The Unacceptability of Poor Social Skills in IT, Part 2

Don Tennant

My previous post, "Why the Preponderance of Poor Social Skills in IT Is Unacceptable" highlighted the incivility and mean-spiritedness that show a lack of well-developed interpersonal skills, a trait often associated with the IT profession. I referred to a discussion I'd had with the CEO of Dale Carnegie & Associates, who mentioned that helping the IT community gain the social skills it needs is big business for his company. This is Part 2 of that story.

 

That post cited excerpts from a couple of reader comments I received in response to an earlier post I'd written about how important it is for disenchanted IT workers to avoid dissuading their kids from entering the IT profession and, even more importantly, to avoid passing along a pessimistic outlook. I received a rash of comments from readers who vehemently disagreed with that viewpoint, but as of Monday, I hadn't responded to any of them. That's when a reader who identified himself as "Chicken Hero" posted this comment:

Where are you Don Tennant ? Why don't you reply at all man ? Are you just a chicken salad or chicken Sht ? You just post your blame on all American parents and run away without a single reply? Is it how you are? or you just want to throw flames and hide your hands under your own ass? I want to see your opinion on the replies above ... Don't be a chicken sht man!! Come on!! Don't run away from the ring man.. Don't hide yourself under you mommy skirt man.. let show us some of your man hood man.. By the way, don't delete my post man.. Am I am right American Parents ?

This was my reply, posted on Wednesday:

Sometimes life gets in the way of replying to blog comments, my friend. Let me just say this in response to you: I am very happy to stand on my record of expressing my views and responding to comments from people who disagree with me. And I find it awfully ironic that you're accusing me of hiding under a mommy skirt when every word I write is under my own name, while you choose to hide in the shadow of anonymity. I'm just sayin'...

On Thursday, a different reader responded to that reply:

Don - difference is you get paid and probably have been offered other opportunities due to your opinions. We, on the other hand, face possible black listing if we express our opinions under our real names. How very brave (and convenient) for you.

That position is core to the incivility discussion, and is the reason I want to continue it here. I don't want my response to be buried in the reader comments of a previous post, so here it is:

 

The reader to whom I replied challenged me for my failure to respond to the reader comments in that post. What is it about making such a challenge that would cause a person to be blacklisted by anyone?

 


Obviously the reader's argument was nonsensical, but it's the one that people who choose to hide in the shadow of anonymity invariably cite. In truth, the reason these people want to stay hidden has nothing to do with their viewpoint, but rather with the manner in which they choose to express it. By remaining anonymous, they're free to engage in personal attacks and mean-spiritedness without being called to account for it. My hunch is that most of them would be deeply embarrassed if their names were associated with what they'd written.

 

And that takes us back to the reason Dale Carnegie has its work cut out for it, and why the company's business in helping IT people develop interpersonal skills is booming.

 

By the way, Dale Carnegie's CEO, Peter Handal, chimed in on the discussion that prompted all of this in the first place, about IT workers who discourage their children from pursuing a dream to work in IT. Here's what Handal had to say:

From a business point of view, just because something is in a cyclical downturn doesn't mean that the five-year or 10-year future of that industry is going to be bad. The economy is so vibrant and so changeable, and things turn around so quickly, it's really silly to try to make that kind of forecast. Find out what your child likes and what the child is good at, and help the child develop those likes and abilities. Because I think that's the key to success-doing what you like and doing what you're good at.

Enough said.



Add Comment      Leave a comment on this blog post
Jul 10, 2010 9:36 AM supportUSworkers supportUSworkers  says:

First of all, please note that out of all of the discussion that Don has done since posting the article titled "Stealing Your Kids' Dreams-and Years from Their Lives" HE HAS NOT ADDRESSED EVEN ONE READER COMMENT RELATED TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC.

This is because he is shilling for corporate cheap labor interests. The tactic of a shill is to continually focus attention on supporting the position of the special interests whom the shill represents.

The idea is to create as much doubt in the reader's minds as possible to support the Big Tech created myth that U.S.citizen technology workers simply don't have the skills to compete in the technology business, and therefore we must raise the H-1B cap so that we can import more foreign workers.

Don is focusing on trying to create more myth and deception about IT workers;in this case the new deception he is trying to create is that most U.S.Information Technology workers are "disproportionately more likely to have poor social skills than people in other fields".

Don states in his blog article:

"It's hardly a secret that people in the IT profession are disproportionately more likely to have poor social skills than people in other fields. It's widely, openly discussed in the context of such topics as the preponderance of IT people with Asperger's Syndrome."

Really Don? Is it REALLY WIDELY KNOWN, or is this just a social stereotype cast upon "computer geeks" by society? Is there scientific data showing that Information Technology workers are "disproportionately more likely to have poor social skills than people in other fields" or is it just a perception based on a stereotype? Please state some credible references for such statistics.

How about citing some real research into the subject, Don?

Not only that, but is the supposed "poor social skills" really applicable to the ability of Information Technology workers to do the important aspects of their jobs properly such as gathering user requirements for business application software? (Do you even know what "software requirements" are Don?)

Or is it more special interest hyped propaganda to try to link something that requires similar interests like dating to the ability of people to do their jobs? Can you really go up to someone in, say a social situation like a party, and after talking to them about issues that are not related to computers accurately come to the conclusion that they work in Information Technology?

Rather than presenting issues in a way that is as unbiased as possible, many news magazine type publications pander and shill for their intended audience in order to increase advertising sales (I know this because my father worked in advertising and we have discussed how magazines pander to the special interests of their intended audience in order to increase the number readers from that audience, thus increasing advertising sales). This pandering and focus on the special interests can create a situation where the reading audience consists mostly of a group of people with a particular similar point of view. Since this reading audience is constantly getting reinforcement by the magazine for their views, they grow out of touch with reality and become concerned only with their own agenda at the expense of others.

Considering the tenacity with which "Mumbai Don" Tennant attacks Information Technology workers, it is likely that he has either been directed by the management of ITBusinessEdge to do this shilling and pandering, or he is receiving income on the side by tech special interests.  Reply

Jul 10, 2010 9:36 AM supportUSworkers supportUSworkers  says:
Many of the comments on this blog indicate that Don is well known to have an extreme bias toward Big Tech corporate interests and the interests of the NASSCOM Indian lobbying group. Sure, Don will throw in an occasional positive blog toward Information Technology workers in attempt to feign objectivity;but if you read through the comments to this blog you will find that the readers generally see through his phony attempt to appear objective, leaving comments like "NASSCOM just missed giving Donnie his little suitcase of rupees this week and this is his ham-handed attempt at a 'warning' to them that the paper betta keep coming."

"Mumbai Don" is just another of a number of people associated with the media who make their living promoting propaganda for Corporate America. One of the biggest and most pervasive of the lies promoted by these people is the "skilled labor shortage" lie. A good description of the situation and the motivations for the lie can be found in the following article:

"Tech firms invent shortage panic" Atlanta Journal-Constitution, November 9, 2009

www.ajc.com/opinion/tech-firms-invent-shortage-190632.html

From the article:

"But what's overlooked is that regardless of economic conditions, companies continue to insist they need to recruit abroad because of the shortage of science, technology, engineering and math graduates produced by schools here.

Their claim doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The latest evidence comes from a study released last month titled "Steady as She Goes?Three Generations of Students Through the Science and Engineering Pipeline." Investigators B.Lindsay Lowell of Georgetown University and Harold Salzman of Rutgers University found that the flow of math and science students is strong - except among high achievers, who are defecting to other majors and fields.

In 2007, the same researchers reported in "Into the Eye of the Storm" that about three STEM graduates exist for every new STEM position, not counting openings caused by retirements.

They also found that two years after graduation, 20 percent of STEM bachelor degree holders were still in school - but not in STEM fields.

Moreover, 45 percent of STEM graduates who were in the workplace were not in STEM jobs.

They concluded that the educational system is producing a supply of qualified STEM graduates far in excess of demand."

-


Supply far in excess of demand. Yet the news media and the Big Tech propaganda machine (YOU) keep telling our students that there is a desperate shortage of skilled tech workers. Much like "disenchanted IT workers" have been saying, it doesn't sound like a shortage.

Now various propagandists doing jobs similar to Don's have come up with various excuses to counter the numerous studies that show there is no shortage of STEM workers. One of these is to claim that they have found better opportunities in other areas of employment.

Found better opportunities? Did they actually find better opportunities, or were they FORCED to work in other areas due to the flooding of the employment market in IT by cheap body shop H-1B labor?

If they were not forced into other fields of employment due to lack of opportunities, then we need to ask why they would go through all of the trouble taking all of those difficult classes and then choose not to take a career in the field that they majored in (remember, the claim is often made that U.S. Reply

Jul 10, 2010 9:36 AM supportUSworkers supportUSworkers  says:
students are "too lazy" to do the difficult classes required for a STEM major).

So again, why would these students leave the STEM fields for other jobs when they spent so much time, effort, and money to major in a STEM field?

Could it be that the jobs simply are not being made available to U.S.students? This seems to be the case.

Here's something for you to do Don. If you are REALLY GENUINELY CONCERNED ABOUT WHY STUDENTS ARE NOT ENDING UP IN STEM FIELDS, I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND A U.S.WEBSITE OR ANY OTHER SOURCE WHERE ENTRY-LEVEL JOBS ARE POSTED FOR U.S.STUDENT GRADUATES IN STEM FIELDS THAT HAS MORE ENTRY-LEVEL JOBS AND TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES POSTED THAN THE INDIAN WEBSITE www.sulekha.com/

Keep in mind, Don, that MANY of these companies listed on Sulekha.com DO NOT TAKE AMERICANS, and if they do, they will somehow not be able to place you in a job like they advertise. Keep in mind that many of these companies advertise a "100% job guarantee". Wow! Can you beat that? A 100% job guarantee! (Of course the standard business practice of most body shops is to just lie, but that's beside the point, right Don?)

Here's a sample ad:

classifieds.sulekha.com/paidadpopup.aspx?cid=3348088

Apex Technology Systems, Inc.One Stop IT Solutions

Offers training in ETL Tools---Informatica

We do Marketing and placement for OPT Students and other qualified consultants.

Excellent benefits:

Labs available for practice 24/7

Training provided by real time experienced faculties

Vigorous Training &Placement

100% job guarantee

Retain the maximum %age of your billing.

Constant up gradation of your skills in latest technologies to keep pace with ever changing market trends.

We will find a project for you if you are looking for one in any platform.

Immediate free H1B transfer for consultants

We file your green card (GC) through PERM right away.

Free food and accommodation for OPT &qualified candidates

ATS offers various IT courses, new batches starts every month......

(Complete in depth training for easy placements)

1.ETL Tools---Informatica

2.Erwin

Join us, we are one of the Leading IT consulting companies of US with proven track record having Fortune 500 companies as our clients.We have an offshore development office in Hyderabad, India.

READERS - Remember my comment about Fortune 500 companies and interviewers knowing that the H-1B candidate has no experience from my comment a few days on Don's first "poor social skills" blog article? WINK, NOD. See the connection? Many of these companies listed on Sulekha have been doing BIG BUSINESS replacing U.S.citizen workers.

Don, my bet is that either you cannot find such a site containing more opportunities (or even similar opportunities) for U.S.citizens to get training and placement than Sulekha.com or that you simply will not answer this comment.

Reply
Jul 12, 2010 7:01 AM Joel Witherspoon Joel Witherspoon  says: in response to supportUSworkers

Don,

supportUSworkers does have a point. While most of a blog is opinion, it has to come from somewhere. Where are the sources of your conclusions?

Reply
Jul 12, 2010 9:43 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Joel Witherspoon

I'm not sure what conclusions you're referring to. If you're referring to the thing about there being a shortage of STEM workers in the U.S., I have never drawn such a conclusion, despite some readers' baseless accusations to the contrary. What I have written is that many IT executives have concluded that there is a shortage of needed IT skills in the U.S., and that we can't allow ourselves to confuse a worker shortage with a skills shortage. In any case, the topic at hand is my stated viewpoint that parents should not discourage their children from pursuing a dream to go into IT. I'm not sure why that was used by a reader to suggest that I have concluded that there is a shortage of STEM workers in the U.S.

Reply
Jul 12, 2010 10:29 AM Layoff Man Layoff Man  says: in response to Don Tennant

Ofcourse all the crook IT executives will tell you there is a shortage of talent so they can grasp more cheap H-1B workers. Being an IT worker is a pain in the @ss to look for job now a day. There are completely two different views and why don't you go down to to earth to interview the needy and suffering workers point of view. Most of your posts are bias toward American IT workers and very  much you are only focused only one rich people side which are the crook and twist CEO's and Executives  that is why all the IT workers around here slam the door on you.

For me I am  out of job since beginning of this year because of H-1B worker replacement I trained, since I am not able to land one single job and it is such a the pain in the @ss to look for job during this type of economy. I have 18 years of experiences in IT   overall and with 8 years of Dot Net experiences is actually useless when I try to compete with the cheap workers out there. If there is a shortage then I could land a job easily but it is the case as I told you I am out of job for 7 months. Definitely there is no such thing shortage of talent or IT as most people indicated.

Reply
Jul 12, 2010 11:04 AM Joel Witherspoon Joel Witherspoon  says: in response to Don Tennant

This comment for one:

"It's hardly a secret that people in the IT profession are disproportionately more likely to have poor social skills than people in other fields. It's widely, openly discussed in the context of such topics as the preponderance of IT people with Asperger's Syndrome. But what isn't so widely discussed is the dark side of being devoid of those skills."

I'd like to see some citations regarding the disproportionate level of social skills in IT versus other professions. I've run into some accountants, lawyers, doctors, etc. that are lacking in these areas as well. I think IT gets a spotlight because its so ubiquitous, but I'd wager you will find similar ratios of miscreants in any profession.

However, to the rabid horde: This is still America, you have choices and you have more choices than the H-1B that was hired. He screws up, he gets shipped back. That is an underlying fear that each one of these people have. Things aren't so rosy in their hometown and having to go back home after coming here is a HUGE disgrace.

If you get replaced, get entrepreneurial. I've worked in IT for 21 years. I've been replaced eight times. I've worked freelance and as a consultant. It can be done. You have to get out of your comfort zone and open up. Screw these companies. The best way to get back at them is to compete with them. And you can.

Here's an example: Do you remember when people put their money in big banks because they were "personable, solid and stable?" Then Lincoln S&L screwed it all up. Soon after, the bullet proof glass went up, the fees went up but the interest rates went down. They got less personable and downright hostile. The result was the rise of the credit union. Small, personal banks with higher interest rates, less fees, and more services...and personable to boot.

Here's what you have to do. Get personable. Fall in love with what you do. The big companies are faceless and heavily regulated. The make decisions on cost/benefit ONLY. They don't love what they do. They love the profit they make from what they do. You can undercut them and still turn a profit. And in this industry word of mouth makes or breaks you. If you are an asshole it will hurt you. Dell is learning this lesson...again.

Remember that firms want workers, not competition. Pull your former coworkers aside and start a business. The money is there, you have to go get it.

And for God's sake, if you hate Don so much stop reading his blog.

Reply
Jul 12, 2010 11:51 AM supportUSworkers supportUSworkers  says:

Mumbai Don,

You state in the above article:

"By the way, Dale Carnegie's CEO, Peter Handal, chimed in on the discussion that prompted all of this in the first place, about IT workers who discourage their children from pursuing a dream to work in IT.Here's what Handal had to say:

From a business point of view, just because something is in a cyclical downturn doesn't mean that the five-year or 10-year future of that industry is going to be bad.The economy is so vibrant and so changeable, and things turn around so quickly, it's really silly to try to make that kind of forecast.Find out what your child likes and what the child is good at, and help the child develop those likes and abilities.Because I think that's the key to success-doing what you like and doing what you're good at."

Don, do you totally lack reasoning skills? Dale Carnegie's CEO, Peter Handal, is a complete outsider to the IT industry and much like you and the resume book author Catherine Jewell that you mentioned previously, likely has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA OF WHAT IS IS LIKE TO WORK IN INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.

NONE OF YOU HAVE EVER WORKED IN INFOMATION TECHNOLOGY, YET YOU ARE ALL SELF-PROCLAIMED EXPERTS ABOUT THE SUBJECT?

What is more likely is that these two people, like many people in America who are not in IT and who are not minorities, ASSUME THAT WE HAVE A FAIR LABOR MARKET FOR ALL U.S.WORKERS AND THAT OUR RIGHTS TO FAIR EMPLOYMENT ARE PROTECTED BY LAWS (they're not).

Instead, workers in the Information Technology business and other STEM careers are subjected to an exception to the rules that workers in other areas of employment are not subjected to, namely the labor arbitrage program disguised as a skilled foreign worker program that we refer to as H-1B.

Rampant age discrimination, outsourcing, and exploitation of the H-1B program are what have been questioned in many articles about the viability of IT careers, so getting people who are resume book writers and public speaking course vendors and pretending that they know anything about the employment conditions in IT or issues involved with the H-1B labor arbitrage situation are simply the standard smoke and mirrors tactics of an industry shill propagandist.

Here is the link to Dale Carnegie's info on Peter Handal. NOTE THAT IT SHOWS NO INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER IN ANY FORM OR CAPACITY. 

www.dalecarnegie.com/pdfs/press/Infokit/Peter%20V.%20Handal%20Bio.pdf

This blog article is a standard propagandist shill tactic intended to sidestep the real issues.

If these are not shill propaganda efforts on your part, then we have an even bigger problem than we thought: Such a blatant mistake in logic would indicate that you have absolutely no scientific reasoning abilities at all and that YOU ARE BASICALLY SCIENTIFICALLY ILLITERATE.

Tell us, Don, did you not take any of the "difficult science and math classes" that you and industry continuously rail about U.S.students as not having?

This brings us to another point: Most corporate leaders in this country are also science and math illiterates and fall short when it comes to real reasoning. I find it interesting how they rail about the science and math skills of U.S. Reply

Jul 12, 2010 11:51 AM supportUSworkers supportUSworkers  says:
students, yet have no advanced science and math skills themselves.

The key to your blatant logic error is in Peter Handal's statement "from a business point of view...". Does he (and you) really think that we don't know that the economy and businesses go through cyclical downturns? Cyclical downturns are not the issue with telling kids not to go into Information Technology;outsourcing, exploitation of the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, and rampant age discrimination are the real issues we should be discussing when talking about Information Technology careers, not social skills. Age discrimination is not cyclical Don, and once you reach 40 in IT employers don't want to hire you anymore and will always favor the fresh out of college students and exploitable foreign labor. Not only that, but taking Peter Handal for his words "from a business point of view..." indicates exactly that, i.e.the viewpoint is from a businessman, not someone who knows what is going on in Information Technology. Why do many businessmen seem to think they're the smartest people on the planet and that other professionals somehow have no clue about the existence of business cycles?

Use some brains here Don - Information Technology is a field where businesses have continually complained that there is a "shortage" of labor with the skills to do the job, EVEN IN DOWNTURNS. Yet real Information Technology wages have not had wage increases that indicate a shortage of workers (which, unless you are a total IDIOT or a corporate interest propagandist shill you would know that when there are shortages, prices go up-simple Economics 101, not to mention that the same argument is used to justify hugely excessive executive salaries for the management of publicly owned companies).

If YOU were actually SINCERE instead of being a corporate propagandist shill, you would admit that too. So are you going to say that you are not a propagandist corporate shill and yet claim the job market for Information Technology workers somehow doesn't follow Economics 101...what was that other alternative to Economics 101 Donny boy? This implies you ...

A shortage would indicate AMPLE JOBS FOR ANYONE EDUCATED IN STEM FIELDS, NOT FEWER JOB OPPORTUNITIES THAN MOST OTHER FIELDS.

The article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that I posted in my previous comment pretty much lays it all out-more than adequate supply of students educated in STEM fields, industry motives for cheap labor, letters from experienced STEM professionals who were unable to find work in their field at wages commensurate with their backgrounds, not to mention all of the comments posted on this blog.

There is more than adequate information available to indicate that Corporate America is just messing with us.

Here's one that just turned up from Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan's inbox from 1998 that is detailed in a recent Computerworld article:

'Elena's Inbox' details H-1B battle in Clinton White House

www.computerworld.com/s/article/9178806/_Elena_s_Inbox_details_H_1B_battle_in_Clinton_White_House

Quote from the article:

"The issues that were raised in 1998 over the H-1B visa are still debated today, but in late winter of that year, Congress was moving to raise the cap despite Clinton White House skepticism. Reply

Jul 12, 2010 11:51 AM supportUSworkers supportUSworkers  says:

In March of that year, there was a White House meeting with "high tech + advocates," according to a memo sent to Kagan from another administration adviser, Julie Fernandes, that described a push by the tech industry for an increase in the H-1B cap.But it also noted, "Industry was reluctant to discuss long-term solutions and H1B reforms concurrent with our discussion of short-term solutions."

The Clinton administration wanted a cap increase coupled with reform of the H-1B program, and in a note to Kagan, Fernandes wrote about including provisions that would require companies to first try to hire U.S.workers, if the position paid less than $75,000.

Such a provision "calls industry's bluff re:their shortage of really highly skilled and desirable workers."

If you were a student looking for a career and you found a career field that the mainstream media claimed had a shortage of workers, yet still had the characteristics and statistics to indicate that the field was unstable and highly discriminatory toward older workers, would you major in it or recommend that your children major in it? OOPS, I'm sorry-forgot who I was talking to-let me rephrase that-Would a PERSON OF AVERAGE OR ABOVE AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE major in it or recommend that their children major in it? 

Don, if something stinks, eventually people are going to smell it and avoid it.

Reply
Jul 12, 2010 12:27 PM Chicken Hero Chicken Hero  says: in response to supportUSworkers

Well done supportUSworkers ! As you know everybody understands the current problem right now but what can we do to help ?

Don got hire by either NASSCOM or big corporates to do his shill job and he does not care what your writing or IT workers feeling is like a hired assassin disregard or even care the victim feeling or life. That is what exactly he  did for in IT Business Edge for years and I am very sure IT Business Edge knows this joker well but they want him to be there so the site can generate more readers either pro or cons. 

Never mind, all I can say your writing indeed alerts other professionals not only IT workers as well. For me I really appreciated what you did.

I am 100% sure Don never work as IT worker and he never understands  IT workers really are. Out  of his craziness and bad temper he pumped out a bunch of accusation against IT workers it shows he does not care American IT workers at all. Overall,  his job is to flame and blame American IT workers and the other side he promotes cheap workers for the corporates and he did good job at it. His tactics and scheme are kind of cunning and evil but you know what it works like a champ in the past. We must all take a notice on this type of scheme.

Last year I watched the TV on my couch, it showed the Indian bodyshop CEO named "Vineet Nayar"  insulted American "American graduates "unemployable"" , I was so upset and I ran up and kicked my TV on the side. After a while I observed a little longer I saw Bill Gates sitting on the stage. OMG, how can Bill Gates let some one to insult American like that.. I have no idea.. If I was there I will rock the guy on the face. Bill Gates and the rest of the people on stage have no pride and dignity at all.. I have no idea at all. 

A shill is a shill. Does a shill have dignity and pride ? My answers to you even Bill Gate and those corporates don't have nothing to offer but their own profit. Furthermore, that question can be answer by all the IT workers read Tennant's blogs.

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Jul 13, 2010 4:45 AM supportUSworkers supportUSworkers  says: in response to Don Tennant

The "skills shortage" lie - Hippie dude Don tries to duck the subject again:

From your comment:

"If you're referring to the thing about there being a shortage of STEM workers in the U.S., I have never drawn such a conclusion, despite some readers' baseless accusations to the contrary.What I have written is that many IT executives have concluded that there is a shortage of needed IT skills in the U.S., and that we can't allow ourselves to confuse a worker shortage with a skills shortage. I'm not sure why that was used by a reader to suggest that I have concluded that there is a shortage of STEM workers in the U.S.""

More dishonest corporate shill propaganda tactics. The idea is to make as many situations as possible where a foreign H-1B can be hired instead of a U.S.citizen. In this case, so much evidence has been produced over the past decade to show that there is really no actual shortage of STEM workers that the corporate shill propagandists had to change their tactics to promote a "skill shortage" instead of an actual STEM worker shortage.

Every time one lie is debunked, the goal post is moved and replaced with more propaganda. In this case the rather weak claim is made that U.S.workers somehow don't have the current "hot skills" that are necessary to do the job, and that somehow they cannot be trained even though the Foreign Labor Certification data shows that 56% of the H-1B workers are brought in at the LOWEST SKILL LEVEL, i.e.the skill level of a fresh graduate with a bachelor's degree and NO EXPERIENCE. 

56% of H-1Bs have NO EXPERIENCE Don. So much for replacing the "STEM worker shortage" lie with the "skills shortage" lie. Nice try at a slight of hand. 

Yet somehow according the the article I referenced in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution "...45 percent of STEM graduates who were in the workplace were not in STEM jobs" and "two years after graduation, 20 percent of STEM bachelor degree holders were still in school - but not in STEM fields."

So wait a minute here, let's see: 100% - (45% + 20%) = 35%.

So only 35% of U.S.STEM graduates actually make it into a STEM job?

So wait, we now have a lie that we somehow have a "skills shortage" in these latest technologies that can only be filled by inexperienced, fresh out of school foreigners, but not by fresh out of school U.S.citizen students or experienced U.S.workers?

That's a real good one Don.

So what's next? Here's Don "Oh wait, I really didn't mean that. What I really said was _______ (Fill in blank with new lie, move the goal post).

Wait. I know, here's Don "Oh, we have such a shortage of ______ workers in _______ field. These students must be getting hired away by better opportunities in those fields".

Really? The salary and job opportunities in Information Technology are that good huh? Wow, I'll have to urge my kids to go into THAT CAREER!(sarcasm, if you haven't figured that out).

With guys like Don there is always another excuse, always another lie, and I have just caught him right here trying to slip us the "skills shortage" lie. 56% of H-1Bs are inexperienced, fresh out of school students with NO EXPERIENCE IN THESE SUPPOSED "HOT SKILLS", but yet we are supposed to believe that 65% of U.S.students majoring in STEM fields did not really intend to work in STEM fields or could not have been trained in these new technologies just like H-1Bs?  Reply

Jul 13, 2010 4:45 AM supportUSworkers supportUSworkers  says: in response to Don Tennant
Somehow we cannot retrain our existing Information Technology workers who are looking for work in these new technologies, but we can train H-1Bs fresh out of school?

Go ahead Don, give us your next lie and we'll shoot that one down too. If you really think you can support your "skills shortage" lie with 56% of H-1Bs being totally inexperienced, let's hear it. My guess it that what we will hear from you will be no more informative than the comment I am responding to with this posting. Then you will run off with your tail between your legs and change the subject in your next blog like you tried to do with these two "poor social skills" fluff nonsense blogs. 

So regardless of your contentions about imaginary skills shortages, Information Technology and a number of other STEM fields simply are not good fields to go into due to factors like:a low probability of actually getting a job in them once you are out of school, rampant age discrimination, being the number one target for outsourcing, a "disposable worker" mentality among employers, replacement by cheap, exploitable foreign H-1B labor, a general bad attitude among employers, and hordes of special interest lobbyists lobbying to replace you with a foreign H-1B "guest worker". This is why many parents tell their kids not to go into these fields. Wasn't that the original issue Don?

Go ahead Don-open up your mouth and tell more lies so that we can debunk them.

Reply
Jul 13, 2010 4:48 AM supportUSworkers supportUSworkers  says: in response to Don Tennant

Mumbai Don,

You commented:

"I'm not sure what conclusions you're referring to. If you're referring to the thing about there being a shortage of STEM workers in the U.S., I have never drawn such a conclusion, despite some readers' baseless accusations to the contrary. What I have written is that many IT executives have concluded that there is a shortage of needed IT skills in the U.S., and that we can't allow ourselves to confuse a worker shortage with a skills shortage. In any case, the topic at hand is my stated viewpoint that parents should not discourage their children from pursuing a dream to go into IT. I'm not sure why that was used by a reader to suggest that I have concluded that there is a shortage of STEM workers in the U.S."

"I'm not sure what conclusions you're referring to."

Huh?  What?  Put down the crack pipe for a minute and pay attention.  From your blog above:

"It's hardly a secret that people in the IT profession are disproportionately more likely to have poor social skills than people in other fields. It's widely, openly discussed in the context of such topics as the preponderance of IT people with Asperger's Syndrome."

Joel Witherspoon and I are asking where are your sources for coming to this conclusion?

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Jul 15, 2010 4:08 AM mataj mataj  says:

Congratulations! Provoking people with irritating blogs, and complaining about incivility of their responses is the pinnacle of skillful social interaction.

BTW, I dissuaded my kids (as well as many others) from entering the IT profession exactly because I want them to stay healthy and positive. It was fairly easy, I have to say. Since I'm actually working in the field, my opinion counts far more than opinion of some manager, penny-a-liner, or shortage shouter.

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Jul 15, 2010 6:31 AM Chicken Hero Chicken Hero  says: in response to mataj

This guy has gut to play but lack of responsibility when everybody turns their tide on him. Out of his own   anger he starts insulting and putting them down on his own blogs. What low life and  pussy coward writer  like "Don Tenant" I ever seen on the Internet. He loves to use fancy terms to describe things but his knowledge is extremely shallow when coming to IT issues. He never stay in line to beg for government checks like many US IT talents out there right now and he came to stage persuading America is lacking of IT Talents what a bogus piece of sht. Let put it down,  I would say he goes wipe all the US Talent behind for good instead of writing irritate blogs.

Another thing, he like used others crook CEO's voice like "Lawson CEO, Dale Carnegie's CEO, and Peter Handal" to cover his own agenda and later on he points all the fingers at those guys. What an incredible cheap shot and why don't you speak out of yourself or doing research by yourself instead of using some one's voices.. You are not a crook but you are with crooks and helping crooks then you are just another super crook. Just like you are not a terrorist but you are with a terrorist  they you are a terrorist. What a cunning coward pussy cat... Get a real life.

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Jul 16, 2010 8:49 AM mataj mataj  says: in response to Chicken Hero

Sorry, but as an Eastern European, I don't have much sympathy for the woes of the US IT talent. As a matter of fact, I was doing your offshored jobs not so long ago. These jobs are now being further offshored into -believe it or not- North Korea (www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/198555/the_worlds_most_unusual_outsourcing_destination.html ), among others. Well, I'm not complaining. Easy come, easy go, and it was fun while it lasted. Besides, the whole thing is getting just too ridiculous to be complained about.

I responded, because mr.Tenant's opinions are contemptible globally, not just from the US point of view.

College study is the biggest investment most people make in life, in the terms of time, effort, tuition, and opportunity costs. Now, if you con people into misinvesting into the stock market by hyping nonexistent investment opportunities, you can go to jail. Conning people into misinvesting into themselves, however, is far more despicable, yet perfectly legal. And that's what our mr.Tenant does here: Shouting talent shortage during talent glut, thus hyping nonexistent opportunities.

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Jul 16, 2010 8:52 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to mataj

I have never expressed the view that there is a talent shortage. If you want to take issue with me, take issue with what I actually write, not with positions you make up and attribute to me.

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Jul 17, 2010 2:25 AM mataj mataj  says: in response to Don Tennant

O, indeed you haven't mentioned "talent shortage", I see. Inattentive old me. You hype nonexistent opportunities directly instead, not through shortage shouting. You keep saying things like "IT is here to stay", "I can only see IT getting bigger", you claim that IT is critical for competiveness, and so on. Pretty much the same thing as the old twaddling about millions of new jobs IT industry is about to produce somewhere in the future.

Looks like "talent shortage" became sort of dirty word, like "employee morale", "loyalty", "downsizing", and so on. Socially skilled people don't use such words, sure enough. "Employee engagement" is used instead of "employee morale", and talent shortage shouting was recently concealed as "Lack of women in IT" shouting. Very clever move. Talent shortage is presumed implicitly, and nobody can contest it, because debates can easily get derailed, gainsayers branded as male chauvinists.

The old game remains the same, though. Talent glut must be maintained to keep the wages down, the student loan bubble must be inflated indefinitely if possible, and IT thralls must keep on competing in the global race to the bottom.

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Jul 17, 2010 7:47 AM Barbara Hainsworth Barbara Hainsworth  says: in response to mataj

Well, let's see here. In his blog about stealing our kids dreams, he accused us parents of setting our kids up for lifelong unhappiness and actually SHORTENING THEIR LIVES because we had the gall to warn them about the economic and global realities that had come crashing down on us, and which also prevailed for their future, and which were as real as gravity. I thought that was pretty gauche myself, anyone else feel that way?

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Jul 18, 2010 8:25 AM mataj mataj  says: in response to Barbara Hainsworth

Methinks it's kinda medeival. According to this blog, IT professionalism is hereditary, like serfdom. Basically, the author is bashing peasants for failing to procreate for their landlord, the IT industry.

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