Infosys' Outgoing Chairman 'Sad' About Visa Fraud Investigation

Don Tennant

Narayana Murthy, the founder and outgoing chairman of Infosys Technologies, appears to be genuinely burdened by the ramifications of the visa fraud lawsuit brought against the company by Infosys employee and whistleblower Jay Palmer. Speaking on Saturday at his last shareholders meeting as chairman, he singled the case out as a source of sadness, and gave no indication that he believes there are no grounds for Palmer's allegations.


Murthy's reference to the case was particularly noteworthy in that he was compelled to mention it in what were relatively brief remarks to a global constituency as he was ending his 30-year career at Infosys. According to the Indian media outlet NDTV Profit, here's what he said:

It is not easy for me to deliver my last address at this forum. As I speak, a mosaic of images from the past whizz through my mind. As I leave the board, I feel sad that Infosys has been issued a subpoena by a grand jury in the US on the B1 issue. The issue will be decided on its merits in due course.

Murthy left it at that, and went on to speak of the need for Infosys to continue to "focus on embracing meritocracy, transparency and openness of discussions." I may be reading too much into it, but there seems to me to be at least a hint of contrition in Murthy's remarks. What he said is clearly a far cry from his comment on the case made in early May. As I reported in my post, "Feds Offer Protection to Infosys Whistleblower Following Death Threats," Murthy appeared at the time to question whether a problem even existed. When he was asked about the allegations of visa misuse, this was his response:

That is under investigation right now. We have hired a well-known legal enterprise in the U.S. It is work in progress. We don't know the details and whether there is any issue at all. So at this point of time, I am not able to comment.

Perhaps the investigation by the legal enterprise that Infosys hired yielded results that forced Murthy to be a little less cavalier. If so, it begs a key question: Did the investigation provide information about Infosys engaging in visa fraud that was news to Murthy, or information that demonstrated that U.S. authorities were sitting on evidence that suggested Infosys could no longer get away with the shenanigans that had become an institutionalized way of doing business?


It seems implausible that Murthy could have been unaware of Infosys' documented practice of using B1 visas to circumvent H-1B visa costs and restrictions. It seems far more likely that he would be very much in the loop on Infosys' business practices in a market that accounts for two-thirds of the company's revenue. So is Murthy saddened by the fact that his company is alleged to have engaged in visa fraud, or by the idea that it's finally being called to account for it?

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Jun 13, 2011 11:23 AM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

yeah... I have seen all "Americans and/or Non-Americans" cheering not getting caught driving at 90miles/hr on a 65 limit road..

Even a child skipping a class (saying he/she was sick) feels proud and smart enough to have dodged the teacher... !!

ITS HUMAN... to do something wrong - not getting caught - then feeling proud about it...!!

even YOU have done it when u were a child and YOU still do it probably everyday. don't you Dolores?

I am not saying thats correct or not. I am just giving another perspective.

And yes, Murthy is sad for Infosys being named in this fraud. Coz it hurts business to be defamed. But unless the case is proven... you cannot say he is sad coz Infosys got caught. He is sad for sure. Reason we don't know till the case is decided. Be reasonable!!

If it was your business (lets say you are a contractor making buildings in US). And somene alleges in media that you are not doing things as you shud.. you will be sad coz ur company name is being ruined. You might be guilty or not.. thats for court to decide... but YOU sure will lbe SAD...very SAD trust me.

Finally, I agree, there is no smoke without fire.. so there is something wrong - for sure . It will be decided in due course of time - in court or thru an outside arbitrator... Its Palmer vs Infosys. One will come out clean!!

Jun 13, 2011 11:28 AM Justin Justin  says: in response to jobs4US

Yes, I agree. Americans should apply for these jobs.

If Americans can work at salary levels xIndians/Asians work for (basic mimumum per law), they are equally eligible for these jobs!!

Jun 13, 2011 11:30 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says:

Well I'm really sad to see him go.  (ok, maybe I'm not)

Look, the practice is so pervasive among these type of firms that Murthy knows exactly what is going on.  He of course, along with other Infosys executives, made a calculated business decision that they could play in the grey area and sometimes the black area of immigration law and profit from it.

Their calculations may turn out to be wrong.  But there is no way he didn't both know about these common practices as well as allow them to take place within his organization.

He should be sad that he allowed greed to trump not only the rule of law, but also "the right thing".  Even if what Murthy's company did was perfectly legal (which it isn't), it is still unethical.

Infosys shouldn't be forced by the law to stop using immigration as a labor arbitrage tool - they should stop themselves because it is the wrong thing to do.  They are building ill-will not only among Americans, but also among people who could potentially decided on hiring Infosys in the future (or not).

Why should anyone trust Infosys to do the right thing for them as a service provider to their customers, when they clearly aren't willing to do the right thing in other aspects of their business?  This is just as much a trust issue as it is an issue of immigration law. 

Do you trust Infosys with your data and to work within your IT infrastructure?  If they don't follow immigration and labor laws, what makes you believe they won't also ignore laws protecting intellectual property?

If Infosys feels that they can pick and choose what laws they will follow, that is very troubling for people who depend on the law to protect their sensitive information and their IP. 

Yes, you can always sue Infosys if they wrong you - but do you even want to do business with a company that you may need to sue one day?  Do you also want the additional risk of international courts?

Jun 13, 2011 11:32 AM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

ITs funny Dolores... you are doing the same thing yourself that you are complaining about..

I don't know where you got to know the details of feeling of so called "Upper class Indians"?

Its pure prejudice!! you are mocking a section of society that you know very limited about in complete contradiction to what you are complaining about.

Thumps Up!!

Jun 13, 2011 11:37 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Justin

"Yes, I agree. Americans should apply for these jobs.

If Americans can work at salary levels xIndians/Asians work for (basic mimumum per law), they are equally eligible for these jobs!!"

Justin, immigration should not be a tool of labor arbitrage.  It is absurd to think that we would allow companies to import labor for the sole purpose of decreasing our own wages 

I find your comments insulting to America's working class IT professionals.  That said, I hope you keep making them because you are making a case for me. 

Go forth and blog about how much you believe immigration should be used to lower wages.  That will sell really well in Peoria. 

Jun 13, 2011 11:39 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Justin

I have known many upper class Indians both online and in person. It takes an American a minute or two to figure out that they are expressing contempt for us because we're not used to it (unlike Dalits). Nothing like been sneered at by a Tamil Brahmin. You forget that large swarms of them have been here for over a decade now, pssng off Americans every chance they got. Bring enough of them here and displace enough of us and we'll get used to it I guess.

And no, I don't go around breaking laws. Over here you can't bribe the cops.

Jun 13, 2011 11:41 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Justin

It is illegal to use the H-1B to lower American wages. They were supposed to get paid as much or more than us but nobody enforced it, so the cutthroat desi bodyshops started trafficking operations all over America.

Jun 13, 2011 12:09 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

I have never met anyone who had not driven above speed limit.

I know many Indians and have never felt contempt. Most of them are nice unharming ppl.

When you make a generic comment like that for any nationality ... make sure that it applies to a good % of that populace. I am not sure you can say that generically about Indians. I kow them personally. And i find most of them are nicer than my fellow American coworkers.

Thnk on it!!

Anyone else here supporting Dolores?

Jun 13, 2011 12:13 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

Its legal to get paid minimum legal wages set forth by DoL. If someone is paying below that limit, its illegal. And you should bring up that case to the authorities.

Be practical guys.

Agreed that Indians/Asians are taking over US jobs.. but give them some credit.. there is a reason they are here. Try to analyze why in the first place this trend started. Maufacturing in China is cheaper. Getting the work done in India is cheaper.

Try to get to the root cause rather than just being all over the place.

And yes, Visa Fraud is illegal. LEts stick to that topic rather than generaically saying Indians are mean/snobby. I rather feel they are submissive and accomodating (adjust in a new country).

You go and try to settle down in Germany or even Quebec Canada?

Jun 13, 2011 12:16 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to R. Lawson

Jun 13, 2011 4:37 PM

I am just saying thats lets be practical and competitive.

US healthcare (most expensive), manufacturing - ford, chevy - non-competitive...

I am just saying be competitive..

Again, I am not saying Visa fraud is legal.. it shud be stopped.

Jun 13, 2011 12:22 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Justin

I don't want this forum used as a means for groups of individuals to side for or against other individuals. If you have a view to express, express it. Do not incite or call on other people to side with you or against other people. If you need to do that, go elsewhere.

Jun 13, 2011 12:38 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Justin

Justin, I'm not willing to budge on things I consider human rights, labor rights, or immigration rights issues. 

Mankind has done many terrible things in the name of "being practical".  I can justify just about anything using that argument.

What if Lincoln said "Let's be practical"?

What if we decided to be "practical" after Pearl Harbor?

What if we decided to be "practical" after children started dropping dead in factory sweat shops?

You have just convinced me that we need Social Studies and Civics just as much as we need Math courses in high school.  You have much to learn regarding American values. 

I didn't join the military when I was a youngster to protect your "practical" solutions, and I doubt the millions of Americans who have died over the years would think highly about your capitulation on our American values.

Jun 13, 2011 12:41 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Don Tennant

Apologize for that Don. I was just trying to make a point.. not actually going against someone. I am just saying that Dolores should not condemn a particular cast/creed/religion or make negative unsubstantiated comments against them. I hope you have taken a note of that as well and wouldn't mind speaking up against that as well.

My comments are mostly generic. I am not brandishing against any spefcific caste/creed/religion. I am in expressing my objection to his specific comments like "Tamil Brahmins are sneering". He says he has met many Tamil brahmins in person and online - So he goes around asking peoples caste or can he look at them or tell what caste that person is?

Is he sure about his comment.

I am just want to express my opinion in this forum with so many intellectual folks around.. that make substantiated statements. Not 1 off incidents that you might have faced.

I hope you as an onwer of this blog should ask everyone to take a note of that not just poor "Justin".

I feel being picked on by a schoolteacher

Jun 13, 2011 12:46 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Justin

Uh, the Brahmins I have known are quite happy to mention it, one way or another. Flashing one's status is not exactly a secret art.


Jun 13, 2011 12:52 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

Alright... I quit!! Can't argue anymore!!

My experience says that Indians are submissive and accomodating... The biggest challenge i have faced working with them is thay they always say "yes" to any work you allocate them. And poor guys will work overtime to do it.

But you stay happy with your opinion and I am happy with mine.

Thanks for your insights though, makes me aware !!

Jun 13, 2011 1:03 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Justin

When it comes to a status situation: To the boss, they say yes to everything. To coworkers, superficially polite. To people they perceive to be of lower status - not a pretty story. I'm told by people who've been there that it's the same in India, that the culture is very pecking-order sensitive.

Jun 13, 2011 1:14 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to R. Lawson

I am saying why not analyze the root cause of Asians being in US? They can't be all here by fluke. Their is some basis for that.

I am just saying that lets tackle that. Lets be competitive in all respects be it innovation or wages. I am saying that lets be practical and analyze the root cause.

I value what America stands for..I konw why america is where it is today... it the innovation, natural resources and military and all the "smart" work americans have done... there are some mistakes too.

So I am saying get to the root cause and tackle it. Its an open economy.. America goes to India and China for manufacturing and Indians/Asians come here for jobs and better living standards.

Try to see why this is happening (a few cases of Visa fraud is certainly not the root cause).

Jun 13, 2011 1:19 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

I am not gonna comment more on that. I know American culture and have experience of Indian culture as well. Everything has a history and its reasons... As Lawson said lot has been done in the name of being "practical" everywhere in the world... Was being done up uptil a few years ago in US (with African Americans)... its just a matter of time. Its an evolving world I believe.

I am no one to comment on any culture. Its beyond me I guess...

Jun 13, 2011 1:22 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Justin

If the H-1B had been used as the law intended, not a single American would have been displaced and our salary levels would not have fallen in industries where H-1B usage has concentrated. But all the things that were not supposed to happen have, and we now have a massive network of human trafficking (bodyshops) that bypass American workers altogether. By that test, the original intent of the law, almost all guestworker visas are fraudulent and illegitimate.

Jun 13, 2011 1:31 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

ahh.. good to know..  Almost all guestworker visas are fradulent and illegitimate!!

Jun 13, 2011 1:50 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Justin

"I am saying why not analyze the root cause of Asians being in US? They can't be all here by fluke. Their is some basis for that."

I understand what motivates people to move to the United States - in almost every case they are looking for something they currently lack.  We attract immigrants from all over the world so reasons vary from basic human rights and survival to improvement of economic circumstance.  Some may simply want an experience or change of scenery.  Everyone will have their reasons.

Whatever their motives may be, I don't want their path to include corporate sponsorship and I don't want their being here to harm the domestic workforce already here.  I believe we can very easily craft immigration policy that doesn't create an underclass of workers, while mitigating harm to citizens and creating a net positive.  Policies certainly should not support labor arbitrage or offshore outsourcing.

The high levels of immigration from India are primarily because of the temporary visa programs.  Some people have found other paths, however that is the path most often followed. 

That path isn't teaching Indian immigrants our American values.  Quite the opposite - we are telling them that exploitation of people for profit is quite desirable and many have naturally started their own "body shops" that do just that.  We taught them how and we told them it was OK.  That's a shame.

Why should we expect immigrants to understand American values when their path here is full of contradictions in regards to those very same values? 

Jun 13, 2011 4:53 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Justin

It is indeed a point that was made for the edification of everybody who reads and comments on this blog.

Jun 13, 2011 5:34 PM Bob Bob  says:

he's sad

sad he got caught

and that's it

Jun 13, 2011 5:37 PM jobs4US jobs4US  says:

Infosys may be the largest abuser of B-1 visas (who has gotten caught), but by no means the ONLY employer abusing B-1 and other alphabet soup corporate visas.

Search monsterindia.com, naukri.com, or indeed.co.in for your favorite outsourcing visa, and voila, you'll find hundreds of US jobs.   While you're at it, if you have the qualifications, apply for the job! 

Since it is illegal for employers to advertise jobs that overtly discriminate against Americans e.g. h1 only,  the DOJ has your back.

Brightfuturejobs.com aggregates USA job postings only advertised in India and publishes them on the website.

American citizens have the legal right to apply for these jobs. Stop this discrimination dead in its tracks - Apply for these jobs. 

What's the worst that can happen?   The DOJ will fine the employer on your behalf - or maybe you'll get a job. 

Jun 13, 2011 6:00 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Bob

Bob is right, Murthy is sad he got caught. Why would he feel any contrition at bamboozling a people and nation he feels is inferior and undeserving, as most upper caste Indians feel about America? On many comment boards I've seen them cheer about their ability to get around our laws and regulations. They view it as evidence of their superior intellect.

Jun 13, 2011 6:02 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Don Tennant

Well..in that case your comments could have been a little elaborate to state that both parties need to show restraint.

Someone speaking negatively against a community/caste/creed is not something you would want on your blog...would you?

Jun 14, 2011 8:02 AM Su Su  says: in response to R. Lawson

You should understand ...it is not Su who is deciding anything....Su is just stating what market already decided

Yes some comments, as I said, was very much personal and I'm totally open to any disagreement with that.

I 100% agree to this

"I think the market should decide, and that we should oppose all attempts to manipulate the market - be it through labor arbitrage schemes, tax incentives to offshore, currency manipulation, or other attempts to game the system.  "

Protectionism is destined for failure.

Jun 14, 2011 8:29 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Su

"Protectionism is destined for failure."

We hear that often enough it could be a bumper sticker.  So would you oppose all forms of protectionism?  What if one country gains a trade advantage because they are doing things society generally frowns upon to gain a trade advantage?  Do you reward bad behavior or choose protectionism? 

Here are some real world scenarios.  Which of these do you believe would justify some means of protectionism (tariff, embargo, etc):

Child labor

Forced labor

Indentured labor

Major violation of International environmental laws

Currency manipulation

Government subsidies to manufacturers

Dumping (selling product at a loss to destroy competition, and gain monopoly after they fail)

Trade impacting national security

Unfair taxation policy

A common response to many of these things would be what free traders consider protectionism - and they don't seem to distinguish between good protectionism and bad protectionism.  If you ask them there isn't a good form of protectionism. 

So do the kids continue their 14 hour workday at the cog factory or are you going to protect them with tariffs Su?  Your trading partner has already threatened retaliation if you impose a child-labor tariff and all the free traders are starting to suspect you are a dirty protectionist, so what do you do?

Jun 14, 2011 8:34 AM Native American Native American  says: in response to R. Lawson

You are absolutely right about needing Social Studies and Civics lesson...Its really funny how you have ignored the massacre of native americans in the U.S and are talking about the rest.

An entire population (native americans) was wiped out, that too by barbaric means...by the first wave of immigrants to the U.S. (your forefath

And you talk about human rights, ethics, morality, etc...Its really funny and SAD....first learn about what you actually did to the native americans and then start preaching....

Jun 14, 2011 8:49 AM Su Su  says: in response to R. Lawson

I meant to say that in context.

I agree to your problem and even agree to your solution too, that law should be in a fashion that will make unfair/unethical means unprofitable (because orgs will always think good = profit).

However why such a change in topic. I don't think replcaing work force with better solution is anyway unethical/unfair. You see first what you are protecting. Only logic you will have is you don't believe that workforce is less in quality which I tend to not agree.

Jun 14, 2011 9:18 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Su

"However why such a change in topic. I don't think replcaing work force with better solution is anyway unethical/unfair. You see first what you are protecting. Only logic you will have is you don't believe that workforce is less in quality which I tend to not agree."

I don't understand the point you are making here.  Can you rephrase this?

Jun 14, 2011 11:11 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to Native American

Lemme give you an idea.....go to the cemeteries of those early immigrants and ask them :P

Jun 14, 2011 11:12 AM Su Su  says: in response to R. Lawson

I was saying that you keep on changing course of discussion from a specific topic to a bigger generic topic and vice versa.

While we are on something specific I have seen you take u-turn and start discussing ethics, law, world war and what not and I don't even have any disagreement on those. And vice versa... when we are on something generic then bring a one specific case which doesn't prove anything on a bigger discussion which we were having.

We were talking about protecting American job irrespective of their quality and not allowing competition - then why to take an u-turn and discussing bad face of open trade and taking protecting everything ethical in general.

I don't even disagree on what you said and that was my point. However that was not what we were discussing.

Jun 14, 2011 11:41 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Su

"We were talking about protecting American job irrespective of their quality and not allowing competition "

I'm all for allowing competition.  However, immigration should not be that source of competition FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF COMPETITION.  Immigration should not be about creating new competitors, rather welcoming our new neighbors and future citizens.  They will of course compete in the labor market, but that isn't why they were invited to join us.

India is more than welcome to compete against us on a level playing field.  Using our visa programs as a means to get cheaper labor on the ground here - almost all Americans object to the notion. 

India needs to be a bit more creative in how your companies compete.  I mean really, if the only way you can remain competitive is by driving down wages are your companies really that competitive to begin with?  In a world of emerging technologies and innovations there are plenty of tools for India to compete with, yet the companies spend all their time focusing on cheap human labor. 

Some of America's best inventions came when we didn't have people to exploit.  The cotton gin is a great example of that.  If India moves past this one track mindset your country could do so much more.  You are commoditizing yourselves and are are really positioning Indian companies to be the "IT Janitorial Service" at a time when much of that human labor is being replaced by automation.  The Indian model will be obsolete soon if you don't act soon - in which case I don't need to worry about competing with you. 

I have spent the last 18 months writing software that automates much of software development.  The future is very real to me right now and it includes less people.  New opportunities will be created, but I doubt the transition will be smooth.

Jun 14, 2011 12:00 PM Su Su  says: in response to R. Lawson

yes I agree and so now you are talking about quality.

Even India as a country if can't compete on that whoever individuals can they will. It has no conflict with US jobs.

Indian cheap labors are replacing US cheap labor (but expensive economically). You can find comfort by assuming all Indian workers here are good for nothing but it is not going to help anything. Whenever that world is acheived let the market decide again what it needs.

Overall nothing is addressing how to protect or create job for Americans if I assume they refuse provide quality. The concern is to create a model where outside compettion will be prevented from bothering US workforce.

Infact I have seen Indian cheap labors creating more automated tools and saving client money and there by replacing useless departemnts in org structure and thereby causing firing of thousands of US IT professionals. You have to really stop that to whatever you are trying to acheive.

As I said it need not be Indian govtmnt or Indian companies - even if they fail miserably. You can't stop inflow of any kind of competition in IT world. Even if Infosys, TATA are doomed tomorrow Indians will keep on working for whoever or whatever model is successful in US market.

Yes it is all market driven and as long as US remains a lucrative open market - story will continue.

Jun 14, 2011 12:38 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Su

"Overall nothing is addressing how to protect or create job for Americans"

I think jobs are the root issue here and always on the front of my mind.  It's quite a conundrum because from a business perspective my job is quite often to replace jobs with automation. 

As a citizen on the front lines of this exercise, we often say things like "they will find jobs further up the food chain" but in practice I haven't seen that to be the case.  I've sent scores of accountants packing, and who knows how many data entry clerks.   Most recently I've created tools that replaced dozens of developers (or prevented their hiring in the first place).

I don't think that society (in India, the United States, or elsewhere) can keep up with both the scope of change and the pace of change when it comes to automation combined with globalization.  Schools, colleges, public institutions, careers, and society as a whole does not shift on a dime.

In short, I think that we will see higher unemployment and an even larger divide between rich and poor.  Just today it was reported that we reached an ominous mark - the greatest disparity in the distribution of wealth ever: blogs.forbes.com/objectivist/2011/06/14/when-it-comes-to-wealth-creation-there-is-no-pie/

I think there are things we can do short term as a nation - including getting tough on China's currency manipulation.  That will drive the cost of goods up and there will be an immediate pain for poor people, who have less money this year than last. 

Our economic growth was fueled by debt - and the worst kind of debt.  We weren't building infrastructure - no we were buying cheap electronics that will be in a landfill in five years.  There is no painless way out of this, unfortunately.  Until Americans realize that we need to balance our budgets at home, at work, in government, AND in trade - and that consumerism and consumption aren't sustainable long term growth strategies - we are in big trouble.

The question isn't what we start doing.  The question should be what we stop doing.  I believe that our foreign policy, trade policy, immigration policy, an just about every other policy is leading us down the wrong path.  The reason is that the people influencing those policies (corporations) don't have our long-term interests in mind.  They are interested in short term profits.

If I could come up with just one solution, it would be to break up larger institutions once again.  We need a trust buster.  I would focus on financial services and the media.  The media is our national watchdog, but unfortunately corporations are feeding the dog under the fence and he really likes them.

I am tempted to say fair trade, but I don't think we can achieve that unless we have an independent an unbiased media.  I really think consolidation of the media and other industries is a big problem and that by solving that problem many other problems will also be solved (we need to get our watchdog back).

Jun 14, 2011 1:34 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

I would have expected Don to object to these comments from Dolores.

Jun 14, 2011 1:41 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores


Immigrant workers pay equal taxes as US citizens do. They are finding US socical security system even H1B's pay SS/Medicare tax. And they are not eligible to get any of that back. They come here, work for 6 years and go back. All this while they pay fedral tax/ SS tax and medicare tax.

Fedral tax = amenities

SS tax and medicare tax = NULL/NOthing - they do not get any benefit.

Jun 14, 2011 1:53 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Justin

They do not pay equal taxes because income taxes are progressive. Earn less (as some here are bragging that they are more economical than American workers), pay less. And if they live in a rental unit, they don't pay property tax. And if they send remittances home or save money back home, that's more wealth removed. If they buy a house at a fire sale price after it was foreclosed from an American, they will pay less property tax because of the lower price they paid than the American was paying - property tax is assessed on the market value. Their presence in large numbers causes state and local governmental entities' budgets to wither over the years. And when they displace local workers, the local workers end up needing more taxpayer-funded services, further depleting state and local budgets. American can't afford all this cheap labor. It's a bad bargain in the long run.

Jun 14, 2011 3:50 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

So Dolores... U have very intelligent/brillinat fundas you share here. Always something good to learn. thanks again :P

So, if someone is not earning high and paying less taxes, thats something wrong on that persons part... ah..

I thought that - if someone rents, the owners pay the property tax..so indirectly the renter pays the property tax for whatever small apartment they live in.

And you smartly circumvented the SS tax and medicare tax thing. Isn't that funding US social security system. Infosys alone has 10K emplyees who pay SS tax and do not get any benefit out of it. Considering that to be $300 per month, that is equal to

10,000 X 300 X 12 = 36,000,000 = 36 million dollars/year

This is just the employee share. Employers pay the same amount and this was just for Infosys folks...multply it with TCS, Cognizant, Wipro and You can calculate how much it adds up YOUR social security benefits per year. And then multiply with as many years you think these Asians folks have been working in US... it will probably it will run into billions

And same applies to medicare tax

So, dont even go there and talk about these folks paying less taxes and getting more benefits.

Dolores: " If they buy a house at a fire sale price after it was foreclosed from an American, they will pay less property tax because of the lower price they paid than the American was paying - property tax is assessed on the market value."

So, live as per your means. And Save for FUTURE.

Thats what Lawson said : "Our economic growth was fueled by debt - and the worst kind of debt". American problem is unnecessary expenses and living beyond means. Its a consumer driven economy. America consumes more than it can afford. You want to buy an iPad and iPhone both at the same time and dump them in 2 years when you could have lived with a simple phone. So, don't go in that direction of an Indian benefitting from foreclosure. Everyone suffered from that slump. the whole WORLD and it was triggered by mistakes in US market.

Jun 14, 2011 4:04 PM Shane Shane  says: in response to Justin

After reading all comments I found Lawson, Su and Justin quite sensible. Hireamerican and Dolores has to do some homework before participating in public forum.

Jun 14, 2011 4:06 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Justin

To be fair Justin, India and almost every nation we trade with has benefited from American consumerism.  If we start tightening our purse strings and keep a closer eye on our wallets, India will certainly feel the pinch.

Jun 14, 2011 4:54 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Native American

Oh, wow, the Native American argument. Almost always presented by Asian Indians faking being Native Americans, btw. And of course never mentioning India's treatment of its own tribal people. Really the pot calls the kettle, once again.

But the bottom line is, it's just another rationalization for their planned grab of our nation. Their own is a basket case, and it's easier to just come here.

Jun 14, 2011 5:54 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to R. Lawson

Agreed Lawson. It would.

US pays $ for stuff it buys. Keep printing more $'s and $ will eventually go down. The countries stashing $ will be at a loss then. China is intelligent, its buying assets with those $. It will slowly reduce it stash of $'s.

All that aside... on your comments above. If I was in your place I would rather worry about my purse rather than what other countires would face. I have been always saying... we are all humans - We live for ourselves first. Humans are selfish by nature - whether American or Indian. Only if your stomach is full you can talk big (unless you are a saint).

If given a chance, if offered 2-3 times salary -  Dolores would gladly take a job in UK/Germany/Austria or may be in even in India. Even if it replaces 10 active jobs (those 10 ppl might be feeding 50 by Indian standards)

And I have stated it a couple of times - I am not supporting Infosys or any other Indian/American IT company if they do illegal frauds. Just that bashing Indians'Asians for taking over US jobs is not wise. If policies allow ppl to travel, they will. Anyone will.

We need to analyze the basic human tendency and ourselves before we speak about ppl/caste/creed/religion etc. Look back millions of years: everything is evolving... not just humans..but their ancestors or even apes. We have been trying to improve our conditions - the surroundings we live in. Its human to live better. So, given a chance anyone would want a better living standard for himself/herself.

So its the policies that need to change. Like most things, H1 program has its pros and cons. Those need to be evaluated. Any such program that US (or any other contry) has should benefit the native ppl in the long run.

Jun 14, 2011 5:59 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Justin

And now that I think more on it, probably I would not blame Dolores for his comments.

My analysis of his comments say that: Dolores has suffered first hand due to this H1 visa program. He certianly has lost a job to some Indian chap or atleast his job is/has been on the anvil and he is under constant pressure from Asians/Indians on his job.

I completely emphathize if thats the case.

But I guess thats what open market has done to US car market. So the real deal as Su says is to be competetive - have some sellabilty of your own.. some distinguishing feature that helps you when things are down.

Anyways, I guess I will shut up now.

Jun 14, 2011 6:06 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Native American

I have in no way ignored the history of Native Americans.  I have always been fascinated by Native American history.

One of my favorite times as a child was spending the summer on the Navajo Indian Reservation.  My step father was a missionary and retained friends over the years so we would go back there many times.  His degree was in archeology and his focus was on Native Americans so I learned from him growing up about this history.  Whenever we discovered ruins (abandoned caves often with human bones) we were careful to look, but not touch or disturb.

History is one of my favorite subjects so I disagree with any criticism on that point.  If only we looked to our past more often.  Our past is why I oppose the H-1b visa.  I see almost the same narrative with the H-1b that we had with both slavery and indentured servitude.

Jun 14, 2011 6:17 PM Su Su  says: in response to R. Lawson

"It is absurd to think that we would allow companies to import labor for the sole purpose of decreasing our own wages"-This is not happening either. Immigrants can decrease American wages in every possible field but it is not going to happen. It is happening only when wages are absurdly high without offering any quality. Ultimately it will be better for US if they keep replacing that workforce with "practical" solution.

Similar things I have seen in other labors also and opinion is strictly personal and everyone has right to differ but closely seeing US labor market my personal feeling is they live in a different rosy world. Everyone thinks they are doing hard work but they are not-just because they are protected. Starting from bartender to plumbers and barbers-they all are too much laid back and the moment you put them in any sort of competition with immigrants they will be just washed out in competition-but that is not going to happen. Certain jobs will always be protected and there is no need to bring cheap labor from outside. Let them struggle "wherever they already are". However on some areas (like IT, healtcare etc) only you will always have such completion where there is genuine need - not shortage.


Jun 14, 2011 6:26 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Su

To say that American wages are "absurdly high" shows an amazing ignorance of how the American economy works. Ignorant foreigners always think that the American's paycheck is just spending money for him, but his paycheck actually goes to cover big American taxes and big American bills. Many basic cost much more here. Foreigners are in love with the cleanliness and safety of America, and all the ammenities, without having a clue as to where these things came from.  They came from taxes on Americans, that's where.

Other than that, Su's sentiments are nothing but the hateful racism and discrimination that we already have enough of home-grown. Let's not import anyone with these attitudes towards Americans.

Jun 14, 2011 6:31 PM Su Su  says: in response to R. Lawson

"Policies certainly should not support labor arbitrage or offshore outsourcing."-Why? You can put some conditions (ethical, social, political whatever..) around it but why such blunt statement? Who will do business with US then? Why should others buy US products or even sell to US. Who will decide what US will buy and what they will sell. And then don't go to "quality"-it is some sort of quality better than "already here" which makes outsource possible.

Jun 14, 2011 6:35 PM Su Su  says:

I think, Dolores and Roy what you are saying is very much correct thing conceptually' but the solution you are proposing may not be that easy. When it comes to become practically' implement something it is not that easy. Let's say if you are saying if do not "harm the domestic workforce already here" which is okay but how will you ensure quality among that workforce. How will you make them competitive? Don't you think they will take it easy and start talking about human rights all the time and seat idle? Whenever you make them compete they will cry either-I'm working too much or I'm getting paid too less and you keep protect them. How will you strike the balance of protecting them and at the sometime get best out of them?

I personally have experience of seeing both workforce and I agree that the immigrants might be giving more output just because of corporate blackmailing of being their sponsor. However, I have seen many resources from "already here workforce" are too lazy in their work and they take everything as their rights. They are too much busy walking, running, taking care of their cute little puppies and for them surviving in life become too much easy. That is very harmful for a society. I don't think hardworking workforce has any problem to survive and no one can take their job away and in fact there is demand for it.

You can always argue that it is not true and this entire workforce is way better than what immigrants are offering-it is just fraud and malpractice with which they are as if torturing innocent American workforce-then argument ends. 

Coming back to practicality... I have my doubts if you start protecting-you can maintain same quality in workforce and over the larger timeframe it will be even more harmful for country's backbone.

Jun 14, 2011 6:36 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Justin

Justin: "Only if your stomach is full you can talk big (unless you are a saint)."

There is one factor that you haven't considered and I didn't bring up - simply because I don't like the prospect.

Almost every major recession or depression is followed by war.  If hunger becomes a problem in the United States, pray that your region isn't brought into the hell that will be unleashed.  Remember, we have more weapons than we know what to do with.

War is what created a prosperous America following WWII.  The rest of the world's manufacturing base was in ruins and our factories were running day and night.  That is most likely going to be how we (attempt to) recover economically from our current recession that I suspect will run multiple administrations.

History tends to repeat itself.  If I had to wager money on the next major war (I don't consider Iraq major, BTW), I would say it is the United States against China and it will be because of some actions by either North Korea or Taiwan that give us an excuse.  Japan will at that point end their non-aggression policy and support the US, as will South Korea of course.  Seoul will be a hell-hole within 5 minutes of the first strike.

If the dollar is worthless and we can't buy Chinese goods anyways (assuming the dollar collapses at some point) China no longer has economic leverage.

This is one reason I think China is being incredibly short sighted right now in their trade policy.  They have plenty of history so they must know that two giants don't tend to peacefully occupy the same space for very long.  Things look OK now, but I believe this is the quiet before the storm. 

I know very well what men are capable of (very bad things).  And when wealthy people in the US see their wealth at risk they will demand action.

Oh, and the end of the story is that Europe regains economic dominance globally because the US and China bomb the hell out of each other.  The UK will provide support, but not troops and France will sew some white flags for us.  NATO who?  Unfortunately, I don't think the prospect of this likely end-game will prevent war.

I would much rather have a war via protectionism with China.  Less people will die, and we will come out stronger because of their current trade advantage.  It will be painful, but less painful than war.  The moral of that story would be self-reliance and thrift.

I'm a history buff so I have all these scenarios playing in my mind as to what we have in store.  I'm not saying next year or even next decade, but if I live a full life I suspect we will be at war with China before my life is over.  Hell, that might be why my life is over.

Jun 14, 2011 6:49 PM Su Su  says: in response to Dolores

"Let's not import anyone with these attitudes towards Americans. " that is the key...if you say that everyone will say Let's not talk with Americans.

But that is not going to happen. Even Americans are not that way - only few americans are that way like you. Whatever I say to you or someone else I don't talk to Americans. I don't typecast as if you stand for entire America. So don't take it that way.

Let's not go to racism - at least with you!!

Jun 14, 2011 6:50 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Su

"Why should others buy US products or even sell to US. Who will decide what US will buy and what they will sell. "

Why should our immigration policies influence your decision to buy from us or not?  Why should our immigration policies enable you to send jobs overseas? 

I'm not saying that we not allow Indian companies to apply their trade in the United States.  I'm saying that our immigration policies shouldn't help them gain an unfair advantage.

If you want to engage in a trade war, remember we are the ones with a trade deficit.  We buy far more from India in goods and services than India buys from the United States. 

In short, shipping a bunch of people from India to the United States in order to offshore work shouldn't be your business plan.  Hiring American workers to help you offshore work should be.  You are really a greedy person - wanting to win on all sides and all angles.  Trade is suppose to be win-win (and by that I don't mean you win both times).

I suspect that greed is going to undermine India.  Your diplomats really do act like used car salespeople as opposed to statesmen.  The more they speak, the bigger a hole they dig.

Jun 14, 2011 6:59 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to R. Lawson

Who is this Su or anyone to come in and say our salaries are too high or too low or too anything? That's just an opinion. The fact is that before global labor arbitrage, America had a much healthier economy. It does nothing good for America to pauperize so many American (former) breadwinners. To many foreigners, America is just one big pot of gold and they want to come grab. But we Americans don't have another homeland to return to if America doesn't work out for us, so we better do something. America invented the IT profession and did a great job with it before global labor arbitrage. It's nonsense to say that foreign workers are better.

Jun 14, 2011 7:03 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Justin

I'm comfortable with my record of advocating restraint with respect to speaking negatively against anyone.

Jun 14, 2011 7:14 PM Sam Sam  says: in response to Dolores

Doleres is one such ignorant who thinks only Americans pay taxes and calling others ignorant. FYI anyone who is paid in America has to pay tax in America and not everyone who pays Social security tax will enjoy Social Seucrtiy benefits. These benefits  might be used by a person who hasnt contributed in America's economy in his tenure compared to an immigranted.

Jun 14, 2011 7:17 PM Su Su  says: in response to Dolores

"It's nonsense to say that foreign workers are better. " -

Yes if this reality then I agree - no one should come to US and take away US jobs. In a democracy only Voters and law makers will decide what is what.

Jun 14, 2011 7:31 PM Sam Sam  says: in response to Dolores

I dont know if the salary is too high or not but certainly the amount of work done by a car mechanic to charge a labor fee equivalent to an eye specialist is not justified. You can not just take away the efforts a person has done in his/her past to get something. What Charles Darwin said 300 yrs ago was, is and will remain true forever - "Survival of the fittest". So go go go do some hard work or get ready to be wipped out sooner or later!

Jun 14, 2011 7:35 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Sam

More nonsense from the promoters of foreign workers entering the US when what we really need to do is worry about getting our own people back to work.

Jun 14, 2011 7:38 PM Sam Sam  says: in response to Dolores

There is certain type of people ( I dont know the medical term for that) who think everything which is different than their opinion is NONSENSE. Doleres is one of them.

Jun 14, 2011 7:42 PM Su Su  says: in response to Sam

Hope this comment is in generic and true sense rather than targetting any specific community in cheap manner.

No one should wipe out any specific community blindly. It should that 'unfit' who will wipe out.

Jun 14, 2011 7:48 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Dolores

"Who is this Su or anyone to come in and say our salaries are too high or too low or too anything? "

I think the market should decide, and that we should oppose all attempts to manipulate the market - be it through labor arbitrage schemes, tax incentives to offshore, currency manipulation, or other attempts to game the system. 

Social engineering and market manipulation is destined for failure.

Jun 14, 2011 7:52 PM Sam Sam  says: in response to R. Lawson

laid back attitude with an aspiration to get everything is destined for failure.

Jun 15, 2011 3:57 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to Dolores

Ok. Thanks for the insights.

Jun 15, 2011 4:27 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Justin

People who have lived in America for decades (i.e. citizens) can clearly see the harm done to our economic ecosystem by global labor arbitrage.

Jun 15, 2011 7:19 PM Justin Justin  says: in response to R. Lawson

Cannot agree more with your thougts Lawson. Something will brew up with all these imbalances that are being created.

I believe this world a see-saw kind of thing. When one goes up, other goes down. Both cannot be up at the same time for long. That requries a lot of balance and ppl don't have that much patience.

Every now and then, the side that goes down changes. Or you can say, Every now and then, the side that goes up changes. (Depends on whether its glass half full or half empty).

Jun 15, 2011 7:56 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Justin

Renting lowers the property values, which eventually lowers the property tax assessment. The more rentals, the faster the entire neighborhood declines in value. Again we see a withering, from prosperous homeowners to transient hand-to-mouth workers.

Jun 20, 2011 11:11 AM who knows who knows  says:

Very few companies use B1 program as intended, it is the easiest program to abuse (and get a resource to US in short notice for min 3 months to max 6 months) as the requirement to prove the need is very less and easy got get through any scrutiny unless any whistle blower(employee) raise the issue. Unfortunately most of the employee have no backbone to speak against illegal activities and they play significant role in those kind of illegal activities.

To my knowledge no fraud can be completely resolved without active participation from the employees. I doubt NRM has any knowledge about these issue because of massive number of employees (at this point they have 100K). Those kind of minor decisions are taken at Manager level at both end (US and offshore) and very less need to reach at CEO for these decisions when you have 100k employees.

I am not sure what is the need for B1 visas in IT field when technologies have reached so much that you don't even have to drive to office. They can very much attend all the meetings from offshore (when we can do project start to end from offshore).

Jun 20, 2011 12:18 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to R. Lawson

I have one thing to say about your comment on "Body Shops", this is very much aware at federal level and they came up with proving employer-employee relationship at the work site(if you are working at different location other than your company base address mentioned in VISA). This pretty much lead to closure of body shops and if some is still operating that is awaiting closure when they end-up reviewed by govt (they can operate as long as they are lucky but one unlucky day will end up in closure).

Fortunately they can't change the name and reopen in different name (like some pvt bus service company in US does once they caught in Fed investigation) because to sponsor an H1 you should have at the least 3 years of tax filing with some reasonable profit to prove you can pay the h1 resource without any problem.

Jun 20, 2011 2:01 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to who knows

The B1 employee gets hotel/apartment expenses plus his/her usual salary in India while working onshore.

The B1's employer can charge a high bill rate to the customer when they bring the B1 employee onshore.

Can you imagine the profit margins on that!!!!

Jun 21, 2011 9:00 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to who knows

Not all companies pay the per diem....and those that do charge it back to the client as they normally do for travelling resources.

And as for Whistleblowers.....the American employees do not have a clue about the different visas let alone the type of visa a particular offshore resource travels on to be onsite. And the offshore resources will never blow the whistle since it will be like shooting themselves in the foot.

Jun 21, 2011 3:11 PM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to who knows

Interesting comments RangaS.  I think the cat is out of the bag (so to speak) on the B-1 so I would expect more scrutiny - especially of staffing firms.

Most American workers have no idea what visa an immigrant is on, and it would be intrusive to ask.  We really depend on management to obey the law and when they fail we can only hope that someone in management will report it eventually.

Obviously we can't trust companies to police themselves to more over-site is needed.  I suppose companies were so use to getting away with this that they got greedy and made it a business norm.

Corporations complain about regulations - well this is why regulations are created.  They bring it upon themselves.

Jun 21, 2011 4:50 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to R. Lawson

I don't think staffing firms has anything do with B1. In general firms which are big corporate(s) doing business based on outsourcing is the main consumer. Even on those corporate(s) list some are part of BEP Program were given a blank slip to get approval at fast track. This facility was given on the belief that corporate(s) will use it for legitimate reasons only, but no corporate(s) are that good to use this privilege only for legitimate reasons. They started using this special privilege for short term gain and put all the trust from USCIS in the trash (some got banned for few years after getting caught, still the punishment is not that harsh to discourage them).

Big corporate(s) not only got blank slip on B1 (which can affect just 3 - 6 months) but they got on L1 visa which is the major issue. Because L1 blanket (blank slip which can affect for multiple years) which has no regulations (salary, number of L1s, and location restriction) and it comes with heavy restriction on resources (because they can't change the employer without going back to their home country).

Jun 21, 2011 4:55 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to hireamerican

I doubt none of the onsite (american employees) resource have any clue about the visas. As part of documentation they have to provide clear statement of what the resource will be doing here in US and it has to be signed by an american employee who invite the resource.

In general if I need to write a invitation letter I will be getting instruction on what to write and what not to write and what type of visa is being applied, and which means whatever I write I know it is 100% false in those cases. When the resource does other than what have been mentioned (in general attending meetings, training) in the letter then is it not an american employee's responsibility to blow the whistle.

Jun 21, 2011 7:05 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to Dolores

I would like to disagree with your opinion,

If you have a kid you would experienced the basic issue of accessing their Pediatrician(s).If kids get high fever and want immediate attention all you get from your doctor is an appointment 30 days from the day you call them.For this service they charge excessively in the name of professional service all just because you have insurance and it is paid by insurance.Unfortunately because of their excessive charges every year insurance cost rise super fast no matter what you try to do to contain them.

If you never went out of US you have no clue what it costs for basic in other country.Just a sample of basic stuffs

1) Gasoline price :Avg in US $4 vs in India $5.5 and $9 in UK which pretty much affect everything which uses Gasoline as mode of transport.

2) Basic Education :Mostly public school which is free vs Mostly private school starting from $500/yr/kid - $5000/yr/kid based on quality of school.

3) Rent :On avg 20% gross income in US vs Avg 30% to 50% of gross income.

4) Eating out will cost pretty much same

5) Medical :super expensive without insurance in US vs nominal in most of the countries

6) Energy(Electric):From $0.05 - $0.15 in US vs $0.07 - $0.018 in India

7) Loan interest:From 0% to 10% in US vs 8% - 18% in India

Your comments shows as if only US citizens pay taxes and legal immigrants never pay any taxes.Unfortunately legal immigrants (excluding citizens of countries which as treaty with US) pay certain taxes with no option to get any benefit out of it.

For example (from active 2009 H1b data) H1b's in US pays employee share of SS tax close to $980million/yr

+ $900million/yr(employer contribution)

+ Medicare tax of $381million/yr

with no option to benefit if their corporate haven't filed GC and have to go back to their country.All other taxes plays certain role when they are here where as SS and Medicare is something they can benefit only if they get to stay here permanently.Also, I do understand SS and Medicare is not paid for our future and no fund is directly linked to us.

When it comes to people who came on L1 (most MNC's use this visa as there is no number limit and minimum salary requirement) there is no way they can get access to those benefits and they have no option to get permanent residence in US without changing into H1.

And US is not ranked 1st on personal tax rate (includes SS,Medicare, state etc.,) when compared many other developed nations as of 2005 we stand at avg 28% (now with 2% SS tax break we stand at 26%).Also when we rank total tax revenue compared to GDP of the respective country, US ranks at 63td position (with 26.9%).No person in US pay more than most of the developed country and the good thing in US is..richer you are....lesser the tax burden for you (as per current tax break extension).On the side note, the countries which depends on US for oil sales has the least tax revenue as their total GDP (Kuwait     1.5%, United Arab Emirates     1.4%,Saudi Arabia     5.3%)

With tons of tax credit available, if you plan perfectly you can easily get back all your federal taxes (some time you can even earn $$$ from uncle sam which to my knowledge it will be super complex if at all any country offers).And with multiple wars going on it seems we pay super low taxes when compared to the spending (i think 14T deficit will proves that).

Regarding cleanliness I can agree with you but not on Safety (other than after TSA check point in airports). Reply

Jun 21, 2011 7:05 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to Dolores
And I do agree no country (I think we can some credit to Japan) can offer 100% safety without support from public who plays major role in it.In very few countries you get access to guns even if a person is mentally challenged (in the name of Freedom) and US is part of those few countries.So, please refrain from claiming safety of America.

I do believe to my heart that I am paying very less tax for the greatness and freedom I enjoy here.I am ready to pay more (another 10% - 15%) if it takes to get this country out of deficit so that future generation won't struggle.I believe this mess is created by this generation and it is our responsibility to clean it.

Jun 21, 2011 7:11 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to hireamerican

Unfortunately you missed a major part of it, per deem which will be $25 - $50/day (yep....per day you read it correctly) for your expenses on food, transport and any other day to day expenses.

Yes, corporate enjoy's highest profit margin and every person at the company (either client or same company) in US or  (without proper invitation you can't get B1 approval) plays a major role on this fraud. Fortunately US has whistler blower protection and I doubt any other country has any such protection.

Jun 22, 2011 12:51 PM beng beng  says:

This is about the Indian company charged with epic fraud worth $460 million by New York city.  See CNN - www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/06/21/new.york.fraud.indictment/

And now Indian papers say (www.expressindia.com/latest-news/NRI-couple-charged-with-epic-fraud-in-US-has-a-shadow-front-in-Bangalore/806988/ ) that they had a "shadow front" in Bangalore for recruiting purposes.  The report says they brought Indian workers into the US as part of this fraud project.  How cool, outsourced fraud. Will this also be investigated ?

Jun 22, 2011 1:34 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to who knows

The people writing invitation letters are the outsourcer's employees, not client employees. DUH!!

Jun 22, 2011 1:38 PM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to EngiNERD

99% of it is sham.

Jun 22, 2011 4:51 PM EngiNERD EngiNERD  says:

It  took  some time   but the mainstream  media finally  sees a story  and is reporting on this case:

Indian Company Under Scrutiny Over US Visas 

New York Times - Julia Preston, Vikas Bajaj - ?13 hours ago?

"Infosys is a large and rapidly growing company," the statement said. "We have made changes over time to certain of our policies relating to the business visa program and we may continue to make improvements in those policies and controls. ...


Questions:    How much more is to this story?.   How many more cases  of   abuses  going  unreported! 

Jul 5, 2011 6:06 PM who knows who knows  says: in response to hireamerican

With few cases you want to call it 99% sham ?

So, as per your theory if more than few cases identified then we should consider that 99% sham.

Now how about the news (old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110703/ap_on_bi_ge/us_unemployment_insurance_fraud)  that "$17billion benefits swindle last year alone" from unemployment insurance, so can we consider 99% of it is sham ?

Don't think that only very selected few get access to internet/information and has special privilege to misinterpret a news.

Jul 6, 2011 4:17 PM Ulysses_S_Grant Ulysses_S_Grant  says: in response to Dolores

You seem to know a lot about India, Indians, their culture ('dalits', 'Tamil Brahmins', upper and lower castes, desis, etc). You sure about your choice of your alias? As likely to reflect your caucasian ethnicity as mine is ...

Jul 6, 2011 4:32 PM Regular_Joe Regular_Joe  says: in response to Dolores

There you go again Dolores, targeting the Indians again. Out of the 300 million plus population of America, Indians make up less than 3 million, out of which many are accomplished Doctors, Scientists, and Engineers in fields other than IT/Computer Science. So considering that over the past 70 years or so since the immigration wave began, there are probably a million or so computer science/IT related Indians in America, it does not actually substantiate your claim that the Indians are out to grab this country's resources. Why so much hatred for the people of a single nation? Did you lose your job to a more talented and intelligent and smart Indian? Go and get educated and compete on merit!!!


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