Irresponsible Claim: U.S. Firms Have 'Policies' to Displace American Workers

Don Tennant

One of the reasons there's so much fear, uncertainty and doubt in the debate over the demand for foreign technology workers in the United States is that high-profile people in the debate make ridiculous claims that too often go unchallenged. The most outrageous example I've seen in a long time came on Sunday, when immigration reform advocate Ron Hira claimed on national TV that large U.S. companies, including Bank of America and IBM, have policies in place to hire foreigners to displace American workers. Fortunately, that particularly egregious claim was challenged by Hira's nemesis, Vivek Wadhwa.

 

Hira and Wadhwa, two of the most frequently cited voices in their respective camps, are both academics. Hira, who champions efforts to rein in the H-1B and other programs that bring foreign technology workers to the United States, is an associate professor of public policy at Rochester Institute of Technology. Wadhwa, an outspoken advocate for expanding opportunities for foreign technology workers to settle here, is director of research at Duke University's Center for Entrepreneurship and Research Commercialization. The two sparred on the CNN program "Your Money," which is hosted by CNN's Ali Velshi.

 

At one point, Velshi asked Hira whether it was his concern that companies are deliberately refraining from hiring Americans and are bringing in younger foreigners as a means of lowering wages, and whether this is a widespread phenomenon.

 

"I think it's quite widespread right now," Hira replied. "You've got companies like IBM, Bank of America, Pfizer, Wachovia that have all had these policies in place."

 

Wadhwa reacted sharply to that claim, and Velshi stepped in.


 

"Let's clarify it," Velshi said. "You're saying, Ron, that there are companies, and you named them-Bank of America, IBM, Pfizer-that have policies that somehow do this -- they have policies."

 

"That's correct," Hira replied.

 

Wadhwa challenged Hira to provide proof that such policies exist. Velshi continued to seek a clarification from Hira.

 

"Is there a policy?" Velshi asked. "Do they have policies that do this, or are you saying it's a widespread practice?"

 

Apparently, Hira hadn't expected to be challenged. When he was, he backed down.

 

"They have it in practice," Hira replied. "I'll put it that way."


Wadhwa didn't let up. He challenged that statement, too.

 

"No they do not," he said. "That is a dishonest statement." Wadhwa took issue with Hira's contention that the practice was somehow institutionalized in these companies.

 

"There are some outliers-there are some bad companies," Wadhwa acknowledged. "There may be some stupid manager who did something stupid. But when you say that all these big companies have policies to not hire Americans and to displace them, this is complete nonsense. This is the rhetoric that's hurting American competitiveness. We have this xenophobia, this stupidity, and it's scaring the world's best and brightest away, and the American economy is going to decline because of this."

 

I don't know whether the rhetoric is scaring the best and brightest away. But I do know that making the wild claim on national TV that Bank of America, IBM, Pfizer and Wachovia have policies in place to bring in foreign workers as a means of displacing American workers is horribly irresponsible. If Ron Hira is going to continue to argue the case for immigration reform in the media and in Congressional hearings, he would be well advised to stick with the truth and to end his policy, practice, or whatever it is, to deceive the public.



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Oct 31, 2011 1:53 AM American Worker American Worker  says:

Do some research Don. Google 'Pfizer replaces US workers' or 'Pfizer precedure 117'.

With all the Infosys discussion, it might be worth mentioning that an Infosys Pfizer senior director (along with other management staff) were dismissed for 'financial issues' too.

As well - Motorola, American Express, the list goes on.

Ron is correct. Vivek is not.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:17 AM Indian_tatti Indian_tatti  says: in response to American Worker

Looks like DON also sold out to red dots.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:20 AM jake_leone jake_leone  says:

There is the famous case of the engineer at BofA who committed suicide, after being forced to train their replacement.

An IBM exec was caught on tape, discussing policy of replacing and outsourcing a large part of their U.S. workforce.

There are such policies at companies of all sizes.  Molina healthcare is another example of this, it is an endemic problem of abuse of our Visa system.

And hey Don, have your forgotten the Infamous InfoSys case?

The reasons for this are many.

I will speak of one example at my own company.  Recently 2 engineers left for other companies.  Instead of asking for resumes, an immediate call was made to HR, to bring in an L-1 and H1-B replacements for these workers. 

There was no discussion or request for resumes, not one free job posting on Dice.  No the only answer was to just bring in people on a Visa.  In other words, use the Visa system as the primary method for finding workers for jobs on U.S. soil. 

BTW, both of these position are for junior engineering jobs.  Jobs that could be done by a video game tester.  Basically just test the GUI and find bugs there.  Good Starting jobs, for trainees, who might earn their way through college (maybe become Engineers).

It is far easier for a manager to make request to HR, to bring someone from foreign office over on a visa, than to go through the hiring process.  The hiring process takes man-days, the visa process is a 10 minute phone call.

So Don, Vivek are completely wrong on this.  Thankfully Ron is out there spreading the truth about how the visa system is used.  Often as the first, primary, and only method for obtaining workers for jobs on U.S. soil.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:28 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says:

"Irresponsible Claim: U.S. Firms Have 'Policies' to Displace American Workers"

If you replace the word "to" with "that" I think it is an entirely fair statement for most firms that use the program.  If we are talking some of the less than scrupulous body shops, I think the word "to" is also appropriate in most cases.

US firms have policies THAT displace American workers.  There is really no disputing this statement because it is true in almost all cases.  The word "to" implies that the motive is simply to rid US firms of American workers.  I don't think the explanation is so simple. 

The motive is financially based in most cases and primarily designed to increase the supply of labor with workers who are typically paid less and part of a "captive" workforce - meaning limited rights of mobility in the labor force because of restrictions on their visa.

The end result is that American wages and working conditions are reduced and American workers are displaced both directly and indirectly.  I am speaking of offshore outsourcing when I say indirectly.  Many of the H-1b workers are the feet on the ground and assist in offshore projects - displacing even more workers indirectly.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:29 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to jake_leone

Ron finally backed down when he was challenged about these companies having policies to this effect, and said instead, "They have it in practice. I'll put it that way." Why do you suppose he did that? If these companies truly have these polices in place, as he initially insisted, why didn't he stick to his guns?

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Oct 31, 2011 2:33 AM Indian_tatti Indian_tatti  says: in response to Don Tennant

DON, did you sold yourself?

You forgot Infosys case.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:39 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says:

"If Ron Hira is going to continue to argue the case for immigration reform in the media and in Congressional hearings, he would be well advised to stick with the truth and to end his policy, practice, or whatever it is, to deceive the public."

Whadwa is mincing words and attempting to manipulate the facts himself.  The fact is that policies DO displace American workers.  The motive is irrelevant.  I don't care if they do it to save money, or because they are racist.  At the end of the day American workers take less money home to their families because of corporate sponsored immigration policies.

Don, Ron Hira has been one of the most well-spoken and factual people on this subject.  Just like I don't think it is right that some people have silly and racist things to say about you when you speak your mind (like the "red-dot" comment earlier in this thread), I think it is unfair to essentially call Ron Hira a liar.  If you parse his words - spoken on live television where there is immense pressure - sure you may find some disagreement.  But to call him a deceiver of the public is not fair.  Frankly, I think you owe the guy an apology.

There is empirical data supporting claims that these programs harm American workers.  To not acknowledge that is to ignore some very well established facts.  Not only does it harm American workers, but because of the limited mobility of H-1b visa holders and the "green-card-carrot" it also is very unfair to foreign workers.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:41 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to jake_leone

I could tell Vivek had nothing, the moment he used the curse "Xenophobic".

Who's more Xenophobic than a Nazi? Basically people who tend to cast anyone, with any opinion, fact, or experience about making the job marketplace open to U.S. citizens as Xenophobic (AKA Nazi), and it simply isn't true.

It's an argument based on hysteria, you may as well call Ron a Communist.

Look, I love India, Mexico and I do enjoy the beautiful mix of culture in the Bay Area, It's awesome. 

But what is happening in the tech industry is that a capital intensive economy is being replaced with a labor instensive economy.  Because the cost of workers are so low. 

Companies used to buy tools for workers, for example Quick Test Pro and SilkTest have been replaced by less usable, less functional free-ware such as Selenium.  Selenium is not an improvement over these 2 tools.  But it is free, it just takes more man-hours to create the same amount of code coverage.

And that is not a complementary relationship, that is a job-destructive relationship for U.S. workers.  And a step-back in the ability of U.S. workers to increase their software development productivity.

Well you can see this mirrored over-and-over.  Instead of buying a good ETL tool, just have the worker write custom code to access the data via Java.  When the tool costs 40k, and the worker costs half that, why should we invest in a tool???

Same can be seen in training and education, in other words the the ability for Silicon Valley to mentor the next Wozniak or Jobs, is gone, forget about it.  Because we can just get trainee from abroad, who won't ever leave, because they can't get Green Card till we say so.

And if you listen to Ron Hira, that is his biggest concern, and I share his sympathies, we should be making real reform that targets long-term workers for the United States, not short-term trainees and outsourcing engineers.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:46 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don I would have nailed this one.  Too bad I need Medical, otherwise I would be public commentator (or a serious Wanna-Be commentator).

It's tough to bring all that to bear when put on the spot.  The best forum for this debate is a slow 30-60 minute discussion where commentators can bring in the evidence and information and take time to speak.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:53 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Indian_tatti

I typically don't respond to people who are unable to make a point without hurling a personal insult, but I'll make an exception in your case. You can be assured that I have not forgotten the Infosys case. I would submit to you that Ron Hira's claim that these companies have "policies" to displace U.S. workers benefits companies like Infosys that engage in these illegal practices, because they can hide behind the false statements of high-profile immigration reform advocates. It is untruthful to say these companies have "policies" to do this stuff, and Hira finally backed down and admitted that. To be untruthful is to be deceptive, and the point of my post is that this deception hurts the immigration reform cause.

P.S.

If you post another comment that contains a personal insult, I will delete it.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:54 AM Whistle Blower Whistle Blower  says:

Hi Don,

I worked at IBM,  and yes, there is an official policy to displace US workers with low cost guest workers.  This is a fact.  I have seen the internal memos.  What they are doing is completely legal.  IBM is not breaking the law, but they will displace US workers with H-1b's and L1's to cut costs.  Why do you think they have so many lobbyists in Washington? One of the main issues they lobby for is access to low paid guest workers.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:55 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to Jake_Leone

I thinks this is the essential problem here. 

The evidence I stated (and is publicly available) as well as that presented by others points to a reality, that many companies have a policies of replacing workers with alternate workers that come in on a visa.

The policy takes many forms, hey every company is different, different people, different ways of accomplishing the same task. 

We can cut through all of that by making it a requirement, that companies attest (under threat of Federal Perjury, the same as any Tax Form) that that they have made and are continuing to make a good faith effort to hire a local candidate before turning to the U.S. Visa Government Program for public assistance in meeting their U.S. hiring needs.

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Oct 31, 2011 2:56 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says: in response to Jake_Leone

I agree.  This was "gotcha television" where one slip of the tongue is used to negate your entire argument.  This is why I don't watch news on television anymore - because they scratch the surface of issues and don't really inform the public.

My little spin on Mark Twain (who said this about newspapers):

If you don't watch the news, you aren't informed.  If you do watch the news, you are mis-informed. 

The bottom line is that commercial news is all about marketing products for industry - that's how they are funded.  It is silly to think that commercial news will bite the hand that feeds them.  They may nip at it every now and have the appearance of being non-biased, but they never take flesh.  The anchors who do take flesh are usually out of a job very soon after.

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Oct 31, 2011 3:00 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to Jake_Leone

The title of may last statement is:

"If it looks like it? ... If it smells like it? ... Do you really need to eat it?"

When we can adopt a policy that will successfully avoid it altogether.

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Oct 31, 2011 3:09 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Roy Lawson

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you, Roy. This isn't parsing or mincing words, in my opinion. Claiming that these companies actually do this stuff as a matter of policy was outrageous, and it's the type of thing that people start to believe if it's repeated often enough without being challenged. If Wadhwa hadn't been there to challenge him, millions of people would have been left with the understanding that these companies have these policies in place. They do not, as Hira acknowledged, but only after being challenged.

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Oct 31, 2011 3:19 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Whistle Blower

Have you actually filed a whistleblower complaint? Do you have proof in your possession that IBM does this as a matter of policy? If not, you're just adding to the FUD. If so, you're sitting on the biggest story of the year.

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Oct 31, 2011 3:33 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to Don Tennant

Given all the cases where this has in fact occurred.  And given the now public information provided (such as the Infamous IBM board-room tape). 

Isn't it about time that we had a strong suspicion that companies do in fact have such policies?

It would be irresponsible to not suspect that this is in fact the case!

And given that the U.S. Visa Program, is a government program.  Which subsidizes the monetary hiring requirements of companies Foreign and Domestic.  Isn't is just plain-common, lucid-, sense that the United States, in rendering such public assistance, should be allowed to gather information that would help use better administer this program?

This whole thing can be avoided by requiring companies that accept this welfare, to attest that they have made a real-effort to hire locally, before turning to the U.S. visa system.

Every worker we take off the unemployment line, is like adding 2 workers to our payroll as far as the Federal Deficit is concerned.

Please, let's not be a bunch of idiot-Anarchists anymore. 

Because privatizing the Wealth and harnessing the public to pay the debt when it falls apart is economically destructive.

When you use the government to subsidize your hiring, you are just another welfare case, and you must be prepared to disclose what you do with that assistance.

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Oct 31, 2011 4:24 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says:

Of course American workers are being displaced, Roy. Of course they are. But the moment we take our eye off of what's happening in real life and start to make reckless claims like Hira's assertion that it is the policy of these very high-profile companies to displace American workers, we give companies like Infosys ammunition to plead a case that immigration reformers are making false claims. It's very similar to my longstanding argument that the anti-immigration haters have severely clouded the need to reform the H-1B program, because the voice of reform for so long was outshouted by the voice of hate. In this case, the true situation we have of American workers being displaced in practice is being clouded by the FUD created by the spread of a claim that massive corporations are doing this as a matter of corporate policy. Infosys says, "Show me the policy." And Infosys wins. I hate that.

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Oct 31, 2011 4:45 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to Don Tennant

A dear tax attorney once told me, there's nothing more valuable than cash.  And his intent was, if you are doing a contract job, and you can get the money in cash, what you declare is your business.

Well amplify that by billions, and you can see the incentive for corporations to hide as much of their activities as possible.  And to shroud that truth in veil of lies.  1. If you can't get them to believe the lie, 2. then appeal to hysteria,  if you can't get hysteria to work, buy ads to make yourself look as innocent as possible, as good as possible (aka the victim), then try the first 2 again.

If welfare recipients must take a drug test, if taxpayers have to attest they have declared everything, why can't Corporations also be made to attest that they are not abusing a government program???

So attest, put-up or shut-up, or stop-(ab)using a government program.

It's something we all do once a year, why can't the Corporations and their officials do the same (if they want the safetey, privilege, and benefits) of using government programs?

What do they have fear???  The truth???

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Oct 31, 2011 4:49 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Don Tennant

Of course companies are displacing American workers and not just in IT.  Displacing workers in IT is easier since H1Bs are used as "insourcing" visas with the soon to be laid off Americans as a condition of receiving their severance to train their H1B replacements and taking the jobs overseas.

This stuff has been going on for decades : 1. First it was the manufacturing industry such as autos 2. And now it is IT.

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Oct 31, 2011 4:54 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says: in response to Don Tennant

I don't think we are as far apart as I was beginning to think Don.

"Of course American workers are being displaced, Roy. Of course they are."

A very important fact - which I was certain we agreed upon and glad we still do.

"But the moment we take our eye off of what's happening in real life and start to make reckless claims like Hira's assertion that it is the policy of these very high-profile companies to displace American workers, we give companies like Infosys ammunition to plead a case that immigration reformers are making false claims."

I agree that we need to be accurate and prepared to publicly debate this issue.  I agree that giving Infosys more ammunition is a bad idea.  When I think "corporate policy" I think not only in terms of what their official corporate policies are, but what their corporate actions are.

I'm assuming that IBM doesn't have a corporate policy, somewhere in their corporate manuals containing corporate policies that explicitly state "it is our policy to replace American workers with lower paid foreign workers".

Their written policies matter little to me when their actions have done the same.  IBM has systemically shifted jobs in the United States to India for decades.  Their American headcount has gone down, while their foreign headcount has gone up.  The company engineers in the 80s and early 90s coveted is no longer the company it once was.

If your argument is that "we need to watch what we say and make sure we don't mis-speak" I agree with you 100%.  The truth is on our side, so there is really no reason to speak in fictions.

I just don't think Hira spoke with the intention to deceive.  If you believe that corporate actions equate to corporate policies, there is truth in what Hira said.  If you believe that the word "corporate policy" applies only to official corporate procedures that are documented, then Hira mis-spoke. 

I think that Whadwa saw an opportunity and jumped on it - just like he never misses an opportunity to call people who don't agree with him xenophobes.  He has called me a xenophobe to my face, and I make very strong efforts to not be that way and I certainly don't want my arguments to be based on a fear of foreign people.  I support the rights of foreign workers and believe we should welcome them in a way that is respectful to both them and American workers.  The bottom line is that either you agree with Whadwa, or you "obviously" have some hatred or fear of foreigners.

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Oct 31, 2011 5:45 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Don Tennant

>> It's very similar to my longstanding argument that the anti-immigration haters have severely clouded the need to reform the H-1B program, because the voice of reform for so long was outshouted by the voice of hate. <<

Got that wrong.

The H1B proponents have simply too much in resources and political influence such that no one (at least until now) ever paid attention to H1B opponents in the first place.

The only good thing perhaps (assuming the following is a good thing) is that companies are offshoring more and more work such that they don't need to bring in foreign workers except on a temporary basis to teach skills necessary to offshore the work.

If you want an IT job then your chances for success are much better in India with fewer and fewer Indians willing to come over to the US.  Why come to the US when you can do so much better in India ??

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Oct 31, 2011 9:06 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says:

Well it may not be an official or written policy but we all know that IS their policies and that that is their intention.And we do know it is WIDESPREAD.What more does one need to know.Sorry Don, you're not weaseling out of this one just because it's not written down anywhere.It IS happening.All the foreigners now in IT management (which is 90% of them) come from other jealous, America-hating countries and they will do everything to make sure Americans are kept out of the workforce.Why?1) Because they are jealous of our success, 2) because they can't stand to see us making more than they do in their countries, and 3) keeping Americans out paves the way for them to go whine to Congress that they can't find enough qualified people and thus need to bring in MORE foreign workers so they took can feed at the Great American Griftology Trough called IT (that Americans built BTW).Yes, it is happening, yes, it is the unwriten policies of most companies, yes, it is rampant.How much more do you need to see Don than the Cohen &Grigsby video on YouTube where the lawyers says "Ways to not find a qualified American worker".Come on Don, we all know it is going on.Hira is dead on - companies are deliberately keeping Americans out of IT jobs because they are perceived as too expensive, might leave for another offer with more $, and just plain downright international jealousy that we created great high-paying jobs and they didn't.The whole world is jealous of Americans and their success and this is how foreigners provide payback.

And how do you know the claim is 'irresponsible' Don?Are you a software developer?Have you worked in software and seen it firsthand?How do you know Wadhwa isn't lying and Hira is.Hira probably backed down because yes, there is no official WRITTEN policy written down anywhere.But he is right on that this is what companies are doing.It's sort of a wink-wink, nudge-nudge, thing, not in a company handbook.

Wadhwa is being paid by NASSCOM or maybe Wipro, or maybe both.He talks so fast even a used car salesman wouldn't believe him.India, Inc.knows its crimes against the American workforce and it knows it is guilty.And Wadhwa is their spokesman.This is damage control.Wadhwa is being paid to say what he is saying.

I have been in software 20 years.I have Objective-C and iOS skills.I used to write software at Apple and Sony - just to name a few.I've worked for all the top companies.I applied for an iOS job at Alpine and one at Logitech last week.

The Alpine hiring manager was Maylasian.The Logitech one was Canadian.Neither one had any intention of hiring me.They "interviewed" me merely to get my resume or so they could say they did look for Americans but couldn't find any.That's the only reason.They want cheap foreign labor or they are jealous 3rd worlders who hate American success and want to see us unemployed.And this is not the first time, either.I have been experiencing this same nonsense on and off for over 8 years.

India has a bad history with the British.In school from age 3 they are taught they are poor because evil whites came and colonized them and stole all their wealth.20 years goes by and these people are now adults who get work visas and now work in our companies.When it comes time to hire a programmer, who do you think is going to get hired?Not the white American male programmer, that is for sure.Come on Don, we've been over this before.This is anti-Americanism payback for all the perceived wrongs America did to everyone else in the world. Reply

Oct 31, 2011 9:06 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says:
And corporate greed.This IS really going on - companies and foreigners are deliberately keeping Americans (even the most qualified Americans) out of jobs.Why do you think the economy is so bad Don but it was booming when we were working these jobs?Foreigners who cannot make their own countries work cannot sustain industries built by Americans either.One Indian even told me "Indians are having a royal party in the US at your expense".So there you have it.This is all about payback.Hira is right on and telling the truth and Fraudhwa is just NASSCOM's mouthpiece trying to do damage control now that word has gotten out.The faster he talks, the less we can believe him.

As for xenophobia, yes, we should be afraid of a race that believes white westerners caused all their problems and whose goal is now to come here and make off with as much of our wealth as they can and dismnatle our industries at the same time.I'm not afraid of the Swedes or Norweigians, but theyn again, they don't have an agenda to pull my country down from its foundations either.Yes, xenophobia of enemy countries that want to harm us is perfectly ok.

In WW2 Wadhwa would have been arguing that Hitler and Imperial Japan were our buddies too.Why did we fight WW2 if fear of takeover and conquest is a bad thing?

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Oct 31, 2011 9:18 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says:

"Wave after wave of immigrants coming here making Americans work harder and think smarter".

Not only is this statement not true, it's historically inaccurate.

Here are the waves of immigrants to the US since 1900:

1906-1921 - Mass immigration from Europe. Massive depression and world war followed.

1965 - Ted Kennedy's Immigration Act passed - massive economic collapse from 1973-1983.

1990 - H1-B program started - big recession 1991-1993.

1998 - Visa caps raised to 115,000

2000 - Visa caps raised to 195,000 - Both of which led to the 2001 and the 2008 collapses.

Conclusion: every mass immigration wave to the US since 1900 has caused economic collapse.

The fact is, most of the immigrants we are brining in today from the 3rd world grew up learning in school that they are poor because of ol' evil whitey who robbed them.

Now they are in the US and deliberately keeping (mostly white) Americans out of jobs.

Terrorizing the local workforce is not a way to get them to "work header and think smarter", professor.

Making Americans work harder and think smarter? Sorry, but we were doing that on our own long before the invasion started in 1998.

All Americans are doing now is working in jobs that are way beneath their capabilities since the angry 3rd worlders are keeping them out of skilled jobs in their OWN country.

Americans invented all this tech and invented Silicon Valley. In 1998 India and China couldn't compete in IT. We don't need anyone to make us 'work harder or think smarter'.

Rather it is China and India who need to work harder and think smarter and create a few industries of their own instead of stealing industries from other countries. How many industries have China and India given to the world in the past 100 years? ZERO! Why do Americans always have to do the hard work of creating the new industries but everyone else gets all the jobs. Is that 'irresponsible' too professor? What is going on is industrial theft of America - we bring in unskilled foreign worker, train them here in our best industries so they can learn, then they go home and compete from there against us. Training ANOTHER country's workforce does not keep the US competitive - it keeps the OTHER countries competitive. We HAD no competition in IT in 1998 UNTIL we began bringing in foreign wannabes and training them here.

No professor, we're not harranguing Silicon Valley companies. We have all the 'talent' right here in America we need. We're simply demanding Silicon Valley companies follow the law and that all the FOREIGN GUEST WORKERS GO HOME as originally agreed in 1998. We don't need the 'talent' of unproductive countries. The only 'talent' these countries have is for deception, fakery, and robbing us. While we're at it, we ought to deport YOU too, professor.

And no, the training of these foreign workers by Americans is not only happening at one company - it's rampant and happening all over the US.

So just how skilled are these foreign immigrants if we have to train them to be able to do the jobs here professor?

The fact of the matter is these guest worker visa programs are a new form of communism - taking jobs Americans created and giving them away to foreign workers for the sole purpose of providing them employment, skills, and experience. We don't need these workers - they need us!

America is the unwitting victim of the new communism called Globalization. Read Mikhail Gorbachev's 1989 book Perestroika - in it he says "Western companies must accept this." - in other words, they must accept globalization and foreign workers - so that foreign workers can have what we EARNED. That is communism, plain and simple.

Now you know what is going on.

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Oct 31, 2011 9:19 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says:

"Wave after wave of immigrants coming here making Americans work harder and think smarter".

Not only is this statement not true, it's historically inaccurate.

Here are the waves of immigrants to the US since 1900:

1906-1921 - Mass immigration from Europe.Massive depression and world war followed.

1965 - Ted Kennedy's Immigration Act passed - massive economic collapse from 1973-1983.

1990 - H1-B program started - big recession 1991-1993.

1998 - Visa caps raised to 115,000

2000 - Visa caps raised to 195,000 - Both of which led to the 2001 and the 2008 collapses.

Conclusion:every mass immigration wave to the US since 1900 has caused economic collapse.

The fact is, most of the immigrants we are brining in today from the 3rd world grew up learning in school that they are poor because of ol' evil whitey who robbed them.

Now they are in the US and deliberately keeping (mostly white) Americans out of jobs.

Terrorizing the local workforce is not a way to get them to "work header and think smarter", professor.

Making Americans work harder and think smarter?Sorry, but we were doing that on our own long before the invasion started in 1998.

All Americans are doing now is working in jobs that are way beneath their capabilities since the angry 3rd worlders are keeping them out of skilled jobs in their OWN country.

Americans invented all this tech and invented Silicon Valley.In 1998 India and China couldn't compete in IT.We don't need anyone to make us 'work harder or think smarter'.

Rather it is China and India who need to work harder and think smarter and create a few industries of their own instead of stealing industries from other countries.How many industries have China and India given to the world in the past 100 years?ZERO!Why do Americans always have to do the hard work of creating the new industries but everyone else gets all the jobs.Is that 'irresponsible' too professor?What is going on is industrial theft of America - we bring in unskilled foreign worker, train them here in our best industries so they can learn, then they go home and compete from there against us.Training ANOTHER country's workforce does not keep the US competitive - it keeps the OTHER countries competitive.We HAD no competition in IT in 1998 UNTIL we began bringing in foreign wannabes and training them here.

No professor, we're not harranguing Silicon Valley companies.We have all the 'talent' right here in America we need.We're simply demanding Silicon Valley companies follow the law and that all the FOREIGN GUEST WORKERS GO HOME as originally agreed in 1998.We don't need the 'talent' of unproductive countries.The only 'talent' these countries have is for deception, fakery, and robbing us.While we're at it, we ought to deport YOU too, professor.

And no, the training of these foreign workers by Americans is not only happening at one company - it's rampant and happening all over the US.

So just how skilled are these foreign immigrants if we have to train them to be able to do the jobs here professor?

The fact of the matter is these guest worker visa programs are a new form of communism - taking jobs Americans created and giving them away to foreign workers for the sole purpose of providing them employment, skills, and experience.We don't need these workers - they need us!

America is the unwitting victim of the new communism called Globalization. Reply

Oct 31, 2011 9:19 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says:
Read Mikhail Gorbachev's 1989 book Perestroika - in it he says "Western companies must accept this." - in other words, they must accept globalization and foreign workers - so that foreign workers can have what we EARNED.That is communism, plain and simple.

Now you know what is going on.

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Oct 31, 2011 9:52 AM Madagasper Madagasper  says:

Don, you missed the X bomb Wadhwa dropped and instead got fixated on this bogus hairsplitting  of what Hira said.  Wadhwa's claim about xenophobia is outrageous and is nowadays standard operating procedure for Third Worlders to put you white guys on the defensive.  Looks like you fell for it.  What are your limits to political correctness?  Apparently you don't have any.  Did you require proof from Wadhwa for his charge of xenophobia?  Note that by Wadhwa's yardstick, you are also a xenophobe given your dogged pursuit of Infosys.  One more thing, I got a laugh reading that Wadhwa is an 'academic'.  How standards have dropped these days.

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Nov 1, 2011 1:03 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to chm

Hira is an associate professor, not an assistant professor.

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Nov 1, 2011 1:17 AM chm chm  says: in response to Don Tennant

Ok thanks for clarification.

I saw this in here which must be very old: www.uscc.gov/bios/2005bios/05_01_13bios/hira_ron.htm

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Nov 1, 2011 3:50 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Roy Lawson

Yes I believe "that" is probably the term RH should have used. Trying to fixate on a "smoking gun" memo or something that explicitly incriminates a company is going to be very hard, especially in the light of the Infosys situation. I'm sure since that came to light, 1000s of emails and pages of internal documents have been erased/destroyed and all future ones are fed through a filter of paid company attorneys to expunge any hint of incrimination. But as with the definition of "obscenity" for which the observation "I'll know it when I see it", one can see a clear trend in the IT industry to cut costs by moving work to cheaper outsourced labor. People like VW are similar to the "scientists" who defended the plastics industry's use of chemicals like BPA. Until of course the lie became too big to spin away.

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Nov 1, 2011 3:53 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Don Tennant

Wandering Don is at it again. 

Once Don "gets busted" showing that the posted blog was dubious at best if not outright wrong then he "wanders on" with another blog post.

Some of the more memorable :

1. Citing someone to stop complaining and go back to work.  We find out that the "success" story is an IT person getting a throw away ATT customer service rep job at $14 an hour.  Don never responds to the question if $14 an hour should be considered a success

2.  Citing a recruiter to "man up" whose "recruiter" credentials in IT are dubious at best.  Right.  "Get in shape and work out".  Right.  If you are not in physical shape then you won't get an IT job.  Right.  It appears that the "recruiter" is not really involved in IT staffing in the first place.

Time for Don to "wander on" again

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Nov 1, 2011 11:57 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Wakjob

>> Well it may not be an official or written policy but we all know that IS their policies and that that is their intention. And we do know it is WIDESPREAD. What more does one need to know. <<

Exactly right.  And in some cases a written policy might exist but it certainly won't be advertised.

>> Sorry Don, you're not weaseling out of this one just because it's not written down anywhere. <<

In defense of Don he does allow comments to his blogs unlike Ms. Hall's dubious blogs based on bogus job counts of "the booming high tech field" or being an advertisement for useless CompTIA certs. 

Given the above, Don weasels out by simply ignoring the unpleasant facts with a new post.

Carry on Don.

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Nov 1, 2011 12:59 PM chm chm  says: in response to Madagasper

"One more thing, I got a laugh reading that Wadhwa is an 'academic'.  How standards have dropped these days."

Can you elaborate more as per your standards?

Considering I don't know either of them personally, I see Vivek Wadhwa is a visiting scholar at University of California-Berkeley, senior research associate at Harvard Law School, and director of research at the Center for Entrepreneurship and Research Commercialization at Duke University.

And Dr. Ron Hira, is an 'Assistant' Professor of Public Policy at Rochester Institute of Technology.

DIsclaimer: I'm not taking any side here. My sole purpose is to find significance of above quoted last 2 sentences.

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Nov 2, 2011 1:34 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says: in response to chm

"The Indus Entrepreneurs (TiE), was founded in 1992 in Silicon Valley by a group of successful entrepreneurs, corporate executives, and senior professionals with roots in the Indus region."

Wadhwa is a chapter founder of a TiE group in his locality, he has a background in offshoring to India, and he clearly is interested in growth and entrepreneurship between India and the US. The leaders of TiE are "who's who" of India's executive class.

I'm not criticizing his participation in this business group. I am however criticizing his ability to produce quality research free from outside influence. I do question why Duke would put a person like this in a director position in charge of research. Funny thing is, I couldn't find Wadhwa listed on the faculty page of CERC:www.bme.duke.edu/faculty. ;He does not appear to be a director at CERC so I would be interested in knowing where you found those credentials.

The page I did find him listed on was his personal Duke page:www.soc.duke.edu/GlobalEngineering/vivekwadhwa.php where his title is listed as "executive in residence/adjunct professor". He doesn't to my knowledge have a doctorate (he has an MBA).

There should be no doubt that Wadhwa is behaving more like a promoter of business in India (and himself) than as an academic. Simply put, he does not care about American professionals or their prospects. He also has shown little regard for Indian workers and he has never publicly spoken against the H-1b provisions that limit worker mobility or tie them to the company. He has been an outspoken proponent an H-1b cap that ignores the labor market. 

He has privately agreed with me on some of the unfair aspects of the H-1b visa, but I challenge anyone to find public statements to that effect. Whadwa represents corporate interests, and more precisely the interests of Indian corporations and the offshoring model. Publicly he is a cheerleader for the H-1b visa.

The fact that he is (said to be) the Director of Research at the Center for Entrepreneurship and Research Commercialization at Duke University is an affront to anyone who really cares about the sanctity of research. A director of research in academia should be a true researcher, not someone with a corporate agenda. 

If you read his bio on the Duke website, his specialization is "Globalization, Outsourcing, Entrepreneurship". I'm not suggesting that he isn't an intelligent person or has not been successful. I am suggesting that his academic behavior has been more of an exercise in self-promotion than as a researcher. 

I found an interesting link on one of his "studies" to globalizationresearch.com. It redirects you to wadhwa.com. That study can be found here:www.law.harvard.edu/programs/lwp/people/staffPapers/vivek/Vivek%20Wadhwa%20Immigrants%20and%20Returnees.pdf

If you read this paper you will discover that "We learned that the driving force behind offshoring and outsourcing

was cost saving -- and not the quality or skill of American workers."  Reply

Nov 2, 2011 1:34 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says: in response to chm
You also find that "Our current research shows that the shift of research and innovation to India and China is being

aided by the increasing numbers of returnees to these countries from the U.S."

So, why on Earth would Wadhwa support a TEMPORARY corporate sponsored visa program where almost all eventually return back to their home country - and in his words - aid in the "shift of research and innovation to India and China"? 

Wadhwa knows what occurs, he complains about flawed immigration policy, yet he is a champion of a visa program that is a key part of the problem and that REQUIRES most of them go go home.

His role with these universities as a researcher has been hyper-inflated. He's an adjunct faculty member.Here is what he really does:

today.duke.edu/2005/08/wadhwa.html

"Glass said Wadhwa will advise faculty interested in commercializing technology developed at Duke.Glass said he hopes to engage Wadhwa in campus entrepreneurial activities such as the Duke Startup Challenge and TechEval.Wadhwa will also assist in establishing a corporate advisory board of top industry leaders for the MEM program."

Let's talk about all the jobs Wadwha created here in the US. First, he was a co-founder of Relativity Technologies, Inc.This company was bought out in 2008 by Micro Focus International - a UK based company. What are their services? Virtual Mainframe, COBOL without barriers, Borland solutions. Wow, how innovative. So why did they sell?

wraltechwire.com/business/tech_wire/news/story/4100136/

"Relativity Technologies, which works with firms to modernize enterprise software applications, is being sold to Micro Focus International in a deal worth $9.7 million in cash.

The deal is expected to close by year€™s end.

The selling price reflects a small return for investors such as Noro-Moseley Partners in Atlanta, Wakefield Group in Chapel Hill, Intel Capital and Wachovia Strategic Ventures.Backers, including current Chief Executive Officer Steve Masonave, had poured more than $24 million into the firm since its founding in 1997 by serial entrepreneur Vivek Wadhwa."

That is the first time I've heard Wadhwa referred to as a "serial entrepreneur". Fitting title for this self promoter. What is the likely outcome of doing business with Wadhwa?

"Wadhwa, who left Relativity in a bitter dispute with its investors and no longer holds an interest in the company, said the sale price seemed low to him."

This dispute isn't mentioned in his bio. Instead he mentions being called "Leader of Tomorrow" by Forbes.com for his role in the doomed company. He is a failed leader of yesteryear. He is really just a smooth talker, as evidenced by this article in 2002:

"Mouth piece:Vivek Wadhwa's talent for trumpeting his company shines, but observers want to see another kind of performance.(Feature)."

Source:www.allbusiness.com/technology/computer-software/174062-1.html#ixzz1cZJt9ndR

I find it amazing as CEO he essentially admitted he was scared about the future and so embarrassed about earnings that he wouldn't disclose them: Reply

Nov 2, 2011 1:35 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says: in response to chm

"Like many companies, Relativity had a lousy 2001.Wadhwa, usually more than willing to spout stats, says he's too embarrassed to disclose last year's revenue."We went through four months when deals stopped closing.I've never been that scared about the company." But, he adds, the company made a profit in the fourth quarter, thanks to cost cutting, and should turn one in 2002."

His other claim to fame is his role at Seer Technologies. Here is what they have to say about him:

archive.apnic.net/mailing-lists/s-asia-it/archive/2001/07/msg00059.html

New York, July 24 (IANS) When Seer Technologies, an IBM spin-off, told its researcher Vivek Wadhwa it was not interested in his "junk" technology, the feisty Wadhwa said he would gladly haul it away."

I discovered this in an article where he was trumpeting his role (in soon to fail company) Relativity Technologies.

Key quotes about Vivek you can take away are:

-When Seer Technologies, an IBM spin-off, told its

researcher Vivek Wadhwa it was not interested in his "junk" technology, the feisty Wadhwa said he would gladly haul it away.

-"My business plan shows a 150 percent growth rate next year," says Wadhwa, but admits in the same breath that "the last four months have been so dismal. 

-"We had the proud distinction of being among the first dot-com bubbles to burst."

-At about 11:30, he stops jawing.Now his mouth must perform an act less valuable to Relativity but more essential to his survival:It's lunchtime."If we wait too long, the vultures will settle in," he quips.He's referring to his employees, not, as he has on other occasions, venture capitalists.

RL:I'm not sure I believe this article. They said his jaws stop at 11:30 am. That can't be true. And he refers to his employees as VULTURES! No wonder he has no regard for workers. OMFG.

-Earlier this year, Wadhwa refused to go public because he believed his

company was being undervalued.

-"My prediction is in five years we will be into mobile handheld devices that are always on a handheld screen that talks back to you.You will have full motion video on it, and will be watching your daughter on the screen," he said.

-"Relativity is working with UBS PaineWebber to upgrade its systems."The fact that we're getting this type of coverage is unbelievable," he crows."

RL:Funny that a tech company needs another firm to upgrade their systems. How could anyone trust them with their legacy systems?

-"Find a good story, tell it well, return their calls and be persistent.He bugged a Wall Street Journal reporter for four months before a story was written.He's convinced that hype leads to sales." - RL:this is a reporter describing Wadhwas view on sales.

RL:Well, I can honestly say he was almost there on the mobile prediction (off a few years). But I can't believe he said "we will be watching your daughter on the screen".

RL:After digging into Wadhwa's past, I find it amazing that this guy was invited to speak to Congress, or that respected universities allow him to do anything remotely resembling "research".

RL:I have got to be honest. I was expecting to find bland PR when looking into his claims to fame.  Reply

Nov 2, 2011 1:35 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says: in response to chm
I never in my wildest dreams expected to uncover the truth about Vivek:the man is not grounded in reality. He is a promoter of ideas, no matter how crazy they are. He is more qualified to be a pitchman than he is to be roaming the halls of academia. I am on the floor right now. This guy has fooled a lot of people for a very long time.

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Nov 2, 2011 1:48 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to sanych

One senior executive was asked what would she tell her child if the child wants to get into computer career as the companies move jobs out of the country. Her reply was that her child has "artistic" inclinations and wants to dance.

Just what we need to rebuild America... more dancers. They do need entertainment down at the unemployment office for the people standing in line. Same at the food stamp office.

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Nov 2, 2011 3:24 AM Madagasper Madagasper  says: in response to Roy Lawson

R.Lawson,

Tell me something I didn't already know.  You figured out Wadhwa only today?  Americans have been taken for a ride the past 15 years.  Look at how the Pakistani Musharraf played Americans like putty.  Even today the Pakistani generals are running circles around the Americans.  It is important to be discerning.  You don't want to paint every Indian or Pakistani with the same brush.  But you have to gain an insight into their cultural character to be discerning.  The biggest joke is that the people who come from countries that are third world dumps are being sought by Congress to give it advice.  Talk about extreme absurd.

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Nov 2, 2011 3:52 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says: in response to Madagasper

I knew there was a bit of grandstanding and puffery from Wadwha, and I have taken notice of his work and some of his writing ("research") for several years now.  My primary objection to Wadwha is how he appears to use academia and overstates his role within these institutions in order to increase his own credibility.  I didn't realize until today that many of his reported triumphs were in fact dismal failures.

Wadhwa takes great pains to build himself up as an authority figure.  He really isn't a star in academia, but he plays one on TV. 

If Wadhwa wants to be taken seriously as a researcher and academic, step one is to actually get a Ph.D. in something and spend more time in the classroom than on TV, and spend more time writing peer-reviewed research than on writing editorials and politically motivated "studies".

There is nothing wrong with being an adjunct professor (I may do it).   It's noble work.  But you are more likely to be seen as cheap labor than as an academic to be taken seriously.  You aren't viewed by faculty as a "real" professor - more like an instructor with a graduate degree.  It's an important role, but it doesn't qualify you to present yourself as some elite researcher or academic.

Anytime I read an article with Whadwa in it, he is certain to drop in schools like "Harvard", "Duke", and "Berkley".  He always drops names of people in those institutions.  He's a name dropper.  It's what people without credibility do to establish their own credibility.  They ride the coattails of others.

And his other trick is to pull the xenophobe card.  Instead of debate people on facts, he has found ways to attack the character of people.  My advice to Wadhwa: if you live in a glass house, you shouldn't throw rocks.

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Nov 2, 2011 4:25 AM John80224 John80224  says: in response to Don Tennant

Umm, maybe because he's not a politician and acquiesced to the synonym "practice" over "policy" because, yes, there are some unintentded implications of the latter.  Bring more than a syntactic misstep unless you're just trolling.

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Nov 2, 2011 4:53 AM DrGeneNelson DrGeneNelson  says:

The H-1B Visa law was designed by industry lobbyists like Harris Miller to facilitate employer access to essentially indentured high-skill labor within the U.S. borders. Nobel Economics Laureate Milton Friedman called H-1B a "government subsidy" program in a 2002 Computerworld article. www.computerworld.com/s/article/72848/H_1B_Is_Just_Another_Gov_t._Subsidy

Then Commerce Minister of India Kamal Nath called the H-1B Visa the "outsourcing visa" in a 15 April 2007 New York Times article. www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/business/yourmoney/15view.html

Given the bloated size of the H-1B Visa program, as documented in my 2007 article, "The Greedy Gates Immigration Gambit" tinyurl.com/37l8ry ; the result is that since 1990, millions of U.S. workers have been displaced by this controversial work visa program.

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Nov 2, 2011 6:00 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to DrGeneNelson

And don't anyone forget the day that Alan Greenspan tipped the hand of the powers-that-be and revealed the real reason for having such a strangely gigantic guestworker visa program:

www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/03/14/greenspan_let_more_skilled_immigrants_in/

My worry is about other "ridiculous claims" that go unchallenged, such as the notion of any sort of talent or skilled worker shortage, or the idea that there is something wrong with American workers and American STEM grads. Those claims have caused real damage to the lives of Americans: breadwinners, students, entire families. Those claims meet, in many cases, the legal standard of defamation.

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Nov 2, 2011 7:37 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to John80224

>> Bring more than a syntactic misstep unless you're just trolling. <<

That is part of Don's problem being "flying off the handle" by just stating alleged facts with phrases such as "irresponsible" when it turns out that in the end that it really was "responsible".

Not picking on Don but many bloggers just go out and rambling with stuff that can't be backed up with hard cold facts and when they get called out on it then just ignore those that put up the goods and move on to another post.

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Nov 2, 2011 9:24 AM EngiNERD EngiNERD  says:

I  watched  the CNN program "Your Money," which is hosted by CNN's Ali Velshi   featuring   Vivek Wadhwa and Ron Hira.

Hira  did  a good  noting the  displacement of American workers,    but he  missed  a  big     oportunity  in his failure to  reference the  infamous  Cohen- Grisby  video.

For those of  you  unfamilar with this  video.

"The goal is NOT to Find and American worker!"

www.youtube.com/programmersguild

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx--jNQYNgA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2IQ4XFNyiU

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqGBIHmv7jo

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsp2V3ifZjM

www.unitedprofessionals.org/2007/06/20/our-goal-is-clearly-not-to-find-a-qualified-and-interested-us-worker/

www.aea.org/employment.htm

www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Law-Firms-Video-a-Blatant-Disregard-for-American-Workers/

www.creators.com/opinion/paul-craig-roberts/self-serving-lies-destroyed-the-american-dream.html

www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/lou-dobbs-on-worker-displacement/2dfb0ef98820747c150b2dfb0ef98820747c150b-199339606856?q=cohen%20%20grigsby&;FROM=LKVR5&GT1=LKVR5&FORM=LKVR12

Glenn Beck -- Cohen&Grigsby seminar 6/26/2007

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqGBIHmv7jo

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Nov 2, 2011 10:42 AM Richard Richard  says:

If the situation is the same as in the UK, the problem seems more sending the tech jobs overseas, where wages (and conditions) are cheaper, rather than companies prioritising non-national workers.

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Nov 2, 2011 11:02 AM Rich Heyne Rich Heyne  says:

Irresponsible Claim? Really!

So you were looking for evidence of Policy.

Well, If it walk like a Duck, talks like a duck, it's a Duck!

Unless you work for HR in any company, its going to be very hard to get.

But that does not mean, that is not the process, does it?

200 years ago, many in the US did not have a Policy to bring in Slaves from Africa, but we had slavery right. And so many in the US Benefited from Slavery did they not. Sure they did. 

So many in the US don't have written policy that they will only hire illegal aliens, yet that's all they do hire. Am i missing something.

Ever since the 1990's, millions and millions of American have been laid-off, forced to train, then replaced by their H-1B/L1, replacement.

So because you don't see a "Hard Copy" written policy, it's not happening? Dahh..

Remember this:

"Our goal is clearly NOT TO FIND a qualified and interested U.S. worker."

The most infamous quote by immigration lawyer Larry Lebowitz during the Cohen & Grigsby seminar on employment visas, May 15th, 2007 in Pittsburgh. Lebowitz coached immigration attorneys and employers how to avoid hiring U.S. workers in order to hire foreign workers on green cards.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR1Jke2NWTA&;feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

How about this:

Indians involved in major US H-1B visa racket

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/US/Indians-involved-in-major-US-H-1B-visa-racket/articleshow/4124465.cms

And how about this:

Pfizer Forcing U.S. Citizens to Train H-1B Guest Worker Replacements Before Being Fired

www.economicpopulist.org/content/pfizer-forcing-us-citizens-train-h-1b-guest-worker-replacements-being-fired

Multinationals Dump U.S. Workers for Foreign Labor

www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/05/09/Multinationals-Dump-US-Workers-for-Foreign-Labor.aspx#page1

And how about this by YOU Don!:

IBM Global Services Reportedly Cited for Visa Fraud in India

www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/tennant/ibm-global-services-reportedly-cited-for-visa-fraud-in-india/?cs=46678#comment-46716

I could go on, but you get the point, we don't always the exact proof or proof of policy, yet we do have a crime and much of the evidence in millions, but you want the policy in hard copy.

good luck with that. 

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Nov 2, 2011 11:05 AM sanych sanych  says:

In early 2006 BofA announced "People Strategy". 

It was popularized by its CTO Barbara Desoer in many meetings and the management had to conduct skip level meeting to "explain" the new policy to the peons.

This new company policy was to move ALL technology jobs out of the United States.  Desoer explained that the declining enrollment for CS degrees by the US residents warrants looking for the labor pool elsewhere.  Any mention of the catch-22 aspect of this issue - the declining hiring of American workers by employers like BofA contributing to the lack of interest in CS careers - was regarded as a violation of BofA personnel code of conduct - "disagreeing with team(management) decision once it is made".

The US techies were told that they will all become "business analysts".

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Nov 2, 2011 11:14 AM Rich Heyne Rich Heyne  says:

Irresponsible Claim? Really Don!

So you were looking for evidence of Policy.

Well, If it walk like a Duck, talks like a duck, it's a Duck!

Unless you work for HR in any company, its going to be very hard to get.

But that does not mean, that is not the process, does it?

200 years ago, many in the US did not have a Policy to bring in Slaves from Africa, but we had slavery right. And so many in the US Benefited from Slavery did they not. Sure they did. 

So many in the US don't have written policy that they will only hire illegal aliens, yet that's all they do hire. Am i missing something.

Ever since the 1990's, millions and millions of American have been laid-off, forced to train, then replaced by their H-1B/L1, replacement.

So because you don't see a "Hard Copy" written policy, it's not happening? Dahh..

Remember this:

"Our goal is clearly NOT TO FIND a qualified and interested U.S. worker."

The most infamous quote by immigration lawyer Larry Lebowitz during the Cohen & Grigsby seminar on employment visas, May 15th, 2007 in Pittsburgh. Lebowitz coached immigration attorneys and employers how to avoid hiring U.S. workers in order to hire foreign workers on green cards.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR1Jke2NWTA&;feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

How about this:

Indians involved in major US H-1B visa racket

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/US/Indians-involved-in-major-US-H-1B-visa-racket/articleshow/4124465.cms

And how about this:

Pfizer Forcing U.S. Citizens to Train H-1B Guest Worker Replacements Before Being Fired

www.economicpopulist.org/content/pfizer-forcing-us-citizens-train-h-1b-guest-worker-replacements-being-fired

Multinationals Dump U.S. Workers for Foreign Labor

www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/05/09/Multinationals-Dump-US-Workers-for-Foreign-Labor.aspx#page1

And how about this by YOU Don!:

IBM Global Services Reportedly Cited for Visa Fraud in India

www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/tennant/ibm-global-services-reportedly-cited-for-visa-fraud-in-india/?cs=46678#comment-46716

I could go on, but you get the point, we don't always the exact proof or proof of policy, yet we do have a crime and much of the evidence in millions, but you want the policy in hard copy. Good luck with that. 

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Nov 2, 2011 11:38 AM sanych sanych  says: in response to sanych

I should rephrase my last sentence.

The US techies were told that there was an "opportunity" to become business analysts, and that, as jobs move elsewhere, there will be a limited number of jobs available even on the "business" side.  India was mentioned almost exclusively, Paraguay/Uruguay as a potential for a support center since the countries are in the same timezone as the US.

Technology jobs were described as "simple", "repetitive", "mundane", while the business jobs were described as the next step up.

One senior executive was asked what would she tell her child if the child wants to get into computer career as the companies move jobs out of the country.  Her reply was that her child has "artistic" inclinations and wants to dance.

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Nov 2, 2011 12:51 PM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to sanych

I don't expect a response from Don but a new article.

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Nov 3, 2011 2:11 AM DrGeneNelson DrGeneNelson  says: in response to Dolores

What an incredible deception from Alan Greenspan in 2007. His objective of depressing the wages of technology workers by importing even more technology workers would only further widen the wage gap between the banker elites (such as Greenspan) and the technology professionals.

In fact, the importation of millions of technology professionals since 1976  via an "alphabet soup" of work visa programs, including H-1 and H-1B, is one of the reasons why income inequality has risen.

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Nov 3, 2011 2:29 AM DrGeneNelson DrGeneNelson  says:

The H-1B Visa law was designed by industry lobbyists like Harris Miller to facilitate employer access to essentially indentured high-skill labor within the U.S. borders. Nobel Economics Laureate Milton Friedman called H-1B a "government subsidy" program in a 2002 Computerworld article. www.computerworld.com/s/article/72848/H_1B_Is_Just_Another_Gov_t._Subsidy

Then Commerce Minister of India Kamal Nath called the H-1B Visa the "outsourcing visa" in a 15 April 2007 New York Times article. www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/business/yourmoney/15view.html

Given the bloated size of the H-1B Visa program, as documented in my 2007 article, "The Greedy Gates Immigration Gambit" tinyurl.com/37l8ry ; the result is that since 1990, millions of U.S. workers have been displaced by this controversial work visa program.

In a 14 March 2007 Boston Globe article, www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/03/14/greenspan_let_more_skilled_immigrants_in/ former Federal Reserve Bank Chairman Alan Greenspan advocates for more skilled foreign workers to depress wages. Greenspan falsely claims this will reduce income inequality. In reality, it will further widen the gulf between the wages of the banker class (like Greenspan) and the wages of skilled professionals.

Here is an excellent 25 October 2011 New York Times article on the massive dimensions of income inequality. www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/us/politics/top-earners-doubled-share-of-nations-income-cbo-says.html ;

Top Earners Doubled Share of Nation's Income, Study Finds

By ROBERT PEAR

Be sure to look at the accompanying graphic. Note the caption.

"The top 1 percent of American earners controls as much of the nation's total income as it did on the eve of the Great Depression. Now, however, their money comes from skyrocketing paychecks more than unearned income, as it did in 1928."

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Nov 10, 2011 5:03 AM SocialCritic SocialCritic  says:

Hira clearly committed a debating error. Still, his detractors' arguments come off more as red herrings than valid rationals. Whether or not companies have formalized policies about lowering costs through H-1B workers is not the point. We can see that the effect is very real whether or not the cause has been formally sanctioned by US corporations or not. Moreover, some of our most influential leaders are on record --- from Bill Gates to Susan Hockfield, of MIT --- calling for STEM in-sourcing and immigration reform.

The irony is that the US has the finest higher ed system in the world. Many foreign nationals come here for an education. Therefore, it is dubious that we need to solicit overseas talent when we could simply invite such students to take up permanent citizenship and residence in the US. To continue to support temporary visa programs that further the in-sourcing phenomena is another thing entirely. I read a study in which it was found that such workers do, in fact, earn at least 20 percent less than a similarly qualified US counterpart.

In a recent news article I read where a US-born civil engineer who had graduated college over a year ago had joined the Occupy Wall Street movement because he was unable to find work. Several years beforehand, a Minnesota bridge crashed to the ground prompting a nationwide but short-lived focus on the crumbling state of our infrastructure. The American society of civil engineers gave our nation's 50-100-year-old sewage, highway and bridge infrastructure a "D". And yet here we are some four years into the economic downturn and people who have been told they are "in demand" aren't able to find work. These "people" are not whiny, unqualified Americans. Some of them have brought home high-tech skills from the battlefields in Iraq and Afghanistan. In my community alone, a job fair aimed at veterans attracted 2,000 unemployed. They don't need our excuses. Our college grads don't need our platitudes.

The STEM situation is 1) a funding problem --- no money, no will, no jobs, and 2) a talent drain when companies look to far-flung parts of the world on the basis that Americans are lesser qualified. Therein lies your problem. In a down economy H-1B visas are not kosher. If the new economy is proving difficult to fill with qualified applicants, corporations should reinvest in job training. Going offshore for talent depletes the incentive for US corporations to function as community members willing to invest in the next generation of the US workforce. Never have we lived at a time when apprenticeship was so underrated and corporate complaining so predictable. There is a corollary between the loss of entry-level positions --- because corporations only want to recruit from without as opposed to advance from within their own ranks and/or borders --- and our so-called talent shortage. Let's look at first things first and when we've fixed our "gap thinking" we can re-evaluate whether the H-1B visa program is necessary after all.

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