Need to Be Needed? Get Really Skilled in Linux, Really Fast

Don Tennant
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Top 15 In-demand IT Skills in Today's Market

If you're finding that the tech skills you're able to put on your resume aren't impressing anyone enough to get your foot in the door of a hiring manager, you might want to consider immersing yourself in Linux. According to a newly released report, workers with Linux skills will be especially highly prized in 2012.

 

A survey of over 2,300 hiring managers worldwide, conducted in December by the technology careers site Dice and the Linux Foundation, found that demand for workers with Linux skills is significantly outstripping supply. Here are some of the key findings:

 

  • Eight in 10 (81 percent) survey respondents say that hiring Linux talent is a priority in 2012. This is particularly evident when Linux demand is compared to hiring in other skill sets: 63 percent of hiring managers are increasing Linux hires relative to jobs created in other skill areas. A full 85 percent say finding Linux talent is somewhat to very difficult.
  • Companies are making significant investments to attract and retain Linux talent. Linux professionals garner more full-time positions and better salaries, bonuses and perks. While the pay increase for tech professionals averaged just 2 percent in 2011, Linux professionals have seen a 5 percent increase in salaries year-over-year and a 15 percent jump in bonus payouts.
  • Employers are seeking mostly Linux developers - 67 percent - and systems administrators - 55 percent - with varying levels of experience. Mid-level professionals appear to be the most highly sought: 75 percent of respondents say they're looking for Linux talent with three to five years of experience.

 

Here's what the respondents said has changed in their organizations that is driving hiring of Linux professionals in 2012, compared to 2011:

 

  • Company is growing, creating need for additional Linux-focused team members (49 percent)
  • Increasing use of Linux in our company and need in-house support (48 percent)
  • Linux has become core to our business and we need to increase our participation in the Linux community (30 percent)
  • Replacing systems with Linux and need Linux expertise to assist with migrations (27 percent)
  • Difficulty in retaining Linux-related talent is creating openings that we need to backfill (13 percent)
  • I don't know (7 percent)
  • Other (5 percent)


 

Here are some of the perks companies are offering to retain Linux talent:

 

  • Flexible work schedules (37 percent)
  • Additional training and certifications (30 percent)
  • Salary increases above company norm (28 percent)
  • Making Linux talent bonus-eligible (18 percent)
  • Additional stock options (8 percent)
  • All of the above (6 percent)

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Feb 15, 2012 1:25 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says:

This has been pretty much my observation too with the few Linux Admin friends I have known over the years. I always wanted to get more immersed onto the LAMP stack (Linux Apache MySQL PHP) at an amateur level but my expertise has been in .Net related technologies so that's where my work takes me and keeps me busy at home. The few Linux admins I know are in the North East (NY/NJ/PA) and make more than 120K and are always in demand. I've seen them establish themselves in big companies over the years. I suspect that since Linux hasn't been as user friendly as Windows, you find less professionals. Combine this with the fact that Linux has a high adoption rate at the enterprise level and you have really good salaries for a Linux admin.

PHP on the other hand hasn't been adopted at the enterprise level. So I don't know how good a PHP programmer's salary can get in organizations. It's a different story in web 2.0 companies like facebook, youtube, yahoo etc that use PHP though.

I'm still a big advocate of Microsoft technologies and it's not going anywhere soon so if you're pretty good (and it's not so hard to get pretty good at it with easier learning curve and free resources at it), that could also be good enough "to get your foot in the door of a hiring manager".

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Feb 15, 2012 2:41 AM hoapres hoapres  says:

Another bogus survey sponsored partly by Dice.  The quoted sources are from (no surprise!) from staffing agencies and "hiring managers".  You don't see these studies "pound the pavement" by talking to people ACTUALLY doing the hiring.  Another not so little secret, HR types will almost ALWAYS say that they are "hiring" even right to the day of a MASSIVE layoff.  Cisco right to the night before was claiming "we are hiring" and then announced their massive layoff.

Start talking to people doing the hiring asking them : Are you having any trouble finding people ??

Reality check.

"Immersing" yourself in Linux overnight won't get you a job.  Extremely skilled senior level Linux people are having an extremely difficult time getting a job.

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Feb 15, 2012 3:17 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to George Alexander

>> This has been pretty much my observation too with the few Linux Admin friends I have known over the years. <<

Not mine.

I have a pretty LARGE sample size.  Linux people are a "dime a dozen".

>>  I always wanted to get more immersed onto the LAMP stack (Linux Apache MySQL PHP) at an amateur level but my expertise has been in .Net related technologies so that's where my work takes me and keeps me busy at home. <<

You can't "immerse" yourself in the LAMP stack.  You don't learn the LAMP stack overnight.  And those that are LAMP stack "fluent" contrary to Dice's claims are having trouble finding jobs.

Dice is hardly credible as it goes around citing Robert Half along with using a bogus job count.

Your credibility is shot when you go around claiming 80,000 jobs and it turns out that 90% don't exist.

techtalk.dice.com/t5/Tech-Nation-Discussion/Dice-at-it-again-using-the-bogus-job-count-to-claim-tech/m-p/235374/highlight/true#M34337

>> The few Linux admins I know are in the North East (NY/NJ/PA) and make more than 120K and are always in demand. <<

I know LOTS of Linux admins that can't get an interview because the North East is heavily H1B Infested.  The H1Bs make between 40K and 60K a year.

>>  I've seen them establish themselves in big companies over the years. I suspect that since Linux hasn't been as user friendly as Windows, you find less professionals. <<

"User friendly" is a corporate and not technical issue.

>> Combine this with the fact that Linux has a high adoption rate at the enterprise level and you have really good salaries for a Linux admin. <<

No you don't.

I know of Linux system administrators working for $25 an hour in NYC.  It's unfortunate when you have to compete against H1Bs but those are the facts of life.

>> PHP on the other hand hasn't been adopted at the enterprise level. So I don't know how good a PHP programmer's salary can get in organizations. It's a different story in web 2.0 companies like facebook, youtube, yahoo etc that use PHP though. <<

PHP by itself is not worth much.  Looking at under $20 an hour.

Yahoo is not hiring.  YouTube(e.g. Google) and Facebook are extremely selective.  Age discrimination is rampant.  A PhD from a TOP 10 school is required for many if not most jobs.  Internship experience is almost always needed to be considered for an interview.  Google and Facebook web developers are almost always top 1% or maybe even top .1% of software developers at the genius level.  Front AND Back end web expertise is a given for Facebook and Google. 

>> I'm still a big advocate of Microsoft technologies and it's not going anywhere soon so if you're pretty good (and it's not so hard to get pretty good at it with easier learning curve and free resources at it), that could also be good enough "to get your foot in the door of a hiring manager". <<

No experience then no job.

"To get your foot in the door..." requires a labor market such that I can't find an experienced person. 

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Feb 15, 2012 4:01 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hoapres

I'll believe you because even if the economy is doing great, it sucks for the person not getting a job and even if the economy sucks, it's great for a person who can easily get the job he wants. You sounds pretty gloomy and I'm the opposite. I think we're meeting different people and have different experiences.

By the way, the best way for those without experience finding it hard to get a job is to contribute to opensource or start their own projects and add it to their portfolio. This will give an applicant a better chance and more visibility to land an interview. I was jobless for around 8 months initially and didn't know the ropes to land an interview but since I loved programming, I offered to work for free for a company and that was my first break. Within a few months they started giving me a stipend to stay and soon hired me to a full time position. Also, join a local user group and start helping around and you will bump into lots of people who know where the openings are and they could refer you for these positions.

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Feb 15, 2012 4:12 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to George Alexander

>>  I think we're meeting different people and have different experiences. <<

Not necessairly.

I just might have a bigger sample size.

>> By the way, the best way for those without experience finding it hard to get a job is to contribute to opensource or start their own projects and add it to their portfolio. <<

I agree that contributing to opensource is a good idea but at some point want or need to make money.  Let's see go to school for a BS degree.  That is not good enough.  Go to graduate school.  That is not good enough.  Get a year of unapid internship.  That is good enough to get a minimum wage job.

>> I offered to work for free for a company and that was my first break. <<

That is a big part of the problem.  People working for free.  We do have minimum wage laws in this country at least in theory.

>> Within a few months they started giving me a stipend to stay and soon hired me to a full time position. <<

So the company got free work for months. 

>> Also, join a local user group and start helping around and you will bump into lots of people who know where the openings are and they could refer you for these positions. <<

What if the jobs don't exist.  If I have to start competing with people working for free or minimum wage then I might not be able to afford food or a roof over my head.

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Feb 15, 2012 4:47 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hoapres
might have used it otherwise -- my mom and I didn't even have cable TV until I was in highschool and no VCR until college and this is the 90s we're talking!).Our country is rich in opportunity for those willing to work for it. Often that work is mindnumbingly crappy but opportunity lurks for those who are persistent.  Don't let pride be your downfall. I got my start taking out garbage for welfare mothers and worked my way up to painting fences in the blistering heat and so on today. If I can make it, anyone Reply
Feb 15, 2012 4:48 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hoapres

>>Let's see go to school for a BS degree. That is not good enough. Go to graduate school. That is not good enough. Get a year of unapid internship. That is good enough to get a minimum wage job.

Look, everyone starts somewhere.Most able bodied workers didn't make it somewhere in one shot.My hope of getting a masters was that I could get a high paying job but I was unemployed for 8 months after completing it and took daily bus passes, walked streets handing my resume office to office.Sometimes walking 4 miles a day.No one accepted me because I didn't come from any of the big schools and the few that did interview me had hundreds of better candidates to choose from.It sucks when you still have to ask your parents for living expenses to rent a place but all that taught me things like the value of money and working on the way I present myself to get a job.

Fact is, nothing is good enough.That's life.It's not fair.I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't go through all that. Everyone needs to work their way up from the starting point you mentioned.Some don't even have college degrees.

>>That is a big part of the problem. People working for free. We do have minimum wage laws in this country at least in theory.

That's competition.Whatever happened to all that "you can start from nothing and work your way up" that America is known for.I did what I had to inorder to get my break and earn some professional credability.Open Source is built on people contributing for free.Minimum wage laws are not applicable to free contributions.

>>So the company got free work for months. 

Yes and I have absolutely no problem with that.I was prepared to leave and use the experience to bag another job and when the company realized that, they offered me a stipend followed by a job.Free market - love it.

>>What if the jobs don't exist. 

We don't know till you try.We should always try our best.In my experience being in user groups in CT, NY, FL and TX, there are regular job postings by members and sponsors.

>>If I have to start competing with people working for free or minimum wage then I might not be able to afford food or a roof over my head.

All IT jobs do not pay minimum wage or go for free.The minimum wage/free thing can be used by entry level wannabes to get a break.For mid-level to senior positions, I doubt that you will find people working for free (unless they contribute to open source projects) or minimum wage.

This is a good reading for anyone who think it's tough and it motivated me early on when I started my career:

draginol.joeuser.com/article/20053/A_working_history_for_Brad_Wardell

"So what's the excuse of able bodied people who are poor?I'm not particularly intelligent.I don't enjoy working any more than anyone else (just ask my mom). But I did what I had to do. And now I pay 6 figures in income taxes of which a large percentage of it goes to other people. If I can make it, why can't others?If you are able bodied, what's stopping you?

I think Americans are very generous people. As a nation, we spend more on programs to help the poor and downtrodden than any other nation.  Reply

Feb 15, 2012 4:48 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hoapres
We provide more aid to the poor of the world than any other country.

If you find yourself thinking that other people are "just lucky" or that you are constantly being singled out by the boss or some other authority figure or that life isn't fair, then you need toughen up and quit looking for scapegoats.Look inside.In the United States, hard work, more than intelligence, more than inherited wealth, will win the day in the long run.You may not become a millionaire.But you won't be poor.And by poor, I mean real poor, not "I can barely afford a new DVD player" poor (hint:if you have a DVD player, you're not poor but if you think you are, consider the choices you made to buy a DVD player in the first place rather than how you might have used it otherwise -- my mom and I didn't even have cable TV until I was in highschool and no VCR until college and this is the 90s we're talking!).

Our country is rich in opportunity for those willing to work for it.Often that work is mindnumbingly crappy but opportunity lurks for those who are persistent. Don't let pride be your downfall.I got my start taking out garbage for welfare mothers and worked my way up to painting fences in the blistering heat and so on today.If I can make it, anyone can."

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Feb 15, 2012 6:04 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to George Alexander

Working for free violates minimum wage laws.  The amount of "social responsibility" encumbered by an employer is clearly a political matter but sorry this is the US and some of us don't want to end up like a 3rd world country flooded with cheap labor.

Our country is hardly rich with opportunities anymore.  The US is very quickly becoming a 3rd world country with rapid destruction of middle class jobs.

You would be wrong about senior level developers not working for close to minimum wage as that is happening on a daily basis.

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Feb 15, 2012 6:20 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hoapres

>>Working for free violates minimum wage laws.

That's applicable only in an employee-worker relationship. That's why open source projects used by companies does not violate minimum wage laws or Or p-eds contributed for free to media publications does not violates minimum wage laws Or why google need not pay bloggers on blogspot minimum wage. Else, you get something like this mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/12/huffington-post-is-target-of-suit-on-behalf-of-bloggers/

>>The US is very quickly becoming a 3rd world country with rapid destruction of middle class jobs.

This is hyperbole. The US and third world countries are far apart and are no where close. Pretty obvious with that statement that you don't know what it means to live to a third world country.

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Feb 15, 2012 6:25 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to George Alexander

>> The US and third world countries are far apart and are no where close. <<

Having visited more than one third world country then you would be amazed at how fast the US is becoming a third world country.

The rapid decrease in the average American standard of living is pretty noticeable and if you start looking around then you would be amazed at the number of truly POOR people that we have in the US.

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Feb 15, 2012 6:40 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hoapres

You shouldn't be saying stuff like this to people who grew up in third world countries and live in the US. Take the most improvished places in the US and compare it to medium to upscale places in a third world country and you will know what I mean. Standard of living for the poor over here is far higher than most people in the third world.

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Feb 15, 2012 6:49 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to George Alexander

>> You shouldn't be saying stuff like this to people who grew up in third world countries and live in the US. <<

Reality check.

I talk to LOTS of people from the "third world" now living in the US and they agree with me.

>> Take the most improvished places in the US and compare it to medium to upscale places in a third world country and you will know what I mean. <<

I have.

Don't want to give you the bad news but upscale places in a third world country are quite likely from a standard of living point of view a LOT MORE attractive than some of the most impovished (sic) places in the US.

Like I said before, I have visited the third world.

I don't have a problem with the third world's standard of living catching up to the US but have a REAL PROBLEM with the standard of living in THIS country DROPPING to the 3rd world.

>>  Standard of living for the poor over here is far higher than most people in the third world. <<

But the trend is getting WORSE.  Like I said before I have visited the third world and the US is getting closer to third world status every day.

The thrust of this article was "Need to be needed. Get really skilled in Linux really fast"  but your confirming my contention that "get really skilled" might result you in working for free or at minimum wage.

You are likely to be much better off "keeping your nose clean" right after high school finding ANY job with a decent employer.  I know of LOTS of people at Costco working 5 years after high school making over $25 an hour without spending a day in college.  Those at Costco going into a retail management program working their way into management are making $80K+ a year.  That sounds like a much better deal than going to college for 4 years ending up working for free.

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Feb 15, 2012 8:57 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to hoapres

More solid evidence that there is no such thing as a killer cert or skill any more in our massively flooded labor market: www.cio.com/article/700052/IT_Pay_Premiums_for_IT_Skills_Drop_as_IT_Departments_Reorganize

The better paying job openings are all for purple squirrels.

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Feb 15, 2012 9:01 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Dolores

The claim of the article reduces down to "Learn Linux and you will be employed".  If the article references Dice dot com then it is suspect almost by definition since Dice claims to have 80K+ job when 90% of the claimed jobs don't even exist.

Just use common sense.

If Linux was truly in demand then we would SEE and NOT just hear actual evidence of said shortage by signing bonuses, increasing salaries, etc.

Just because you say it is so does not make it so.

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Feb 16, 2012 1:34 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to George Alexander

I tell young people to pursue their passion regardless of the job prospects because you are only young once in your life. Pursuing your passion as a youth does not mean that you will be doing it for a living.

I would definitely discourage STEM to those whose sole interest is to secure a middle class standard of living.

STEM might be better considered as a hobby than as a means to secure a livlihood.

When people are reduced to "working for free" then "working" doesn't pay the bills.

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Feb 16, 2012 2:36 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Jerr

>> ...more training... <<

Waste for the most part.  We have spent LOTS of money and time in "retraining" efforts which have proved futile.  Americans are prerejected from STEM employment due to H1B infestiation and offshoring/

>> ...unless people magically disappear. <<

Instead of retraining we could get people to disappear to simply offer every American STEM graduate over 40 that has been out of work for over 2 years and consequently prerejected for employment a one time severance payment of $100,000 under the proviso that one is permanently banned from STEM employment so one can pursue his second career working in a "throw away" low paying minimum wage job until retirement to a life of abject poverty.

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Feb 16, 2012 3:15 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hoapres

If a STEM graduate is worth getting paid $100,000 just to stop working on his field then what you will pay for Military veterans who lost their life? may be $1billion/each or $1Trillion/each?...

US pays on avg $40k - $50k for people who are ready to put their life in line. I don't think STEM education is anyway close to the cost of one human life. Stop living in dream...wake up and come to reality. US paid enough bailout already!!!

"  Americans are prerejected from STEM employment due to H1B infestiation"

This is pure myth and straw man argument, no one can be successful until they stop spreading such myth. Don't waste your time in spreading such false information, the moment you stop H1b you will loose every single job to India/china which is just going to boost outsourcing. Learn how current business works before throwing unrealistic suggestions. Please start a company...give jobs to only US citizens no H1b resource will cry about it.

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Feb 16, 2012 4:53 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to ITJob

>> US paid enough bailout already!!! <<

The rich got their bailout and it is time for everyone else to loot the store by getting their bailout.

>> ...This is pure myth and straw man argument, ,,, <<

It's not.

>> Don't waste your time in spreading such false information, the moment you stop H1b you will loose every single job to India/china which is just going to boost outsourcing. <<

If one has to choose between bringing in more foreigners to the US versus having the job sent overseas then it is a "no brainer".  Ship the job overseas.

If a job can be done cheaper somewhere else then eventually it is going to be done somewhere else.

>>  Please start a company... <<

I have.

>> give jobs to only US citizens no H1b resource will cry about it. <<

Typical of those never involved in starting a company.  Just "give jobs". 

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Feb 16, 2012 5:11 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hoapres

"If one has to choose between bringing in more foreigners to the US versus having the job sent overseas then it is a "no brainer".  Ship the job overseas."

It is your personal opinion and it don't fall under category of "no brainer"...you have ask this question to an unemployed (as you have company there is nothing to lose for you) and US president who fights to get job for millions of unemployed and US $ gets shipped in the name of outsourcing...classic example Apple...it has $100billion (yep..it can pay for CA 1yr budget!!!) in cash but still won't bring the jobs to US. 

"If a job can be done cheaper somewhere else then eventually it is going to be done somewhere else."

This shows that you never have a company which have off-shore division. You have no idea what it takes to off-shore...cost is just one of the factor.

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Feb 16, 2012 5:23 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to ITJob

It is a no brainer.

Just use some common sense.

EVERYONE is better off having a job being sent overseas than bringing in more foreign help.

If a job can be done overseas for $10,000 a year versus paying an American $80,000 a year then that job is going overseas at some point.

I have been involved with companies having an on-shore and off-shore division.  The H1Bs are brought in to work with Americans who as a condition of receiving their severance training their Indian H1B replacements to ship the job to India.

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Feb 16, 2012 6:06 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hoapres

"If a job can be done overseas for $10,000 a year versus paying an American $80,000 a year then that job is going overseas at some point."

Nope you cannot find any resource in offshore who can accept $10K for replacement of $80K American...which means someone has to replace at least 4-5yrs experienced guy and if you really know the current market price you should know resource cost alone will be $15k - $20k based on location and you have to see real CTC which would be $40K - $50k plus there is always currency conversion risk.

If you company is small ( 100- 200 employees) then you have huge turnover whenever there is boom market. If you are fortune 500 then the salary range is totally different.

"I have been involved with companies having an on-shore and off-shore division.  The H1Bs are brought in to work with Americans who as a condition of receiving their severance training their Indian H1B replacements to ship the job to India."

This is one uneducated statement I had seen from you...

Seriously!!! do you really think a company can use H1b to ship the job to India? May be you wanted to say B1...

Do you really know what risk a company is taking to bring a resource on H1?

You cannot stop a H1 from moving out of you as soon as 30days of landing in US. No company with a brain will bring a resource in H1 for knowledge transfer to move a job to offshore. Getting a resource from outside on H1 is tedious task and comes with huge risk...once he/she landed US then nothing can stop him/her.

If you never been on a work visa or an immigration attorney you have very less chance to know what it takes to get a resource on H1. Try get a H1 resource (to your company as you claimed having one) and pay him peanut and see how fast he is moving out of your company in 30 days of landing in US...there are companies waiting to get hold of those resources because it is very easy to transfer H1 and pay him market rate than getting him/her from offshore and pay him peanut. Your comment shows you are totally out of real world.

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Feb 16, 2012 6:23 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to ITJob

I doubt that you worked in a major IT production company.  I have seen entire companies and IT divisons being offshored with the temporary importation of H1Bs.

The larger companies such as Google and Facebook have Indian divisions thus eliminating the need to bring in more foreign workers.

H1Bs can't just from one employer to another without being sponsored.  If an H1B doesn't find another job then in theory he supposed to leave the US but in practice that doesn't always happen.

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Feb 16, 2012 6:32 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hoapres

"H1Bs can't just from one employer to another without being sponsored.  If an H1B doesn't find another job then in theory he supposed to leave the US but in practice that doesn't always happen"

It is cheaper to transfer H1 than starting from scratch...and you mean to say I don't know that H1 sponsorship is required to move to another employer?

Please let me know who can't find another employer just because they couldn't find one who can sponsor...may be they work for a product based company where their skill are of no use in real market....if otherwise I can direct them to right place where they can fine good number of employers ready to grab those resources.

By the way you don't resign from your H1 job before you identify a potential employer who is ready to sponsor and you don't even have to resign the job until your H1 transfer is approved. Again you proved that you got less understanding of H1 program.

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Feb 16, 2012 6:42 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to ITJob

If an H1B is laid off then he is supposed to go home UNLESS he finds another employer in under a month.

Like I said before, I have doubts that you worked in an IT company.  H1Bs get laid off like everybody else and many are illegally in the US as their authorization to work in the US has expired.  The US Department of Homeland Security is pretty lax regarding "rounding up the H1Bs" along with noting that the employer laying off the H1B is supposed to pay for the airplane ticket back home.

Given the rapidly declining US IT salaries, very few Indians that can get a job in India are willing to come to the US to live in a "US work camp" being 12+ people stuffed into a 1BR apartment.

The Indians coming over to the US for employment for the most part are those that CAN NOT find a job in India. 

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Feb 16, 2012 7:12 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to hoapres

Everyone is shouting about various skills: security, hadoop, BYOD, virtualization, but the reality is that nobody is getting hired for anythng without oodles of experience AND certs AND degrees in most cases. This is more evidence for a glutted labor market. Companies have stopped training Americans - still more evidence. Most hiring is poaching from other companies, not developing staff internally. Salaries have dropped. Ditto. All the evidence points to a bloated labor market for all skill sets and levels.

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Feb 16, 2012 8:14 AM PHP Developers PHP Developers  says: in response to Dolores

Hi amazing information thanks for sharing

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Feb 16, 2012 9:13 AM Jerr Jerr  says: in response to Dolores

True indeed. I say experience counts over skills. And it's probably right so. But what we need is simply more experience at a younger age - more training, especially while at school. If the market is so bloated, I see no other solution, unless people magically disappear.

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Feb 16, 2012 9:29 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hoapres

oh boy...now another straw man argument???

"If an H1B is laid off then he is supposed to go home UNLESS he finds another employer in under a month."

nope you are 100% wrong, there is no written rule which says under a month an H1b resource have to find a job. Law clearly says if an H1 got laid off he is out of status right away and his company has to pay all the balance with return ticket to his home country. There is no grace period of 10, 20, 30 or a month whatever you call it. Your latest pay stub has to be part of your Transfer application so if they don't see it is latest then your transfer application could be rejected. May be you need to stop teaching others about a subject you have less understanding.

"Like I said before, I have doubts that you worked in an IT company.  H1Bs get laid off like everybody else and many are illegally in the US as their authorization to work in the US has expired.  The US Department of Homeland Security is pretty lax regarding "rounding up the H1Bs" along with noting that the employer laying off the H1B is supposed to pay for the airplane ticket back home."

LOL...so now you doubt I'm not in IT...

Again another general statement in an attempt to paint H1b say illegally and they are dump...can you show us some authentic data on how many h1b stays here illegally?

Do you know in many states you can't even renew your drivers license without proper H1 paper?

"Given the rapidly declining US IT salaries, very few Indians that can get a job in India are willing to come to the US to live in a "US work camp" being 12+ people stuffed into a 1BR apartment."

LOL...you started making fun of yourself by giving such vague and stereotype comments. Do you have any data to backup on your statement...?

Here is what real data shows...out of 85k allowed H1, 47k is filed by top 25 companies non of them are unknown companies...you mean to say those 47k came here because they couldn't get job in India? Seriously!!!

And top 100 companies got 76k H1b out of 85k allowed, you think they get all 76k from India who was sleeping in road side. You mean to say US jobs are so cheap to you?

Another joke is rapidly declining US IT salary??? My friend it all depends on what technology you can work on. If you are still sitting in Excel 97 for managing account then for sure they don't need you and for sure salary will be declining for such a technology.

IT jobs are not for people who can't upgrade themselves on daily basis, if you want a job where you don't want to learn then for sure IT is not for you and if you could stick around IT your salary will be miserable and will decline on daily basis.

"The Indians coming over to the US for employment for the most part are those that CAN NOT find a job in India. "

Seriously!!! I think we had enough laugh today from your comments...lets continue this fun again tomorrow. I would like to get more fun comments from you otherwise I have no reason to visit Don's blog.

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Feb 16, 2012 11:47 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to hoapres

Would you discourage kids who are passionate about programming and technology from pursuing it the way they would want to even if it means contributing for free?

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Feb 17, 2012 5:34 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Dolores

>> I have still seen many cases of H-1Bs trying to hang on here when they should have been on a plane home. <<

The law says that "out of status" H1Bs are supposed to be "rounded up" sent home at the employers expense.

>> They simply aren't tracked or rounded up, <<

Some hang around for the "H1B severance package" by maxing out their credit cards before leaving the US.

>> There are a lot of them who have overstayed illegally at one point or another. <<

A lot of the NEW H1Bs are getting off due to "lack of production" by not producing enough lines of code.  Given the poor IT salaries in the US along with 12+ living in a 1BR apartment, many of the new H1B arrivals are hardly among "the best and brightest"

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Feb 17, 2012 8:08 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to ITJob

Even though I live in an area with lower H-1B usage than some, I have still seen many cases of H-1Bs trying to hang on here when they should have been on a plane home. They simply aren't tracked or rounded up, There are a lot of them who have overstayed illegally at one point or another. I have seen their online sites give individuals advice on how to get away with this.

The notion that American IT people aren't upgrading themselves on a daily basis doesn't explain the student loan bubble and the prevalence of ongoing educational and training institutions in America. I'm back in grad school for a certificate now, and it's almost all Americans. I'd say well over 90%. Our Indian critics' favorite straw man is the "American techie who wants six figures for basic work" but I have never met such an American in over 20 years in this industry. It's just another lie they tell themselves to justify their thirst for American jobs. Pretty much everything ITJob says is this sort of rationalization.

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Feb 17, 2012 9:07 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to hoapres

I think you have any other straw man argument so started picking topic of credibility about anonymous post. I don't see any reason to prove my profession here.

Is there any rule that only IT people should comment about H1? Please keep the discussion only on the subject not on individual, when you are posting anonymously then there is no question who you are.

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Feb 17, 2012 9:26 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to Dolores

I'm not when people going to stop making generic statements like " I have still seen many cases of H-1Bs trying to hang"...do you have any authority to question their legality if so what action you have taken again such illegal activity.

When you are going to stop complaining about other in public forums with anonymous IDs...

when are you going discharge your duty as a citizen by reporting such illegal activity.

Do you think DHS, ICE or USCIS going to look for your posts around internet to find the culprit ?

"The notion that American IT people aren't upgrading themselves on a daily basis doesn't explain the student loan bubble and the prevalence of ongoing educational and training institutions in America."

Do you mean to say every person who goes to the college comes out with experience? I do understand US lacks places where you can learn things but that doesn't mean H1 resource are to blame...No one stops you to start a company which can only recruit freshers and train them for future job instead of expecting someone will take up that responsibility. If you don't take responsibility then you don't have any rights to complain about it. FYI every H1 application comes with cost for training Citizens not sure where those gets used and who gains out of it. Go question your government for their usage of those funds (which is in millions every year).

H1b is for people with at least 2yrs of experience..so they are not freshers to compare with college grads without any exp.

"I'm back in grad school for a certificate now, and it's almost all Americans. I'd say well over 90%."

Good that you are back to school for a certification but that doesn't mean everyone is doing the same approach of learning every day. On the side note I don't go for certification instead I self learn on my own pace in my person time. I don't think new technologies flushed out can be trained by any college who mostly (few provide real experienced people..but at the end they do sit and self learn to teach me which I can do by myself) have book knowledge.

"Our Indian critics' favorite straw man is the "American techie who wants six figures for basic work" but I have never met such an American in over 20 years in this industry."

Those straw man arguments are there because of some people like you keep claiming "H1bs are super cheap"...when you guys stop throwing such argument then by default others have to drop theirs. My friend it always works on two sides...you start one ppl are smart enough to pick one to counter yours.

" Pretty much everything ITJob says is this sort of rationalization."

Hmmm...here is just what you had posted which falls under same category of rationalization

" I have still seen many cases of H-1Bs trying to hang on here when they should have been on a plane home."

"There are a lot of them who have overstayed illegally at one point or another."

I would suggest you to Better practice before preach it to others...

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Feb 17, 2012 12:47 PM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to ITJob

Like I said before, I have doubts that you have worked for an IT company.

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