Using Lies to Foster Anti-Indian Sentiment

Don Tennant

The statement, "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it" has been attributed to Adolph Hitler, Hitler's propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels, and others. Regardless of its origin, the statement is a disturbingly fitting motto for people in this country who are determined to discredit technology professionals from India.

 

Not surprisingly, a reader who commented on my post, Beyond the IT Angle: Ethnic Cleansing in Arizona jumped at the opportunity to make the claim that "IT has had a breathtaking ethnic cleansing in the last 15 years-from white American to East Indian." Aside from the troubling inference that IT jobs in the United States are best held by white people, the statement aims to bolster the frequently repeated, albeit absurd, claim that Indians hold an inordinately high percentage, if not the majority, of computer-related jobs in this country.

 

In truth, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, as of 2008 whites held 70.3 percent of those jobs, and 15.5 percent were held by Asians, a demographic that includes Indians. It's obvious, then, that whatever the percentage is of U.S. IT jobs held by Indians, it's significantly less than 15 percent. Hardly an ethnic cleansing in which whites have been ousted by Indians, so repeating the lie is the best hope of having it believed.

 

Another disturbing claim made by the anti-Indian crowd in this country is that people from India lack technological prowess. I've received comments from readers who ridicule the skills of Indian engineers, and I recall one reader in particular who cited a bridge collapse in India to prove his point. Never mind that the collapse of the Interstate 35W bridge in Minneapolis in August 2007, which killed 13 people, was attributed to faulty design.

 

There are legitimate reasons not to be willing to accept the current state of affairs relating to IT job opportunities in the United States, including rampant abuse of the H-1B visa program. But resorting to repetitious lies as a means of validating one's argument destroys the legitimacy of that argument. I've spoken out for years about the self-defeating nature of confronting our problems with personal attacks and mean-spiritedness, but the destructiveness of those blights is nothing compared to the insidiousness of perpetuating lies.



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May 14, 2010 1:23 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says: in response to P Henry

You may want to take 30 minutes to acquaint yourself with the existence of 2 separate countries called India and PAKISTAN. All people with brown skin don't emerge from the same underbelly of the one beast you hate.

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May 14, 2010 2:11 AM Human Human  says: in response to P Henry

LOL...ya...Indian_H1B is right on. First it's stupid even to say that he (a Pakistani) used a wrong fertilizer so Indians on H-1B 'lack technical prowess'. You cant even say Pakistanis lack technical prowess because you know about this one guy who did something stupid. Are all Americans stupid like that shoe bomber?

Second, like Indian_H1B said, India and Pakistan are separate countries. They are not the same. What you are saying is like someone from Asia saying "Hey...most Americans speak Spanish eat temales and do hat dance...on wait they are Mexicans...well...they all are same...come from same part of the world right next to each other, let's say they are same"

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May 14, 2010 2:54 AM Jake Leone Jake Leone  says: in response to Indian_H1B

You are justifying this because you enjoy getting reamed.  I have lost all respect for you.

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May 14, 2010 4:03 AM Bob Bob  says:

"The statement, 'If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it' has been attributed to Adolph Hitler"

pretty good Don, you 'Godwined' yourself in the first sentence

Godwin's Law 

A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin's Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfeited  the argument.

you lose, Don

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May 14, 2010 8:15 AM P Henry P Henry  says:

Faisal Shahzad (failed Times Square bomber) came here on an H-1B visa Don.  Was he a genius?  He didn't even know the right kind of fertilizer to use.  Perhaps he should have consulted you since you seem to be an expert in fertilizer with your one sided views on the H-1B program. 

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May 14, 2010 8:22 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says:

Businessweek is carrying an article on how political mudraking in Arkansas shamelessly rips on an Indian city no-one concerned has ever been to...all for the export of 58 jobs to India. Well, assuming these Indophobes can trust their goverment enough to publish reliable numbers of export and import scenarios, all one has to do is go to census.gov and look at how much the US imports from India. The US exports about $16B to India and imports $21B. The net deficit of $5B from 2009 is much lower than $12B 3-4 years before and has been decreasing since. Could the rising consumption of American goods in India's new middle-class explain the trend. I think yes.

Now contrast this with China. The US has a net trade deficit of $225B with China!! That's 2 orders of magnitude higher. Isn't this outsourcing to India bugaboo completely overstated?

A couple of profs from the University of Maryland have just published research that 50,000 H-1Bs surveyed from 2000-2005 on average made more than their American counterparts with similar human capital attributes. I guess the US, the world's foremost economy for a century now, is making the completely idiotic choice of bringing in more expensive foreign workers to bolster its own workforce, all for zero incremental gain. How long before some of these Indophobes point out that one of the profs has an Indian sounding first name???

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May 14, 2010 8:45 AM P Henry P Henry  says:

   I've worked with several H-1B's through the years and I know they made less than the Americans (who had to train them in some cases).  Just go to this website to look up salary data on H-1B's http://www.flcdatacenter.com/CaseH1B.aspx 

   That way you don't have to rely on the cheap labor shills who can manipulate data to serve their purposes.  These same people conveniently ignore the fact that a USCIS report found the H-1B program had a more than 20 percent violation rate.  

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May 14, 2010 9:29 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says: in response to P Henry

That's the difference between anecdotal experience and statistical significance. YOU had bad experience. You are drawing your inferences based exclusively on it. THE US experiences H-1Bs on a much larger scale. Its experience is the opposite of yours.

That's the crux of empirical research. Where factors aren't deterministic, you need large scale experimentation before you can assert that something that looks like a spade is a spade.

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May 14, 2010 9:32 AM BB BB  says:

This is no lie:

Employers can legally discriminate against qualified Americans by firing them without cause and recruiting only H-1B guest-workers to replace them.  The U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) has said:  'H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of a foreign worker.'  Some companies that discriminate against American workers are so brazen that their job advertisements say 'H-1B visa holders only.'  And some companies in the United States have workforces that consist almost entirely of H-1B guest-workers.   

See: http://durbin.senate.gov/showRelease.cfm?releaseId=311910

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May 14, 2010 9:40 AM Bob Bob  says:

Don, I really don;t know what to say one this one, other than 'you're losing it'

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May 14, 2010 9:59 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says: in response to P Henry

The oft-repeated example of Americans training their H-1B counterparts needs further looking into. If I am a 35 year old American that has simply been programming in C++ for 10 years and am now facing the ordeal of training a 25 year old H-1B before I am let go, presumably, I am likely making more than what the 25 year old will get. That's the very point of that displacement; it's economics.

On the face of it, the scenario sounds evil. But the 35-year old has had 10 years over the H-1B to enhance his skills, develop laterally as well as vertically and understand both the strategic and technical aspects of what his employer does. That sounds fairly marketable to me. I suspect the people who are unable to leverage this are those that have been slacking off for 10 years.

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May 14, 2010 10:05 AM Don Don  says:

what part of this youtube don't you get, Don?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Upton Sinclair

you're 'earning' your pay, Don

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May 14, 2010 10:57 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Don

I get every part of it. That's why I've consistently spoken out against H-1B visa abuse. What I don't get is the attempt to sidestep the point of my post with a a refutation that doesn't address the point. Did you not see the part of this post that mentions rampant abuse of the H-1B visa program? I find this video as disturbing as you do. In fact, it reinforces my point about the insidiousness of using lies in support of a goal. Try to understand, moreover, that the personal attack on me, with a baseless accusation that I'm in the pocket of interests you don't agree with, also undermines your position.

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May 14, 2010 11:01 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Bob

Well, Bob, you could always try refuting my point. Give it a shot.

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May 14, 2010 11:05 AM jake_leone jake_leone  says:

The BIG LIE is that H-1b is about hiring the best and the brightest, when in case-after-case the U.S. worker is asked to train the H-1b worker. And the U.S. citizen worker (who is better if not brighter) is let go in favor of the H-1b worker.

The Secretary of Labor has said that an H-1b worker may be hired to replace a U.S. citizen, even if the U.S. citizen is qualified and wants the job.

No country on this Earth would allow such a ridiculously discriminatory policy against its own citizenry.

This idiotic policy doesn't even have a grain of capitalistic common sense. U.S. IT workers just want an equal chance to compete for jobs on U.S. soil. But companies are actively discriminating against U.S. citizens.

This (H-1b only, U.S. citizens need not apply) job add has been up for 3 months:

http://usa.lucidjobs.com/jobdetail/X5848172LD

The above ad is for a Java developer in New York City. Why must you be here on a H-1b visa in order to do Java programming? I guess "U.S. citizen" is not the right "National Origin" in order to do Java programming in New York City, USA.

It's because companies are spreading a bigoted lie that U.S. citizens are unemployable. Don't believe check out the public statements of Vineet Nayar:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/americans_are_lazy_and_unemployable_indian_ceo

U.S. IT workers just want an equal playing field in which to compete for jobs on U.S. soil. When discrimination is the order of the day, we need the federal government to act, and swiftly, to ensure that capitalism (and not bigotry) is the business rule that determines who is hired in the United States of America.

Don the lies coming from the top are part of an ethnic cleansing campaign against the U.S. citizen in the U.S. job market place.  If you want to make difference, point out the lies by public figures, who get National Press attention for their racist comments.  I give Vineet Nayar as a prime example of such a racist who has a (comparatively) massive voice and control over hiring in the United States.

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May 14, 2010 11:33 AM Human Human  says:

I just laughed at the first comment about Faisal Shahzad. What has it got anything to do with this article? Some people just look for any opportunity to speak bad about some group of people that they dont like. They carry resentment in their hearts and constantly watch for opportunities to vent themselves out. It is easy to blame others than take responsibility. There are people like Faisal in every culture and every religion holding every kinds of visas and nationality.

It's interesting the user Indian_H1B pointed out the trade deficit between US Vs India and China. It will be interesting to see how many of these anti-Indian, H1-B blaming, anti-immigrants who think they should get a job and high pay because they are entitled to it would drive a little farther, pay a few dollars more to selectively buy local made products instead of supporting the Chinese economy and increasing the trade deficit and debt. Now that is some real action and taking responsibility. Most people didnt do that, causing destruction of American industries and booming of Chinese economy.

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May 14, 2010 12:29 PM P Henry P Henry  says:

@human

"I just laughed at the first comment about Faisal Shahzad. What has it got anything to do with this article?"

  In the article Don states "Another disturbing claim made by the anti-Indian crowd in this country is that people from India lack technological prowess."  This implies that Indians on H-1B's and H-1B holders in general possess great technical prowess.  Faisal Shahzad used the wrong fertilizer which would tend to indicate that HE LACKS TECHNICAL PROWESS.

  Get it now?  If not, ask an American coworker to explain it to you (if you can find one).

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May 15, 2010 1:09 AM Tunnel Rat Tunnel Rat  says: in response to Indian_H1B

" training a 25 year old H-1B before I am let go"

WTF?  The only thing he should be getting trained to do is live in a wheelchair. 

And if you are training him to replace you, you are a collaborator.  You are buying into the lie that a newbie programmer is the same as veteran and you are just a commodity.  That is like saying a brain surgeon with 20 years of experience, perhaps an instructor at a medical school, is no better than a 25-yr old who just finished his residency.

It is a lie spread by the high-tech junta and shills like Tennant, and you are a fool for believing it and spreading it.

I hope you never find another job in I.T. and end up driving a cab, you coward.  THAT'S ECONOMICS.

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May 15, 2010 1:16 AM Rudy Torrent Rudy Torrent  says: in response to Tunnel Rat

Time to take action against Don's sponsors in the high-tech junta and the Indian outsourcing regime!

I found out today that a member of the public may request access to the LCA of a company:

All employers who sponsor H-1B Nonimmigrants are responsible for preparing the supporting documentation that forms the basis for the Labor Condition Application (LCA). The employer must be careful to meet DOL requirements for the following components:

1. Content

2. Retention

3. Availability

The employer must make the documentation available in a public inspection file within one working day after the date of filing the LCA with the Department of Labor (DOL). Any member of the public may request access to the file. The employer must make the file available to the requestor within one working day of the request.

http://www.yourimmigrationcenter.com/publicaccess.html

This is a chance to start a campaign of harassment and intimidation of companies that traffic in H-1Bs.  We as members of the public can start contacting companies and bodyshops and demand to see their LCA records.  To be effective, we need to be coordinated and work under the umbrella of a legitimate organization like FAIR.

We should start by going after the low-hanging fruit -- the bodyshops.  We make contact and notify them about the law.  Then we demand to see their papers.

We then publicize discrepancies and bogus records.  The companies HAVE to comply. 

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May 15, 2010 2:41 AM SiliconValleyEngineer SiliconValleyEngineer  says:

"Not surprisingly, a reader who commented on my post, Beyond the IT Angle: Ethnic Cleansing in Arizona jumped at the opportunity to make the claim that 'IT has had a breathtaking ethnic cleansing in the last 15 years-from white American to East Indian.'  the statement aims to bolster the frequently repeated, albeit absurd, claim that Indians hold an inordinately high percentage, if not the majority, of computer-related jobs in this country."

Actually it's true, Don is right.  When I joined the IT workforce 18 years ago, most of the engineers were white with some Asians.   But now at my current company in Silicon Valley, the Indians make up the majority (>75%).     Most of them are called employees of Indian outsourcing companies.  

A couple of months ago, the San Jose Mercury News wrote an article about how the workforce at high-tech companies have become dramatically less diversity in the last 10 years. 

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_14382477?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com&nclick_check=1

There is much less minority and women.   Well, in my opinion, they also forget to mention how fewer white engineers and non-Indian Asians as well.   Indians is now the majority of the IT workforce in Silicon Valley and they are mostly on temporary work visas such as H-1B and L-1.

If this is not ethnic cleansing, then how do you call it?

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May 15, 2010 7:15 AM Blue Blue  says: in response to Rudy Torrent

Most H1b's are LCA exempt.  If they have a fake degree from India, one of those 1 month courses that grants a 'Masters Degree' they are exempt.    Only the dumbest h1b abusers would not get an LCA exemption for their H1b's from what I can tell.  This is how the H1b program was intentionally designed to displace US workers.

Congress and the anti-middle class lobby made sure that LCA stuff was bulletproof.

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May 15, 2010 11:35 AM Chris576 Chris576  says:

I've worked with many H1B holders over the years, both from India and elsewhere.  10+ years ago visa holders were actually somewhat worthwhile, but once the great lie that they were "the best and brightest" took hold there was a flood of substandard workers that were simply cheap and couldn't even perform the most rudimentary of tasks.  I've seen this time and again at Fortune 500 companies.  Management is shortsighted and only care about the bottom line, and yet they wonder why projects never get completed...

sigh...

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May 16, 2010 1:29 AM Mark Graves Mark Graves  says:

Don,

The problem we face in America today (as you can see from many of the racist posters here) is we have too many ignorant, arrogant, bigoted racists that keep dragging us down and impeding our efforts to break out of this recession. Let us not forget that it was these insular thinking xenophobes that caused the economic mess we are in today.

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May 16, 2010 1:50 AM EngiNERD EngiNERD  says:

A  history  lessons???

Wasn't the cuurent H-1B  visas law  enacted  in 1990-91?

What did we do  before we had H-1b's 

Aren't H-1B's   primarily of Indian descent,  almost exclusively male?

Bit of discrimation    profiling  going on here????? 

Wasn't  American immigration limits,   controlled   in the years  1925-1965.

Did  that serve   the USA  quite well,   as the country without  open borders?     Wasn't  the  post  World  War   II  Boom  1945-65 good to the economy  growth    without the need for substantial immigration?

Since  1973 haven't we  seen a decline in  Standard of Living...

Could a connection  be made to  the beginnings  of   greater   immigration  ( all nationalities )    OOOPS can't go there.  Not  politically correct .   Similarly  for our schools  too!   

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May 16, 2010 2:25 AM Blue Blue  says: in response to Mark Graves

The economic melt down was caused by uncontrolled corporate greed, outsourcing, short sighted strategies for quick profit, corrupt politicians in the pockets of scandalous bankers, and an economy that is rapidly becoming based on ponzi schemes and massive deficits.  If you think some unhappy, outsourced,  worker has the type of political and financial power to create this mess you are delusional.   But keep supporting your precious outsourcing wall street bankers, walmart, BP, or whoever. Mark sounds like a right wing racist loon to me. 

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May 16, 2010 2:59 AM yoyome yoyome  says: in response to Rudy Torrent

Don't clap your hands or dance around too quick about this new LCA rule crap. Don't count on it man ! It is just only a small rule changed does not make a different unless the major changes like Arizona State or all H-1B visa scheme goes away. Corporations and Body shops will find loopholes to go around it. Crook writer like Tennant can twist back and forth as yours can see how cruelty he attached poor Bob and yours can't even deal with this lunatic €œMuhammed Saeed al-Sahaf€ imposter's. All I can say blankly, it is very much hopeless for the US IT workers unless we are all stand up to fight for our right..

Can we talk to Politician ? I would say Yes or No. Yes we can talk to good ones out there like governor of Arizona but unfortunately  most of our politicians are not like Arizona governor. In my opinion there is no such thing talking to Politicians for this matter. All I can suggest we should learn the examples from the Civil Right movement in the past. At first, the Civil Right movement did all the talks and complaints but nothing changed.  Finally the only way they changed their own destiny by standing up  and take the matter on the street.

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May 16, 2010 9:37 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says: in response to Tunnel Rat

If you had an idea for everytime you cursed something, hey, you'd have a clue by now, Mr. Clown Rodent.

Since you danced all over my point, here's a little reiteration in babyspeak.

See, the 35 year old C++ programmer, on average, is good enough that he can contribute at a much higher level than the 25-year old programmer. He can be a software engineer or a project manager. In effect, he can be counted on to recommend large sweeping changes that will create more IT jobs and more product value. Restricting himself to being a programmer is infeasible since there is no longer a market to pay him 6 digits to perform the same tasks (IT Grunt, if you will ) he was doing 10 years ago. That's simply the way it works in every single industry, even those untouched by H-1Bs. Those not getting this are unfortunately destined to be displaced and apparently amuse themselves by relegating their "enemies" to boring jobs in their fantasies.

You're one of those guys that will first chop up the guy who carries an H-1B moniker before even bothering to find out if he could be on your side. In that, I realize the hopelessless of talking to you, but then again, this is a public post that may catch less prejudicial eyes which will either agree with me or tease out valid points to counter me.

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May 16, 2010 11:32 AM yoyome yoyome  says: in response to Indian_H1B

If you said so, then I have a good question for you "Indian_H1B". 

Is H-1B Visa scheme designed to displace American workers ?

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May 16, 2010 12:29 PM jake_leone jake_leone  says: in response to Indian_H1B

I would like to hear your answer to the question posed to you.

Does H-1b displace equally (or more) qualified U.S. citizen workers?

Looks like in your case it is.

It is at least the case that your job is gone thanks to an H-1b?  And your opportunity further employment has decreased by one, thanks to an H-1b?

Just dying to see how you directly answer that question.

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May 17, 2010 4:45 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says: in response to jake_leone

As with anything else, the answer is: "It depends".

Does displacement happen with H-1Bs? It totally happens.

What percentage does it happen? I think it's at least 20% (based on the percentage of fraudulent H-1Bs apps that are filed).

What percentage of the H-1Bs do I think are truly indispensable? What countries do I think they are from? I suspect the number is around 60 - 70%. Dispensability should be determined by a sliding scale with a high threshold. Earning graduate degrees from top American schools (top 25) should allow you to score enough "points" to boost you up the sliding scale. Working in fields where unemployment % is considerably below the national average should receive more points. Higher salaries should similarly receive more points. I think the 60-70% of the H-1B that would make it based on these criteria are still heavily from Asian countries.

I admit that the 30-40% set of unneeded H-1Bs is likely dominated by Indians working for bodyshops and outsourcers.

Based on the above, should the bigots in the US be going around branding Indians as evil? NO. At the end of the day, 25000 H-1Bs that are taking up jobs that could have gone to Americans is not rocking the boat. It's unacceptable from the perspective of the immigration precedents it sets, but is statistically insignificant.

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May 17, 2010 5:45 AM yoyome yoyome  says: in response to Indian_H1B

H-1B visa workers are supposed handling the superior type of work (best and brightest) that American could not fill but in reality most of  H-1Bs I worked with are handling low level type of work. 

In my opinion H-1B is 99% fraud or I would say 99% of H-1Bs use to displace American workers. It is the fact and the sad fact.

Do you know why I say 'FRAUD' !!! because those workers suppose to be the best and brightest but turn out they are not worth as they have been told..

To Indian_H1B, do not assume everybody here is Indian hater. There are many types of people here. I am here to protest greed corporations, H-1B scheme, bodyshops and absolutely not the Indians at all. In reality, I don't afraid of those corporations but I only afraid those little rats running around spread their infected fleas like Tennant.

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May 18, 2010 10:47 AM jake_leone jake_leone  says: in response to Mark Graves

The economic down turn (Recession + lingering high unemployment) had nothing to with people's view on immigration.

It was caused by the bubble in housing prices and with some help from the spike in oil prices.

It also wasn't caused by immigrants and it wasn't caused by people who you (quite bigotedly) refer to as xenophobes.

It was caused by a confidence crisis and some large financial institutions (and manufacturing) received a huge bailout from United States government. 

U.S. citizens a bearing the brunt of the cost (and risk) of that bailout. 

Basically a classic case of privatize the wealth, communize the risk.  Wall Street should be deeply ashamed of their socialist hypocracy (and will now need to wear a tighter yoke).

The use of the term "Xenophobe" is bigotry.  It's an attempt to equate citizenship with fascism, which it most certainly is not.  Every country has an immigration policy, most (practally all) are far more restrictive than the United States.

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May 20, 2010 7:25 AM Vincenzo Vincenzo  says:

Don - That's an interesting statistic, I suppose.  But what would be even more interesting is how many STEM jobs existed within the U.S. prior to enactment of the the H-1B and L-1 visa laws, and how many STEM jobs exist within the U.S. today.  Simply saying that N% of STEM jobs in the U.S. are held today by U.S. citizens isn't saying much if there was a 90% drop in STEM jobs in the U.S. since the enactment of the H-1B and L-1 visa laws.  As indicated by BusinessWeek and other publications, the H-1B visa is currently being used by foreign companies as a way to train their workers and siphon jobs offshore.

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May 20, 2010 9:45 AM Common Sense Common Sense  says: in response to Blue

Agreed.  Ron Paul's son wants to roll back civil rights protections and the Indians that hire Indians-only are simply following the lead of those that use them.  Racism and discriminatory hiring practices are wrong in this country and no argument for protection of CEO pay will cut the mustard.  None.  Nada.  Zippo.

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May 20, 2010 9:48 AM Common Sense Common Sense  says:

"Regardless of its origin, the statement is a disturbingly fitting motto for people in this country who are determined to discredit technology professionals from India."

No, Don.  It is you that fits the determination bill.  You are determined to discredit technology professionals from America!  Examine your own writings and you will find that you are, in fact, shilling for India at the demise of the Americans (not just white guys).  Evolve!

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May 20, 2010 9:52 AM Common Sense Common Sense  says: in response to Don Tennant

"I get every part of it. That's why I've consistently spoken out against H-1B visa abuse."

Nope.  You seem to get only the part that you claim is abusive to Indians.  Your white privilege may be preventing you from having compassion for the abuses against Americans of all races.

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May 20, 2010 10:05 AM Common Sense Common Sense  says:

"It's obvious, then, that whatever the percentage is of U.S. IT jobs held by Indians, it's significantly less than 15 percent."

How were the workers who are non-employees/contractors accounted for?  Is this attempt at skewing the numbers like the comparison of .5% of Indians working in America vs the 90% of Indians working in America in IT firms displacing the Americans?

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May 23, 2010 1:05 AM Dave Gaudet Dave Gaudet  says:

Don,

I have been a regular follower of your articles and I am fan of your writing. Every country has its share of ignorant bigots, and sadly our country is no exception, as you can clearly see from some of the posters here. This is especially true during tough times like a recession - the racists and xenophobes look for the slightest excuse to point their fingers at minorities and in general people that are "different than them". Sure, there are loopholes in the H1-B visa program. Sure, there are abuses that happen. Does that mean we shut our doors to the smart, talented people from around the world? Do we throw the baby out along with the water? Instead, how about we fix the program, close all the loopholes and make the program fraud proof? Unfortunately, no amount of explaining can make these arrogant bigots understand how we stand to benefit from skilled people coming to our country and contributing. So, I wouldn't evern waste my time trying to explain to these racists, since they are bereft of any intellligence.

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Jun 9, 2010 5:55 AM Mike Mike  says:

You can site all the GOVERNMENT stats you want Don - from the same government that is taking money from US-INDO-PAC and from NASSCOM (probably like you are).

But if you actually go to Silicon Valley and look around you'll see that except for Apple (which is booming by the way), nearly all companies hire a majority of Indian workers. White American IT workers are a tiny minority. It's also very amusing to note that CA's economy is in collapse right now with Indians running Silicon Valley while it was booming out of control when white Americans were running it 12 years ago.

Apple CLOSED its R&D center in India in 2006. Apple hires mostly American workers and designs all of its products in the USA. Go to WWDC this week and see how many Indian presenters you see there. The stock's at $250. Meanwhile, Microsoft which employs over 35,000 Indian H-1Bs is dying. Their stock's at $28. Which do you prefer Don?

is it racist to say that black people make better NBA players, on average, than whites? No it's not. Is it racist to say that Germans and Japanese make better cars than everyone else? No, it's a fact, Don.

The fact is, IT was created by 98% white American males. India's delusions of taking over the IT industry have proven to be a colossal failure, as CA's economy is now showing.

Take a flight out to SFO Don and look around at the color scheme. There are hardly any white people because all the people there are flying in to take jobs in Silicon Valley.

You can't deny reality Don. India, Inc. has had 12 years to keep Silicon valley going and it has failed miserably. Face facts.

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Jun 9, 2010 6:00 AM Mike Mike  says: in response to Mike

You'd also better check Title 8, Section 1182 of Federal law, Don. That law says ALL foreign workers are INADMISSIBLE ALIENS if they adversely impact the wages or working conditions of Americans, which Indian workers obviosuly are. You're not in favor of violating Federal law are you Don?

The fact is, these workers have taken over IT and won't hire Americans. Don't say that's because Americans are too supid because we crated IT. India didn't lift a finger to create IT. In fact, all they have done so far is destroy.

Are you better off than you were in 1998? If you're an Indian worker wanting a free job in America created by someone else, you are. But if you're one of the Americans who created IT and now finds himself out of work, you're being punished for being too successful.

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Jun 9, 2010 6:01 AM Mike Mike  says: in response to Mike

Another great video that lays out the facts, rather than the hype:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Vx3CGc-5Y

Don, it's India, Inc. that is lying - lying about their skills, their degrees, and about their ability to innovate and keep the economy going as promised.

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Jun 9, 2010 6:13 AM Mike Mike  says: in response to Mike

Oh - and about Hitler Don. You'd better check this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/22/hitlers-mein-kampf-seen-a_n_190064.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/5182107/Indian-business-students-snap-up-copies-of-Mein-Kampf.html

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Jun 9, 2010 8:11 AM Mike Mike  says: in response to Mike

Oh and here's another page Don:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article818379.ece

How many non-Indians do you see in that photo? Only one Don - and he's training his replacement - from India.

Sorry, but the gov't numbers are a huge lie and now you have proof.

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Jul 30, 2010 5:54 AM James James  says: in response to P Henry

So was one of the 9/11 hijackers. He was here on H-1B and worked at a software company in Silicon Valley, Don. "He was such a nice guy" all of his co-workers said.

Why do you and others insist on national suicide, Don? Do you really hate the USA that much? Do you really want to see your outdated communist hippie ideals of the 60s implemented so badly, Don?

Give it up. Millions of 3rd world workers who hate Americans are flooding into the U.S. and are deliberately denying jobs to U.S. citiens, which is illegal under Title 8, Section 1182. IT'S THE LAW DON. You're not in favor of violating Federal law are you Don?

If you want to talk Hitler, then you need to go research why Mein Kampf is now the best-selling business book in India currently. The new Nazis aren't in America - we're just trying to defend our country. The new Nazis are in Asia and a suicidal maniac like you wants to let them all in.

Self-preservation is not the same as suicide.

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Jul 30, 2010 5:58 AM James James  says: in response to Indian_H1B

It's not just outsourcing - the 10 million or so Indians who are in the USA denying jobs to extremely skilled Americans. Nazism at its finest. Indians cannot even make India work - what makes you think Don, that they can do anything but harm America. Why don't we import people from Germany and Japan - countries with proven track records of engineering excellence.

As for that ONE bridge collapse you mentioned, that was the rare exception. Bridges and buildings fall down in India nearly every week because their engineering is so bad.

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Jul 30, 2010 5:59 AM James James  says: in response to Indian_H1B

H-1Bs on a large scale? You must mean like on the scale of the biggest recession in 70 years after millions of Indians cleaned out Silicon Valley, Wall St., and Detroit, in that order.

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Jul 30, 2010 6:03 AM James James  says:

So Don, why is it ok for Indian nationals - especially high-profile ones like Azim Premji and Vineet Nayar to go around spreading lies about Americans but it's not ok for those same Americans to expose the truth about India, Inc's epci fail in the U.S. economy?

Why don't you do a story about all the slander and malicious lies Indians are spreading? Where do your loayalties lie Don? To America or to communist countries like India?

I'd like to see even one article by you exposing the other side of the coin instead of constantly defending India. You must be one of the journalists paid by NASSCOM or something.

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Jul 30, 2010 6:11 AM Mike Mike  says: in response to Don Tennant

Ok Don, I'll refute your point: A 2007 ILO/UN study said Indian workers are ranked 54th in world productivity and American rankers are ranked #1. India's workers are ranked behind workers from nearly every African nation, Guatemala, Ecuador, and all south American companies. Personal experiences (including mine) from millions of experienced American IT workers being forced to train their foreign replacements DOES indicate that Indians do not have the technical skills that Americans have. If they did, we wouldn't be training them. TRAINING THEM DON. What part of TRAINING don't you get? India has one of the worst track records of engineering on the planet - they couldn't even make usable steel until 1) we sold them all the scrap steel from the WTC wreckage, and 2) they bought Europe's Arcelor who trained them how to. Not to mention one engineering disaster after another in India.

Add to this the fact that since these people have literally taken over Silicon Valley, the CA economy has gone into a tailspin and the CA gov't is going BANKRUPT. Companies and jobs continue to be lost yet people like you keep claiming we are lying about it.

Clearly the empircial evidence says these people are nowhere as skilled as Americans are in IT.

When Americans were running Silicon Valley 12 years ago, the econ was booming. BOOMING DON. Now that those Americans have largely been pushed aside and Indians and Chinese have largely taken over Silicon Valley (just go out there and look if you don't believe me), we have a huge deficit.

That's not a lie Don, that's a FACT. America was much better off when Americans were working in these jobs.

Keep arguing for the continued importation of 3rd world labor and watch as your country continues its slide into oblivion.

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Jul 30, 2010 6:15 AM Mike Mike  says:

Hitler's Mein Kampf Seen As Self-Help Guide For India's Business Students

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/22/hitlers-mein-kampf-seen-a_n_190064.html

If you want to root out Nazis Don, you're looking in the wrong place - they're all in Asia - and it's the white man they want to exterminate. Stop helping the enemy Don.

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Jul 30, 2010 6:24 AM Christ Christ  says:

Hey Don,

Why is it a FACT (not a lie) that Amazon.com won't ship any products to India? It's because India is so corrupt that the shipped products all get stolen at the post offices in India and never reach their intended recipients.

If a country is THAT corrupt, do you really expect their people to not play games when they come here? Games like taking jobs that do not belong to them and lying on their resumes and degrees and unable to do the work?

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