Disgruntled IT Workers: Not Racist, Just Angry and Fearful

Don Tennant

A post in my blog last week, "Knee-Jerk Foreigner-Bashing Gives IT a Black Eye," generated the angriest outburst of reader commentary I've seen in a long time. If there was a common theme, it was that I am a pawn in the pocket of special interest groups from India, an uncivilized country whose unskilled people are here on a mission to ruin our economy and our way of life.


If you're interested in reading the comment thread, get a cup of coffee first. It's a long one. It should be obvious that if we purged all the nasty comments I get in a blog with the tagline, "The more sensitive it is, the more it warrants discussion," as one commenter referenced, there wouldn't be many comments left to allow for any meaningful debate. But this indeed is the post about those disgruntled American IT workers and their comments.


Now, to set the record straight, I have never labeled anyone who expresses these sorts of views as a racist, although some of their comments are clearly tinged with the kind of hate that's associated with racism. One factor, as some readers have pointed out, is that the anonymity of the Internet leads many people who are otherwise decent, rational, civil individuals to say things that aren't the best reflections of their true character.


Beyond that, racism tends to be something that's entrenched in the social fabric, and experienced over time by a body of the population-notably, in our country, by African Americans. We need to avoid using the term too loosely, so that we're not diminishing the difficulties confronted by the people who have truly been scarred by it.


So it's not that these disgruntled IT workers are racists. It's that they're dealing with a range of emotions, from anger and frustration to fear and uncertainty, and there's a natural inclination to fix their resentment on something that's identifiable.


But what should be clear by now is that that solves nothing, and gets us nowhere. There's a lot that's broken, including our economy and, yes, the H-1B visa program. But none of it will be lastingly repaired until the adversarial, divisive, you're-my-enemy approach to solving our problems is resolutely abandoned.

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Dec 15, 2009 2:25 PM You're Right the System is Broken. Here's a Way to fix it You're Right the System is Broken. Here's a Way to fix it  says:

How to immediately create thousands of American jobs?  

Call an emergency moratorium to suspend all H-1B and L-1 visa hiring for 24 months or until unemployment is 4%.

But it won't happen. Why?

Let's face it, the H-1B Mafia (greedy corporations, corrupt government officials in the US and India) have their own agenda and laid off American tech workers are annoying mosquitoes in their way. The Mafia doesn't give a hoot about laid off Americans, discrimination, or the constitution. 

Paid off politicians represent their benefactors, not the people who elected them.  Is it any coincidence that the first state dinner was for INDIA?

The H-1B Mafia's deadly cocktail - combine corporate greed, bottomless funding of corrupt politicians.   Get -  Taxation without representation.

Sorry, for the people, by the people is gone.   Today's reality-FOR greedy billionaires BUY greedy corporations 

Good News! WE have the Silver Bullet to defeat the H-1B Mafia- the American Consumer.   How?

BOYCOTT Microsoft. NOW. 

What better time to hit the enemy where it hurts but Christmas? Start with Microsoft, the founder, and largest abuser of the H-1b/L-1 visas. The rest will fall like dominos.   

Say NO to Windows 7. Say YES to giving Americans a fair chance to compete for jobs in our own country.   

Say NO to Windows Mobile. Say YES to job creation

Say NO to XBOX. Say YES to giving your kid a chance for a future job (25%+ new college grads jobless) 

How did this happen? Thank Microsoft, ringleader of the H-1B Mafia. Microsoft bought Congress to pass laws that legally allow employers to bypass Americans and hire exclusively offshore for US jobs in the USA. Don't believe me?  Check the Congressional record.  

Spread the word, please. Nothing will happen unless Americans  scream with our wallets.

Employ  Americans. Boycott Microsoft. 

The Job You Save May Be Your Own.

Dec 16, 2009 9:17 AM Donna Conroy Donna Conroy  says:

Don, you failed the most basic tenet of journalism.  Instead of coming clean, you continue to defect crititism by complaining about internet posts.

For you techies out there, the mantra of journalists is, "If your mother says she loves you - check it out!"  Don never checked out corporate spin doctors claim that the H-1b program requires corporations to seek local talent (or even go thru the motions) before recruiting abroad. 

If he did, he would have discovered the infamous DOL quote, "an H-1b can be hired, even when a qualifed US worker wants the job and an H-1b can displace an American worker."  He would have been compelled to integrate this storyline into his reporting.

In 2006, Brightfuturejobs.com discoved 2 federal documents revealing that corporations are protected when they discriminate against us with these programs.  In 2007, we submitted these documents to Durbin's office, along with H-1b only want ads.  Three months later he introduced his reform legislation.

Despite US journalists inability to fact check and repeat tech CEOs derogatory remarks about American talent and our public schools, BFJ and other political organizations, are going to restore our ability to compete for job openings in our own country.

Don, the fingerpointing is over.  The secret about the legal bypass is now permeating the Hill.  Even a New York Times best selling author, David Sirota, has written about this legal bypass.

Why not follow NYT's lead in publishing a mea culpa, showing how your posts were in error, now that you know how destructive these programs have been to the American middle-class and our sense of justice?

Dec 16, 2009 10:01 AM Kumar Kumar  says:

Don, Would you encourage your children (if you have) pursue a STEM career? If no, then STFU! 

Dec 16, 2009 10:25 AM Jim Tumen Jim Tumen  says:

A previous commenter said:

"Say NO to Windows Mobile. Say YES to job creation "

Don't worry. I think America has heard you, and is avoiding Microsoft's Windows Mobile like it is the plague! Everyone's buying iPhones and Android phones instead.

Dec 16, 2009 11:40 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to Don Tennant

Well Don, as you were writing yet your second article passing judgement on American citizen comments on messageboards, congress just floated a 309,500 increase in H-1b visas only yesterday

You really have an interesting sense of priorities - what's more important - comments on messageboards, or the equivelent of every man woman and child in a midwestern metro losing their jobs to even more foreign workers?

Immigration Bill Proposes H-1B Visa Changes

The Comprehensive Immigration Reform for America's Security and Prosperity Act of 2009 would let employers tap into unused visas from previous years.

By Marianne Kolbasuk McGee


December 16, 2009 01:35 PM

Worn out yet by the healthcare reform battles in Congress? Get ready for another hot-button issue resurfacing -- comprehensive immigration reform, including proposed changes to H-1B visas.

Tuesday, Rep. Solomon Ortiz (D-Texas) and dozens of other co-sponsors unveiled in the U.S. House of Representatives the Comprehensive Immigration Reform for America's Security and Prosperity Act of 2009, or CIR ASAP.

Like many previous immigration bills introduced -- but which failed to gain traction in recent years, including the comprehensive immigration overhaul bills debated in the Senate and House in 2007 -- CIR ASAP (H.R. 4321) proposes changes to employment-based visas, including H-1B visas, the temporary visa most commonly used to bring foreign IT professionals into the U.S.

CIR ASAP proposes increasing the number of employment-based visas, such as H-1Bs, that can be granted annually by permitting the "recapture" of unused visas from previous years. This would allow employers to essentially dip into the pool of 309,500 unused H-1B visas left over from 1992 to 2008, said Alex Nowrasteh, policy analyst at Competitive Enterprise Institute, a non-partisan, non-profit think tank based in Washington, D.C.


Dec 16, 2009 11:57 AM Donna Conroy Donna Conroy  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don, I'm not suprised that your children have careers in these institutions.  Both of them have a strong committment to seeking local talent and adhere to EEO hiring guidelines.

These institutions are like this because Americans stood up for themselves and changed the discrimation that was rampant in these institutions in the 1950s and 1960s.

While other industries transformed their recruitment and hiring practices to adhere to the EEO Act, tech industries refused to consider minorities and military vets - at a time when there was a shortage and they were hiring UNQUALIFIED Americans. 

Your children benefit from the path that was paved by Americans who ensured that we all could compete for job openings in our own country.

Dec 16, 2009 2:24 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Tom

Yes, why should Americans have to endure this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/us/15poll.html

just so that foreigners can live the American dream? Who decided that the American dream was for them and not us any more?

Dec 16, 2009 6:21 PM Jim Jim  says:

Don Tennant: Not Anti-American, Just Clueless and Stupid

in the spirit of concessions, Don

Dec 16, 2009 7:26 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Tom

Two things: I have had to walk in your shoes, and I'm judging no one. I'm expressing my view about what will fix our problems, and what won't.

Dec 16, 2009 7:34 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Kumar

I have four children, and two of the three that are out of college have pursued STEM careers. I encouraged them in that pursuit, but then again I would have encouraged them regardless of the career field they chose.

Dec 16, 2009 8:17 PM P Henry P Henry  says: in response to Don Tennant

   When you say "pursued STEM careers", are they currently employed?  If so, I'm interested to know where all these jobs in STEM are.  Cheap labor advocates like yourself have had free rein for several years now with the promise that "more H-1B visa's will equal more jobs for Americans".  Where are these jobs that have been created? 

   Alternatively, we can see Microsoft laying off thousands of American workers while ramping up their use of the H-1B visa.  Meanwhile, American IT workers are somehow supposed to believe this is a good thing.  The way I see it (and I'm sure I'm not the only one), cheap labor advocates such as yourself are selling out fellow Americans.  It's disgraceful and pathetic.

Dec 16, 2009 8:24 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to P Henry

Yes they are. One is a U.S. naval officer, and the other is working at MIT Lincoln Labs.

Dec 16, 2009 8:53 PM Tom Tom  says:

It's still a condecending article Don

Quit attacking the people who are facing up to a lost decade from this disaster, and count your blessings instead judging us

You havent had to walk in our shoes

Dec 17, 2009 9:00 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Donna Conroy

What posts are you referring to that were in error? The views I have expressed on this topic center around the problem I have with generic, mean-spirited, hateful attacks on people from outside this country. I have written repeatedly that the H-1B program is broken and needs to be fixed, but for some reason that gets lost because of my outspokenness against personal attacks on H1-B visa holders. My own view is that such attacks run counter to the values that we as a country hold dear. It is very much the case that I do not feel that the H1-B visa program should be abandoned, because I believe that blocking foreigners from working in this country would be self-defeating -- depriving ourselves of access to the talent that resides outside of this country would be a net loss, in my opinion. But because I hold those views, I have been labeled a pawn of H1-B interests and an advocate of cheap labor. In fact, I am an advocate of global awareness, an appreciation for inclusiveness and the value of associating with people from diverse backgrounds, and a calm, reasoned approach to solving our problems. Let's not sink to a level that ill-becomes us. Let's set the example that others can follow.

Dec 17, 2009 10:50 AM Jim Jim  says: in response to Don Tennant

" It is very much the case that I do not feel that the H1-B visa program should be abandoned, because I believe that blocking foreigners from working in this country would be self-defeating -- depriving ourselves of access to the talent that resides outside of this country would be a net loss, in my opinion. But because I hold those views,

I have been labeled a pawn of H1-B interests and an advocate of cheap labor. "

The shoe fits, you just don't like wearing it

Dec 17, 2009 5:07 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Don Tennant

Nobody is saying "no foreigners" just don't bring in droves and droves of them when droves and droves of us are out of work. Don't be so solicitous of the feelings of foreigners (who've been insulting American workers for years, in my experience) that you turn your back on unemployed Americans. Yes, Americans should have first shot at jobs in America, but they have been increasingly bypassed for the last 10 years. We are in a crisis now, and we need to change our hiring ways, and fast. Foreign talent is not better than American talent. We as a nation have flushed a decade of American talent - the talent that built the American technical advancement in the first place - down the drain. That needs to be reversed. We can't put our people out by the curb on trash day just to prove how inclusive and diverse we are. What about our minorities? They've been trampled in the rush for H-1Bs and L-1s even worse than us whites. Why is it ok to squander American talent? American talent is pounding the pavement right now, while most of the H-1Bs and L-1s (both temporary work visas) get to keep their jobs. That aint right!

Dec 17, 2009 7:13 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Dolores

Thank you for the reasoned, insightful post. It was a breath of fresh air. The fact that we don't share all of the same views isn't what matters. What matters is that we address these important issues without allowing them to be lost in a mire of insults, slurs and reckless accusations.

Dec 19, 2009 11:41 AM Donna Conroy Donna Conroy  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don, just as the New York Times reviewed their articles falsely claiming WMD in Iraq, you need to review your posts for false claims that corporate visa programs are used after corporations seek local talent. 

I'm also confident that your reports neglected to ever mention that these programs allow corporations to recruit abroad, without ever giving citizens and GC holders a chance to compete for these US job openings. 

Have you ever reported that these job openings are competed 9 to 12 months out to citizens from abroad only?  This is a serious error of ommission.  Again, as a journaist, it's your obligation to "check it out!"

You still refuse to address this legal bypass, despite the fact that other journalists are covering this.  You are deceiving yourself when you refuse, as a journalist, to cover this angle.  Legal discrimination has created serious levels of segregation in IT companies and the industry as a whole.  So, Don "check it out!"

This is the land of opportunity.  Legal discrimination never produced diversity or inclusiveness; it only produced segregation and depressed wages.  Only EEO recruiting and hiring creates diversity and inclusiveness and high wages.  That's why Americans overwhelmingly support equal opportunity in hiring.

Plain and simple, you support the segregation that corporate visa programs produce.  And you use these silly posts to deceive youself, like the emperor who had no clothes. 

But you aren't deceiving your readers; they see your naked support for the continuing bypass of local talent and the segregation in IT.

Dec 19, 2009 12:47 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Donna Conroy

With all due respect, all I'm saying is that we need to fix the problems without throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and without all the derision and insults. I appreciate your opinion, but I'm convinced that we will not solve our problems until we rise above all that. Let me also say that I am more than happy to let my record as a journalist speak for itself.

Dec 19, 2009 8:17 PM Replaced by H-1B Replaced by H-1B  says: in response to Don Tennant


There are no atheists in foxholes and no H-1B believers in the unemployment line.  

The world of laid off American talent is not what it used to be. The same time Microsoft laid off 5000+ exceptionally talented and dedicated American workers, they doubled down on H-1B and L-1 hiring - and now have hired more foreign workers than the Americans they replaced.

I invite you to walk in the shoes of laid off Americans in H-1B ground zero, Redmond, WA. Think you will be shocked by what you see and impressed with the caliber of American talent castaway for less qualified foreign replacements.

Dec 20, 2009 2:05 PM Donna Conroy Donna Conroy  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don, it is your journalistic record that's under question here. 

As a journalist, you do have the obligation to verify source information, ie, "check it out!"  As a journalist, you do have the obligation to be reasonably comprehensive in your reporting.  You have failed over many years to do both.

Your serious sins of ommission: neglecting to report that employers are recruiting abroad only; neglecting to report that employers are offering US job openings to citizens from abroad 9-12 months before start date; negelcting to report employers posting H-1b only want ads; neglecting to report that corporate visa programs are essential in the outsourcing of American jobs; neglecting to report that employers hire abroad and then lay off Americans; and, most importantly, neglectiing to report the oversupply of American STEM grads for the last 30 years.

In these cases, the news omitted in your columns is as important -- I'd argue even more important to your readers-- as the information you select to publish.  So you're suprised when your readers critize you for a skewed or biased perspective?

All of the news you have selectively and consistently omitted is now part of 3 bills -- two in the Senate and one in the House.  That's because of a small band of techies in Bright Future Jobs. 

In conclusion, you shouldn't underestimate the power of American techies to right a wrong--and transform the circumstances of our lives by restoring America as the land of opportunity.

Jan 6, 2010 9:23 AM Buckster Buckster  says: in response to Donna Conroy

You people fail to see that this is a BLOG.  It is opinion.  It is not reporting. People that feel Don is somehow obliged to include all facts here are strangely mistaken and need to actually read up on the differences between reporting and opinion.  These blogs are clearly Don's opinion, and whether you agree with them or not he's making good points. 

The only thing "wrong" here is to somehow criticize Don for not "reporting all the facts."  Don isn't reporting and he can use whatever facts he wishes to make his point.  You can use whatever facts you wish to counter it.  That's something called a "discussion."

It's a sad state of intellectual affairs when our "internet culture" is so shallow they can't tell the difference between and blog and other types of reporting.

Jan 6, 2010 9:30 AM Buckster Buckster  says:

Insofar as the visas, they exist.  They exist because the people we vote for created them and those same people perpetuate them.  Those same people get elected every time an election year comes up.  They get elected because people choose one or two sensitive social issues or party affiliation and vote that way. 

My congresswoman is useless, voting a party line damn near 100% of the time and seems to have no opinions of her own.  My district votes for that party so much so that she doesn't even campaign!  Oh she sends a few fliers out but that's it.

We get exactly the policies we deserve.  That's the only constant about the US system.

Jan 6, 2010 9:35 AM IT monkey IT monkey  says:

You people, commenters included are forgetting the fact that large corporations (coughAppliedMaterialscough) get around the H1B visas by laying off people here in the states, hire people in the foreign countries at a 10th of the cost and then bring them over to work for a month or two at a time and send them back to "work remotely".  It isn't just India, it is China as well.  Now granted these monkeys have 2 degrees and you can't understand them in a meeting and the cultural differences and prejudice against women in the work place makes it "super fun" to work with these people.  But the company is doing this without bothering with the visa program.

I lost my job twice there.  The first time I was able to reinvent myself and switch departments.  The second, they just said thanks you are done and there was nothing to do about it.  Fine with me I was done with the "it is ok to yell environment".  But other excoworkers weren't so lucky.  They are still out of work and it has been over a year.

Until jobs are either KEPT or created in the good ol US of A there is no point bitching about the H1B visa people.  Lets face it, those employers who do hire H1B's over work those people because they know they will not complain about the work load or working conditions. (read 3 to a single cube)  Lets face it, you put an american in a cubical with 2 others we would tell them where to put that job.

Jan 6, 2010 9:57 AM WCarrington WCarrington  says:

I wonder how gracious a host the people of India would be if that country was suddenly flooded with foreigners who are there specifically to displace local workers primarily on the basis of cost.  Would there be just passive acceptance?  More like there would be rioting in the streets, physical assaults and worst.  I can't image that intellectual discourse would be high on the agenda.  I'm not advocating violence but we have a right and an obligation to push back against unfettered corporate greed and reckless immigration policies that only serves corporate interests.

Jan 6, 2010 10:26 AM Mike Mike  says:

Boycott Microsoft?  That's funny...  While they do hire many H1Bs, the companies that just ship their jobs to India rather than hire the more expensive H1Bs far outstrips the corporations who hire them here in the states.

And why just focus on Microsoft, when you know that every single tech giant hires them?  How about boycotting Apple, Google, IBM, or anyone else for that matter?

Jan 6, 2010 10:31 AM RR RR  says: in response to WCarrington

From my personal experience, the VISA system is being exploited at the cost of US workers that struggle to find jobs.  

I specialize in BI and Database systems that DO NOT REQUIRE A DEGREE in ENGINEERING to use!!!!!  Yet, why are foreign workers being used to do this type of work in this country.

It does not take a MS in Engineering to use Crystal Reports or Cognos....

I can understand the need for Google or other software companies to use the most highly skilled Engineers for their cutting edge applications, but it is not required for the remaining 75% of the IT world!!!

Jan 6, 2010 11:25 AM Much experienced Much experienced  says:

It's not racist but it IS us v. them.  Seeing it as racist is the ultimate obscuring defense.

It's really a conflict between "our" notions of individual meritocracy and their notions of collective mutual interest.  "We" compete with each other for positions, and "they" are embedded in mutually-beneficial networks of favors and such.  "We" are completely depowered because in decision after decision they will decide based on the favor network, not merit.

I have 15 years of experience working with Russians, Indians, and Chinese (each of various stripes, from individuals to the mega-consultancies) both here and remotely.  I've also seen the same in local networks of Asians and African-Americans (though I've only seen one effective Af-A network; usually Af-A's are outside of any network).  I do also see mutual protection among inept whites, but that's easily broken up with competition.  Ironically, whites get snookered because white MBA's promote outsourcing, and get themselves in a position where they are dependent on the outsource, which then expands its influence.   It happens in software whenever there is an original system that just needs to be maintained.  Look anywhere, but the best example is eBay: a longstanding but completely custom software stack.  Go there and you will find entire floors of just Chinese or just Indians, with every project having corresponding offshore components.  The problem is, if you actually do the cost/benefit, offshoring loses.  Not in the first iteration, but after a year or two of them expanding the work (like any good contract, it expands as the contractor gets more dependent on the contractee).  But the original executives have moved up the chain, and the bloat continues so long as the business doesn't fail outright.

Jan 6, 2010 11:37 AM smartarse smartarse  says:

It has always been an easy escape route to call everyone with a different (extreme? unfit for the mainstream?)or perhaps ethnically based opinion/comment racist. As a matter of fact, that abused execuse is used daily by that same segment of the population you mentionned and has been used by some passengers on airline flights. What is the issue here - a major problem really - is that the USA is the only country in the world to not only export jobs overseas but to import foreigners for jobs within the country, and I am not talking about farm-based work. The H1B/L1 programmes are widely abused by both US-based and foreign based corporations. European companies which cannot import foreign employees into the EU due to strict immigration rules use their US-based subsidiaries to do such. The only reason I can think of for US companies to import educated foreign labour is cost although someone once mentionned to me that such educated potential staff were not available in the domestic market. I find that hard to believe although I am sure some folks on this forum know more about it than I do and would be able to provide more info on this subject (shortage of experience and/or educated staff). Last, these so called temporary work visas which should remain temporary that is with the foreign employee leaving the US with a very nice nest egg after two or five years of work usually has his (sometimes her but mostly his) H1B visa modified into a permanent residence (green card) which leads to US citizenship after five years of residence in the USA. I have found this to be a way around immigration quotas allowed to each country and quite unfair to US citizens who directly or indirectly finance these visas through their taxes and purchases. How can a temporary visa be turned into a permanent residence when every politician and immigration official have promised these visas to be "temporary"? It would be nice if the federal government and the US corporations it is supposed to rule and regulate but to which it seems to be beholden would favour US citizens first and foremost before being a shelter and moneymaker for the overflow population of other countries. Finally a little aside, most needed labour in America is in the farm fields, ranches, vineyards and slaughterhouses with a willing and hard workind population right at the border who deserves a lot better treatment than what they presently receive. Why cannot these people secure temporary work visas for the harvests a la "bracero" programme of the 1940' s?

Jan 6, 2010 11:49 AM lark lark  says:

Your job as a journalist is to attempt to describe reality. The message you are getting from your readers is that the unemployment, over work, stagnant or declining wages, declining benefits, offshoring, outsourcing, H1-B, corporatism replacing representative government - is adding up to a situation that is intolerable. The message you are getting from your readers is that you are out of it and that is not acceptable.

This has been building a long time. It will not go away without some reality based policy changes. The journalists have been smoking what the corporations have been giving them. That is no longer acceptable.

Look, journalists are an endangered species. Why can't you look around at your colleagues and imagine what so many IT folk are going through?

Well I've waited a long time for IT workers to wake up from their long corporate snooze and realize they've been had.  Very sorry to see that I am right.

Jan 6, 2010 12:24 PM LarryM LarryM  says: in response to You're Right the System is Broken. Here's a Way to fix it

Rather than telling us to "Check the Congressional record sic," you should provide links into the Congressional Record that support your statements; othewise, you'll be viewed as just another no-nothing whiner who oversimplifies a complex issue by blaming it on a single corporation.

Jan 6, 2010 1:15 PM no one no one  says:

It's pretty funny that people don't understand the difference between an article and a blog post.

Feb 9, 2010 7:00 PM ET ET  says: in response to no one

Well, I'm an unemployed IT worker and there is basically no hope.  I'm on the edge of ending it all because of my inability to get a job.  Say what you will, but the simple fact is that H1B Visas have destroyed IT workers in the USA and when I decide to drive my car into a concrete wall at 100 mph it will be a  direct result of the destruction of my profession by the H1B Visa program.  I hope all of the lobbyists and politicians are satisfied and will take care of my family when I'm gone.

Apr 10, 2010 10:15 AM John Doe John Doe  says: in response to You're Right the System is Broken. Here's a Way to fix it

I agree, BOYCOTT MICROSOFT, 54 percent of the employees are from India, and I was laid off last week because I, as an American, did not culturely fit!!!!

STIOP H1B, Stop Microsoft

Oct 21, 2011 1:54 PM jeff inks jeff inks  says: in response to John Doe

People can send The Shaft to their old boss.

Simple solution and you'll feel so much better once you send it.



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