffalo even tough it  gives you Milk-is Not worthy of Worshipbecause its BLACK ANIMAL..

Just Like a Buffalo which Feeds People-A DALIT Toils hard in his Life but considered as Unworthy-because ?---He is BLACK...

And most amusing thing is that the BRAHMIN indians who migrated to USA  in Early 90s are Now calling Americans RACISTS....

AMERICANS need to teach These INDIANS--about their OWN RACIAL PAST which has Depraved 800 Million people from basic Life..

a DALIT was Not allowed to DRINK the water from same River where a WHITE SKIN TONE BRAHMIN drinks..

A DALIT must never walk in the same street..

A DALIT must never LOOK Up to BRAHMIN

A DALIT must never ask Extra Compensation for his work

A Dalit must Only Take the Grain which BRAHMIN Allocates him, Even tough DALIT Ploughs the FARM--he has No authority to Question BRAHMIN..

A Dalit must not worship the same God that BRAHMIN worships--for he is Disliked by the GOD and was Rewarded with DARK SKIN...

I can Go on and ON with Verses in MANUSMITI....1200 Pages are Dedicated to TREATMENT of DALITS---

1200 Pages manuscript SHOWS --the LIFE of ---LIGHTER SKIN TONE people in The Geographical Location which we now call INDIA ...

I feel AMERICAN SCHOOLS need to to teach  This BOOK---    

Jul 29, 2011 5:48 PM Stop_False_Propaganda Stop_False_Propaganda  says:

To: Very_Desperate_Nation, INDIANS are Most racist, and wackJobis Half-right.

You clearly are a paki (or a hindu-hating muslim) and probably are all one and the same individual. Go take your copy and paste false propaganda elsewhere, you bloviating piece of crap.

Jul 29, 2011 7:35 PM Satya Satya  says:

FYI: Jay Palmer did not testify at the hearing. Whoever wrote this article does not have his/her facts right.

See: judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=3d9031b47812de2592c3baeba62beeb0

Having said that - Jay Palmer's report above is very relevant in the current economic situation that USA faces and should definately be considered by the agencies/senate members that are working on any kind of Immigration reform.

My take on this:

VISA and TAX fraud by these companies should be scrutinzed and they should be penalized/punished if proved.

It is in everybody's interest if loopholes in the system are fixed so that these companies cannot exploit the system. Continous monitoring/enforcement by the agencies is needed on this regard.

Should America banish the H1B/Legal Immigration(Green Card)? No

In my honest opinion in the current Global world, USA cannot afford to shut foriegn workers/Legal immigration. The only country that will suffer as a result is USA. Having said that, these programs should be regulated/controlled in such a way that it benefits USA and not foriegn companies to make huge profits. USA should allow legal immigration in the areas that badly need workers in USA. Exampes: Health care, Scientists, High Skilled IT etc. Note that I have included High Skilled IT (this is not any average H1B skilled worker, I am talking about Principal Architects who have the capabilities like Alex Kipman (inventor of Kinect for Xbox, Steve Jobs (Apple Ipod/iphone - I know he is not an immigrant but i am talking about skills here).

Unfortunately for US, over the last 2 decates students somehow are not choosing Technical Education (so called STEM cateogories). These categories of education has enabled USA to be the superpower in the world. Now many european and Asian countries are catching up (upward movement) although USA is still at the top, that spot will be lost to some other fast growing country if we do not invest in our youth in education. As Brad Smith (Mircosoft representative in the hearing) said, it is a long process and will not happen overnight. Meanwhile, USA for its own growth will need H1Bs and Legal Immigration (Green cards) programs ofcourse in a controlled manner.

I do know that these VISA programs have been exploited by select few but that does not mean the entire program is trash. The intention of the program is good but execution is not. USA needs to step up enforcement of their rules.

Jul 29, 2011 7:54 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Satya

I wrote it. And I did not write that Palmer testified at the hearing. Scroll up and read it again. This is what I wrote:

"Palmer has provided written testimony to a Senate subcommittee that's holding a hearing on immigration reform. The subcommittee is likely to be blown away by that testimony, because Palmer, finally free to speak his mind, is doing just that. At the request of the office of Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), Palmer submitted his testimony to today's Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees and Border Security, at its hearing on 'The Economic Imperative for Enacting Immigration Reform.'"

I trust that you'll be more careful to avoid misstating the facts in the future.

Jul 30, 2011 10:14 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to GreatAmericans

Hahahaha...who said I was a citizen :P

Jul 30, 2011 7:12 PM GreatAmericans GreatAmericans  says: in response to hireamerica

This is what now american schools and kids there doing to catch up with immigrants


just 1600+ classes ...may be just few 32000+ students took part in the scam...

This is just known list of class count...unkown may be few 1000's....

and all they want is high tech jobs....by just beating down calmn people is called bullying...cleanup your own kids fraud before yelling at other..

Jul 30, 2011 7:24 PM GreatAmericans GreatAmericans  says: in response to hireamerica

Hireamerica....now its time for fire america...

Stop all your fraud activities including spreading false information in the internet from your mothers basement...

Go and do some real job before posting in any forum/blog....may you got fired by immigrant because you are one useless who always do nothing but post and respond to every single forum/blog wherever word H1,L1 or B1 shows up.

Go teach your kids and get them to compete with immigrants for job instead of frauding all hard working kids...

Go and stop all the frauds your kids school teacher does to gain money (by higher salary...maintaing job by fraud work...)

Go and ask your idiot politicans to work for you..instead of corporate...by the way best of luck for increasing debit ceiling.. they still fighting like kindergarteners....may be they got educated in same fraud schools.

How do you think these fraud kids going to catch up with college...oh there also you guys will cheat to show off high scores...and join some finance institute (like Goldman Sachs) and continue your fraud work there (high tech experieced in fraud from school itself)...

Then jobless poor fellow like you come to public forum and blogs to point finger at immigrats shamelessly....

Now jump on my messages...anyway I won't come back here to check your worthless trash...

Man...you have time to put your trash 100 times in a day and you expect any person with brain to give job...thank god they kicked you out of office otherwise you just eat their hard earned money in the name of citizen...your one worthless meat for your country

Aug 5, 2011 6:57 PM India_taati India_taati  says: in response to hireamerica

He reads Astrology, he knows everything.

When are Indians going to get Sewage System.

Aug 19, 2011 9:19 AM chris chris  says:

Tell congress to end these abuses.

Sign the petition at Change.org


Sep 6, 2011 7:04 PM Indian Indian  says: in response to SVEngineer

Hey SVEnginner

I know this forum is not the point of such discussion but what i cant take is someone said something bad for my country.

Could you pls. ask you professor Patrick to check the history in detail first, ask him to check the lord Curzon statement about Calcutta on 2nd feb 1905 and why he was in favor of dividing the calcutta in 2 parts.

Also ask your same Professor to check for Charles Woodraffe  and why he was in favor to teach English in India.

My point is dont just listen to someone & believe ... get your facts straight. I wish i can attend this lecture of Prof. Patrick so i can get his facts straight.

Apr 21, 2012 8:39 AM jay jay  says:

Very true.  I have heard small Indian companies openly saying it.  I have met Indian employees working on projects in US with B1 visa.  They all say it proudly that that they have displayed the US citizens wvwn though not skilled.  They display their wealth earned by wrong means Unfortunatley it is not just limited to Infosys only. There are other comapnies involved too and they are all proud of it going around the law and making money. I have mainly seen Indians invloved in it may be there are people from other countries too but number is significantly less-I guess. Whi is ashamed in all this process - I do not have the answer. But I have the answer about who is the sufferer and the looser

May 7, 2012 6:04 PM SB SB  says: in response to Jake_Leone

That is not true. A lot of Americans come to India on deputation and get paid hefty packages for this - a major chunk of which comes from the Indian subsidiary's pocket. This is more of a 'testing the waters' scenario so they can go back to their home base after a certain period but travel the country while they are here. There are a few who do stay back but besides that, how many Americans would be interested in being employed by an Indian company in India?

From my several trips to the US, I see India on the Top 5 destination list of every other American (which is really flattering) but not as an employer.


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