Second Infosys Whistleblower Documented 'Illegal' Activity, Pleaded for Action

Don Tennant

As Infosys struggles to portray Jay Palmer as a lone wolf who's spreading "falsehoods" about the company in an effort to secure a lucrative financial settlement, the facts of the visa fraud case are getting in the way. Among the many facts that Infosys management would no doubt prefer you not know is that a second whistleblower, who has a background in immigration matters, and who was working in Infosys' human resources department, repeatedly pleaded with the company to take action to stop what this whistleblower characterized as illegal activity - the same documented activity that compelled Palmer to file the lawsuit that in turn prompted the U.S. government's ongoing criminal investigation of Infosys.

 

I will not identify this second whistleblower, who has not gone public as Palmer has, and who has since left Infosys. For ease of readability, I will refer to this person in this post as "Whistler."

 

On December 28, 2010, Whistler sent an email to Jeffrey Friedel, Infosys' corporate counsel, and Lynne Grant, Infosys' employee relations manager. Whistler explained the purpose of the email:

I want to provide again (in writing) the illegal activities I see on a daily basis that have still not been remedied and again offer to use my expertise to help clean up the B-1 visa problems. I want to reiterate -- I have an intense immigration background from a large US company employing approximately 3,000 foreign nationals throughout the US. This background is what allowed me to recognize the illegal immigration practices I have witnessed while at Infosys. I have been employed with this company for almost three years now and am appalled at the non-compliance and illegalities I continue to see.

Whistler spelled out the areas of non-compliance, beginning with Form I-9, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services form that verifies an employee's identity and establishes that the worker is eligible to accept employment in the United States:

When I started working for Infosys in April 2008 I was immediately aware that there were problems with I-9 compliance. When I continued to bring up the issue to my manager I was told "don't worry, this is the responsibility of the Immigration department" (which takes direction out of India) and "what we don't know won't hurt us." If ICE were to come into the [Infosys] Plano [Texas] office and actually view the I-9 forms and also the electronic storage system, the fines for incorrectly completed forms and forms with incorrect documentation would be astronomical. Should ICE or the USCIS conduct an audit at any of the Infosys offices or arrive at our client sites across the US -- the question will be to the employee -- Did the person who signed your I-9 form actually see your documents? In many cases the answer will be no.

Whistler went on to describe the now-famous B-1 visa problem:

Employees from India currently in the US on B-1 (Business visas) are physically working at client sites and Infosys is billing for their work. Completely illegal in that a B-1 visa is only valid for entry into the US for various meetings and training. To perform work on a B-1 visa is illegal. This was the basis for my Whistleblower email to Infosys. Since these employees do not have valid work authorization and are unable to apply for a SSN, they are told to only stay in the US for 4-8 weeks. They are unable to apply for a driver's license, open a bank account or rent an apartment. Most importantly -- the employee is working in the US and neither the employee nor Infosys pays US Taxes. I find it appalling that our managers would encourage employees to enter another country illegally and then cripple them in their ability to open a bank account, rent a car, obtain necessary health insurance (including worker's comp, disability benefits, etc). This is inexcusable. I have emails from employees stating they are here working on B-1 visas.

Whistler then outlined the problem of Infosys and its employees failing to pay federal, state and local taxes:

I recently became aware of employees working for large, well-known clients in the Banking and Capital markets industries in New Jersey who have listed their work location as New York in our systems. So in April of 2009 when the client moved the project from New York to New Jersey, the managers and employees did not change their work location. Meaning for over a year and a half these employees and Infosys have not been paying the correct Federal, State and Local taxes. This is a common practice by Infosys managers and employees alike throughout the US. I had to explain to an employee who would have been eligible for New Jersey State disability that I cannot file in NJ as there will be no record of the employee in the NJ tax database and I will not fraudulently file in New York. This employee should have been eligible for disability.

 


Another issue I raise is that employees who are working on H-1Bs (approximately 80% of the 15,000 US employees) are required to file a new LCA [Labor Condition Application] and an amended I-129 [Petition for a Nonimmigrant Work Visa] petition with the USCIS any time their work location changes within 50 miles of the old location or anytime the state location changes. I firmly believe the USCIS will find that since many of the Infosys employees do not report their location changes, LCA's have not been filed to reflect the same.

Whistler went on to describe the stress of the situation and to plead that action be taken:

All of the above are not random incidents within the company and I am stressed and feel dejected that I have not been given the opportunity to help stop the illegal activities. I brought this forward because I am tired of working for a company who on a daily basis blatantly breaks the law and when someone brings up the issue they are fired, let go or told to look the other way. The illegal and/or unethical practices going on here are a risk to the stellar reputation of Infosys in India and throughout the world. The day to day stress of seeing illegal practices from an HR stand point is incredible. I have no problem with another culture or country profiting, however it should be legally obtained profit. Infosys made a billion dollars profit last year off the US and much of it due to illegal practices. I firmly believe that those who are not part of solution are part of the problem and I came forward because I want to be part of the solution. I have filed for Whistleblower protection and hope I can make a difference and still retain my job. ... I feel it is critical for Infosys to be compliant in all areas, especially immigration. With our high ratio of foreign nationals and also the fact that we are classified as an H-1B dependent company, I would suspect we would be an automatic target for audits from the DOL, USCIS and ICE.

 

I would like to use my expertise and experience to make a difference. Kindly provide more detailed feedback to let me know what steps we are taking to eliminate these issues. You say you cannot discuss them with me; however I am part of the HR team.

Unfortunately, it appears all of that fell on deaf ears. On February 24, 2011, Whistler emailed Friedel to express concern about the lack of action. This excerpt will give you the gist:

Without a policing force (me -- since I have the motivation to abide by US law and the immigration knowledge) there is no cost-effective way to stop this illegality. You can make changes to the systems, however there are ways around the systems when the managers are clearly driven by profits, pressure and greed to engage in this activity. Having the BPHR's [Business Partner Human Resources managers] monitor this is also a futile move. Many of the BPHR's are more dedicated to Infosys and the managers than to US law. They will not make waves with the managers, especially when they don't really understand how immigration law relates to B-1 visas. I have real concerns about the lack of follow up I have experienced since filing for whistleblower protection. This is extremely frustrating and very stressful that you have not included me in the B-1 or I-9 clean up. I have brought up serious allegations but from my perspective Infosys is either denying or ignoring the issues -- or demonstrating a token effort at resolution.

Now, consider all of this in the light of Infosys' response to Palmer's testimony to a Senate subcommittee hearing on immigration reform last week, in which he described these very problems. That response, which was attributed to Infosys Chief Marketing Officer Paul Gottsegen, claimed that Palmer's testimony was "full of inaccuracies, exaggerations and falsehoods," and that Palmer "is obviously intent on spreading his falsehoods about Infosys and our business practices as broadly as possible in order to advance his objective of getting as big of a payout as he can from the Company."

 

It's unclear to me how Infosys could have believed that none of this other information would eventually come out, and that a statement like the one released by Gottsegen wouldn't come back to haunt the company. Perhaps Infosys gambled that none of the evidence would become public because the company would either settle with Palmer (the odds of that aren't looking too good for Infosys, since Palmer has said that being called a liar has made him more determined than ever to see the case go to trial), or that its motion to compel arbitration in the case would be approved so that the dirty laundry could be aired behind closed doors (that motion is still under consideration by a federal judge in Alabama).

 

In any case, you can't blame Whistler for not wanting to go public the way Palmer has. Palmer has been threatened, ostracized, prevented from going to work, and now publicly branded by his employer as a liar. The toll on him and his family has been unfathomable, all because he had the courage to come forward and do the right thing.

 

But let's not forget Whistler's courage, either. I, for one, can't read those emails without admiring the courage and fortitude it took to send them. And I'm very confident that valiant effort will not have been made in vain.



Add Comment      Leave a comment on this blog post
Aug 3, 2011 1:04 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Madagasper

Their customers should just take their business elsewhere.

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Aug 3, 2011 1:54 AM Madagasper Madagasper  says: in response to Don Tennant

The following comment by Whistler is the most important passage in your post:

"I have no problem with another culture or country profiting, however it should be legally obtained profit. Infosys made a billion dollars profit last year off the US and much of it due to illegal practices."

Whistler's first sentence above contains the essence of modern India and Indians.  Which is a culture of getting ahead by using every crooked method and breaking rules when it suits them, and then bragging about it.  It is not uncommon for Indians to boast about how they obtained something by "using influence" or through some devious trick.  This is a cultural shortcoming, something in the water of India's social stream, and whenever you mention it to Indians they immediately get defensive about it.  If it comes from a white man, he is instantly labeled a racist.  Look at all the Indian billionaires in India.  The only way they made all that money is through their proximity to bigger crooks (aka Indian politicians) and not through any technological or business breakthroughs.

By the way what about other companies like TCS and Wipro?  Are we to believe that they are different from Infosys in this respect?

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Aug 3, 2011 2:33 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Madagasper

Personally, I don't believe for a minute that they're any different. But until people at companies like TCS and Wipro have the courage to do what Palmer and Whistler have done, all we can do is speculate. What made the Infosys case the game-changer is that Palmer had the courage to go public with what he knew.

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Aug 3, 2011 2:50 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says:

In response to this:

"All they have to do is an audit. Why won't ICE just do it? Why?"

Let's just say the feds are aware of Whistler's complaint and what's going on in Plano. There's a reason why the Grand Jury subpoena in the criminal investigation was issued by a U.S. District Court in Texas.

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Aug 3, 2011 3:22 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Don Tennant

It's not just that Infosys and the others like them have a business model that involves displacing American breadwinners. It's that their business model IS displacing American breadwinners. And they had the gall to threaten to go to the WTO when we tried to put the brakes on it even to a small degree (visa fee hike, Neufeld memo).

America had a roaringly profitable IT industry, employing American workers, for decades. Then some Indians (I saw there was even a TV news feature about this) go the idea to just up and take it from us, and our government looked the other way.

It has taken this long to get a modicum of attention from our government. It's been a long decade!

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Aug 3, 2011 3:30 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says:

"Whistler" is an even more damaging witness than Jay.  Jay was a manager, Whistler was in HR and was in the middle of it all.

Smearing the employee as "disgruntled" is the MO for all corporations.  There could be a thousand witnesses and Chamat would see "1000 liars".

What Chamat doesn't get is that blowing the whistle requires personal sacrifice.  It's much easier for people to look the other way or just walk away.  When people do this, they are really subjecting themselves to stress and loss of income.

Chamat is brave enough to use a pseudonym and insult people who are putting it all on the line.  Chamat - you're no Jay Palmer and you're certainly no Whistler.  

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Aug 3, 2011 4:03 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to R. Lawson

Definitely does take courage, because the smear campaign would (almost certainly) ruin your career path.

I think the government needs to force disclosure in how Visas are being used.  This information would help our government more effectively administer the program. 

Simply hiding our heads in the sand (let business do as they will), will cause damage to our economy.  When our economy mixes with slower economies such as those in India and China, it causes wages to drop.  We (Republicans and Democrats) need to realize that we can't make these strategic mistakes.  Just like people who are owned by their mortgages, we must think strategically about jobs, because the National Debt owns us.

I believe the economy moves like cars on the freeway.  It is a free-for-all.  And when it is unregulated and heavily used, we get traffic jams (aka recessions), funny how recession alway follows a boom (aka housing boom for this one).  Yet, put a few stop-lights on the entrance way, you can actually speed up the freeway.  That is the reason why we must control how visas are used, and limit the number of visas provided.

Jobs must be able to provide revenue to service and pay back government debt, help us lower taxes (definitely), and provide a living wage (in order to motivate) for workers.  This (oddly) is a goal shared by Republicans and Democrats (just like the freeway is shared).

That is why (or a big part of) talking about immigration reform cannot be just about making entry into the United States a GEO-Free-for-all.

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Aug 3, 2011 4:45 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to SealTeam6

I have insurance (errors and omissions) through The Hartford.  Looks like it's time to shop around again.  I mean really, they get $400 a year for nothing.  Nobody files E&O claims... just one of those things required in some contracts.

Well, I take that back.  Infosys may have some E&O claims to file because of their error, which will impact projects, of illegal staffing.  My guess is that most insurers would deny a claim caused by a violation of law.

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Aug 3, 2011 5:27 AM Shaktimaan Shaktimaan  says: in response to R. Lawson

I somewhat agree with Chamat. It would be disrespect to a court to jump on the conclusion before the judge decides.  What we are hearing all these days are just one sided story and adulterated information. Let the court decide and then we can discuss who is brave or who is Liar.

Using pseudonym is also perfectly acceptable in any public forum. If you or anyone else reveal his identity doesn't mean its a norm or right thing to do. You may go ahead and post your bank details but dont expect others to do the same stupidity.

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Aug 3, 2011 5:36 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to Shaktimaan

"I somewhat agree with Chamat. It would be disrespect to a court to jump on the conclusion before the judge decides."

No, it's disrespectful to Infosys and I can live with that.  Infosys wants to avoid the courts and have a judge arbitrate.  Jay Palmer wants a jury.  Why is Infosys so afraid to let a jury hear this case?

"What we are hearing all these days are just one sided story and adulterated information."

Infosys is free to speak up on their own behalf.  When asked about the case their response is "no comment".  Sorry, but the one-sided talk is the fault of Infosys, not anyone else.

Infosys is the bully and perpetrator here.  Stop acting as if they are the victim.

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Aug 3, 2011 5:45 AM who knows who knows  says: in response to Madagasper

You got nothing but spread Insult on fellow Indians!!!

"It is not uncommon for Indians to boast about how they obtained something by "using influence" or through some devious trick.  This is a cultural shortcoming, something in the water of India's social stream, and whenever you mention it to Indians they immediately get defensive about it."

And you think this is only specific to India and Indians no other countries in the world this issue exist ??? What you have done to solve the problem other than brag about it in the blog ??? If you can't be part of the solution you have no say about the problem. This issue is there in every country and at different level and deep. If you can't understand that then you can't be reasonable person to discuss about it.

Other than Jay Palmer and "whisler" every individual who plays role in the immigration fraud does the same devious trick. If you think none other than Palmer and Whisler knows about this issue then it will be pure blunt lie.

"If it comes from a white man, he is instantly labeled a racist. "

So you decided to declare yourself Indian just to make sure you won't labeled as racist.

"Look at all the Indian billionaires in India.  The only way they made all that money is through their proximity to bigger crooks (aka Indian politicians) and not through any technological or business breakthroughs."

I think you have envy those people who become billionaires...otherwise you have nothing to do with their growth. And do you think all billionaires in other part of the worlds are only through technological and business breakthroughs ?

"By the way what about other companies like TCS and Wipro?  Are we to believe that they are different from Infosys in this respect?"

This is the only question which is related to this forum on your whole story rest is useless rubbish from race other than Indian in the name of Indian.

Every fraud and illegal activities has to be punished and it doesn't require to label with the country of origin.

At the least others have courage to say what they want to say...without any cover-up story...you are one of the cowards who decided to brag in the name of Indian. Or you decided to add those rubbish information to give some spicy news for others.

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Aug 3, 2011 5:56 AM who knows who knows  says: in response to Jake_Leone

"I think the government needs to force disclosure in how Visas are being used.  This information would help our government more effectively administer the program. "

There is already disclosure (on how they plan to use the visa there) which is part of the application. Only problem is there is very less/negligible validation on how really it was used.

As the "Whistler" stated...if at all one visit by ICE happened in the past this issue could have be stopped right there. Instead they decided to let it go as long as it can and decided that any company of this big will always go by rules.

"When our economy mixes with slower economies such as those in India and China, it causes wages to drop. "

Hope "slower" mean cheaper labor force ....otherwise both India and China is fast growing economy.

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Aug 3, 2011 6:59 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to who knows

Indians are the worst crooks in the world :P

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Aug 3, 2011 7:12 AM ctrl alt del ctrl alt del  says: in response to Shaktimaan

The information is not adulterated - this has been going on since the early 90's. The game is now over and the temp worker bodyshops have been exposed. Infoscam isn't the only guilty racketeer - they are merely the current plat du jour. More will inevitably follow as the evidence is being exposed. The truth is going to come out and everyone knows what it is - do we really need a court's ruling to verify it? The jury aquitted OJ so he MUST be innocent then? The indian temp worker business model stands in a less than desirable light these days, and it's hard to to be on the team but your responses are akin to tobacco executives parading around claiming cigarettes aren't deadly. Absurd.

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Aug 3, 2011 7:24 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to who knows

Slower economy uses more man-hours to produce the same unit as the faster economy.

Bear in mind this does not mean "backward" or "less intelligent", it is simply a matter-of-fact comparison of methods.

Definitely economies are catching up.  But that catch-up doesn't necessarily mean more efficiency in terms of labor.  For example, at the Behringer factory in China, (there is a video on this) Uli is very proud of his factory, yet in the video on this you can see that people are used primarily used in place of robotics.  People are cheaper.  This is another form of "slower", where human bodies are used in place of work more efficiently and quickly performed by machines.  Stamping, screwing, cutting, hammering, done by people, instead of machines in the typical U.S. factory.

Similarly, in software, there is the "Mythical-Man-Month", where-in the concept of simply adding more (cheaper/expensive it doesn't matter) people, doesn't equate to a faster or higher quality delivery of product. 

Experience and quality of your workers is actually a more important factor, in the Software Industry.  To this end, replacing your experienced workers with trainees is often detrimental to the quality of the product and the speed at which it is developed.  But, managers (usually inexperienced bean counters or worse lawyers wanting to avoid a domestic workers) are motivated by the sales pitch of a lower-cost, compliant workforce. With lip-service delivered product managers sign a company's brand away, many times resulting in the next Vista.

To a manager, gambling other people's money (Brand, good-name) is the way to go.

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Aug 3, 2011 7:32 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to who knows

There is hardly any disclosure.  Companies, always refuse any official enquiry.

Congress asked Microsoft for information on the numbers of visa'd workers versus domestic worker being let go in layoff.  Microsoft refused to say.

Congress asked Indian offshore outsourcing companies to detail their visa used, they refused.

Even when legally required, they don't disclose. 

You must not even care about this issue, because Jay's testimony and the statements of the 2nd whistle-blower clearly indicate that InfoSys is not updating its official documents when the people here on Visa move to a different location. Which a legal disclosure requirement, InfoSys apparently scoffs at.

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Aug 3, 2011 8:08 AM B1H1 B1H1  says:

Can anyone comment on this. Many companies I know that include the likes of Big IT outsourcers use this provision. I think the allegation may also be due to the fact of lesser information and perspective of interpretation!

The B1 in lieu of an H1B

In certain, limited circumstances the US Consulate may issue an employment-authorized B1 visa where the work to be undertaken would usually require an H1B visa. This provision is particularly applicable to situations where you may need a non-US company to send a member of staff to the US for a limited period in order to undertake specific projects for you, or where you wish to bring in an employee of an overseas subsidiary, affiliate or parent for a limited period. The requirements for acquiring a B1 in lieu of H1B are:-

.The work to be undertaken in the US must be H1B level-i.e. the worker must be engaged in a 'speciality occupation';

.The worker must permanently employed (i.e. not a contractor) and paid by the employer outside the US;

.The worker may receive no compensation other than expenses from a US source;

.The worker must have a degree relevant to the services to be provided- there is no provision for work experience to be considered equivalent to adegree, as there is under the H1B.

The B1 in lieu of H-1 visa generally takes 1 to 2 weeks to obtain, and considerably more supporting documentation is required than for a normal B1 visa. Periods of admission and extension are the same as for the standard B1 visa (i.e. generally 6 months).

If the necessary conditions are satisfied then the applicant can apply for a visa. If you would like to find out if you qualify, you may fill out our US visa assessment form.

It should be noted that in rare circumstances, holders of this visa encounters problems when trying to enter the US.

This is because while it is issued by a US Consulate or Embassy, it has not been formally recognized by US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). For more information, please contact a member of our staff.

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Aug 3, 2011 8:12 AM who knows who knows  says: in response to Jake_Leone

Are you suggesting even if it is legally required they can just ignore and nothing could be done !!!!

Either this is not true or in US laws are not as strong as it was spoken for.

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Aug 3, 2011 8:51 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to who knows

It called scoffing at the law.

Most reported crimes are not proscecuted, and those that are not reported are never investigated.  Additionally failing to file a form falls below the radar in most Federal departments.  That is exactly what InfoSys has been failing to do, at least since 2008.

If Jay had not blown the whistle, InfoSys would probably never keep the documents up to date.  After all, filing a new LCA, might require a raise in salary for an H-1b worker.  If it is never filed, and the Feds never find out, then InfoSys can pocket the difference.

In the United States, search without probable cause, is prohibited, it is in the U.S. Constitution.  And even with probable cause you will probably need a search warrant.  It protects us.  But it also shields criminal activity.

While scoffing at the law is illegal, much like Jay Walking (there's a pun) it often goes unpunished.  Anytime you see companies gaming the system, you can bet there is lawyer behind that telling them what the odds are, no doubt InfoSys's legal counsel is part of the conspiracy.

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Aug 3, 2011 8:55 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Jake_Leone

"Similarly, in software, there is the "Mythical-Man-Month", where-in the concept of simply adding more (cheaper/expensive it doesn't matter) people, doesn't equate to a faster or higher quality delivery of product. "

Yes....You can't expect three women to have a baby in three months ...LOL!!!

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Aug 3, 2011 9:51 AM who knows who knows  says: in response to Jake_Leone

I do understand scoffing at the law....but my previous comment is nothing to do with scoffing at the law. I got it based on your comments (below)

"There is hardly any disclosure.  Companies, always refuse any official enquiry."

I don't under stand how can a company which is formed under law can refuse to share any details on official inquiry. Buy default that will raise all legal issue just for refusing to co-operate offical inquiry.

And if I am not wrong Congress has the authority to create law (reason they are called as law makers) in such case how can a company just like that deny answer them without there is a legal provision to do so.

PS: I do understand that there is speed limit in every road (expect some freeways) and people still drive above speed limit with the belief odds of getting caught is 1 in 100000 (based on traffic that road takes).

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Aug 3, 2011 9:57 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

The hits keep coming... I hope "Whistler" also files a suit. This definitely cracks the illusion that Infosys is trying to build against Palmer being a lone case. Looking at these cases makes me wonder whether ICE needs to create a cadre of officers who are specifically assigned to a large company like Infosys that apply for a lot of such visas to process the assembly line of sometimes specious visa applications. That way Infosys Inc cannot play fast and furious from the bottom of the deck.

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Aug 3, 2011 10:18 AM Chamat Chamat  says:

Hmm..so may be there are two liars instead of one!!! 

I would prefer to wait and watch instead of jumping the gun like Don.

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Aug 3, 2011 10:22 AM jake_leone jake_leone  says: in response to who knows

Congressional Representatives can ask all they want for more information, companies can refuse (they have almost always refused to divulge detail information, when asked, on their usage of visa).  I believe Congress (this would be more than one Congressional Representative) can subpoena information, but I am sure it is a long drawn out process, and it does come up from time to time.

People have the right not to be searched and siezed, even from Congress.  If a company can prove, in court, that Congress has no legal reason (I.E. probable cause would be one reason) they can keep Congress out of their business.

Probable cause could mean a witness (AHA we have one this time!), which witnessed a crime (or knows of documents that detail a criminal conspiracy).  But in this case, it is already being criminally investigated, so Congress can wait (why waste time on it, after the budget mess was bad enough, and now they have recess (vacation)).

Just do a search Sara, enlighten yourself.  The two cases I meantioned Congressmen asking for info on Visa usage by Indian Outsourcing companies, and Congressmen asking for information on layoffs at Microsoft are common public knowledge.

Yes, if Congress wanted to pass a law about disclosure, they probably could in this case.  But, companies could challenge the law and it could be found unconstitutional.  Government doesn't have the right to know everything a company does, and I believe there would still have to probable cause for the divestiture of information.  Government could make such divestiture a requirement for Visa usage, yes that's the way to go.  Why haven't they, God only knows, but it is coming to that.

And let's be clear, the extra information would be:

- In any layoff, what is the demographic of that layoff, how many people on Visa are being laid off.

- For any company that is using any Visa.  Are you displacing any worker with this Visa, if so and are found to have done so, are you willing to immediately forgo that Visa and allow displaced worker to resume their job, and pay them back wages?  Have you actively looked for U.S. citizen first, and expectation of real evidence this has occured, for a miminum amount of time (say 3-6 months) first.  Are you willing to submit the resumes of all people who applied for the position (assuming the applicants are willing to share their resume).  If a U.S. citizen applies, are you willing to hire them for the position?

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Aug 3, 2011 10:34 AM Indian_tatti Indian_tatti  says: in response to Chamat

Champat:

We are also with FEDS....lol..

u don't know who we are, so called Infosys Management threatening to kill us also.

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Aug 3, 2011 10:35 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to jake_leone

You know when I first started out in this work, I was only being paid minimum wage.

Now that was more than 20 years ago.

The fact that InfoSys is undercutting the minimum wage means that many U.S. citizens are being shut out of these, Very Desirable, jobs.  And depriving the United States of the ability to develop new Computer Science workers.

Back then minimum job requirements didn't start at a "Master's in Computer Science".  And the job that I did back then (Scripting, Database Queries, and ETL programming), is the exact same job we hire guys with the Master's degree today. 

Clearly, ETL jobs, scripting jobs they don't require a Master's in Computer Science.  They require only 2 years of training at Community College, that is the bulk of Computer work, and the work hasn't changed for most IT organization.

The technology has changed, Yes It's 10x easier to use, It's 10,000x faster (that cuts the boredom).

But the nature of the junior level work hasn't changed. 

And if you know the basics of a Relational Database, Can do an SQL Join, understand Foreign/Primary Key, can script on a Linux system, you are qualified to do 90% of the (starting support) work at my company.  And my company services thousand of other IT organizations.

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Aug 3, 2011 10:37 AM jake_leone jake_leone  says: in response to Jake_Leone

-Relational Database,

-Can do an SQL Join,

-understand Foreign/Primary Key,

-can script on a Linux system

And by the way, this stuff is 20+ years old.

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Aug 3, 2011 11:08 AM who knows who knows  says: in response to Madagasper

Here is a news for you to learn how great some people can be...one from India...

Person name is Arokiadoss working in a canteen (hardly will be getting salary of $100/month ...) blessed with baby girl but little queen was under weight.

Enjoyed this world for just 2 days and passed away...he don't even have enough money for funerals but you know what he had great heart...he donated 2 eyes of his little queen..Don't get into judgement that he sold those eyes...he donated it. To me he is god/saint or whatever the highest level a soul can be.

There are always worst and best people in every country, race, and religion.

Some people say "Indians are the worst crooks in the world" but they forgot that US is number one country in "% people in prison" (just 2million). It has the most number of Drug& Alcohol abuse %...close to 9% of total population. And they just release/don't accept any more people in to prison who got convicted for minor cases just because they can't accommodate due to space constrain.

It doesn't mean they are crooks...it is not because of US...it is because of personal characters some has which lead them to prison. It is all about how you want to see it..."Is the glass half empty or half full"...for me it is half full.

Every person has a responsibility in keeping their society clean and safe...just paying tax won't get you anything...you have to be part of solution otherwise there is no reason (moral/ethical) to complain about it.

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Aug 3, 2011 11:54 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to who knows

Well..hate to burst your bubble, but in the US one can't bribe their way out of their crimes. Whereas in India, you can bribe the cops and avoid jail time :P

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Aug 3, 2011 12:07 PM Pro Pro  says:

When does this case go on trial? Both the Civil and Criminal case?

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Aug 3, 2011 12:16 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Pro

The status of the civil case is that Infosys has filed a motion to compel arbitration instead of having a trial, and Palmer's attorney has filed a motion against that so it can go to trial in federal court. Where it stands now is we're waiting for the federal judge to make the decision about whether to approve or deny Infosys' motion for arbitration. There is no criminal case at this point. There is an ongoing U.S. government criminal investigation. Whether there will be a criminal trial will depend on the outcome of the investigation and how the government wants to proceed.

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Aug 3, 2011 12:20 PM BT1024 BT1024  says:

Would infosys' "dirty laundry" still make it out into the open (into the public eye) as a result of the Federal investigation ? (even if they settle their civil case with Palmer, out of court)...

Is it correct to assume that in the end, all of the details of what infosys' was doing will make it out into the open ?

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Aug 3, 2011 12:29 PM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Don Tennant

Tata filed more than one motion to compell arbitration in the tax refund case, they were denied.

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Aug 3, 2011 12:32 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to BT1024

My answer to that is yes, it is correct ot assume that in the end, all of the details of what Infosys was and is doing will make it out into the open. There are any number of ways for that to happen. But I would say you can rest assured it will happen.

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Aug 3, 2011 12:50 PM Madagasper Madagasper  says:

Some Americans never learn:

www.hartfordbusiness.com/news19768.html

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Aug 3, 2011 12:55 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Madagasper

Yeah, I saw that. You have to wonder about their due diligence.

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Aug 4, 2011 2:12 AM Indian_tatti Indian_tatti  says: in response to Pro

B1 frauds would have left long back and will not come again to US.

In any case they will not be able to cross POE. You need to send an email and lots of faxes to the US Immigration dept and convince them that B1 visitors from Infosys are fraud.

Already there is lots of cases in New York POE, some times they do something happy ending also.

Jack Parmer case is not strong as he has not provided any proof to public, no one can be sure what is happening. Only Internal FEDS should be aware of this.

Rest, Japan has confirmed Open trade agreement with India starting from Sep01 2011. Now Indian IT companies are going to send Fake Resumes to japan and result will be same - BANKRUPTCY filed.

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Aug 4, 2011 2:17 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to SealTeam6

HELL NO!!!

Even if companies hire people from other regions within the SAME state, there will be riots,bandhs,rasta roko,rail roko.....blah!!!

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Aug 4, 2011 4:09 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Indian_tatti

LOL....The indians will be good little boys and girls in Japan. Only in the US we let them trample all over us :P

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Aug 4, 2011 6:57 AM RAJESH RAJESH  says: in response to Madagasper

Mr Madagascar,

What you have written about Indian companies is more true of American

companies. Talk about Enron etc etc. The Union carbide which was responsible of over 20,000 deaths. How about all the big Oil companies and

their concessions in Alaska and other countries. What about Coca Cola selling poison drinks. I thinks as you rightly suspect , you are a racist and jeolous. You guys are jealous . If their is some procedure that has not been followesd then that can be seen into. Do not think that if you mistreat Indian companies, then American companies will do buissness in India. India and Indian people will throw out all your coca cola  etc etc.

We done that before and we can do it again

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Aug 4, 2011 7:29 AM asg asg  says:

I really don't understand how is this whistleblowing. It is an attempt by some worker to market himself (most likely s/he was to be laid off and made a pitch to his boss). All this talk about B1 is moot considering that short term visa holders are not considered residents and there fore exempt from any tax requirement.

I don't know why there is such a hue and cry over this. Imagine yourself going for some trip say a vacation or even work related or training trip for couple of months to a different country and your assets are taxed by that country. Is it reasonable.

Second how does work location change from NY to NJ affect Federal tax, secondly how do local tax get affected. And how does he know correct state tax has not been filed (I though filing tax was indivdual responsibility - since when has that become employer's responsibility).

I really hold Americans in high esteem. Please don't show to the world that it is really not so. And to target some corporation for extorting money, Americans can resort to any kind of non sense.

These issues are just overblown and from inside knowledge I can tell you that there is major deal in the pipeline - I think some one is making an PR attempt to derail it.

  So don't waste time getting at each other's throat using all sorts of examples. Firstly that is not good, second it leads to health loss, third it will not solve anything, fourth you urself will be under tension affection your close ones.

Let the people who think they are affected fight it out (of course in court room). Peace

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Aug 4, 2011 7:41 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to RAJESH

Please do throw out American companies. They are using their sales abroad to justify offshore outsourcing, claiming that you guys are going to be the big money market for them that we once were, so they don't need us any more. By all means, show them the door. By the time they dust themselves off and try to be American companies again, we'll all be drinking Faygo.

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Aug 4, 2011 7:56 AM B1H1 B1H1  says: in response to asg

No one seems to explain this! Companies can use B1 to work. Don! any thoughts

The B1 in lieu of an H1B

In certain, limited circumstances the US Consulate may issue an employment-authorized B1 visa where the work to be undertaken would usually require an H1B visa. This provision is particularly applicable to situations where you may need a non-US company to send a member of staff to the US for a limited period in order to undertake specific projects for you, or where you wish to bring in an employee of an overseas subsidiary, affiliate or parent for a limited period. The requirements for acquiring a B1 in lieu of H1B are:-

.The work to be undertaken in the US must be H1B level-i.e. the worker must be engaged in a 'speciality occupation';

.The worker must permanently employed (i.e. not a contractor) and paid by the employer outside the US;

.The worker may receive no compensation other than expenses from a US source;

.The worker must have a degree relevant to the services to be provided- there is no provision for work experience to be considered equivalent to adegree, as there is under the H1B.

The B1 in lieu of H-1 visa generally takes 1 to 2 weeks to obtain, and considerably more supporting documentation is required than for a normal B1 visa. Periods of admission and extension are the same as for the standard B1 visa (i.e. generally 6 months).

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Aug 4, 2011 8:17 AM John John  says:

why is no one talking about the L visa. I have seen a lot of companies misuse it. Many companies open offices in india and then transfer those ppl on L visa on low salary to US. Also it gives company security as these ppl on L visa cannot switch jobs and are forced to continue to work overtime in less pay or go back to their home country

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Aug 4, 2011 8:35 AM India_taati India_taati  says: in response to John

www.techinsurgent.com/post/Infosys-Busted-Pays-Hush-Money.aspx

Infosys, the big Indian body shop and extensive user of the H-1B program, has, in effect, lost an age-discrimination case in federal court, but everything about the case is shrouded in secrecy.

It is one of those settled-out-of-court arrangements where Infosys must have paid a sum of money to the U.S. citizen against whom it discriminated, but part of the agreement is that the details of the settlement must remain a secret. The little guy gets some money, which is good, but the big guy's operations remain a closed book. It is frustrating to onlookers.

This is the back story:

A 58-year-old U.S. citizen who has spent his life as a computer programmer applied for a job with Infosys. (I know his name, but it is irrelevant.)

Infosys is the largest of the H-1B users in the U.S. and its recent efforts to misuse the B-1 business visa got it some negative attention from the New York Times, as I described in an earlier blog.

Some time ago the U.S. citizen responded to a help-wanted ad in which Infosys noted a maximum experience requirement; it said, in effect, that it did not want anyone who was too experienced. The applicant had more than a quarter-century of the right kind of experience, so he was not hired.

The applicant, correctly, figured that this was age discrimination and took the case to the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; court records show that the agency must have agreed with him and gave him a "permit to sue" decision.

Then the applicant hired a lawyer, used the EEOC document, and went into U.S. District Court. Prior to hearing any evidence, the judge ordered arbitration, but before that could begin, the two parties settled out of court. The judge then closed the case, unless the terms of the settlement are not met. We gather it was a long, drawn-out, two-year ordeal for the plaintiff.

That's all we know for sure, but there are some pretty clear implications.

1) Infosys, and similar outfits, probably will not insert a maximum experience element in their future ads.

2) While this case presumably resulted in a transfer of cash to the discriminated-against citizen-a totally good thing-it cannot be as useful to the anti-age-discrimination, anti-H-1B cause as a public court decision would have been.

3) It is probably better for the cause if the plaintiff (perhaps supported by an advocacy organization) forces the matter into a public trial, rather than accepting an out-of-court settlement, but that's not always possible, maybe it is only rarely possible.

If any reader knows of similar court cases, please share them with me at snrascal@yahoo.com.

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Aug 4, 2011 8:44 AM who knows who knows  says: in response to Madagasper

Keep going with your stereotyping....that is the sign of frustration.

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Aug 4, 2011 9:01 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to asg

Forget everything else....the B1s' services were billed to the client. That's enough to make it an illegal activity.

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Aug 4, 2011 9:33 AM A prediction A prediction  says:

I expect the corrupt Obama regime to swoop in and save infy at any moment.  You will see.

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Aug 4, 2011 10:05 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to A prediction

Looking at the hemorrhaging financial and job markets today right after a stormy debt ceiling three ring circus in Congress, I doubt Obama will be really concerned with Infosys' looming fate. He has other things to worry about.

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Aug 4, 2011 10:07 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to B1H1

The B1 in lieu of H-1B is a special filing that Infosys did not do. Therefore it's not relevant to this case. I see Indian hopefuls grasping at the straw that somehow Infosys was in the right here. No they weren't.

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Aug 4, 2011 10:20 AM B1H1 B1H1  says: in response to Dolores

So looks like you have a little more information than Don!... Please share that.

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Aug 4, 2011 10:34 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to who knows

No. It's called fighting back. The people have woken up and they ain't closing their eyes until we see the end of this abuse.

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Aug 4, 2011 10:37 AM India_taati India_taati  says: in response to B1H1
Aug 4, 2011 10:47 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Dolores

You are right, Dolores. It would be nice if we can get a list of companies like Faygo so we can spend our valuable dollars on their products.

The traitor companies can happily retain their customers in other countries :P

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Aug 4, 2011 11:37 AM Pro Pro  says: in response to Don Tennant

Is there a time frame when the judge has to decided for or against arbitration? What if the company slowly starts to sneak out the B1 holders (who are culpable as well) now in the country working illegally? Will this case impact other companies misusing visas as well?

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Aug 4, 2011 11:50 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Dolores

This is how I view the Visa program/s.

Let's bring in Visa workers educated at bottom rung colleges from other countries on the off chance there may be someone smart enough to start a business and create NEW jobs here.

On the flip side, let's ignore those that have been educated at top rated universities here in the US.

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Aug 4, 2011 11:53 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Pro

There's no specific timeframe for when it has to be decided. Returning the B-1 holders at this point makes absolutely no difference, because it's already documented that they were here. I don't think anyone has any interest in going after the B-1 visa holders themselves. They're some of the victims in this whole mess. I would say the impact on other companies misusing visas will be huge-that's why this case is such a game-changer. It will prompt other companies to clean up their acts internally because they know there's now a spotlight on this activity. The genie's out of the bottle-there will be other whistleblowers, and the government now has a much clearer picture of what's going on.

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Aug 4, 2011 12:11 PM Madagasper Madagasper  says: in response to who knows

SaraR spouts the usual Indian babble.  Just like I said, instead of introspection we get this nonsense about how everyone is corrupt.  Indians, first clean up your own house.  These days India is a synonym for scams, fraud, and corruption.

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Aug 4, 2011 12:48 PM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to RAJESH

The Union carbide which was responsible of over 20,000 deaths.

I agree that was an colossal tragedy. But checking into the facts shows that the Union Carbide plant was 49% owned by the Indian Government and Indian investors. Also all the engineers and technicians and workers running the plant were Indian.

Contrast this with the outsourcing companies in the US: the majority of their workers here in the US are still Indian citizens, not American. I daresay Coca Cola and the other US companies in India hire all Indian workers for their bottling plants in India.

To use the business practice of Infosys et al, then the US companies in India should not hire any Indian staff and get cheaper workers from say Bangladesh or Nepal. But I'm guessing that Indian workers might not take too kindly to that.

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Aug 6, 2011 1:48 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to who knows

Well India's house of cards is coming down finally. These RICO comoanies masquerading as "businesses" must be ejecred from the US. They have been raping and plundering the US for the past 13 years on a scale we cannot even conceive. That is why our economy has been trashed! As you said Don, they pay no taxes and that is why we are going broke! Replace millions of highly paid Americans with millions of these conmen who pay no taxes and guess what happens to the tax base. Indian culture is corrupt to the core and we have imported 10 million of these people since 1998. No wonder our economy is a wreck.

US may have highest incarceration rate in the world but that's because we also have the highest 3rd world immigration rate in the world. (30% of Federal inmates are illegals). With this massive wave of criminality washing up on oue shores it is no wonder our once pristine and booming country has been driven into the ground.

Thanks India.

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Aug 6, 2011 2:46 AM Hiramerica Hiramerica  says: in response to George

Georgie boy, what makes you think I am from the USA :P

And as for the IMF loans, Indian politicians got filthy rich by selling out the country :P

And don't even think that India will be immune to anything bad that happens in the US. If the US goes down, it will take everyone along for the ride, cuz everyone is soooooo dependant on the US.

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Aug 6, 2011 5:26 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to RAJESH

"Do not think that if you mistreat Indian companies, then American companies will do buissness in India. India and Indian people will throw out all your coca cola etc etc."

Perhaps the Indians died at Union Carbide not because it was an American Company, but because of the legendary Indian incompetence. Come on, you guys can't even run an international sporting event and we're expected to let you run a dangerous factory? You can hardly compare selling our legal products in India to India breaking every American law in the book. If you want to do business here, you have to abide by our laws, plain and simple. This ain't India.

As for throwing American companies out of India, you are already doing that by banning US companies like Wal-Mart and Target from coming in in order to protect your own workforce. So your threat is an empty one. USA doesn't need India but you sure need us. Maybe it's time we started protecting OUR workforce - from YOU!

India needs American products. Where are you going to buy you Macs or iPhones? SingTel? LOL.

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Aug 6, 2011 5:36 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to hireamerica

"LOL....The indians will be good little boys and girls in Japan. Only in the US we let them trample all over us :P"

I have been to Japan 5 times and I can guarantee you Japan will never stand for the same thing India has done to the USA. There will be massive riots in the streets once all the native Japanese lose their jobs. Remember, this is a country where many restaurants have signs out front reading "no foreigners". It's also a country that will deport you even if you were born there but one of your parents is non-Japanese and there are pure-blood Japanese out of work.

Japan ain't America. The India, Inc. Job beggars are going to find it much harder to plunder Japan the way they have plundered and destroyed the US.

Just wait and see what happens....

Plus there is the issue of them getting hirrd there at all since many many Japaness are racist and only hire other Japanese. India's griftology model won't work on Japan.

What a pathetic country India is - making a living off other countries like a parasite, propped up by massive amounts of hype, fraud, and deception, while producing nothing...

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Aug 6, 2011 10:30 AM DrGeneNelson DrGeneNelson  says:

The Jay Palmer story as covered by The Wall Street Journal on 28 July 2011:  blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2011/07/28/infosys-employee-testifies-on-alleged-visa-fraud/

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Aug 6, 2011 11:05 AM George George  says: in response to hireamerica

>>Indians are the worst crooks in the world :P

lol. This coming from a country with the biggest corporate scandals, ZERO (zero, 0) fiscal responsibility, drowning in debt, allowing legalized bribing and sending thousands of troops shamelessly to invade other countries and murder tens of thousands.

HireAmerica comes from the country that shoved globalization down the throats of third world countries in the 80s, manipulated the World Bank and IMF to force third world countries to accept their loans with one sided demands (institutionalized loan sharks) and finally when these third world countries used globalization to their advantage years later, HireAmerica complains and resorts to cheap personal stereotypical insults.

Please. Save us the hypocrisy. No one takes America seriously anymore and you make it even worse.

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Aug 6, 2011 11:13 AM George George  says: in response to Wakjob

>>India needs American products. Where are you going to buy you Macs or iPhones? SingTel? LOL.

What "American" products??? It gets shipped from Foxconn, China.

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Aug 6, 2011 11:20 AM George George  says: in response to Hiramerica

>>And don't even think that India will be immune to anything bad that happens in the US. If the US goes down, it will take everyone along for the ride, cuz everyone is soooooo dependant on the US.

Ah! the typical last ditch blackmail line "if we fall, so will you" which is used as the only insurance. Your types always keep yapping this line primarily due to plain ignorance. The reality however is very different as the recession showed. Developing countries experienced only a bump on the road during the American recession (yes, American) because they already have a robust self driven internal economy that has strong fundamentals unlike western economies and especially America which prints money out of thin air. The US is not the only trading partner for developing countries. The recession in the US only caused a hiccup for developing economies like China and India with negligible impact who, instead of registering 10% to 9% growth registered 7% to 8% growth during the American downturn. This is because their trade is diversified. They are also diversifying their investment by buying EURO bonds dirt cheap. Apart from that, you have countries like Russia pushing itself and other countries away from dollar dependence. What did the US do when Iraq agreed to sell oil only in Euro and started selling it to Russia, France and Germany? It launched a war that sunk it further into trillions of dollars into debt. Most Americans don't even know anything about their country because they need to step out of their county (yes, county) and see how the rest of the world functions with limited resources.

When the US does fall (not an 'if' and a 'when') into hyperinflation, the global economy will no longer trade in dollars leaving the US dollar practically worthless and everything in the US very expensive leading to a depression. The only people that would actually be able to sustain themselves are those that actually  produce real things - stuff like farm produce.

BTW, the US triple A rating just got down graded. The American empire will go down the road of the Roman Empire - print money out of thin air and launch wars of conquest leading to cyclic fiat proliferation.

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Aug 6, 2011 11:21 AM George George  says: in response to Wakjob

>>What a pathetic country India is - making a living off other countries like a parasite, propped up by massive amounts of hype, fraud, and deception, while producing nothing...

Quit fooling yourself. Substitute "India" with "America" and it perfectly describes the situation that America is in today.

A consumer economy that keeps borrowing from other countries launching wars through deception engaging in large scale financial fraud.

Please. The amount of ignorance displayed here is astounding. No wonder management won't hire your likes.

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Aug 6, 2011 11:23 AM George George  says: in response to Hiramerica

>>And as for the IMF loans, Indian politicians got filthy rich by selling out the country :P

cuckoo cuckoo. How different is the US or any other country different in this??? Part of the reason why this very discussion is taking place is because people like you and others feel that your politicians democrats or republicans alike, are selling out Americans to corporations. Pot calling Kettle back.

Your ignorance of your own problems speaks for itself.

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Aug 6, 2011 12:26 PM India_taati India_taati  says: in response to hireamerica
Aug 7, 2011 1:16 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to George

Well...never forget the US is the 'giver' and Indda is the 'taker'. And the US is still the world's biggest economy.

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Aug 7, 2011 1:23 AM iPhone_rocks iPhone_rocks  says: in response to Madagasper

I could be wrong. Was Columbus looking for wealthy and flourishing Americana, when he traveled west? May be, the smart Americans rewrote the history, like they always do. I am sure in your history, the slave system did not exist, women were equal in your society from the beginning, native americans welcomed the aliens from Europe and lived them peacefully forever, there was no genocide.

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Aug 7, 2011 2:37 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to iPhone_rocks

Just stop men in India from urinating around the vegetable markets and

spitting on walls and in stairwells and then then let's talk :P

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Aug 7, 2011 2:45 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says:

To those engaged is this relentless back-and-forth country and culture bashing, my patience with your vile posts has reached its limit. You well know how much I hate to delete any comment. I hate the hatefulness more. Stop it or be deleted. It is not welcome here.

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Aug 7, 2011 2:56 AM iPhone_rocks iPhone_rocks  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don, I can't agree more. Let us keep this discussion to the core issue, which is Infosys misusing the visas for its benefits and avoiding taxes.

I only wished you had stepped up little bit earlier, when the tarnishing on Indians started.

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Aug 7, 2011 3:01 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to George

I'm delighted at the prospect that the dollar will fall against other currencies. Sure, foreign oil will be a problem, but maybe it will force us to do what we should have done 30 years ago: become energy self-sufficient. We have more than enough untapped resources and the ingenuity to get at them, it's just that it's been cheaper to buy foreign oil than to develop our own capacity for so long.

But the strong dollar also has other effects. It makes foreign goods and labor cheap compared to us. That's why an Indian can come here on a (wrongfully issued) visa, get paid with a petty cash voucher, and live like a king back home. That is starting to change, and the change will accellerate as the dollar goes down. Get out your party hat, George! I sure will.

And, China needs to keep its people busy. They've been busy all right, making junk to sell to us. But, as we've discovered, it no longer matters how cheap the shirts are at Wal Mart once the American's income goes to zero. And we've figured that out. All that money China loaned us? Good luck collecting. Guess those treasuries will turn out to be as substantial as the poisoned plastic junk they kept sending us. The collapse of the dollar won't help all our dead pets (poisoned pet food) and sick people (heparin, toothpaste, drywall), but it might prevent future cases.

What I really want to happen as a result of our economic woes is for "America, the Sugar Daddy" to fade into the past. When were we ever really liked for ourselves? No, it was always "Gimme foreign aid." (remember USAID training foreigners for offshored work? And all the other things we build and do for other nations?), "Let us manufacture everything, and you buy it from us." (Nice economic plan China, how's it working out?), and "Give us all the skilled knowlege worker jobs." from India. I just love the showers of contempt that Indians have always shown towards the inventors of the modern world. It'll be a relief when the flocks of itinerant IT "immigrants" move on to greener pastures. Bon voyage! Need help carrying your bags to the taxi? Let us help you pack.

I want our precious soldiers and support staff back home. The value of one American life outweighs all the "good" we could ever get from these dumb modern wars. Maybe after 9/11, ok. I think the whole world knew we were going to do something to somebody after that. But I also think we've proved any point we needed to. Let the regimes of the world stew in their own juice. Many pundits think that someday they will look back with tender nostalgia to the days when America was the world's policeman, but who are we to stand in the way of what they seem to want (and deserve) now? 

So, what is really dying now is not America, but the Sugar Daddy. Good riddance to him, I say.

Once the dust settles, we Americans will still wake up in America. Hey, I'm in the West, and I can assure you that the amber waves of grain and the purple mountains' majesty are alive and well.

Once we are free of the burden of taking care of the whole damn world, we can take care of ourselves very nicely. We have a temperate climate, control major wathersheds and aquifers, have lots of mineral resources, and still have (in spite of urban sprawl) an amazing amount of gorgeous farm and ranch land. We'll do great! We even have plenty of rare earths, it's just that we shut down our own production because of the folly of globalism. We might just get back to training and valuing our own people, and making our own stuff, all of which we used to do just fine only a few decades ago. What a concept!

So, by all means George, spike the punch and get out the confetti. But you won't be the only one celebrating.

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Aug 7, 2011 3:02 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to George

I'm delighted at the prospect that the dollar will fall against other currencies.Sure, foreign oil will be a problem, but maybe it will force us to do what we should have done 30 years ago:become energy self-sufficient.We have more than enough untapped resources and the ingenuity to get at them, it's just that it's been cheaper to buy foreign oil than to develop our own capacity for so long.

But the strong dollar also has other effects.It makes foreign goods and labor cheap compared to us.That's why an Indian can come here on a (wrongfully issued) visa, get paid with a petty cash voucher, and live like a king back home.That is starting to change, and the change will accellerate as the dollar goes down.Get out your party hat, George!I sure will.

And, China needs to keep its people busy.They've been busy all right, making junk to sell to us.But, as we've discovered, it no longer matters how cheap the shirts are at Wal Mart once the American's income goes to zero.And we've figured that out.All that money China loaned us?Good luck collecting.Guess those treasuries will turn out to be as substantial as the poisoned plastic junk they kept sending us.The collapse of the dollar won't help all our dead pets (poisoned pet food) and sick people (heparin, toothpaste, drywall), but it might prevent future cases.

What I really want to happen as a result of our economic woes is for "America, the Sugar Daddy" to fade into the past.When were we ever really liked for ourselves?No, it was always "Gimme foreign aid." (remember USAID training foreigners for offshored work?And all the other things we build and do for other nations?), "Let us manufacture everything, and you buy it from us." (Nice economic plan China, how's it working out?), and "Give us all the skilled knowlege worker jobs." from India.I just love the showers of contempt that Indians have always shown towards the inventors of the modern world.It'll be a relief when the flocks of itinerant IT "immigrants" move on to greener pastures.Bon voyage!Need help carrying your bags to the taxi?Let us help you pack.

I want our precious soldiers and support staff back home.The value of one American life outweighs all the "good" we could ever get from these dumb modern wars.Maybe after 9/11, ok.I think the whole world knew we were going to do something to somebody after that.But I also think we've proved any point we needed to.Let the regimes of the world stew in their own juice.Many pundits think that someday they will look back with tender nostalgia to the days when America was the world's policeman, but who are we to stand in the way of what they seem to want (and deserve) now? 

So, what is really dying now is not America, but the Sugar Daddy.Good riddance to him, I say.

Once the dust settles, we Americans will still wake up in America.Hey, I'm in the West, and I can assure you that the amber waves of grain and the purple mountains' majesty are alive and well.

Once we are free of the burden of taking care of the whole damn world, we can take care of ourselves very nicely.We have a temperate climate, control major wathersheds and aquifers, have lots of mineral resources, and still have (in spite of urban sprawl) an amazing amount of gorgeous farm and ranch land.We'll do great!We even have plenty of rare earths, it's just that we shut down our own production because of the folly of globalism.We might just get back to training and valuing our own people, and making our own stuff, all of which we used to do just fine only a few decades ago. Reply

Aug 7, 2011 3:02 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to George
What a concept!

So, by all means George, spike the punch and get out the confetti.But you won't be the only one celebrating.

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Aug 7, 2011 3:52 AM BigBlu BigBlu  says: in response to Dolores

Why do people assume only Indian co.s abuse h1 l1 b1 visas?  IBM oracle microsoft deloitte etc all big American companies outsource or replace us based employees with temp visa workers.  The resources maybe mostly Indians but they too are the victims of this abuse. Only the corps make huge profits ?50percent?. Us and Indian workers lose.

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Aug 7, 2011 3:55 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to BigBlu

Nobody said only Indians. They just represent the largest proportion and overall headcount.

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Aug 7, 2011 6:40 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to George

"ZERO (zero, 0) fiscal responsibility, drowning in debt"

--> Hmmm.. We had massive tax SURPLUSES before we let you people in. Seems YOU caused the debt problems by destroying our tax base.

"allowing legalized bribing"

--> And of course we know bribery NEVER happens in India, right?

"and sending thousands of troops shamelessly to invade other countries and murder tens of thousands."

--> Just like Russia did before us and China killed 60,000 of its own. Look in the mirror.

"HireAmerica comes from the country that shoved globalization down the throats of third world countries in the 80s"

--> And you are better off for globalization. Without globalization, you'd not have a job seeing how as all your jobs are from industries created by Americans.

"manipulated the World Bank and IMF to force third world countries to accept their loans with one sided demands (institutionalized loan sharks) and finally when these third world countries used globalization to their advantage years later, HireAmerica complains and resorts to cheap personal stereotypical insults."

--> Again, India and China are massively better off for globalization. Before we started trading with you, what did you have? Nothing!

"Please. Save us the hypocrisy. No one takes America seriously anymore and you make it even worse."

-- If no one takes America seriously anymore then why does the rest of the world, especially India still push America for more work visas? You seem to hate us but you love our jobs. And the rest of the world is fawning over Apple. Did India invent Apple? No, in fact, Apple CLOSED their R&D in India in 2006. LOL. USA still have the biggest GDP and still has the world reserve currency so we're not going away anytime soon. USA's GDP is SEVEN TIMES that of India and THREE times that of China, despite having only 1/4 the manpower. LOL. You're the one no one takes seriously.

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Aug 7, 2011 6:48 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to George

"When the US does fall (not an 'if' and a 'when') into hyperinflation, the global economy will no longer trade in dollars leaving the US dollar practically worthless and everything in the US very expensive leading to a depression."

Keep dreaming. Already work is coming back to USA because of the falling dollar and rising costs in India and China. It's your countries that are experiencing hyperinflation already - not the US. And keep dreaming that the US will not be the world reserve currency. Who is going to replace it? China? China's currency is non-convertable and thus a joke on world markets. A non-convertable currency can never be the world reserve currency. And China will never make it convertable because that would kill their low cost products which would cause a collapse. Already we're seeing massive riots every week in China. The USA has been through all this before and we don't care. China and India on the other hand are massive bubbles about to burst and when they do, you'll have nowhere to turn.

"The only people that would actually be able to sustain themselves are those that actually  produce real things - stuff like farm produce."

Or Apple software - you know, the great software everyone is falling over themselves to get - the software still made by Americans in America and not in India. How many Indian presenters did you see at WWDC this year? NONE! HAHAHA!! Keep dreaming. US manufacturing is still 40% more than China's. The myth and propaganda that China is making everything is a lie designed to try to sabotage the US economy. Sorry, we're not going anywhere anytime soon and there is nothing you can do about it. Already work is coming back to the US and China and India are starting to collapse.

"BTW, the US triple A rating just got down graded."

Yeah, because some Chinese CCP members threw a few million at some workers at S&P and already S&P is being investigated for not following the rules.

"The American empire will go down the road of the Roman Empire - print money out of thin air and launch wars of conquest leading to cyclic fiat proliferation"

We've been prining money for over 100 years. Hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen. We've been through these depressions before and we always come out unscathed. It is India and China which are on the verge of collapse.

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Aug 7, 2011 6:50 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to iPhone_rocks

Why are we only harping on India and Indians? Here's why:

Companies ruined or almost ruined by imported Indian labor

Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.

AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)

AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).

Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.

Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).

Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)

Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)

Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S. by Indian national guest worker)

Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead. Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.

Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.

Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.

ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S. airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int

Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.

Dell - call center (closed in India)

Delta call centers (closed in India)

Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out. Indian logic bomb creator found guilty.

GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later

HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)

Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)

Lehman (Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)

Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma & wife in the U.S.

Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs. Stock used to be $100. Today it's lucky to be over $25. Not to mention that Vista thing.

MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)

PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed).

PepsiCo - Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi' watch.

Polycom - Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading.

Qantas - See AirBus above

Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure)

Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m).

SAP - Same as Deloitte above in 2010.

Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired)

State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued

State of Texas failed IBM project.

Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle).

UK's NHS outsourced numerous jobs including health records to India in mid-2000 resulting in $26 billion over budget.

Union Bank of California - Cancelled Finacle project run by India's InfoSys in 2011.

United - call center (closed in India)

Victorian Order of Nurses, Canada (Payroll system screwed up by SAP/IBM in mid-2011)

Virgin Atlantic (software written in India caused cloud IT failure)

World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

I could post the whole list here but I don't want to crash any servers.

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Aug 7, 2011 6:51 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to iPhone_rocks

Why are we only harping on India and Indians?Here's why:

Companies ruined or almost ruined by imported Indian labor

Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.

AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)

AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).

Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.

Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).

Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)

Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)

Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S.by Indian national guest worker)

Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead.Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.

Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.

Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.

ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S.airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int

Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.

Dell - call center (closed in India)

Delta call centers (closed in India)

Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out.Indian logic bomb creator found guilty.

GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later

HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)

Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)

Lehman (Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)

Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma &wife in the U.S.

Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs.Stock used to be $100.Today it's lucky to be over $25.Not to mention that Vista thing.

MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)

PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed).

PepsiCo - Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi' watch.

Polycom - Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading.

Qantas - See AirBus above

Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure)

Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m).

SAP - Same as Deloitte above in 2010.

Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired)

State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued

State of Texas failed IBM project.

Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle).

UK's NHS outsourced numerous jobs including health records to India in mid-2000 resulting in $26 billion over budget.

Union Bank of California - Cancelled Finacle project run by India's InfoSys in 2011.

United - call center (closed in India)

Victorian Order of Nurses, Canada (Payroll system screwed up by SAP/IBM in mid-2011)

Virgin Atlantic (software written in India caused cloud IT failure)

World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

I could post the whole list here but I don't want to crash any servers.

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Aug 7, 2011 6:52 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to iPhone_rocks

And yes, the iphone does rock. Too bad it was designed in America and all the software was made in America. Apple CLOSED its R&D in India in 2006. Wait.... Apple is BOOMING. LOL.

Once again we see the superiority of the Amercian IT worker. Apple is the best living proof. HAHA. You can't touch Apple, India. You've cleaned out and destroyed everything else, but you can't have Apple.

Enjoy that AMERICAN MADE software when you use your iPhone. LOL.

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Aug 7, 2011 6:56 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to iPhone_rocks

"I am sure in your history, the slave system did not exist, women were equal in your society from the beginning, native americans welcomed the aliens from Europe and lived them peacefully forever, there was no genocide."

Hmmmm.... which country ended slavery? The US. And it was Muslims who started slavery and to this day still enslave white Christians. Go read some history.

As for the native Americans, they were barbarians living in mud huts, smoking dope, and slaughtering each other in tribal wars. They were already comitting genocide against each other. They didn't deserve America. That is why they got conquered. You can hardly compare those barbarians with civilized Europeans who created the greatest civilization in the world. If the white Europeans had never come to America, there would be no PC, no internet, no phones for you to steal American jobs which you did nothing to help create. So get down on your knees in gratitude that America got taken over by Europeans. Otherwise, you'd still be back in the stone age.

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Aug 7, 2011 6:59 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Don Tennant

"To those engaged is this relentless back-and-forth country and culture bashing, my patience with your vile posts has reached its limit. You well know how much I hate to delete any comment. I hate the hatefulness more. Stop it or be deleted. It is not welcome here."

But DOn, the problem here is not just InfoSys. It is the endemic corruption in Indian culture that is at the root of this problem - it's not just InfoSys that is guilty here - most of the other Indian outsorucers are too. Therefore it is impossible to discuss this problem without discussing Indian culture as well.

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Aug 7, 2011 7:42 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Wakjob

Nonsense. But even if that were the case, you can "discuss" a different culture without denigrating it and insulting the people in that culture. If a reader wants to discuss corruption in India or the U.S. or any other country, that's legitimate. But read the thread. It's not a discussion. It's an exchange of insults. I'm tired of it, and I'm sure the vast majority of my readers are, too. If you disagree, no problem. There are countless other forums out there.

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Aug 7, 2011 8:10 AM Madagasper Madagasper  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don, I agree with you that trading insults is uncalled for.  However it would be impossible to fully understand why Infosys (and other Indian corporates) is the way it is without understanding contemporary Indian culture insofar as it relates to public affairs.  Public Indian culture has indeed become rotten and to call it out is not an insult.  Unless Indians recognize the deep rot within their polity there will not be an remedies forthcoming.  Just in the past 1 year the scale of public corruption in India has been shown to be staggering.  I have a vested interest in seeing India do well because I have most of my extended family there.  But I also see no reason to refrain from calling a spade a spade.

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Aug 7, 2011 8:21 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Madagasper

I see no reason to refrain from calling a spade a spade, either. I've made my livelihood from doing just that for many years. That's not the issue, and my sense is that you know that. The problem is that some people can't do that without spewing the stuff like Indian men being people who urinate in vegetable markets. I've just run out of patience with it.

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Aug 7, 2011 9:21 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

Boeing's long delayed Dreamliner (sic) finally comes out. And the reason why it was so delayed...



Boeing's outsourcing of much of the plane's construction to an army of contractors around the world led to delays and cost overruns.

www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/08/07/boeing.dreamliner/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Outsourcing not much of a cost savings after all.

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Aug 7, 2011 10:10 AM George George  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don.

Totally agree with you. We need to get this discussion back to the core issues. I'll be ignoring folks like Wakjob whose name speaks for himself.

The core issue is Infosys breaking the law and companies like it misusing visas. This needs to stop and any expose regarding this is a welcome development. American and Indian workers alike, including people with any stake in this matter need to know if this is a deviation from process, systemic breaking of the law and what all aspects of the incident led to this situation. The more truth that comes out and the legal system takes action, the better chance this won't happen in the future and hopefully better checks and balances would be put in place to stop all loop holes.

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Aug 7, 2011 10:21 AM George George  says: in response to Madagasper

Madagascar,

>>Public Indian culture has indeed become rotten and to call it out is not an insult.

Really?You have to demote an entire culture to make a point?Corruption is one thing (which BTW, no country, including America is devoid of;where it's legalized at the behest of the rich) and culture is a totally different thing.Yes, India does suffer from systemic corruption at almost every level but do you think the common man wants to live with it?Do you think if it were possible, the average person would want to get rid of it? If it weren't for extortion by those who wield power, I will bet my life that things would be drastically different.If you haven't watched the news in India (yes, IN India since CNN, Fox or MSNBC or Lou Dobbs actually doesn't), you would know there is a huge public mass revolution going right now started by Anna Hazare (www.ndtv.com/article/india/who-is-anna-hazare-96883).But no, you have to resort to trashing an entire culture which is made up of thousands of sub cultures.Thank you very much for the kind words.

>>However it would be impossible to fully understand why Infosys (and other Indian corporates) is the way it is without understanding contemporary Indian culture insofar as it relates to public affairs.

Is it really so difficult?Has "Greed" and "Profit", you know, the wise saying the old book "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil" crossed your mind?That's the reason why Enron and Arthur Andersen cooked up books.That's the reason behind EVERY single scandal you can think of.But no, you have to blame an entire culture for it as if American corporate culture was any better (yes, corporate culture whereas I have praise for American culture.Please differentiate.) Visit India, go to the country side and you will see what the colorful, diverse and vibrant culture you trash looks like.It is so diverse that if I step outside my state to another part, I can't even speak their language yet I got along, picked up the culture and messed up in the language when I lived in three different states.Which other country has to deal with unifying people of 122 languages and hundreds more in dialects along with thousands of sub cultures, every religion of the world (2nd largest Muslim country) leading that has so much potential to lead to conflict and disunity?Yet India is the world's largest democracy that only a few years ago, had a majority party leader of Italian birth presenting a Sikh prime minister for approval by a Muslim President voted in by an 80% Hindu majority country.A suboptimal culture according to you.

Do you think the typical foreign visa holder who has earned a degree in STEM wants to flout the law?They will do just fine from the countries they come from even if their sponsoring company never transferred them.

>>Just in the past 1 year the scale of public corruption in India has been shown to be staggering.

Maybe you should get your own house in order when you talk about "public" corruption.Let us know which corporations and lobby groups will be buying government officials as we near elections...albeit, "legally" though.

Look, you want to get this discussion moving or do you want to duel to see which culture is somehow superior?I would think and hope not.So stick talking about it with respect to Infosys and the abuse of visas. Reply

Aug 7, 2011 10:21 AM George George  says: in response to Madagasper
Leave cultures and stereotypical hate out of it.If people like you showed a bit more reason and less hate, there would be Indians from Infosys and other companies willing to provide evidence because even they know that they are getting screwed by Infosys.I've talked to a few who never knew if the packages they were getting on their transfer from India were above the industry requirements before they arrived but discovered it only after getting here, living and knowing what the cost of living was.They don't even know what a B1 visa is until a day or two before they travel.But thanks for making them feel alienated as if they are concocting a scheme to abuse the visa system.

Are there people who do this?Yes.Are there people who don't do this?You bet.Plenty.

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Aug 7, 2011 10:24 AM iPhone_rocks iPhone_rocks  says: in response to Wakjob

It is funny you called out American software and left out hardware part. Good call.

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Aug 7, 2011 10:26 AM George George  says: in response to Dolores

Dolores, you sound reasonable and rational. I just can't stand the hypocrisy here and trashing of an entire people. When I was a kid growing up, I was a big fan of Hulk Hogan (well, before I learned that wrestling was staged) whose entrance song was "I am a real American".The personification of that song is what most freedom loving and oppressed people saw in America.  But there are other aspects of US history that many of us are aware of - that it also had vested interests in ending communism and getting involved in other countries. "freedom" and democracy wasn't the whole package. It was easy for the US to fund operations and wars because all it did was print cash (like Rome did). But the repercussions of this fiat policy is being felt now - 40 years later.  Did US intervention and "policing" help many countries? No doubt, yes it did. Did it have excesses and wrongs. Yes it did. It is understandable that any country has it's own interests in mind when it does intervene because that is how geopolitics works. But no one should be mistaken that the US was answering a righteous mission to take care of the whole world. That is how every government portrays their actions and the media will just parrot the same line. A critical look behind every action will reveal other angels. The American government led by the CIA implemented interventions in the affairs of other countries for it's own self interests and the average American growing up today isn't even aware of half of them (Nicaragua, Iranian overthrow of democracy bringing in the Shah, Vietnam, Guatemala, Panama, Bay of pigs, CIA organized coup that brought Saddam to power and 2003 invasion to stop the proliferation of the Euro as a trading currency to name a few).

However, I would differentiate between the covert and overt interventions of the US government and the American people who donate to charities and have gone to different lands, worked selflessly providing aid and services to local communities. The rest of the world has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to emulating them.

Have a good week ahead.

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Aug 7, 2011 10:32 AM Madagasper Madagasper  says: in response to George

So now we cannot speak anything negative about India and Indians because that would be demeaning an "entire culture" ?  I am sure George would have no objection if it had been fulsome praise instead.  More to the point, I am well aware of the happenings in India because I travel there once every few weeks, unlike George who plays the 'great' Indian while sitting in America and using America's resources.  'Nuf said.  Alas, the defensive platitudes of the kind George regurgitates are all too common.

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Aug 7, 2011 11:21 AM iPhone_rocks iPhone_rocks  says: in response to hireamerica

wow. It looks like Georgie shut your mouths for good. Instead of talking about the core issue, which is Infosys abusing the visa system, I don't understand why you people are throwing mud at Indians. Have you even bothered to look at the scams and scandals you have in your own country?

It looks like American dream and openness and freedom concepts are going down the toilet pretty quick. May be, I guess those principles belong only to white.

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Aug 7, 2011 11:24 AM iPhone_rocks iPhone_rocks  says: in response to Madagasper

The funny part is, the Americans (Don, Jake and few others) in this discussion bring more rational arguments and focusing on the core issue of Outsourcing companies. Whereas, the newly converted Americans (Madagasper, hireamerica) are having issues with Indians and Indian culture. If you hate it so much, did you guys check with the dermatologists to change your skin color?

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Aug 7, 2011 11:27 AM Madagasper Madagasper  says: in response to iPhone_rocks

As an Indian you should never talk about toilets.  The whole of India is a public toilet, if you haven't yet noticed.  First put your own house in order.  Look what a beautiful country Americans have built for themselves.  The scams and scandals in America are usually dealt with by the American law and justice system.  Whereas India is a lawless land.  Please don't compare the two nations.  There is no comparison.

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Aug 8, 2011 3:09 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says:

I do have problem with saying corruption stems from a person's culture.  I don't believe India is culturally corrupt, far from it. 

I do think they have, and many will admit, 14th century practices.  For example having children kept as house servants (who knows what else, and that is scary) and not getting proper education.  Which I heard about on NPR this weekend.  It happens, people in India should face that and of course make every effort to stop it. 

Most of this stems from poverty, which can corrupt anyone.  Another part of this is greed and that part happens in the U.S. as well as India or any other country.

Indian (more properly Hindustani) culture is well developed but then so is European culture.  The U.S. doesn't really have one culture, so you see a variety of culture (and that is awesome about the U.S.).  The U.S. isn't any more British or French then it is Mexican or African. 

Culture really isn't the issue.

The issue is visas and how they affect job growth and destruction in the United States.  I want the U.S. and India to have a complementary relationship.   But basing success of that relationship on monetary factors, which is the way Wall Street would have it, is the dumbest possible way to base it.

Again this is because the monetary system(s) move like the freeway.  And as we all know, when everyone gets on the freeway it becomes an endless cycle of stop-and-go.  If the U.S. wasn't so heavily in debt, this might be okay, because the Government could afford to step in and keep the U.S. workers (eating) during this down time.  But that isn't going to happen. 

Frankly protectionism is the answer, because countries like India and China really don't want to hire U.S. citizens.  And we need to put these countries and their businesses on notice, if you want to do business in the United States, then you must end your discriminatory hiring practices.  You cannot use the U.S. Visa system as your sole method for manning your U.S. workforce.

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Aug 8, 2011 4:37 AM asg asg  says: in response to Wakjob

I am really impressed with this list. Did you urself make it or is it from some kind of 'white supremacist' web site. I really would like to meet with the person who researched this... Great stuff. I mean it.

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Aug 8, 2011 7:00 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to SealTeam6

More bad news, notjust what is being said here, but that it is being said out loud in such a major publication.

www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-08/immelt-adds-technology-jobs-in-u-s-as-ge-shaves-outsourcing.html

The times, they are a'changin....

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Aug 8, 2011 7:35 AM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Dolores

Good news but it does not mean GE will hire citizens and permanent residents only.

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Aug 8, 2011 8:49 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to hireamerica

Notice the numbers. In the beginning, level for level, it was six of them to one of us cost-wise. Now it's down to three. I always read that that would be a tipping point, because of all the overhead and risk in outsourcing.

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Aug 8, 2011 12:24 PM hireamerica hireamerica  says: in response to Don Tennant

Well Don, It is the absolute truth and not made up. And when people are asked if they would refrain from the habit in the interest of good hygiene they get extremely arrogant and tell you to get lost.

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Aug 8, 2011 12:32 PM SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

Looks like the ripple effect of the credit rating downgrade has started:



US credit rating downgrade may impact India's IT, gems & jewellery exports: FIEO

The apex organization of Indian exporters has expressed alarm over the downgrading of US Government credit rating from the top level 'AAA' to the AA+ category by credit-rating agency Standard & Poor's (S&P.)
Exports of garments, handicrafts, leather, gems and jewellery and IT are likely to be the most affected, the Federation of Indian Exporters (FIEO) said. Most of India's $50 billion of IT and services exports end up in the US.


rtn.asia/903_us-credit-rating-downgrade-may-impact-indias-it-gems-jewellery-exports-fieo

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Aug 25, 2011 1:01 AM rotunda rotunda  says: in response to Wakjob

Not really. We will break our (India's) import laws and smuggle them in. There's more money to be made that way.

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Aug 25, 2011 2:34 AM rotunda rotunda  says: in response to George

When half of the people in a developing country are below the poverty line, how can you tell a normal economy from a recessionary one? If you read business news lately, you would know what Europe is going through. Dream on that Euro would become a reserve currency some day...and yeah Russia will lead the world on this one. If wishes were horses, you would ride.

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Aug 25, 2011 12:11 PM rotunda rotunda  says: in response to Madagasper

Being an immigrant from India, I can say that India has always been a place of scams, fraud and corruption. The only thing is that it's being widely reported now. Following laws actually makes a place hum like a well oiled machine. But we simply just don't get it.

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Aug 25, 2011 12:29 PM rotunda rotunda  says: in response to who knows

Madagasper is right on the money. And you know it. Introspection is not one of our strong points, is it?

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Aug 25, 2011 12:32 PM rotunda rotunda  says: in response to hireamerica

I hope you do fight back. You only have to visit India to see what lack of Integrity could do to a country.

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Aug 25, 2011 12:46 PM rotunda rotunda  says: in response to RAJESH

Rajesh, please educate yourself. Software exports alone make up about 10% of India's GDP. So we need them more then they need us. "Throwing" out foreign companies will only set us back to the pre-1990 era. And if you lived then, you know how good India was doing (or wasn't). I certainly wouldn't want to go back to that period in time. Moreover,  they are only asking that their laws be obeyed. I don't see what's wrong with that.

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Aug 25, 2011 12:49 PM rotunda rotunda  says: in response to hireamerica

Amen.

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Aug 25, 2011 12:52 PM rotunda rotunda  says: in response to hireamerica

We do not discriminate between countries. Our aim is to bring the developed world into the fold of third world countries.

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Sep 7, 2011 3:22 AM Anonymous Anonymous  says:

I have a similar situation.. being an infoscian in CA, I know many issue (harrasment, Overtime denied, Arbitration ) which I raised in Infosys HR (believe me ...even to Nandita gurjar's level) but nobody cares in Infosys HR...untill employee files a lawsuit..

multiple incidences are there when Infosys manager deny to pay overtime or force employee to not to fill their internal overtime system (called OTPS and iTime) to their CA based employees. when raised this issue in Infosys HR, they even dont bother ... what next to say other then filing a lawsuit...

Pls suggest me what should I do...should I file a case in DOL or simply file a lawsuit against infosys (but I also dont want to go my name in public..for obvious reasons).

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May 9, 2012 1:59 AM GoaToHouston GoaToHouston  says: in response to George

Developing countries experienced only a bump on the road during the American recession (yes, American) because they already have a robust self driven internal economy that has strong fundamentals.

What strong fundamentals!!

If the indian economy is so strong, why is the indian currency falling wrt the dollar. We are the economy in trouble right... not you??

Forget the economy, get the fundamentals of your society right first. This is the basis for all progress. In India, you still cant get a drivers license or a property registered without paying a bribe.

You said hyperinflation in the us?  yipee.. goodbye foreign debt - we dont owe anything to india and china!!!... please, please, please we want that.

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