Third Infosys Whistleblower Flags Illegal Workers at Client Site

Don Tennant

The attorney for Jay Palmer, the Infosys employee and whistleblower whose civil suit alleging visa and tax fraud spawned the U.S. government's ongoing criminal probe of the company, has revealed that a third whistleblower has stepped forward to report that Infosys employees here on B-1 visas were working on a project at a client site.

 

As I reported in my post, "Second Infosys Whistleblower Documented 'Illegal' Activity, Pleaded for Action," earlier this month, the second whistleblower had a background in immigration matters and was working in Infosys' human resources department. Now Mendelsohn has released the information that there was a third whistleblower, a U.S. citizen who is an Infosys manager working in the United States. This manager filed the whistleblower complaint on June 7. Here is the full text of the complaint, with certain information redacted to protect the whistleblower and the criminal case against Infosys:

To whom it may concern,

 

It is with much regret that I must submit this issue. While working on the [COMPANY NAME REDACTED] project, we have had a significant number of people come and go from India to work on the project. These folks were here to assist with testing and other project needs based on their specific skill set. At the time, I had no understanding of Visas but with the recent escalation of Visa concerns, I am now more versed. I am aware of the following resources that came to work at [COMPANY NAME REDACTED] on B1 Visas:

 

[NAMES OF FIVE INDIVIDUALS REDACTED]

 

This concerns me as I am a US citizen and do not want to get into trouble with my government. Also, I do not want to lose my job over this matter. Additionally, there have been other co-workers that have traveled here from India to work on the [COMPANY NAME REDACTED] project over the past year that I have been with Infosys. While I believe they had/have the correct Visa, I do not know for certain:


 

[NAMES OF 12 INDIVIDUALS REDACTED]

 

I hope this issue is resolved with no impact to my fellow co-workers or myself. Please let me know if you have any questions. Regards, [WHISTLEBLOWER'S NAME AND TITLE REDACTED]

Mendelsohn has made it clear that he will continue to release information that substantiates Palmer's veracity until Paul Gottsegen, Infosys' chief marketing officer, apologizes to Palmer for branding him a liar in the wake of Palmer's testimony to a Senate subcommittee on immigration reform last month. He said he was releasing this whistleblower complaint now because Gottsegen has yet to apologize.

 

Mendelsohn also said that he did not want to disclose the names of the known and possible B-1 visa holders listed in this whistleblower's complaint, because they are potential witnesses in the U.S. government's criminal case.



Add Comment      Leave a comment on this blog post
Aug 25, 2011 2:24 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

"Oh what a tangled web we weave,When first we practise to deceive!"

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Aug 25, 2011 3:43 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says:

Now is where a few people that have followed this thread say something like "Now there are three liars!".

Don: "To whom it may concern, It is with much regret that I must submit this issue. "

Don, I have a serious problem of you not redacting the name of "whom it may concern".  You have no right!  What about whom it may concern's children?  LOL. 

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Aug 25, 2011 3:53 AM chm chm  says:

"Mendelsohn has made it clear that he will continue to release information that substantiates Palmer's veracity until Paul Gottsegen, Infosys' chief marketing officer, apologizes to Palmer for branding him a liar in the wake of Palmer's testimony to a Senate subcommittee on immigration reform last month." ~

You are pretending after some questions raised around how you get these information but nothing you are getting after someone called liar or not. You have been totally in touch with Palmer's attorney from very beginning so what changed now. SO stop pretending like you suddenly started taking extreme measures after Infosys did something very bad with you. You 3 are same team for long now.

Moreover I don't know how Palmer's attorney himself getting these information? Is every whistle blower copying Palmer every time?

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Aug 25, 2011 3:55 AM Chamat Chamat  says:

Is your blog the only medium for Mendelsohn to communicate with Infosys or is it being released or discussed somewhere else as well. If this is the only medium then I doubt if it would be ever heard or taKen seriously. As you already mentioned that you tried contacting infy but got ignored everytime.

Best way to asked infy to appologise is by filing a defamation case with proper evidence (if at all something exist).Leaking good for nothing information to public is not going to help in anyway!

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Aug 25, 2011 4:03 AM chm chm  says: in response to Chamat

Its okay with Palmer's attorney sharing something from their angle to Don and Don is writing about it here.

Where I'm confused is how come Palmer or his attorney knows all these on first place!! Unless they have any published forum where all list of whistle blower's cases are listed which is unlikely.

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Aug 25, 2011 5:03 AM VM VM  says: in response to chm

Unless all three of them are a part of the same case represented by the same attorney on a single suit, what is being supplied here is a clear case of misappropriation of data belonging to the company. It is a clear violation or crossing the line.

If the whistleblowers are submitting to the attorney representing palmer's case, he cannot use this as an evidence as it has nothing to do with Palmer. He is not fighting class action!

What is surprising is that there is a lot of information which is company confidential that is being released on blogs. Is there way that Don or his employers providing this forum/blog protected from being sued by Infosys at anytime after this case is closed for disclosing company confidential information and breach of corporate regulations. I am curious and I don't know so I dont want Don's army to jump on me for being curious.

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Aug 25, 2011 6:16 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to VM

"Unless all three of them are a part of the same case represented by the same attorney on a single suit, what is being supplied here is a clear case of misappropriation of data belonging to the company. It is a clear violation or crossing the line."

And you got your law degree where?  You believe that a whistle blower complaint to the government is somehow "company confidential"?  Are you kidding me!!!!

I can't take anything you say seriously.  I'm impressed at how with each reply you trump your last reply with something even more absurd.  It just boggles the mind.

Do you really care about this case or are you just having fun acting silly?  Your comments are downright bizarre.

"Is there way that Don or his employers providing this forum/blog protected from being sued by Infosys at anytime after this case is closed for disclosing company confidential information and breach of corporate regulations. "

Journalists in this country are protected to the ends of the Earth.  Freedom of press is key to the success of our democracy.  If Don released information he knew was not true and his intention was to harm Infosys they may be able to sue him for libel.  To do that they need to prove he knowingly lied with the intention of harming their company.

Can you name one thing Don has released relating to this case where you believe he is lying?  Really guy, find something legitimate to complain about.  You're reaching for something every chance you get.  Once information makes it to a journalist - even classified information or "company confidential" information - they are almost always able to publish it.  This is democracy 101 stuff so I'm a bit surprised your are bringing this up.

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Aug 25, 2011 6:48 AM contra band contra band  says: in response to R. Lawson

Don,

Infosys mail replies to the whistleblowers complaint seems civil and adhering business communication etiquette. Can Mendelsohn release some evidence of the retaliation which Jay alleged he received after he filed his whistleblower complaint, e-mails from infosys.

Because he can file a criminal complaint on this and its surprising that has'nt happened so far, and that might be where some of the exaggerations and half truths are mentioned in the company's reply.

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Aug 25, 2011 7:12 AM chm chm  says: in response to R. Lawson

"And you got your law degree where?  You believe that a whistle blower complaint to the government is somehow "company confidential"?  Are you kidding me!!!!

I can't take anything you say seriously.  I'm impressed at how with each reply you trump your last reply with something even more absurd.  It just boggles the mind.

Do you really care about this case or are you just having fun acting silly?  Your comments are downright bizarre." ~

Clearly you don't understand what is "whistle blower" and "complaint to the government". Did you really understand this post?

I can try to make it simple for you. Don here is talking about 3rd whistle blower? How on earth Palmer's attorney can know about this detail?

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Aug 25, 2011 7:18 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to contra band

What Mendelsohn chooses to release is entirely up to him. As far as retaliation goes, the cruelest retaliation of all is benching him. On April 4, Axis Capital, the client site where Jay was working at the time, dumped Infosys because of the allegations. Jay hasn't worked since. He's a highly-skilled, very knowledgeable professional with a driving desire to implement technology, and he's been forced to sit on his hands for over four months because, despite Jay's repeated pleas, Infosys won't put him on another project. He draws his base salary, but his remuneration is tied largely to performance bonuses, and they're depriving him of the chance to perform. He just has to sit. All Jay did was summon the courage to do the right thing, while others caved. That's it. And yet he has to suffer the indignity of having been shunned and treated as an outcast. They're not reimbursing him for his expenses and just doing everything they can to make life miserable for him. Then there's the verbal harassment. That will be proven when those who subjected Jay to it have to respond to questions about their actions under oath. Now that they have also publicly branded him a liar without offering a shred of evidence that anything he has said is untruthful, the retaliation has gotten out of hand.

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Aug 25, 2011 7:22 AM dip dip  says: in response to R. Lawson

Its you behaving like a brainwashed extremist who is believing each and everything here like gospel.

Just think twice how your behavior is here. When did you discuss much logically rather than supporting and saying same words again and again?

What is your problem if someone doesn't agree with Don. Why do you start jumping like this everytime?

"It just boggles the mind." - your mind? You don't use it. Otherwise you'll discuss what others are asking rather than blabbering same thing again and again.

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Aug 25, 2011 7:38 AM dip dip  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don,

Here is another comment from someone (handle was nik) which looks like a co-worker of Palmer.

Now I don't want to change your or your follower's mind, but what if someone keeps an open mind and thinks either way? What's wrong if someone thinks these are true. You really have nothing to prove rather than claims:

I think someone who has more sensible approach towards this case will see it as a neutral person. Unlike what Lawson claiming above "Do you really care about this case or are you just having fun acting silly?". It is people like them who is acting silly and won't even listen to anything which they don't like.

www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/tennant/contract-cancellations-add-to-infosys-us-problems/?cs=47973

nik :

"The reasons for this lawsuit are 100% monetary (with a dose of the classic 15-minutes of media fame since this cause will attract followers in plenty). There has been issues with his performance in almost all clients, they have all said he adds no value in actual project work, has zero subject matter expertise (beyond generics), next to nothing in terms of product or functional knowledge and the sole skill has been wining/dining with clients, getting really high on a regular basis and making self-righteous statements about his commitment & dedication after such bouts. Having seen some of his powerpoints on his achievements, I was shocked to see him shamelessly taking complete credit and then stretching the dollar values of projects for which he has had absolutely no contribution, but was part of mail chain at some point."

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Aug 25, 2011 7:43 AM jim jim  says: in response to VM

"I dont want Don's army to jump on me for being curious." ~

LOL

Captain America already did. Wait for more.

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Aug 25, 2011 7:59 AM VM VM  says: in response to R. Lawson

I will answer to each one of your statements Roy Lawson or R.Lawson! It is now personal till the time you publicly apologize for calling my statement silly - Sounds familiar huh!!! though that is not my intention or I need as I am least bothered what you think.

Quote - And you got your law degree where?  You believe that a whistle blower complaint to the government is somehow "company confidential"?  Are you kidding me!!!!

Answer - Dude seriously, you are reading this and thinking that this a whistle blower and to government. This is internal whistle blower stuff... you dont need a law degree to have common sense or is that what you need? As long as it is internal it is company confidential and that is 101 of privacy.

Quote - I can't take anything you say seriously.  I'm impressed at how with each reply you trump your last reply with something even more absurd.  It just boggles the mind.

Answer - Just because you are not in agreement it is mind boggling or rather you dont understand what it is and hence mind boggling. Choose one as there is no other way to this.

Quote - Do you really care about this case or are you just having fun acting silly?  Your comments are downright bizarre.

Answer - Your jumping up and down like a three year old on sugar high does not make my comments bizzare. If you have your way, I am entitled to mine. Now if you think otherwise believe it or not that is bizzare.

Quote - Journalists in this country are protected to the ends of the Earth.  Freedom of press is key to the success of our democracy.  If Don released information he knew was not true and his intention was to harm Infosys they may be able to sue him for libel.  To do that they need to prove he knowingly lied with the intention of harming their company.

Answer - Read what I said. I am curious about Don's protection. Now someone quoted that Don is not a journalist and he is just a blogger and he is entitled to his opinion. Was that you or some one else. You do not have to teach me democracy and freedom of press as Don is not an investigative journalist but he is the platform for some one to release evidence against the company in question. You cannot post anything quoting freedom of press.

Quote - Can you name one thing Don has released relating to this case where you believe he is lying?  Really guy, find something legitimate to complain about.  You're reaching for something every chance you get.  Once information makes it to a journalist - even classified information or "company confidential" information - they are almost always able to publish it.  This is democracy 101 stuff so I'm a bit surprised your are bringing this up.

Answer - I am not being judgemental until the matter is resolved. I can empathize but not biased. Like I said if you are journalist and it is the freedom of press then the story has to be published as is. Not what Don thinks here. Don is posting his opinion that means he is blogging.... Understand journalism 101 first before preaching democracy 101.

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Aug 25, 2011 8:01 AM VM VM  says: in response to jim

Yeah. I see so.... People dont have an open mind to read what is being said and that is so ridiculous. It is what he likes to hear and typical toddler.

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Aug 25, 2011 9:11 AM contra band contra band  says: in response to Don Tennant

Infosys can show plenty of people who have been on bench for more than a year, which is a fact of IT services industry. Its true, these folks careers are impacted on a short term. I am more interested in the alleged death threats to him and his family and verbal harassment's. Any one actually subjected to this in the US, will file a criminal case as these things are serious allegations and the government takes a stern view on these matters. They will investigate and bring the offenders to book. So the lack of a criminal complaint makes these serious allegations of retaliation rather exaggerated. 

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Aug 25, 2011 9:32 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to dip

Ya,ya,ya...it's his performance on the job...LMAO.....So easy to blame his performance....

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Aug 25, 2011 9:34 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hireamerican

Do you mean to say like we use to blame every problem in US is because of Indians...

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Aug 25, 2011 9:37 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to VM

Roy already bought snake oil sold by Don...no matter how hard you try he is not going to accept Don could be wrong.

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Aug 25, 2011 9:44 AM ITJob ITJob  says:

Don, finally you released one blog with zero names in it.

See still you followers (not readers) believe you and Infosys didn't claim you are a liar...this is what I was trying to say...there is no use in exposing the names in the email. If it is legitimate email and you have it means Infosys also have the same email. They can verify text of the email excluding names and easily confirm it is legitimate.

Even if Infosys claims you are liar...who cares...your followers will not buy that story.

Of all your blogs on Infosys...I like this one because of the way it was published... (content only what public needs to know...who cares if this is email sent from Don to John or John to Don).

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Aug 25, 2011 9:56 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to dip

Dip...good you got that comment from 'nik' here....

But we cannot consider everything said in comment section as true (like someone claimed he got reached to finalist in 5 jobs...in this bad ecomony)..we have to take with some grain of salt...

Out of all his comment this section I agree 100% on this...no one with reasonable education would do such thing in India and that to Palmer claim he heared is what discredits his whole story.

"One can say many things about folks in Infosys, but culturally Infosys (and Indians - definitely the educated ones - engg degree & above) has the upbringing and manners to respect one another. Name calling like "stupid american" or "christian" have NEVER happened and I can say with fair bit of certainty will never happen in the future as well, but such statements definitely add a bucket-load of spice to the story igniting the readers with revulsion - all hate speech everywhere works exactly like this (remeber Hitler & the Jews, remember Darfur & the Christians etc).

With 20+ official languages, 800+ unofficial languages (not dialects mind you), several races, 6 major and 15 minor religions - 4 of them having originated in India, 1000s of different festivals, dances, musical forms etc., pluralism and acceptance of the other is an existential necessity in India, firmly woven into the psyche of everyone. "

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Aug 25, 2011 9:58 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to VM

"As long as it is internal it is company confidential and that is 101 of privacy."

You are actually wrong.  If the information is newsworthy, it can be reported, as soon as it is learned.

That's why companies try to bind individuals to non-disclosure documents, but the re-numeration is always limited to something monetary or some other kind of property.  (Do you understand the difference between a Civil Lawsuit and Criminal Indictment?).  InfoSys has no claim against Don for reporting information he recieves, he entered no such non-disclosure agreement. 

InfoSys might have a claim against Palmer, but it is very likely that a jury will decide that the public's right not know supercedes any non-disclosure document.  And further, to get any kind of award, InfoSys will have to prove monetary damages.  Monetary damages do not include, damage to your ability to defraud the government and having to pay resulting tax-liability and fines, so in this case it very likely some trivial sum will be awarded (like one dollar), if InfoSys should win the case. 

Congressman have been asking for a long time for more accurate information (such as what is being provided by the whistle-blowers at InfoSys).  So there is definitely a need for the public to know this information.

Look I am not a lawyer, I ran a business though (for 10 years) and became very aware of the law in the process so that I could assess risk of entering into various contracts and tax liabilities.

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Aug 25, 2011 10:03 AM ITJob ITJob  says:

Best part of todays blog is

"Mendelsohn has made it clear that he will continue to release information that substantiates Palmer's veracity until Paul Gottsegen, Infosys' chief marketing officer, apologizes to Palmer for branding him a liar in the wake of Palmer's testimony to a Senate subcommittee on immigration reform last month. He said he was releasing this whistleblower complaint now because Gottsegen has yet to apologize.

Mendelsohn also said that he did not want to disclose the names of the known and possible B-1 visa holders listed in this whistleblower's complaint, because they are potential witnesses in the U.S. government's criminal case."

So, we as a public get to see all these only because of Paul Gottsegen, otherwise it is out of public view. I would say kudos to Paul Gottsegen rather than to those blackmailers.

Mendelsohn better release everything you got...anyway they don't seem to care for you or Palmer...what are you waiting for...more money...better release it to public and we will take care of the rest.

We got big Jury team here...Roy, Hireamerican,Sealteam6, Wakjob,Job4us...they will weigh in the evidence without any bias and declare who is wrong and what penalty will be.

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Aug 25, 2011 10:13 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to ITJob

I wonder what you would say about sites like The Drudge Report and The Smoking Gun that for over a decade have released and scooped everything from a Presidential affair to Donald Trump's tax return statement. They have posted stuff that is far beyond anything posted here and are continuing to do so. Should they be shut down ?

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Aug 25, 2011 10:22 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

This is not politics and the names released are not politicans...If you are politican then you have to open your personal details because of the nature of the business (ya..now it is pure business).

Now you could have learned if you don't do your job you won't get paid...based on that policy now corporate america asking polician to do the job they are suppose to do (work for corporate benefits)

news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/starbucks-ceo-says-100-businesses-withhold-campaign-donations-155827913.html

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Aug 25, 2011 10:30 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to ITJob

Don and I have had many disagreements in the past on a variety of issues.  I'm not a "Don Fan-Boy" who will blindly agree with anything he says though I respect his reporting - even when we don't agree on what he reports/blogs.

On the Infosys matter, the evidence is mounting from multiple witnesses and this is just the information that has been shared publicly.  Originally when this story came out some of you immediately attacked Jay's integrity and/or motives.  Shortly after Infosys publicly called him a liar and essentially said that he was just trying to bleed them of money. 

Then a second witness was reported.  Still, the attacks on Jay continued. 

Now a third witness, and the response has not changed.

Just recently Paul McDougal (a person I rarely agree with who is almost always pro India-incorporated) reported this issue.  That is another journalist from another publication.  Why aren't you guys attacking that messenger also?  There have been more than a few industry publications reporting on this issue yet you focus your attention on Don's blogging. 

Although Don is following this story closely in his blog, it does not get the same distribution as the magazine itself or the distribution that other journalists are getting in their print editions.  So do I think ITBusinessEdge is overdoing this story?  No, in fact I don't think the issue has been covered enough outside the context of blogging.  This is a front page story and it is being relegated to the blog section. 

I find the assault by supporters of India Incorporated quite astounding considering how little coverage this is getting.  You've literally got to search on "Infosys Fraud" or "Infosys B-2" or some other specific criteria to locate the story as a top result.  Searching on just "Infosys" requires you to scroll down to find any mention of this case.  Infosys should consider themselves lucky.

In fact after seaching ITBusinessEdge for "Infosys" in *NEWS* articles I found just two in 2011 - none of which relate to the visa fraud issue:

"Infosys on Hiring Spree in U.S."

"Lawsuit Against Infosys Claims Age Discrimination"

So if anyone should be complaining it would be people like myself who believe this story deserves above the fold and front page attention. 

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Aug 25, 2011 10:32 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to ITJob

They have both posted articles and leaks that have nothing to do with politics. Check their archives.

(BTW your grammar is extremely hard to follow so I'm not going to bother with the rest of your babble )

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Aug 25, 2011 10:34 AM VM VM  says: in response to Jake_Leone

So who decides it is newsworthy. This is not a news site nor Don as news man. It is a blog and I am saying that he is influencing the minds of people to look at Infosys emotionally. I think there is a problem there. Not sure if you see the difference.

further when the matter is in court releasing what is called evidence is not appropriate either. See one is guilty only when proved.

Congressmen asking for info has nothing to do with this. It is 2012 elections in mind. They can get info from the agencies which I dont know why does not happen.

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Aug 25, 2011 10:44 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

I have no interest in Politics (that too someone of no interest to most)...

And thanks your decision to not bother with rest of my babble..because you are no use to anyone here...

Funny....you think some useless comments from you is so valueble and I am going to kill myself if you don't comment...

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Aug 25, 2011 10:55 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to ITJob

Whatever man... Actually an issue involving a foreign outsourcing company and business visas does very much involve politics. In case you missed it, it involves governments and politicians as well as corporate political lobbying for said business visas..

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Aug 25, 2011 11:20 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to R. Lawson

Wake up Roy...you wanted news (specifically bad news) about Infosys every moment in your life.

And since you already disconnected cable connection (which is reason for many cable guys getting laid off )....your brain asking you look for spicy news which is not everyone in the world looks for.

Infosys fraud will become big news when it complete full course in the court...not in Don's blog.

As I use to tell for sometime...Don's blog is of not a great source of IT news...but for sure great source of spicy news about Infosys.

Why are you showing so much rush in passing judgement on Infosys? my guess is Don..nothing else.

Palmer could be right or may be not....whole world is waiting for the court case and criminal investigation to complete instead of jumping into conclusion based on some blog.

Don's blog should feed you some additional information on the fraud case...if it feeds you every information thats when you get wild and start name calling everyone who disagree with Don.

Since you got into topic of popularity of Don's blog...

Why did Palmer's attorney choose Don for publishing evidence he got? And when he decide to use only Don then there is no other media get to know about this.

If it so spicy and hot news why main stream media jumped in for this spicy news?

Do you think main stream media was not as smart as Don?

Those questions are not for you to answer..just for your thinking on free time...

I worked in search engine (mostly targeted google) analysing projects couple of years back...my understanding (no one can claim 100% accurate other than the search engine company)...

To be visible in google search that particular blog has to be read by bot.

Usually that happens every day or based on popularity of the site.

Popularity is based on number of people visit the page..and just buy few (less than 50) visiting a blog doesn't make it to popular list.

Number of people try to search for particular content will also trigger the search engine to read site/blog and to my understanding may be less than 50 people would have tried to search specifically.

And the main thing is ITbusinessedge is not that popular site in US as per alexa.

People visiting ITBusinessedge in general don't expect this kind of news...

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Aug 25, 2011 11:37 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says:

Who are the smartest guys in the room defending their employer, Infosys, and why must they continue their quest to beat down this case in the court of public opinion on this blog?

It is quite obvious, and frankly amusing, to see these blogger drones selflessly let every American blogger know that the illegal use of B-1 visas to replace American citizens is perfectly fine.  They, not stupid, fat and lazy Americans have all the answers to everything.

I guess their real mission is to provoke Americans and gather as much intelligence as they can to help the Infosys defense.  Wow, Infosys must be desperate.

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Aug 25, 2011 11:56 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says:

Ah! the mudslinging has started. Can we just hold off on all the nonsense talk and just talk this out rationally? Let's just wait and see what all gets released. If Don does something illegal, I'm sure infosys with all their money can sue this website and Don so let's leave that up to the courts.

Another question - can the guys critical of Don confirm if they work in Infosys? I'm guessing that since Don seems to be the only person releasing these scoops, Infosys is closely monitoring this blog. If they are, then they should get some good PR guys and present some rational arguments. But if they're really smart. They'll just ignore this blog to avoid the attention.

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Aug 26, 2011 1:30 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

It is interesting to read the comments by other Indian tech workers on the Times of India page regarding the Infosys case:

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/software-services/H-1B-fraud-Infosys-employee-to-go-to-court/articleshow/9439879.cms

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Aug 26, 2011 1:40 AM SS SS  says:

Don,

Why ain't you responding to what I had to say about the 2nd case you mentioned in your previous blog. Did Palmer's lawyer tell you that the person was on B1 or was it you who added it to create a story. Could you please be kind enough to tell us just this. It will atelast clarify one thing. Either you are a Liar or Palmer's attorney is being plain stupid to be using such falsified information to fight a case.

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Aug 26, 2011 2:03 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to SS

I typically don't respond to insulting comments, but I'll make an exception in your case. Mendelsohn has proof that the individual you're referring to was here on a B-1 visa. If that were not the case, I would not have written that he was here on a B-1 visa. Your suggestion that I would make something up to create a story is terribly insulting and unwarranted. Don't do it again.

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Aug 26, 2011 2:35 AM chm chm  says: in response to Don Tennant

Yes SS is wrong in a sense that his assumption on extension is only on h1 and l1. In this case there is no reason to not believe you that person is really on B1.

However how exactly entire case has anything wrong in it? SSN office often makes extra investigation on something which delays processing. Same happens with USCIS visa processing, some guys get it some doesn't. In entire episode you never gave full picture what exactly happened there? Someone called Manning who is lowest in chain of HR and doesn't understand much just questioned to others for more explanation. Your reader's don't understand these half truths you tell here and they just assume something from your half-siad reports. 

Your effort is to get every possible incident in Infosys and assign it to palmer case. If you get real details you might find 50 Infosys employees got their visa extension rejected. This is business as usual for these outsourcing companies. But somehow if you get any such cases you will jump on to link it with palmer case. Go stand in JFK or Newark international terminal you might find an infosys employee returning to India because something went wrong with his/her visa status and report back here saying Infosys is in trouble because I wrote bla bla bla on my report dated xyz.

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Aug 26, 2011 3:18 AM Chamat Chamat  says: in response to Don Tennant

"Your suggestion that I would make something up to create a story is terribly insulting and unwarranted"

It may be insulting but you have to agree that you are exaggerating if not making the news. From common sense once can say that these are not any evidence for any wrong doing, its just one of those several queries which HR might be answering to its employees every day.

I am still waiting for something which I read here before I get to know from mainstream media. Unfortunately I haven't been lucky so far, as the reports which are actually 'NEWS' are there for everyone a day before and if it comes here first then it also becomes the last place where it would ever appear.

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Aug 26, 2011 3:35 AM SS SS  says: in response to Don Tennant

And aint we supposed to know what are those proofs you are talking about. Let me give proof to support my understanding of this case. The below part is from your previous blog which u calim is part of the mail sent by the employee to Manning.

"I landed in US on 12-Aug 2010 and I-94 was expiring by 10 Oct 2010. Since the expiry date was very near SSN was denied for me and they insisted that I need to return to their office after I receive the *******extension of petition******* & I-94 document."

If you see the part higlighted with *, it cleary says extension of petition. Now since when did B1 have a petition associated with it. Any one with even the basic knowledge on Visas will understand this. There is no need for any bigger proof to show that he was here on an H1 or L1. If you think otherwise the onus is on you to proove your claim. Else one would consider what you have told as a lie, and i don't see why should one take this as an insult. If I make some baseless claims and if someone esle points it out to me, I will not consider it as an insult. Infact no sane person would do so.

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Aug 26, 2011 5:00 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to SS

That's another insult. Strike two. One more and you're out.

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Aug 26, 2011 6:41 AM VM VM  says: in response to Don Tennant

Dear Don, There is no point taking as an insult. Mistakes do happen. I do agree SS was a little harsh in the way he points out to things and so are many people on this board. When another reader does that against some one else you are quite. R.Lawson's reply to me is also an insult. But there is a point. B1 Visa does not have a petition and is a visa issued by the consulate. It has nothing to do with petition extensions as far as my understanding goes. I really do not see what is wrong in raising that with you. This is food for thought unless you have consulted other immigration attorneys who specialize on a large scale. Going by just what Mendelsohn said is plain naive.

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Aug 26, 2011 8:53 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to jobs4us

I don't see any reason to assume everyone who stays middle line are Infosys employees....like lot of other misinformation you have this is another one...

"I guess their real mission is to provoke Americans and gather as much intelligence as they can to help the Infosys defense.  Wow, Infosys must be desperate. "

Day by day your getting better in making jokes....seriously you have no knowledge (I can't use intelligence for you...) about anything but pretending like providing great info for Infosys defense.

By the way you provide nothing but some useless assumptions and your opinion nothing more but lot less....

Palmer attorney is only person providing whatever information he got to defend his client...the reason he gave for releasing those was really funny...and the media (Don's blog) he had choosen is so cheap/unpopular and expect Infosys to come down...shows his credibily or knowledge on anything.

May be Palmer should have use better attorney to put his case safe and strong...rather with this guy who keeps releasing everything which dilutes the whole case.....and Infosys gets enough time to write story around all these releases.

Anyway few decided to pass judgement and few decided to wait for the case to finish its course....

Whoever pass judgement are doesn't have to be Americans and whoever decide to wait are not Infosys employee...if it so hard for your understand then I am not sure how you can understand anything from Don's blog.

Please no more Intelligence from you....we had enough fun for the day.

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Aug 26, 2011 9:53 AM VK VK  says: in response to Don Tennant

Touchy Touchy Don. SS has a valid point!

Your blogs are increasing starting to read like a Tom Clancy / Jefferey Archer novel. State facts and don't insinuate that Infosys is guilty. The law is very clear - Infosys is innocent until proven otherwise. Your blogs read like you are the judge, the jury and have pronounced Infosys to be guilty. Why don't you try and be a true journalist and look at both sides of the case. I'm sure you can come up with an intelligent point of view from the other side as well - it will take an effort. You may have to speak to people from the industry, from other companies and try to get their perspective as well.

Also, I am surprised that you expect Infosys to respond to YOUR query.  You honestly can't expect that a company of their size and scale to  respond to all kinds of bloggers - which is what you are and maybe that would be the reason why Infosys' peers arent talking to you as well...food for thought.

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Aug 26, 2011 9:54 AM VK VK  says: in response to VM

Very valid comment

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Aug 26, 2011 10:06 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to George Alexander

Im guessing most are from smaller outsourcing shops who are terrified of the increasing attention on B/H visa violations. These companies would fold pretty quickly if brought to court.

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Aug 26, 2011 10:19 AM jake_leone jake_leone  says: in response to VM

In California, all bloggers are news people. 

The fact is no one can decide who is a reporter and who isn't in California, the California courts have refused to rule on what a "Journalist" is, therefore if you post newsworthy information (which this is) then you are a journalist, in California.

"further when the matter is in court releasing what is called evidence is not appropriate either."

That is just your opinion. 

The first amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press, so Don has the right to release this information.

In my opinion, releasing this information is entirely appropriate and very newsworthy and important to my ability to form an opinion on how to vote.

The fact that Congress has been asking for this information for years, and not receiving it from either the government or from the companies involved is appalling. 

The government record keeping on the Visa system is a disgrace.  Further several times the agencies involved have admitted huge accounting errors (such as letting tens of thousands of more people in on the H-1b than allowed by law).

Frankly, companies do a better job keeping track (for accounting reasons) of their visa'd workers than the U.S. government.  Making companies report this information as part of the Visa programs is extremely sensible, and would help Congress administer needed changes to the system as well as protect all of us from criminal and terrorist activity.

If you want welfare, and the H-1b program is corporate welfare, you are subject to disclosure, so that we can keep our people safe.

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Aug 26, 2011 10:26 AM Su Su  says: in response to R. Lawson

"In fact after seaching ITBusinessEdge for "Infosys" in NEWS articles I found just two in 2011 - none of which relate to the visa fraud issue:" -->

Don't you think that is the normal thing to happen? If there is nothing going on day to day basis then why to create a fake news everyday as today's breaking news? That's the whole point.

Remember the senate hearing day or when Infosys called Palmer liar? Whole world knew a day before Don could copy paste from other news reports. If nothing is going on who will put unnecessery triggers in their reports like Don as long as they have other things to do.

I personally don't get much excited with these as I totally understand what's going on here. Neither I get happy for Palmer as if they have a upper hand against Infosys after reading these reports, neither I feel Infosys is getting strong in the case anyway. Just wait on watch.

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Aug 27, 2011 1:11 AM SS SS  says:

Don, I have always been saying this right from the time you posted your previous blog..Either you or Palmer's lawyer is lying. If you didn't, then he did. You say he has got proof.. then why don't you show it to us. Till then all odds are against you. There is no point in saying you don't like being called liar unless you can prove otherwise. Right now all evidence goes against you..

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Aug 27, 2011 1:49 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to George Alexander

Or it's like my wife's friend who is a doctor that runs his own clinic and helps poor people by giving free treatment - a poor illegal immigrant family was desperate for some assistance. After he helped them, they sued him..... and he lost!!! (something as stupid as this would not happen in Texas!!!).

Like the saying goes, "no good deed goes unpunished". Yeah, I always find it a curiously nihilistic aspect about that segment of the voting public who support flagrant illegal immigration. Maybe some oddly misplaced idealism ? They just land up creating a lot more distrust and enmity for themselves in the bargain, especially in this downwardly spiraling economy.

As regards police asking for immigration status. That's always been a controversial issue. I guess immigration is considered a "federal" legal status and not for states to regulate and maybe the activist judges also do not want a draconian Gestapo style "papers please" state police force.

One thing is certain, there will no victory for either side. The race to the bottom continues. To use another cliche "the road to hell is littered with good intentions".

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Aug 27, 2011 5:08 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to George Alexander

Well...it may be a good school in India, but it cannot compare to schools in the US. Why were folks that went to B schools here not recruited? Why did they have to bring him all the way from India? They have to look for talent here in the US. They can only fill a position if there is a shortage of talent here, but the Indian companies routinely bypass US resources and do as they wish.And, that is the problem!!!

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Aug 27, 2011 5:39 AM Dolores Dolores  says:

Well, Don, now you know what it's been like for us American labor activists over the past decade plus. A small army of commenters has followed us around, with a set of reasons why American IT workers deserve to lose their jobs and why they deserve to take them from us, and they post at every opportunity. They insult us every chance they get, and you have had a small taste of that here. 

They are backed up by organizations such as Nasscom, with deep enough pockets to hire serious lobbyists which is partly why the protections in guestworker visa laws have been either toothless, unenforced, or both.

In your case, their patter is new and has not settled into a pattern yet, but in our case it became quite predictable after a few years. They would trot out a standard set of accusations against us and claims of superiority for them, over and over again. At one time, one of their hotheads actually proposed that they track down our real life identities, get us fired, and even get our degrees and certifications revoked. There are enough fools and collaborators on our side that most of us were nervous enough to stick to pseudonyms online.

We are dealing with people who desperately want to defend and continue the Great American Job Grab no matter what, and they will be sure to identify and deal with any opposition. If they could unseat every one of us, take over our society, and push us out to reservations or a hobo life, that would be just dandy in their view. I've actually seen them discuss this online, and why we have it coming.

Keep up your present course, and you will likely see some scary manifestations from them. My sympathies to you; you're in for a wild ride if you don't let yourself be intimidated by them.

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Aug 27, 2011 6:04 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to Dolores

"We are dealing with people who desperately want to defend and continue the Great American Job Grab no matter what, and they will be sure to identify and deal with any opposition. If they could unseat every one of us, take over our society, and push us out to reservations or a hobo life, that would be just dandy in their view."

well, that pretty much was globalization back in the 70s and 80s when it was forced on 3rd world countries.

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Aug 27, 2011 6:10 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to Dolores

Dolores,

The US government totally supports them. We are fighting a losing battle.

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Aug 27, 2011 6:28 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hireamerican

To be fair, it does seem that the US government is trying to fix the loopholes. Hence, TARP rules, the tighter visa restrictions, large number of Requests For Evidence (RFE) and denials. The closure of some body shops is also positive. Depending on how this case goes, we'll also get an idea on how serious the US government is.

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Aug 27, 2011 6:38 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to George Alexander

George, I do not give a rat's patootie for these 'tit-for-tat' arguments: saying we forced globalism on them, so they have the right to trash our lives now. I don't buy that. I care about my country and my childrens' and grandchildrens' future. That concern is what motivates me. These 'revenge' arguments obscure the fact that it's not the past victims who will benefit from the present manifestation of globalism anyhow.

Plus, these arguments (and I've seen many in cruder language) show clearly their hostility towards us: they are not here to help us and they don't mean us well, so why the heck are we letting them come here? We should be throwing hostile foreigners out. That's just common sense.

The foreign workers need to go home and fix up their own countries. That is what they need to do, not rob us because they feel entitled. And we need to throw off all their arguments like water off a duck's back and fix up our country. And the only thing that will do that is to get Americans back to work making and doing things.

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Aug 27, 2011 6:54 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to Dolores

>>That is what they need to do, not rob us because they feel entitled.

That's the problem with you - they're not "robbing" anyone when they play by the rules. If illegal - yes, you can call it robbing. If legal - what're you talking about? no foreigner who is here legally is doing any "robbing". You have something against ALL foreigners forgetting that your own country, as a foreigner, has in the past and still continuous to be  engaged in in-the-face "robbing" and plunder of so many countries and millions of lives. Talk about pot...

If you don't want foreigners to come here - get your government to stop or restrict the visas by making laws, close loop holes etc. Until that happens, don't hate foreigners who work within the framework of the law. The impression from your posts is that all foreigners are here to "rob", "steal" etc as if it's inherent in their nature.

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Aug 27, 2011 7:07 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to George Alexander

I'm going by what they have said to us and amongst themselves. Their attitude towards us is not healthy for America. Restrictions on their access to our society have modestly begun and can be expected to escalate now that America as a whole is in the soup job-wise.

To them, our law is play-doh and they rely on our inability to enforce what few laws we have. Do you have any idea how many H-1B overstays there are? Neither does USCIS. Do you have any idea how many H4s are working? How many more Tri Valley Universities there are besides the few that have been busted? The outrages just go on and on.

The saying 'rules are made to be broken' could have been invented by them. They play by the rules? I disagree - they play WITH the rules.

We could overlook this in the past when America was prosperous. But we can't afford our past naivete these days. We need to get our own house in order, and a decade of guestworkers has not helped. We can see that clearly now.

You can keep your arguments about America's misbehavior. We're not listening to guilt trips. We can't afford to any more. You are saying that America should submit to suicide because of her wrongdoings. Americans can be counted on to disagree.

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Aug 27, 2011 7:32 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to Dolores

>>Do you have any idea how many H-1B overstays there are? Neither does USCIS.

This should be easy to find out - USCIS has the validity date of every visa and I-94 card information that is handed to foreigners when they enter the country. Why is this not being scrutinized? Because you have a whole immigration liberal vote bank that is trying to legalize illegal immigrants here so much so that it's illegal for cops to even ask the legal status of someone during an altercation.

>>Do you have any idea how many H4s are working?

No. Do you?

>>How many more Tri Valley Universities there are besides the few that have been busted?

Yes. Get them busted. Generalizing everyone is irrational and pretty phobic.

>>The saying 'rules are made to be broken' could have been invented by them.

Once again, you show your nature of dislike for all foreigners by stereotyping them. Maybe your lack of knowledge in your own history is the reason for this self righteous attitude and disgust to everyone else. This was a quote from Douglas MacArthur, an AMERICAN General who commanded the Southwest Pacific theatre in World War II and was also Chief of Staff. As people affected by the American empire know too well, this policy was amply demonstrated everywhere else in the world too. 

They play by the rules? I disagree - they play WITH the rules.

Then fix the rules. Do you play "with" the rules too? How do we know????

>>You can keep your arguments about America's misbehavior. We're not listening to guilt trips.

ah! yes, forget what we do because we're America!!! We can do whatever we want to the rest of the world and preach to them on how to behave!

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Aug 27, 2011 7:43 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to Dolores

Dolores, fix the government and everything will fall into place.

Look at this public profile:

www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=18489629

This is someone who has completed a three year commerce degree, in India and worked in HR for a year in some obscure company. Then, he moves to Cognizant and works for them in a recruiter capacity for three years at which time he is moved to the US Cognizant recruiting operations.

How did a three year commerce graduate from India move so high up the hiring chain? It's our government stupid!!!

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Aug 27, 2011 8:01 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hireamerican

>>How did a three year commerce graduate from India move so high up the hiring chain?

The only reason why I would think that this is not as easy as it sounds is because he is from SIMS (Symbiosis Institute of Management Studies) - this is one of the best in the region and country. Graduates from here are known for exceptional aptitude and are quickly sucked up by firms and placed in demanding roles. They quickly go up as they take on more challenging roles. Apart from that, he has enough work experience to be a key player and seems to be in a management position. In some Indian companies, if you're in the right team .i.e, Hardwork gets rewarded with more responsibilities due to more demand in critical work.

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Aug 27, 2011 8:34 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to hireamerican

Meanwhile, solidly qualified and experienced Americans were shown the door. I run into ex-IT Americans everywhere. Working in a bicycle shop. Measuring my son for a graduation suit. Attending a beading workshop. Inspecting homes for sale. Breathtaking displacement has happened to competent, highly skilled Americans.

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Aug 27, 2011 8:45 AM DONE WITH INFY DONE WITH INFY  says: in response to dip

employee on a project at Baker Hughes which I was a part of. I worked for Jay, he was my manager. I am not saying I liked Jay because it was 50/50. Although I do respect him as he stood up for a female employee and I am the same. Jay and I both gave a statement that hurt "Nik" and Infosys. The female employee has left Infosys and is suing the company. Others gave statements too. Nik has since sent a similar email to my Indian supervisor claiming I am incompetent.   As for Jay's claims, the ones at Baker Hughes are true. I have talked to DHS and the State Department and they were interested not only in B1 but the talent level of H1B. Actually the questions were "Could Americans Citizens done this job?"  What hurt Infosys was Jay hired American contractors to come in with H1B's failed at Baker Hughes? I told the investigators this information. 

As for Jay, he is honest but an ass, however he  "delivered". The comments about poor performance is wrong, Jay bragged about his going to India for the Actionize meeting and being on the front page of "Sparsh" for delivering at Baker Hughes, but he still was arrogant and an ass. Maybe it was the pressure, but he treated the Indians well and expected less from them than he did the rest of us (Americans). That infuriated me! Don,  I know you will contact me as you did NIK as he bragged, about getting an email from you. I can't talk to you because Palmer told HR about NIK's comments.

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Aug 27, 2011 9:00 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to DONE WITH INFY

"Could Americans Citizens done this job?" You bet. That's who used to do these jobs.  That's who built up America's tech professions to the point where other people wanted in.

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Aug 27, 2011 9:42 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to DONE WITH INFY

Interesting. It looks like for once the crucial questions about the H & B visa workers are being asked by DHS and DoS , i.e are these visa workers actually worthwhile hiring when Americans are available. Of course the answer is obvious to anyone actually working in the industry today... the foreign visa workers are not worth the costs in failed projects and dodgy paperwork.

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Aug 27, 2011 11:10 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to Dolores

Well said Dolores!

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Aug 27, 2011 11:41 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to George Alexander

Let's rein in Infosys B-1 visa bloggers' insults to Americans, their naive interpretations of American law, history and politics to avoid facing the hard facts of this case. 

Bottom line: 

IF Civil and criminal courts find Infosys guilty of B-1 visa misuse, deportable felony offenses, based on fed investigation and evidence from three whistleblowers

THEN, Infosys, its employees, B-1 visa holders, and conspirators (that may include its clients)  are subject to fines, jail, and deportation.

End 

Makes zero difference if you're the smartest or the dumbest person in the room, the law is the law.   Break the law, face the consequences.   

Sources: US Visa Fraud Sec 1546; INA: ACT 237

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Aug 27, 2011 12:21 PM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to jobs4us

>>"IF Civil and criminal find Infosys guilty of B-1 visa misuse, deportable felony offenses, based on fed investigation and evidence from three whistleblowers"

I don't care two hoots about infosys and other lousy companies like it. I hope whatever illegal activities they've been doing gets exposed and get penalized for it so it sends out a clear message. If these companies really want to be multinational, they should hire local applicants wherever possible.

>>"THEN, Infosys, its employees, B-1 visa holders, and conspirators (that may include its clients)  are subject to fines, jail, and deportation."

Will that include my parents, my brother and his family and many of my other relatives who come here for vacation every year on a B1 visa?

And your wishlist is a joke but understandable since every ounce of whistle blower news brings out an emotional high from those who live in utopia. No one is going to get deported and no one will go to jail. Your government can't even deport illegal immigrants who protest outside court right in front of police. How will that happen when there is a sizable chunk of the voting population who will fight tooth and nail against it. And recently, the courts struck down a bill that would have allowed cops in Georgia to ask (yes, ask) people their immigration status. Or it's like my wife's friend who is a doctor that runs his own clinic and helps poor people by giving free treatment - a poor illegal immigrant family was desperate for some assistance. After he helped them, they sued him..... and he lost!!! (something as stupid as this would not happen in Texas!!!).

In the real world, Infosys will get fined, a few managers here and there will be fined too, the company and other companies will be scrutinized more when applying for visas  and the visa process in general will be overhauled. USCIS will make it a lot more harder for blacklisted companies to get any sort of visa processing done. That's the best you can expect. If anything more than this happens, consider that as a bonus. And clients? nothing will happen to the clients. Clients are totally independent of the visa process. It's like when Lou Dobbs, the big blah blah blah of immigration, didn't even know that the landscaping company he "outsourced" his gardening to had sent illegal workers to his house to do the lawns!

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Aug 27, 2011 12:54 PM Chamat Chamat  says:

But his question is still not answered. Having problem with something is not the solution. Then what could be the reason of saying:

1) B1 visa holder got extension of his petition, when we all know B1 visa dont have petition? 

2) HR questioning how salary was processed without SSN, when we all know its quite possible and legal

Both these points are from your blog and nothing has been manipulated or changed to force my opinion on others.

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Aug 28, 2011 1:34 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to George Alexander

Must have hit a nerve.  My comment was directed to Infosys. If proven guilty in a court of law, Infosys and its web of conspirators, by violating US law:

TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 75 - Sec. 1546. Subsection 1546(b) makes it a felony offense to use a false identification document, or to misuse a real one, for the purpose of satisfying the employment verification provisions in 8 U.S.C. 1324a(b)(b) Whoever uses-(1) an identification document, knowing (or having reason to know) that the document was not issued lawfully for the use of the possessor,(2) an identification document knowing (or having reason to know) that the document is false..

Fines and PenaltiesShall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 25 years

INA: ACT 237 - GENERAL CLASSES OF DEPORTABLE ALIENS (iii) of a violation of, or an attempt or a conspiracy to violate, section 1546 of title 18, United States Code (relating to fraud and misuse of visas, permits, and other entry documents), is deportable.

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Aug 28, 2011 1:51 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Su

"Don't you think that is the normal thing to happen? If there is nothing going on day to day basis then why to create a fake news everyday as today's breaking news? That's the whole point."

There were several points in this story where a news article was justified.  First, when it first became known that a case was in the works.  Second, when the government began their own investigation.  Third was when Infosys called Jay a liar.  Fourth was the testimony Jay submitted to the Senate.  Fifth was the revelation of witness #2.  Sixth was the revelation of witness #3.  All of these were newsworthy and should have became full-fledged news articles.  Maybe not each of them were front page but they certainly deserve attention in the traditional media. 

The three time periods that I think should be reported prominently in the media are the initial lawsuit, the government investigation/grand jury, and the Senate testimony.   3 major articles there, not 0.  And also a hand-full of less significant or followup stories.

If the grand jury comes back with cause for Infosys to be charged with corporate crimes, that most certainly should be front page news.  This becomes our industry's Enron case.

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Aug 28, 2011 7:34 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to R. Lawson

I have a feeling it will be more like the Walmart case....Infosys will settle for some chump change, just as Walmart did.

money.cnn.com/2005/03/18/news/fortune500/wal_mart_settlement/

Them outsourcers have deep pockets and very powerful lobby firms on their side :P

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Aug 28, 2011 9:56 AM jobs4US jobs4US  says: in response to hireamerican

Let's hope that justice is served and the court system enforce law and penalties without exception -  and penalize foreign corporate influencers.

Americans need to VOTE out elected officials blinded by greed, fraud, and abuse who violate their fiduciary responsibility to represent WE THE PEOPLE,  Not Infosys, Cognizant, Nasscom, or Microsoft. 

Make sure your elected officials know that we insist they support upcoming bi-partisan legislation from Durbin/Grassley to close loopholes in H-1b visa laws.

Today H-1b laws allow employers to legally discriminate against Americans and exclusively hire foreign citizens with ZERO need to EVER consider an American or a job in their own zip code. 

Non-supporter incumbents must be voted out sooner not later.

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Aug 29, 2011 1:01 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to ITJob

yep...that right..it shows how much knowledge you have...

abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/politics&;id=6359976

"I will set a clear goal as president: in ten years we will finally end our dependence on oil in the Middle East," said Democratic Presidential nominee Barack Obama.

"We import two-thirds of our oil now and the only way we can become independent is shut down industry and tell people they can't drive, tell people they can't fly," said Professor Sweeney.

Who is lying here...is upto you...it is you or all other Americans.

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Aug 29, 2011 1:03 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to hire american

Not to lose focus on the free education issue....

There are 5500 engineering schools in one state alone in India. The US elected officials think they are the best and brightest, and eligible for H1b visas.

Most of these Indian graduates get free education past high school level. They get free education in college as well. The US graduates simply cannot compete in a system that is rigged by their own lawmakers that benefits foreign graduates in every which way.

www.aponline.gov.in/apportal/departments/departments.asp?dep=03&;org=26&category=about

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Aug 29, 2011 1:06 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

100% pure lie...so no use in insisting the same.

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Aug 29, 2011 1:08 AM ITJob ITJob  says:

Now you know why the elected officials by your vote is not working for you :P

You are worrying now is because of your vote for those elected officials...?

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Aug 29, 2011 1:17 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hire american

I went through the link and it is very intersting and makes me very jealous.I was from a neighboring state different from this one.My state was under communist control for a couple of decades and this stifled university growth and businesses.Human capital was leaving the state since the 70s and even though the communists were kicked out in late 90s through elections, the state never recovered from the brain drain that started way back and lagged behind our neighboring states.People like me went to a neighboring state to pursue higher studies and get a masters in engineering.

From the link:

"The goal of the department is to ensure better opportunities for the poor B.C's to utilize educational facilities, to eradicate poverty, and eliminate current inequalities that prevent the Backward Classes form realizing their full potential thus establishing a just and egalitarian society.

Objectives

To increase access to education to persons belonging to BC Communitites.

To provide quality education to meritorious BC Students pursuing studies at prematriculation Level.

To promote higher education and impart quality education on par with general students.

To reimburse tuition fees.

To provide coaching facilities to eligible BC Students."

This is pretty commendable and impressive.I already knew that many states had scholarship programs for poor households and backward classes but I didn't know that it was this good here.Also note that there is selection criteria through an entrance exam which is highly competitive and the admission is purely through merit.

Castism is a form of racism.These scholarships and programs are India's version of affirmative action.

The Indian system of education and general family tendancies places very high importances on science, math and medical studies.Arts and professional sports for example, are looked down upon.Due to social pressure, suicide rates among students is pretty high in India (my friend suicided in 11th grade because he flunked in Physics).Every poor and middle class family in India knows that if their children get quality education, they have a good chance at making it big since India is attracting a lot of investment and companies are setting up shop there.I knew few friends back in Bangalore who were in IT and also from families that were pretty poor.One of them comes from a family of farmers.He used to study under candle light and street light and finally got through the entrance exams to get an admission in engineering with scholarship.He now works on VLSI and microprocessor testing at AMD.I have a few other stories like that which I actively try to find out.People can poo poo the poor quality of english, poor infrastructure, lower standard of work and unethical examples (bad apples also want to jump on the band wagon) but the fact is, there is a sizable productive population that causes companies to want and setup shop in those regions because of the availability of skills.If the quality wasn't there, the market would correct itself as it has to a certain extent (eg, failed call center offshoring, failed IT projects that were brought back leading to businesses maturing their processes and improved vendor management)

With my limited observation, I've noticed among friends that it is the kids of immigrants (mainly Indian and Chineese) that pursue STEM or medical studies (harder for scholarship, more expensive fees) while it is very common for me to find native American kids major in history, teaching, sports management (less expensive fees). Reply

Aug 29, 2011 1:17 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hire american
Parents of immigrant kids (India .i.e) generally take ownership of their kids till they graduate while American kids are free to do anything after they finish senior school.Like I said, this is my limited observation over here.

The lack of borders because of the internet is a big disruption from how things were 12 to 20 years ago.If American parents are concerned, they should worry about education in a global context.I think they should ask their politicians on what they're doing to get American kids ready to compete from kids in the developing world who are studying hard to get those jobs despite the limitations in those regions.

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Aug 29, 2011 1:41 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to George Alexander

I definitely know what you are talking about....although my parents lived in West Bengal due to my father's work, us kids continued to live and study in AP for the very same reasons you mention.

"Also note that there is selection criteria through an entrance exam which is highly competitive and the admission is purely through merit."

On that, I would like to point out that pretty much every student that applies can get into engineering school since there are 5500 enginering schools in AP. I have seen ads by engineering schools offfering admission to any rank since they can never fill all of the slots.

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Aug 29, 2011 1:42 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

Not worrying....strategizing to elect those who will put Americans first!!!

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Aug 29, 2011 1:48 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to George Alexander

"One of them comes from a family of farmers. He used to study under candle light and street light and finally got through the entrance exams to get an admission in engineering with scholarship. He now works on VLSI and microprocessor testing at AMD. I have a few other stories like that which I actively try to find out"

It used to be that the US would allow the likes of those that you mention to immigrate...they truly are best and brightest....

But now, the flood gates are open..and that is the problem. We see H1bs taking every kind of job, even admin assistant jobs!!!

And not to mention those that come on F1 student visas that take cash jobs like babysitting, gas station and cashier jobs at ethnic stores!!

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Aug 29, 2011 2:07 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to ITJob

There are many causes of unemployment, and as every businessman will tell you, there are many reasons a business can fail.

Unfortunately, we have to tackle all the problems one-by-one.  They can't be addressed altogether, this would violate causality.

In this forum we are tackling the problem that occurs when 2 economies mix too quickly.

Many people have this Darwinian view of economics, the weak should die to make room for the strong.  But this is not how business actually works.  Darwin's principle accurately describes business failure, not business success.

(I believe Evolution is true, but I do not worship it.)

Business works on an opportunistic model, you see an opportunity and you make use of it.  To do that you have to risk the capital to create a zone where workers, tools, and materials can come together to do the work that is needed to create the product.

This is very different from Darwin's principle, which takes place in an environment where risk has no identifiable consciousness.  Evolution is not about choices, it is about mistakes resulting in many (many, uncounted billions of, deaths). 

So if you worship Death, go for Darwin's principles, they'll serve you well in your own personal Hell.

Corporations, governments, produce the cloister-product, which is not the product of death, but the product of the conservation of consciousness.  This anti-Darwin (I am not anti-Darwin, but we need to be able describe a concept that sometimes eludes science, compassion) method is actually how products are created. 

Great products are the result of an entire humanity-based society. 

Now is the time to watch the children scoff and the adults come together.

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Aug 29, 2011 2:23 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

"I definitely know what you are talking about....although my parents lived in West Bengal due to my father's work, us kids continued to live and study in AP for the very same reasons you mention."

Now we know why you are so much worried about Fake resume and lies...you just want to makesure no one else get your job in US the way you got yours. And...is that fake resume was the reason you got fired and replaced with another immigrant. Every Indians know how most people (not all..) from AP reach US (very reason USCIS deny visa for most from AP) and believing everyone follows the same logic (" Snakes follow the way of serpents").

"On that, I would like to point out that pretty much every student that applies can get into engineering school since there are 5500 enginering schools in AP. I have seen ads by engineering schools offfering admission to any rank since they can never fill all of the slots."

Do you know to continue the scholarship you have to be clear all papers every semester...just to makesure only best and brightest continue. And it is not easy to graduate engineering if you are not a bright student (compared to other kids).

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Aug 29, 2011 2:41 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to George Alexander

The problem with most examinations/reviews of this kind are that they result in a stereo-typed assessment of people by origin. 

And that is always wrong.

Terms like "while many", "most" are (by there own meaning are inaccurate, and are best used in debates about trends, not in debates about people or opportunity based areas such as business hiring.)

Which are matters of conscious choice.

Look Visa's are a government program, the U.S. has had a controlled entry program for 150 years.  InfoSys and other outsourcing companies are benefitting greatly from U.S. government visa programs. 

Programs that don't exist, and would be political-suicide, if enacted in India.

There are many problems that result when our (the U.S.) economy mixes too quickly with other economies that are running more slowly (and by slow I mean more low wage labor-oriented versus high wage capital-machinery oriented).  The main one is that the only way money can make it back into the United States is in the form of Treasury Bills. 

Making government debt, the only way you can get money back in to the country, because you refuse to trade fairly and hire fairly (by the law, and U.S. visa law is more than fair, it ridiculously one-sided in favor of outsourcing companies) is a big problem.

This is creating an inherently unstable situation and trade always suffers during instability (unless your talking about trading bullets, bombs, and missile strikes).

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Aug 29, 2011 3:10 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to Jake_Leone

"There are many causes of unemployment, and as every businessman will tell you, there are many reasons a business can fail."

This time it is purely due to housing bubble burst...with the help of financial institues greed.

I don't want to go on and on to explain the reason why immigration is not the reason of current unemployment. But I can agree immigration is one of the reason unemployment (only applies to IT field)  is not going down.

"Unfortunately, we have to tackle all the problems one-by-one.  They can't be addressed altogether, this would violate causality."

One-by-one..? which one you take 1st to handle...based on individuals interest or individual industries interest?

Unfortunately government can't resolve big unemployment problem by focusing on one issue of one industry.

Visa is not wide spread issue in all industry...it is issue in IT and that too one of the issue not the only issue.

Government in general focus on industry which created this big issue and contributed the most for the issue. In that sense this bubble and burst of housing and financial industry which caused the big unemployment is their main focus.

You can expect to look this small (when compared to 14million unemployed) issue at first but to get re-elected every one in politics wants to look at the industry which created and can (as per their view) solve this problem.

That is why government created TARP and funded (from thin air) $1Trillion to solve it. Unfortunately it didn't and now they got to answer why $1Trillion didn't solve it...and do you think they are going to focus on this issue as top priority....I doubt it...

"In this forum we are tackling the problem that occurs when 2 economies mix too quickly."

This is the smartest possible way you can marry totally two different things to validate your point.

What is immigration and visa fraud has to do with "2 economies mix too quickly" ?

When we speak about immigration and visa fraud where does your "labor-oriented versus high wage capital machinery oriented" argument fit...when the visa fraud is fully related to IT field..(no machinery other than your brain and notebook involved here).

I would say your "labor-oriented versus high wage capital machinery oriented"  by itself not valid in current standard of manufacturing industry. Simple reason is, if a person in US can make 100products using a Machine for the cost of $1000...a chinese can produce same 100 products using the same machine at the cost of $100 (classic example is IPhone...you need only basic knowledge to assemble a iphone...where most of the electronics item gets manufactured by machine).

Rest of your theory stuffs may or may not apply based on which topic you speak...it has nothing to do with immigration.

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Aug 29, 2011 3:26 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to Jake_Leone

"Making government debt, the only way you can get money back in to the country, because you refuse to trade fairly and hire fairly (by the law, and U.S. visa law is more than fair, it ridiculously one-sided in favor of outsourcing companies) is a big problem."

I don't think you can be right when you say "U.S. visa law is more than fair, it ridiculously one-sided in favor of outsourcing companies"...

Here is the list of companies and H1b visa count for past 10 years which not mainly into outsourcing business (I excluded companies doing only outsourcing and companies on which I have less knowledge)

Microsoft - 27100+ ranks #1 in visa usage

IBM         - 13700+ #3 in visa usage

Oracle     - 9200+  #5 in visa usage

Intel        - 7600+  #6 in visa usage

Citigroup  - 6600+ #12 in visa usage

Cisco       - 5200+ #13 in visa usage

Motorola   - 5700+ #15 in visa usage

JPMorgan  - 4900+ #23 in visa usage

Goldman   - 4800+ #24 in visa usage

To my understanding the reason for unbalance is US corporates has less to offer (with the price range) to other country...and US is running based on consuming from other country where as rest of the world runs on selling goods and services to US.

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Aug 29, 2011 3:38 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

Well....you admit every Indian H1b resume is a fake one!!

Not only are the immigration laws stacked against the American tech worker, the fact that H1bs pass around fake resumes effectively removes the American tech worker from competing for jobs in their own country.

I also know how the exams are conducted in AP....most corporate colleges help the students cheat during the exam, and when an invigilator happens to come for an inspection, the students are tipped off ahead of time. So much for passing the exams :P

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Aug 29, 2011 3:49 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

"I also know how the exams are conducted in AP....most corporate colleges help the students cheat during the exam, and when an invigilator happens to come for an inspection, the students are tipped off ahead of time. So much for passing the exams :P"

wow...this is news to me...so what else you did to get Visa to US. I think you can write book on how to cheat in studies and get US VISA from you own experience/expertise !!!.

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Aug 29, 2011 3:50 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

When are you packing up you bags to West Bengal ? so that one American can get your job. Lets start this clean-up from you.

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Aug 29, 2011 4:11 AM jake_leone jake_leone  says: in response to ITJob

"To my understanding the reason for unbalance is US corporates has less to offer (with the price range) to other country...and US is running based on consuming from other country where as rest of the world runs on selling goods and services to US."

I think we pretty close to agreement on this. 

Except that I know the U.S. is also a product exporting nation. 

We are not a nation of hedonists, which many would like to quite bigottedly insinuate.

Except that there are high tariffs for U.S. goods in many countries (for example China).  Further, you can't get a Visa in India unless you are make around 12x the per-capita income.  Both amount to a ridiculous tariff on the ability of the United States to sell goods in either country.

Further, the U.S. visa programs were never meant to be used to remove millions of U.S. jobs.  Which is exactly how they are being used by foreign outsourcing companies.  And if you look at the heavy U.S. users, IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, these companies have been using the Visas to offshore millions of their U.S. jobs as well. 

The U.S. government Visa programs have been used to destroy the U.S. government tax base, which is ironic and ridiculous at the same time, and would be political suicide in any other country where people have to work for a living.

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Aug 29, 2011 4:16 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to jake_leone

The ironic upside down way the law works in the US is that a 12 year old's lemonade stand can be shut down for not conforming to the law. Yet multi-billion $ violations of job outsourcing are merrily flying under the radar. Something about Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burned comes to mind.

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Aug 29, 2011 4:41 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

The kid across the street operating a lemonade stand does not have high powered lawyers and well paid lobbyists working for him/her, unlike the outsourcing companies.

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Aug 29, 2011 4:47 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to hire american

Again, Not to lose focus on the free education issue in India....

There are 5500 engineering schools in one state alone in India. The US elected officials think they are the best and brightest, and eligible for H1b visas.

Most of these Indian graduates get free education past high school level. They get free education in college as well. The US graduates simply cannot compete in a system that is rigged by their own lawmakers that benefits foreign graduates in every which way.

Time for the US members of Congress to start supporting the US youth by providing free educational opportunities in STEM fields. If a third world country can do this for it's citizens, why not the US?

www.aponline.gov.in/apportal/departments/departments.asp?dep=03&;org=26&category=about

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Aug 29, 2011 4:49 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to hire american

And therein lies the crux of the matter. Until that unholy union of lobbyists and lawyers and related enablers is reined in (in atleast a modest way... totally reining in is impossible in the US), this vicious cycle of job loss and increased outsourcing will continue.

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Aug 29, 2011 7:05 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to jake_leone

"Except that I know the U.S.is also a product exporting nation."

I agree but not yet outpass the import of service and goods which is the key for the issue of unbalanced trade defcit.It is like you sell service/goods for $1 but buyback service/good for $5.

"We are not a nation of hedonists, which many would like to quite bigottedly insinuate."

It is not individual americans wish to be hedonists...but quietly introduced to Americans without their knowledge and now they are stuck with the issue and no way to get out of it.

Example:The way shopping malls (usually ultra big) and work locations are seperated from housing...in the name of keeping industries away from residential areas.Few decades back there use to be small shoping malls (mom &pop stores) around residential areas (Within walkable distance) now without CAR you cannot go for shopping.I have to drive at least a mile for the closest shop and 25 miles to office with no public transport for both.

"Except that there are high tariffs for U.S.goods in many countries (for example China). Further, you can't get a Visa in India unless you are make around 12x the per-capita income. Both amount to a ridiculous tariff on the ability of the United States to sell goods in either country."

High tariffs are needed because of cost difference...and I have no idea on visa in India...would like to have some source for you claim.

US corporates found ways to cut the cost to sell goods in other countries.Example:Coke &Pepsi, they don't get any resource (water,labor) from US instead they consume local resources and sell their goods in local and take back profit to US.

"Further, the U.S.visa programs were never meant to be used to remove millions of U.S.jobs. Which is exactly how they are being used by foreign outsourcing companies. And if you look at the heavy U.S.users, IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, these companies have been using the Visas to offshore millions of their U.S.jobs as well. "

I agree Visa program (for that matter any program) gets created to kill local jobs but Corporates usually find any programs and use it for their advantage.

I disagree on visa programs are used to offshore millions of jobs...you don't need any visa to offshore any projects.I worked in many MNCs and I never visited any country to get projects (offshore), even in olden days we use to get knowledge transfer thru phone, email and video conf (quite costly those days).Now you don't have to step into any country to offshore...all you need is high speed internet connection and someone in both side to speak...boom...in few weeks any job (which can be offshored) can be offshored.Visa programs are additional facility to show and meet your client and build up trust.Every project/job got offshored today would be offshored even without any visa program.If you think so then you are trying to claim if you close your eyes whole world goes dark :-).It is right to believe so but certainly not true.

The U.S.government Visa programs have been used to destroy the U.S.government tax base, which is ironic and ridiculous at the same time, and would be political suicide in any other country where people have to work for a living.

I agree when any job offshore there is no revenue to government but that is not related to any visa program. Reply

Aug 29, 2011 7:05 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to jake_leone
Visa programs are to get people here not to send job out, butya people come here to learn how a job was done to take it offshore.which can be done easily sitting in offshoreas I said before all you need is high speed internet and High resolution web cam to have real effect of sitting next to a person in other part of the world.

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Aug 29, 2011 7:06 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true...don't try same old WMD technique...

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Aug 29, 2011 7:51 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to jobs4US

My Congreesman seems convinced we need them.... all of them. It seemed like it was going to be an uphill battle to convince him otherwise. I felt the same in the Senate offices in DC, too. They all have come to believe that we are doomed if we do not bring and employ every Tech graduate from third world countries. Our legislators are convinced every one of them are the best and brightest :P

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Aug 29, 2011 7:56 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

Ofcourse...you go back to the WMD issue....you hate America sooo much, yet mooch off of it by working and living here :P

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Aug 29, 2011 8:05 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to hire american

This what the US tech workers are up against: Free college level education benefit for Indians provided by the Indian government.... 

There are 5500 engineering schools in one state alone in India. Almost 200,000 students graduate from these colleges every year.The US elected officials think all of these graduates are the best and brightest, and eligible for H1b visas.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_Agricultural_and_Medical_Common_Entrance_Test

www.aponline.gov.in/apportal/departments/departments.asp?dep=03&;org=26&category=about

Most of these Indian graduates get free education past high school level. They get free education in college as well. The US graduates simply cannot compete in a system that is rigged by their own lawmakers that benefits foreign graduates in every which way.

Time for the US members of Congress to start supporting the US youth by providing free educational opportunities in STEM fields. If a third world country can do this for it's citizens, why not the US?

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Aug 29, 2011 8:12 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

Same old lie...with same old links....try differently to make everyone to buy your snack oil.

How about you go back to AP and work there when you got free Engineering education there instead of painting everyone with same brush. If you got free Engineering doesn't mean everyone got the same way.

"Time for the US members of Congress to start supporting the US youth by providing free educational opportunities in STEM fields. If a third world country can do this for it's citizens, why not the US?"

ha ha ha ha....this is final comedy piece here....when US is cutting budget on education you want Free education on STEM fields!!!!!

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Aug 29, 2011 8:32 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

You seem to totally enjoy the fact that the US government is cutting the education budget :P

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Aug 29, 2011 8:46 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

I am enjoying (sarcastic here!!!) your level of ignorance on current state of affair in US.

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Aug 29, 2011 9:22 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

How is you beloved future president Bachmann doing...it seems Perry is far ahead in the race...lets see...

And you choice seems to be not doing great  (making fun on others trouble) when people are in real trouble...

"I don't know how much God has to do to get the attention of the politicians. We've had an earthquake; we've had a hurricane. He said, 'Are you going to start listening to me here?' Listen to the American people because the American people are roaring right now. They know government is on a morbid obesity diet and we've got to rein in the spending.

Bachmann's comments immediately stoked a firestorm of media attention. In a follow-up statement, Bachmann's campaign said Monday the candidate's observations were merely a joke, according to Talking Points Memo."

I am for Republican no matter who race against Obama.

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Aug 29, 2011 9:41 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

Hmmmm...I said that the US government needs to fund STEM degrees for US citizens just as the Indian goverment is doing so for Indian citizens in India.

Whether the US education budget is being cut or not is immaterial..you don't seem to have the grasp of a grade level kid. Kind of scary to know that you have been let in :P

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Aug 29, 2011 9:44 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

Ahhh...the main stream press....the headlines you live by:P

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Aug 29, 2011 10:17 AM ITJob ITJob  says:

"Also, the Indian government pays to educate everyone through college, not just upto high school like here in the US."

And from where you learned this information, can you tell everyone....I payed my fees and wanted to get those back if government suppose to pay for me.

And not all people goes to government schools in India, for sure we can say most goes to private schools because of standard (or fear of missing standard in govt school) of education.

Monday morning you started your mis-information without doing your job...no wonder why you get fired.

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Aug 29, 2011 10:33 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to ITJob

"High tariffs are needed because of cost difference...and I have no idea on visa in India...would like to have some source for you claim."

The tariffs are not needed by China, this is simple to prevent U.S. goods from being affordable in China.  The tariffs in China on U.S. goods show that China is afraid to compete against U.S. companies.

You cannot come into India on Visa, unless you earn the equivalent of 25,000 or more dollars (take the per capita income and you can see that this is a high multiple).  This amounts to a huge tariff, and show that Indian workers are afraid to compete, and they look to their government for protection. 

"as I said before all you need is high speed internet and High resolution web cam to have real effect of sitting next to a person in other part of the world."

No one ever does it that way, and you know that, there is always a liason on the customer site.  Offshoring is accomplished by sending engineers, business managers, and (lots of) trainees into the United States on a visa, to learn directly from the existing staff how to actually do the work.  Stop the off-shoring usage of Visas and you will stop about 90% of the job destruction that is occuring because of it.

I have worked at several customer sites, and they will never allow cameras into their worksite, for security reasons.   Further, the speed of most web-cams are slow when working between here and India.  I know, our company has an excellent connection to India, still very slow to access PC's remotely, Database usage to support ERP system - out of the question, video (you've got to be joking).

The Engineer sits at the doorway to hundreds, sometimes thousand of jobs.  To allow people into our country, whose sole purpose is to remove jobs, is a national disgrace.  No country on this earth would allow that, except the United States (India and China notably in recent press reports), and it needs to stop.  This recession will not end, until that stops I can assure you.

Because the people in other countries don't want to compete with us, they want to find an easier route that involves legal and political arbitrage and fraud.  And that is what this InfoSys case is all about, the unwillingness to abide by U.S. law, so that they can create a uneven hiring situation between U.S. citizens (who must legally be paid a minimum wage and pay taxes) and B-1 workers (who are paid sub-minimum wage, and pay no U.S. taxes.)

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Aug 29, 2011 10:48 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to ITJob

"....I payed my fees and wanted to get those back if government suppose to pay for me."

"payed your fees?"......Obviously your private schooling that you paid for did not do a good job of educating you. No wonder you have to resort to lying and cheating to displace american from jobs so you can have a job :P

And which one of those 5,500 engineering schools did you graduate from?

Was it the one ranked 5,500 :P

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Aug 29, 2011 10:51 AM hieamerican hieamerican  says: in response to ITJob

Here is the proof.....it is listed on the state goverment website.

And you did not get reimbursed because you belonged to the 'UPPER CASTE'......unlike a majority of the Indian citizens that are LOW CASTE and POOR.

www.aponline.gov.in/apportal/departments/departments.asp?dep=03&;org=26&category=about

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Aug 29, 2011 10:59 AM hireamerican hireamerican  says: in response to hieamerican

If you read thru you can see that a student can go to a privately run corporate school, and the goverment reimburses the school directly, no matter the ranking of the school!!

The US graduates saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans simply cannot compete with these Indian school graduates.

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Aug 29, 2011 11:05 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to Jake_Leone

"And that is what this InfoSys case is all about, the unwillingness to abide by U.S. law"

Actually it is more like the US government giving companies like Infosys a free pass...the government knows what's going on but turns a blind eye.

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Aug 29, 2011 11:10 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to hireamerican

If they are found guilty of fraud they should also be barred from sponsoring H-1b workers in addition to monetary penalties (since they are accused of using the B visa to circumvent H-1b rules) as well as B visas.  We need to demand the that disbarment be part of any settlement and/or finding of guilt.

We also need legislation that stops the outplacement of H-1b visa workers just like we have for the L-1 visa.  That legislation would make any penalty against Infosys moot since it would effectively be the same thing.

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Aug 29, 2011 11:13 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to R. Lawson

L1 visa holders are placed at client sites. All outsourcers do it.

Yes, if outplacement of H1b visa workers is stopped, then that would be the end of all outsourcing companies!!!

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Aug 29, 2011 11:16 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hieamerican

So you mean to say Low cast and poor shouldn't get any relief and you want to say there is zero scholarships in US ?

Whom you are trying to fool here?

Try below links

www.scholarships.com/main.aspx

www.scholarships.com/financial-aid/college-scholarships/scholarships-by-type/minority-scholarships/african-american-scholarships/

Unfortunately you have to get decent grade to get scholarship in US.

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Aug 29, 2011 11:27 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

Exactly...where as in India, everyone gets free education regardless of grades because the income levels are low, or can be shown to be low since most jobs are cash jobs.

I have seen folks drive off in a Mercedes after getting free heart surgery in a corporate hospital the fee for which is reimbursed by goverment programs!!

The US corporations are already funding Universal healthcare and free educaiton.....in  another country :P

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Aug 29, 2011 11:28 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hireamerican

Even in US you can get scholarship for Private colleges...don't act as if there is zero scholarship for students in US.

And the link you gave is for a state but you claimed "Indian government" pays. If you read the income limit you know how many can apply just having the scholarship doesn't mean everyone gets it.

Poor kids generally don't finish high school (even in US), only kids from middle class reach college level and in general their parents salary never below Rs 45,000/year (around $84/month). You are clearly exaggerating the smallest possible thing to prove your point.

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Aug 29, 2011 11:33 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to hire american

Another point to note here.....each and everyone of these graduates is eligible to apply for one of the 65K H1b visas, regardless of the school they graduated from, be it ranked #1 or # 5,500!!

According to our elected officials...each and everyone of them is the best and brightest compared to the US graduates that are just stupid,fat and lazy :P

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Aug 29, 2011 11:36 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

"I have seen folks drive off in a Mercedes after getting free heart surgery in a corporate hospital the fee for which is reimbursed by goverment programs!!

The US corporations are already funding Universal healthcare and free educaiton.....in  another country :P "

Man...you are really having major issue in zooming things beyong anyones guess.

Are you trying to link two different things into one just to prove you point ?

Who is driving mercedes...where... India or US?

What are you talking when you say "The US corporations are already funding Universal healthcare....blah blah".... Do you mean to say US corporates are ran by saints and with zero profit that too in another country (and which country is that!!!!).

I think you forget to take your medicine and all these are side effects of it... :P

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Aug 29, 2011 11:40 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

The point here is...Americans cannot compete at third world wages....get it?!!! Get your free education and stay there!!!

State goverment is different from Indian government?? P

Scholarships arefew and far between in the US, where as in India if a student meets the qualifications of low income and low caste, they get the free education.

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Aug 29, 2011 11:43 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

India's major income is the $60 billion from the US IT industry.

A dent in that will have ripple effects to the Indian economy.

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Aug 29, 2011 11:49 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to hire american

I think it is futile to expect non-Americans to have any sympathy or sensitivity to American issues. They will continue to exploit whatever they can to get in. Our own corporate oligarchs have no empathy, so unless that is changed nothing will happen.

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Aug 29, 2011 12:26 PM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

Really!!!!Only #1 college can get best and brightest in the world?Another assumption with own ideology to prove your own point/agenda.

In general number #1 colleges take only #1 kid...so they by default best and brightest or at least proven best and brightest...

But not all best and brightest end up in #1 college...due to limited seat and more cost.

If a poor kid who is best and brightest but can't afford then they end up going to less popular college or Government College and do great in education.Don't link college ranking with kid's education, it is the environment, the teachers and the kid's interest makes the difference not the college ranking.

I had done my all education in government school where you get to study with 75+ kids (at times it can reach up to 90) in a class and done all my education in my mother tongue (started learning English only from Bachelor degree)...out of 200 teachers in a school there will be hardly 5 - 10 who really teach and rest enjoy their salary and part-time business.From day one you will be on your own...if you are lucky you get 1 of those good teachers.I am one of those lucky 1 to get 1 best teacher in my school.

I remember one of his quote "Private institute (schools) take only horse (best and brightest) and send them out as horse but Government institute (schools) take anyone (no matter how worst you are) and get some to be horse (best and brightest)"

Even in such worst condition 2 of my classmates did Engineering IIT and few of my class mates joined IIM at later stage.If you rank my school it will be 1st from the last but it is the dedication of some teachers and kids which gets few best and brightest in each class.

When my Kid went to school here I was literally had water in my eyes to see the facilities and care they give and that to in public school.Only 18-21 kids per class with so much facility which I never seen even in my engineering college (again Government College).Every month/quarter they are having meeting with parents to discuss on kids progress, we could approach every person in the school and give/get feedbacks.In my whole life I have never got my teacher to discuss with me or my parents on my issues/progress.My parents never (other than first day to give me some directions on how to reach the place) visited my school/college in my life.

And my kid never ever have to walk to schoolif it is a mile away or no walkable road (in one state my kid use to get school bus for 0.35miles) they get to have school bus.I use to walk most of my life for school and after reaching college got my 1st bike (we call it bi-cycle) because college is 9miles from home.

What else you need as kid to studyother than good environment at home.No country provides importance for kid's education to my knowledge.Now you can get such education and care in India but it will cost you a lot and for sure forget about government school (few exceptions are there too).

Hard working kids from worst college can be best and brightest, please stop this kind of assumption pieces which can't be true in most of the time.

There are 0.5 million students graduate in engineering every year in India and 65K (not all 65k are engineers) gets to reach US...but I agree not all 65k can be best and brightest.You cannot define best and brightest just because of the college degree he holds.

PS: Reply

Aug 29, 2011 12:26 PM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american
I agree I am not great in English and I don't want to hide my thoughts just because I am not good in a language.Whenever someone points my mistakes in English I try to avoid those next time...I am not feeling insulted when someone points my mistake.I firmly believe persons who find mistakes in me are helping me not insulting me.In that why I thank you for every mistake you pointed out, but some are typo's some are the way I learned the language.And I have some more life time to learn it and will learn it till I stop doing mistakes.

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Aug 29, 2011 12:29 PM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

According to www.scholarships.com/main.aspx US students getting 19billion dollars in scholarships...is it few and far for you ?

Again not all students get the scholarships...and you are trying to prove everyone gets it in India which is not true.

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Aug 29, 2011 12:36 PM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

What is it going to take to get it into your thick head that things are not cheap in the US? Just get your free scholarships in India and stay there!!

Don't come here and compete with Americans and lower the standard of living here to third world country status/

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Aug 29, 2011 12:37 PM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

So what....every contry is dependent on another in this connected world.

How will America run if Arab countries stop giving Oil to US? who is using most oil in this world ?

How about every country agrees on oil usage limits (because it is non-renewable energy) based on population?

Every corporate is exploiting cheap labor (like Apple use China to make Iphone...which is fan-boy product of every Americans) and it is not the mistake of those labor force and pointing them for US corporates mistake is nothing cheap tactics.  All you are trying to say is kill the messenger to win the war..but for sure you can't win the war.

You are crying foul...just to prove your won point of view. Unemployment problem is not created by work visa but it may or may not be todays need because of current state of unemployment.

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Aug 29, 2011 12:40 PM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

So is it your goal to bring down the status here, since you say you have tears in your eyes looking at teh facilities here?

How many members of your family fought in war for India? Things just don't happen in the US. There is a lot of sacrifice and hard work that goes into what we have here.

One day you just walk into a school and think wow, they have it all here, and set out to destroy it all with your fake resumes and lies.

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Aug 29, 2011 12:42 PM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

How about you ask your government to stop giving Visa?

How about you ask your elected officails to work for you?

How about you ask your corporates to work for your interest?

Who are you to tell me where I should stay?

Is it because we are easy target for you guys?

Is it because we are easy to insult?

Is it because you have no backbone to standup and speak to your own elected officials?

Is it because you have no backbone to standup and speak to your own corporates to look for your interest?

You're barking up the wrong tree my friend...look for right place to bark.

You are just venting you frustration on us and wanted every Americans to do the same. May be you can make everyone in America to hate us but that is not going to solve your problem.

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Aug 29, 2011 12:43 PM ITJob ITJob  says:

If you think otherwise then....hahahahahaha

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Aug 29, 2011 12:46 PM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

We are not denying that Indan corruption has spread to the elected officials here. They are denitely in bed with Indian lobby firms and employ high flying lawyers!!

What we do need the H1bs to do is not use fake resumes to displace Americans!!

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Aug 29, 2011 12:48 PM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

Goes to show how much knowledge you have :P

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Aug 29, 2011 12:55 PM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

Whatever :P

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Aug 29, 2011 12:56 PM hire american hire american  says: in response to ITJob

Ofcourse you can't think of anything original :P

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Aug 29, 2011 12:59 PM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hire american

yep...that right..it shows how much knowledge you have...

abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/politics&;id=6359976

"I will set a clear goal as president: in ten years we will finally end our dependence on oil in the Middle East," said Democratic Presidential nominee Barack Obama.

"We import two-thirds of our oil now and the only way we can become independent is shut down industry and tell people they can't drive, tell people they can't fly," said Professor Sweeney.

Who is lieing here...is upto you...it is you or all other Americans.

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Aug 30, 2011 1:14 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to hire american

Sad, but true. President Obama's workaround to grant amnesty to illegal aliens bypasses Congress and is a direct assault to millions of unemployed Americans.  I can't believe I voted for this empty suit, he needs to be impeached.

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Aug 30, 2011 1:27 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to jobs4us

I did not vote for him....and the reason was becasue soooo many people were soooo gaga about him....I live by the rule that it's never a good sign when too many people follow/believe in something....like when everyone piles on the stock market, it spells a 'top' for the market.

Meanwhile Obama's amnesty needing uncle,Onyango Obama,is arrested near Boston for drunk driving :P

www.wbur.org/2011/08/29/obamas-uncle-arrested

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Aug 30, 2011 1:52 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hire american

Best part:

Police said that after being booked at the police station, Obama was asked whether he wanted to make a telephone call to arrange for bail.

"I think I will call the White House," he stated

Everyone of Obama's relatives who has an illegal immigration issue is mysteriously being granted asylum or getting off the hook including this uncle who has a illegal status issue.

"The president's administration announced this month that it would allow many illegal immigrants facing deportation the chance to stay in the U.S. and apply for work permits and would focus on removing convicted criminals and people who might be national security or public safety threats."

They know who they are and they still won't do anything. The only reason I can think of why this continues is vote bank politics. I don't know what message they intend to send people who go through all the paperwork and other legal hurdles. Encourage the lazy to stay more lazy, reward those who break the law, make it harder for those who obey it and make it even harder for law enforcement and state governments to do their job. If you face any opposition, you can count on your supporters to pull the race card.

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Aug 30, 2011 8:39 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to George Alexander

As the other stories out here demonstrate, laws are only meant for the already law abiding people. Criminals and politicians (there is an overlap there...)  aren't constrained by any such moral barriers.

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Aug 30, 2011 9:29 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to jobs4us

"What can be done to stop feeding this troll? "

Simple stop insulting others here and stop stereotyping that will make everyone's life smooth here.

"This person insults you and your readers in an attempt to provoke controversy and adds no value to the discussion. "

I am one of the readers of Don's blog and by calling me troll you are doing the same what you are accusing me.

I can agree with Don's blog but not the way he blogs(not this one)...content is truth but the way truth blogged..is what I disagree.

It is quite amazing to people wanted to raise their dignity at the cost of others.

If you don't see any value in my comment better stop reading about it rather than complain about it....grow up...don't act like 2nd grader.

"Can your organization please bar this person? "

This is not a paid association to bar anyone. This is a blog with provision to comment without even being registered member. Better ask for something reasonable and doable instead of being nave about public forum.

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Aug 30, 2011 9:39 AM jobs4US jobs4US  says: in response to George Alexander

Anyone know what's involved in getting Obama impeached?  

WE THE PEOPLE have been betrayed and outsourced by our own President.

Treason!

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Aug 30, 2011 9:55 AM jobs4US jobs4US  says:

Infosys plans concrete steps against mounting visa issues  Updated at Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 23:32 

www.moneycontrol.com/news/cnbc-tv18-comments/infosys-plans-concrete-steps-against-mounting-visa-issues_581523.html

CNBC-TV18 learns that Infosys has moved its head of HR Nandita Gurjar to the US in a signal perhaps that it intends to engage more with its employees there and take the issue head on and also as an indication to the world that the company is viewing the entire episode in serious light.

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Aug 30, 2011 10:00 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to jobs4US

This is the irritating part:

"Sources say that a resolution to the lawsuit filed by Jack Palmer and the subsequent grand jury investigation could take at least a couple of years. In the meantime, Infosys does now want to leave anything to chance. "

With individuals from vendor and customer changing companies and countries, I wonder what will happen to evidence by then.

This will be like the other TCS case that has been dragging on for years.

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Aug 30, 2011 10:01 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to George Alexander

Government gives amnesty to illegal immigrant whereas petty case will get serious punishment..

Teen gets branded a felon for life for robbing man of 7 cents

news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/teen-gets-branded-felon-life-robbing-man-7-200811947.html

One stupid action got this kids life screwed...whereas criminal actions (crossing border) gets work permit in US.

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Aug 30, 2011 10:29 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to ITJob

Yep.. another "lemonade stand" law that our brilliant keepers of the public trust have made. He's already received a stiffer punishment than any of the Wall Street banksters. Kafka could write a book about this.

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Aug 30, 2011 10:30 AM who knows who knows  says: in response to Infosys Associate

I was wondering what all agencies doing (if they didn't do anything) so far and not busting Infosys offices around US, won't this given enough time for Infosys to hide hard evidence.

Is there any law that those agencies can't initiate any search/investigation on their own?

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Aug 30, 2011 10:37 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to ITJob

Let the court of public opinion  be the judge.  


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

What is a troll?
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

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Aug 30, 2011 11:22 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to who knows

Like I mentioned before, the US goverment deliberatly turns a blind eye to the outsourcer shenanigans.

Powerful lobby firms, high paid lawyers, and the deep pockets of outsourcing companies at work here!!

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Aug 30, 2011 12:15 PM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to ITJob

Don, can you please help us? What can be done to stop feeding this troll?

This person insults you and your readers in an attempt to provoke controversy and adds no value to the discussion.

Can your organization please bar this person?

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Aug 30, 2011 12:33 PM Infosys Associate Infosys Associate  says:

Don,

I have been with this company for more than decade and I know many many of my colleagues that have been on Business visa for pure work. I can provide the names of the folks that had been to the States on Business Visa if required. However, many of them have since quit the company as well.

Mr. Narayana Murthy does not let go of a single opportunity to brag about his humble belongings, his spartan living and sermons in every conceivable podium about being ethical. I can share few of the so called ethical stuff in the company (I don't think these are something that will escape his eyes)

Engineers are asked to provide Production Support with no additional money or compensation. Even in California they come up with SOW such that the response time is 25 minutes. If it is 20 minutes or less, they have to provide overtime Pay. However, the team is requested (euphemism for strict direction) to be available at very short notice.

People from India travel to States or to a different location if they are reassigned to a different project only during weekends. No compensatory off is provided for the weekend travel. This is one of the cheapest way of cutting corners.

When client shuts down during the year end for Christmas break, the employees are asked to apply their vacation time. Recently when Cisco had a furlough, the team out there was asked to apply for their vacation time. When a couple of members questioned that, they were asked to move back to India (does it smell retaliation).

Even if an employee gets an award, the award money is used for the ~8% social security tax (the employer contribution). The company does not want to pay even that 8% of tax from their coffers.

In California, Overtime is not paid always. I can provide specific instances that can send the Engagement Manager (the account anchor at the client place) and the Deliver Manager to prison. They did it with explicit knowledge. Offshore team is upset that the people are willing to work off the clock.

The vacation time slab - 10 days for 1st 2 years; 12 days from 3rd - 5th; 15 from 6th year on wards at onsite (when employees are deputed from Indian office) accrues based on the duration of the employee is continuously at onsite. It does not matter whether the employee has been with the company for how long in India. You know, this is another way to reduce cost.

In Appraisals, people are provided with Performance measures which would take any where between 12 - 16 hrs of dedicated effort every day to complete them. But if you say that I was in a project and was billed at 100% of my available time, you will get a below par rating. Your attitude is not good kind of statements. Additional work by an employee is not a nice to do but a must do task for employees.

Majority of the US recruits are essentially ethnic Indians, very few are of Afro American/Caucasian origin.

I am not a disgruntled employee venting my frustration here but having a patient look at the company that I spent almost 1/3rd of my life with.

A cursory audit of the system can throw light on the above mentioned illegal practices/abuses and unethical actions.

So is Narayana Murthy is really ethical or just blabbering the word "Ethics" without realizing the true meaning of ethics?

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Aug 30, 2011 12:46 PM hire american hire american  says: in response to Infosys Associate

"A cursory audit of the system can throw light on the above mentioned illegal practices/abuses and unethical actions'

Truedat!!! One has to know where to look for the information, it's all there and available. Everything can and will come out in the open!!

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Aug 30, 2011 12:52 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to jobs4us

Personally, I think this discussion has run its course. Time to move on.

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Aug 31, 2011 1:22 AM kris kris  says: in response to jobs4us

This is a simple case of a lawyer trying to gain mileage taking advantage of the current economic scenario from a hapless employee.

Jack Palmer - Disclose the evidence to PUBLIC if you feel it is wrong instead of just telling everything to LAWYER who is LEAKING INFORMATION, asking for apologies whatsoever. He appears to know that company can take action against breach of confidential information and some other legal aspects, so is trying to gain MAXIMUM PUBLICITY through this campaign while saving you.

Would someone even have cared if this was a small unknown company ?

NO - Since this is a big company, you will get noticed. "Don Tennant" is your voice here. He is NOT telling the FACTS or SOURCE, BUT just LEAKING INFORMATION for getting press coverage. So no one knows what is the ACTUAL TRUTH and leaves everyone guessing.

@Jack - DO WHAT YOU FEEL IS RIGHT instead of BLINDLY RELYING on your LAWYER.

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Aug 31, 2011 1:40 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to kris

The highest office in the US as well as several of the top posts in government and industry are held by lawyers. That should tell you something about who runs the country.  They are sadly a necessary evil needed when dealing with entities like Infosys too.

One would be foolish to try and take on a corporation without a legal representative in some form providing a level of "protection" from the corporations would would have no qualms in destroying anyone who tried to "do the right thing". Palmer seems to have already caused Infosys some distress. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to figure they do not wish him well. Voodoo dolls and pins might be part of their future strategy.

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Aug 31, 2011 1:58 AM john john  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

can the immigration department provide with statistics on how many visas and in which category are being handed out everyday at the various consulates? I am sure the numbers from india alone will be staggering. Can the immigration department justify why so many ppl are being handed out so many B1/B2 visas? do so many ppl need to take training and meetings? and why give them a 10-20 yr visa. they should be given a 3 month visa like ireland or some other countries do. Why do they get a multiple entry visa for 10 years, which is by far the most generous visa the world over

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Aug 31, 2011 2:09 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to john

Good questions. You can thank dubious "studies" created by industry shills about alleged shortages that are used to create a faux "tech skill drought" and other euphemisms to lobby clueless lawmakers to allow these visas to be freely doled out. I'm sure the skilled industry funded lobbyists are quite capable of selling snow to people living in the Arctic.

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Aug 31, 2011 5:43 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

The US government is not on the side of the middle class Americans. It all begins and ends there!!

All those studies and surveys are for the birds

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Aug 31, 2011 11:00 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to kris

Perhaps the laws in your country are different and your opinion is based on this difference. 

Your insistence that a party to a civil lawsuit and related criminal charges bypass his legal team makes absolutely no sense in the context of US laws and US courts.   

Jay Palmer is an American hero.. Bravo Jay for standing up and doing the right thing.

Please stop trying to bully one of America's best and brightest. 

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Aug 31, 2011 11:49 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to john

India Biannual Fraud Update Tue, 13 Oct 2009
cablegatesearch.net/cable.php?id=09CHENNAI306&q=h-1b

India-wide consular operations are among the busiest in the world.In FY-2008, Mission India processed more than 756,000 non-immigrant visa applications and 27,000 immigrant visa applications

Despite this difficult economic climate, demand for visa appointments from the intending immigrant population in northern India has remained strong.

An opinion poll published in the popular Times of India in January 2007 noted that 37 percent of the 1.1 billion Indians would emigrate if they had the chance.

Mission India processes more H and L visas than any other country in the world, more than 30 percent of the world total in FY-2008

Mission India still processed 120,320 H and L visa applications in the first three quarters of FY-2009, including 60,725 in Chennai alone.

Mission India processed 192,332 H and L visa adjudications in FY-2008 and 190,087 in FY-2007.

FRAUD

In FY-2009, the non-immigrant visa classes most often targeted for fraud were B1/B2 business travelers/tourists, H-1B temporary workers, F1 student visas, and P3 culturally unique artists.

Suspected Visa Fraud CasesDuring the six month period from March through August 2009, Mission India's consular sections identified a total of 3,596 cases of suspected visa fraud
  • Chennai - 1,237
  • New Delhi - 949
  • Mumbai - 809
  • Hyderabad - 523
  • Kolkata - 78
Most of India's fraudulent applicants come from specific and easily defined regional areas within each consular district.These states have some of the most mobile populations in India and the and the largest concentrations of expatriate communities overseas, including in the United States

During the reporting period, Mission India identified 3,083 total cases of possible NIV fraud.

Confirmed Fraud Rates of Completed Investigations

Just over half of those cases resulted in a finding of confirmed fraud
  • Chennai - 1,182 cases 60 percent
  • New Delhi - 685, 34 percent
  • Mumbai - 615, 56 percent
  • Hyderabad - 523, Kolkata - 78 30 percent
B1/B2 visa fraud is the most commonplace.

Regionally-based fraud rings throughout the country, but especially in Hyderabad, continue to produce fraudulent documents for visa application and travel purposes.Some visa "consultants" and travel agents specialize in fraudulent experience letters and fake document packages, which include passport copies of false relatives, bogus financial documents, and affidavits of support.

In the last six months the number of reported B1/B2 fraud cases throughout the Mission has nearly doubled from 1,089 to 2,121.

H-1B fraud is one of the top two visa categories for fraud throughout Mission India. Reply
Aug 31, 2011 11:49 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to john
All posts regularly encounter inflated or fabricated educational and employment qualifications.

The vast majority of these documents come from Hyderabad

FPU Chennai investigated 150 companies in Hyderabad, 77 percent of which turned out to be fraudulent or highly suspect

Most of those cases slated for site visits were to verify the experience letters for H-1B applicants who did not meet minimum educational qualifications.
The state of Andhra Pradesh, and Hyderabad in particular, has long been the hub for fraudulent document vendors in India.Hyderabadi applicants comprised over one-third of Chennai's total visa workload in FY-2008, but well over half of the FPU workload.

Mumbai identified a recent trend of "mix-and-match" couples where multiple H-4 spouses pretended to be married to the same H-1B spouse resident in the United States.These applicants were to pay upon issuance approximately $70,000 to the smuggler that arranged their documentation

An investigation by the Chennai FPU in 2008 uncovered a visa fraud racket through which famous Tamil film actors and industry associates assisted mala fide applicants to obtain B1/B2 visas, purportedly to scout movie locations (ref Q).Over two hundred applicants applied for visas under this scheme, and 95 were issued.Thirty-eight of those applicants are confirmed overstays who are currently illegally present in the United States.FPU revoked the visas of 56 other individuals, mostly Tamil film stars and industry associates, for their direct role in this visa scheme.The case generated significant press attention throughout India and appeared on all of the major news networks, thereby creating a very high-profile anti-fraud awareness campaign.

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Sep 1, 2011 1:30 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to hire american

Exactly. Thanks to Wikileaks, these official US Embassy Cables describing B-1, H-1b visa fraud and abuse are exposed.

How in the world can any politician legitimately claim the need for more corporate visas with 9%+ US unemployment, and confirmed fraud in 50% all visa case investigations in India?  

These embassy cables state

  • B1/B2 visa fraud is the most commonplace
  • Regionally-based fraud rings throughout the country, but especially in Hyderabad continue to produce fraudulent documents for visa application and travel purposes.
  • In the last six months the number of reported B1/B2 fraud cases throughout the Mission has nearly doubled from 1,089 to 2,121.

These statements from official US Federal Government officials clearly prove show that B-1 visa fraud is NOT an isolated situation and back-up Jay Palmer's case v. Infosys.

I sure hope this is admissible evidence. I'm no lawyer but I say case closed. Jay wins!

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Sep 1, 2011 2:45 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to jobs4us

Subject Mumbai Business Community Raises Challenges To Improving Corporate Governance In The Wake Of The Satyam Scandal

Reference id Wikileaks id #194572 Source wikileaks.org/cable/2009/03/09MUMBAI85.htmlUS Consulate Cable Mumbai March 2 2009 HistoryFirst published on Fri, 26 Aug 201

1. (SBU) Summary

While most acknowledged that the size of the Satyam Computer scandal was exceptional, interlocutors also believe that lapses in corporate governance are common throughout India's publicly traded companies, many of which are still family-run and controlled.

The Indian software lobby and the Indian government have acted quickly to stem the damage following the Satyam financial scandal and to attempt to restore faith and confidence in corporate India (reftels).

However, our contacts felt that as long as promoters or majority shareholders play a role in managing the company, true corporate governance will likely remain an illusion rather than a reality.

Without a robust judicial system or a more powerful regulator, our interlocutors expect little to change in the near-future.

Rajiv Vaishnav, Regional Director of NASSCOM, maintained that the Satyam fraud incident is an isolated one...

S. Mahalingam, Executive Director and Chief Financial Officer at Tata Consultancy Services, agreed... He acknowledged, however, that when suddenly about $1.6 billion vanishes, it brings to light certain inherent deficiencies in the corporate governance standards.

He insisted that this is a one-off case where an individual decided to act fraudulently.

Ispat Energy's Tamotia believes most businesses in India are run like Satyam, with little regard for true governance. Shareholders are unconcerned as long as the company's stock continues to appreciate.

Nevertheless, he does not expect corporate fraud to be discovered in other companies because there is too much at stake, and not because they are without blame. There is a thin line between tax evasion and tax avoidance, he noted.

Comment: 15. (U) Mumbai's business community feels that the Satyam financial scandal has highlighted the inadequacies of corporate governance law but it has few answers (yet) on how to imbibe the true "spirit" of corporate governance in India's largely family-owned companies.

In older companies, where company heads are treated as celebrities and heroes on par with film stars, movements to force change at the top are unlikely to work.

As Indian companies increasingly aspire to be global companies, they face the inconvenient fact that transparency and good governance matter to investors. Whether the fallout of Satyam forces them to concede this remains to be seen.

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Sep 1, 2011 3:05 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to jobs4us

We need an Anna Hazare movement here in the US as well!!!

Who is with me?

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Sep 1, 2011 9:29 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says:

Interesting documentary why college education is another bubble like the housing market by government driven tuition fees inflation.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE&;feature=pyv&ad=6739540474&kw=money

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Sep 1, 2011 9:59 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to Dolores

More Wikileaks cables expose more India visa fraud (Sataym aftermath) wikileaks.org/cable/2009/03/09MUMBAI85.html

Thin line between tax evasion and avoidance

Corporate Governance is an idea, not a practice. As long as a company's stock is doing well no one cares if they've broken the law (pararphrase)

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Sep 1, 2011 10:27 AM Hiretalent Hiretalent  says: in response to hire american

that's the difference. Anna Hazzare never asked for support, everyone followed him when he started his movement.

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Sep 1, 2011 10:58 AM hire american hire american  says: in response to Hiretalent

I am not starting anything....I am just saying we follow him here as well...

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Sep 1, 2011 12:26 PM hire american hire american  says: in response to jobs4us

I am sure the fraud numbers are much much higher in reality!!

Question is, why is the US government continuing to approve the visas despite high unemployment in the US? Especially for entry level jobs. H1bs working in entry level jobs are strewn across all over the US:P

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Sep 6, 2011 10:05 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Dolores

former head of the overseas operations cell at Wipro

An extremely poor choice of word (or a Freudian slip ?), considering the negative connotations that word has, especially given the somber anniversary this week.

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Sep 7, 2011 3:07 AM Gulti Fulti Gulti Fulti  says: in response to jobs4us

It seems you can help bring about VISA violations in the US to light. Can you please let me know if a person (Non - US / Temp Worker ) on a L1A/L1B visa can work full time at the client's site.

Example : TCS employees from India on L1A / L1B working full time in MN @ Ecolab owned premises instead of TCS rented premises. TCS does not even have a proper Office in Minneapolis, MN wherease there are around 800 people of TCS working in Minneapolis, MN.

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Sep 9, 2011 8:53 AM Aerospace Engineering Aerospace Engineering  says:

Aerospace Engineering work at $ 7 / hour

fearlessblogging.com/post/view/3241

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