Infosys Briefed B-1 Visa Holders on How to Deceive U.S. Immigration Officials

Don Tennant

The former Infosys manager from India who detailed systematic discrimination against American college recruits has provided a compelling behind-the-scenes account of the institutionalized nature of the B-1 visa fraud and deceptive practices documented by Infosys employee and whistleblower Jay Palmer.

 

The former manager, who is speaking to me on condition of anonymity, was employed by Infosys from 2000 to 2010, and worked in the United States on an H-1B visa for six years (see yesterday's post, "Former Infosys Manager from India Cites Discrimination Against Americans"). He corroborated information that Palmer and his attorney, Kenny Mendelsohn, have turned over to federal authorities conducting the criminal investigation of Infosys, including information about the manner in which Infosys briefs B-1 visa holders on how to deceive U.S. immigration officials:

Back in Bangalore they have an elaborate immigration department-obviously they have a lot of people traveling, the majority of whom travel to the United States. I would say the number of B-1 visas that they use is probably a substantial number, but not a large percentage compared to H-1s and L-1s. What they do for people who are traveling on B-1 visas, in Bangalore and other Infosys offices in India, they would have a briefing session where they would basically tell you very clearly that a B-1 visa is only intended for sales professionals to attend meetings and things like that, and you can't actually be working. So what you need to do when you reach the United States is you need to lie to the official at the airport about the purpose of your visit. You can't tell them that you're there to work or to do any kind of programming or anything like that. They even advise you not to take any kind of programming books in your bags, just in case you're searched. You can't tell them you're there for a sales meeting when your bag is packed with six books on Java.

The former manager said there are plenty of Infosys employees in India who are willing to come to the United States on a B-1 visa to work, even though they're fully aware it's illegal to do so. The lure, he said, is simple. It's all about the money:

Most people back in India would do absolutely anything to come to the United States, just for the money. People at that level have two options. Option A is you are given $145 a day. For the first $100 you would have to produce receipts, but you wouldn't have to produce receipts for the remaining $45. Option B is $90 a day, no questions asked, no receipts required. And during that time, they continue to draw whatever salary they were getting in India. If a junior analyst or programmer gets the opportunity to be in the United States for three months, and takes Option B, that's $90 a day for 90 days, or $8,100. That's an interesting amount of money for these guys. Infosys doesn't have to force people in India to come to the United States. They have more people than they need who would come to the United States, who would do that-that's a good amount of money.

The former manager said he has read a lot about the spartan living conditions of Infosys B-1 workers here, and he characterized that as a choice that they willingly make:

Some people are just OK with that. They want to do it because they want to save money. It's the state of the Indian economy, it's the willingness of people to come over, not having any regard for U.S. law. It's a huge combination of all of these factors working together.

The former manager started working for Infosys in Bangalore right out of college, and said he learned early on that all was considered fair when it came to the United States:

To be honest with you, looking at the companies based out of India, Infosys is probably one of the best places to start working. They do a lot of good things. But when it comes to the United States, they behave a little differently. The general attitude I have seen there is they don't really care if they do something wrong that hurts the U.S. economy or people in the United States. For them, as long as they're doing something that brings in money to India, and helps people in India to earn money, somehow they think everything's fair as long as that's done.


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May 2, 2012 1:13 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to jobs4us

Microsoft's shifty behavior is clearly exposed in this article from 2010 where what they say is clearly contradicted by what Infosys says.

Microsoft says:

"Nothing is changing as far as allocation of what Microsoft does internally and what is outsourced."

Infosys says

"More than 90 percent of this work is new business for Infosys"

More here:



Microsoft downplays Infosys IT outsourcing deal

www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-downplays-infosys-it-outsourcing-deal/5891

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May 2, 2012 1:41 AM DK Bose' Father DK Bose' Father  says: in response to D.K.Bose

Read the article with open mind. Whatever Infy manager is saying is common practise and nothing new for anyone who has worked with Infosys. Well Infosys decit and corrupt practises are beyond imagination of people in not only in US but for other Indian employees in competing companies as well.

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May 2, 2012 4:30 AM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

Yup. Infy prime contractor for "contingent staffing" for Microsoft and required all staffing companies to submit resumes and other personal data to Infosys for "consideration". These companies also required applicants submit releases that allow the contractor to share any and all personal and financial information with 3rd parties.  No signed release, no job.

Don't know about anyone else but I sure did not want my personal information available to unknown people for unknown reasons.  I asked the employment agency how my privacy would be protected - no answer.

I'm willing to be this shell game was set up to reverse engineer resumes for INFY staff and exclude all qualified Americans.  Hope the Feds look into this scheme.

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May 2, 2012 6:24 AM Ananomus Ananomus  says: in response to D.K.Bose

Mr. Bose,

Are you an advertise for Infosys?

Each and every word in this article is correct. I can say this because I

Still an employee in Infosys since more than 6 years.

Why am I then exposing my own employer. ? Simple. I m not happy with

Their recent decisions.

One thing to note here is what infosys is doing is nothing

  I have seen personally L&T Ingotech doing the same thing.

I have heard from friends that their computer, top 5 Indian IT Companion,

are doing exactly same buy at a much much larger label than Infosys.

So in that regard Infosys is still the best one in following USA immegation laws.

By the ways I m in usa since more than 2 years via Infosys

bit on a work visa

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May 2, 2012 6:45 AM Da Truth Da Truth  says: in response to Ananomus

1. Infosys Senior HR came from Bangalore and held meetings in US advising managers "How to avoid overtime claims by employees" and "How not to give overtime" even if an employee files according to California Law. These happened after Jack Palmer's lawsuit which just goes to show how brazen and the company will continue to violate American Law unless kicked out or kicked till it hurts sore.

2. This company is fraudeulent, kick em out of American soil.

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May 2, 2012 8:03 AM DrGeneNelson DrGeneNelson  says: in response to DrGeneNelson

A website glitch has been resolved at H1Bistro dot com. Infosys actually obtained authority to hire 474,130 H-1B Visa holders between 2001-2012. The average wage was $56,910.54 and the total wages for certified job openings are in excess of $26 billion. To see the results, please select all years and all states for the employer name "Infosys." Select 200 results per page and sort by Number of Jobs, descending. 25,000 LCAs are now visible per query.

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May 2, 2012 9:46 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

But when it comes to the United States, they behave a little differently. The general attitude I have seen there is they don't really care if they do something wrong that hurts the U.S. economy or people in the United States.

That there summarizes the philosophy that Infosys et al have followed for the last 10+ years. The deduction from this is they love American money but dislike Americans.

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May 2, 2012 10:31 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to DrGeneNelson

Gene - "American Infosys Inc", "B2B Infosys", "KPIT Infosystems, Inc"  - these are not related to the Infosys which is being discussed here. From that search, you will need to further filter out the companies. The following are the ones that you need to consider for your counts - a) INFOSYS BPO LTD b)  INFOSYS TECHNOLOGIES LIMITED  c) INFOSYS CONSULTING, INC d) INFOSYS LIMITED

Infosys Limited is what the company is known now as. So all new entries will be under this name. But still the number will be huge. But I dont think it will be 400k. Given that for H1B, they have to renew the visa every 2 years, the actual number of persons employed will be bit lesser than what the query returns.

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May 2, 2012 10:46 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to kiprn

Add the employer zip code 75024 and keep name as Infosys, it will give you the correct numbers. Around 9.9K LCAs filed for ~215K certified job openings. So if you consider that every 3 years, the LCAs are renewed, you are probably looking at much lesser number of workers employed. Also not all job openings are filled by foreign workers as per the site. But for Infosys that may not be applicable.

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May 2, 2012 11:01 AM D.K.Bose D.K.Bose  says:

I think for any big company there will be 100s of such ex and current employees who wanted to vent out their frustration. These type of stories can be easily made with little knowledge about the process. Interestingly this guy who claims to have worked with Infosys for 10 years and 6 out of them in the US, this means in all possible scenario he has worked less than 4 years at Infosys's India office. I dont believe someone with that little exp that too just after passing engg college will have any exposure to immigration process of a company. To me this is all cooked up stories to vent out frustration of may be not getting GC filed by the employer and had to return after 6 years. Anyways when we talk about any case in court it should be supported with facts and not by individual's understanding.

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May 2, 2012 11:49 AM DrGeneNelson DrGeneNelson  says:

To rebut the claims that Infosys does not understand how to "game" the H-1B Visa program, it is instructive to use the public disclosure website H1Bistro dot com with the employer name "Infosys" for all states, all years. I suggest 200 listings per page, with a descending sort by number of jobs. You will learn in those thousand listings that Infosys uses many different employer names such as "Infosys Cube," "Infosys Limited," and "American Infosys."  They have filed 19,787 Labor Condition Applications (LCAs), with well over 100 applications for 25 or more professionals per LCA. The typical wage is just slightly above $60,000, which facilitates Infosys's use of the special annual allocation for 20,000 additional H-1Bs in the "Masters or above - or pays more than $60,000 annually" category.  The bottom line is that the careers of tens of thousands of technology careers of Americans have been destroyed by the actions of Infosys.

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May 2, 2012 12:00 PM Jobs4US Jobs4US  says:

Knowledge of a felony and doing nothing about it is a felony.  Willful violation of a felony is a felony.   Infosys and its minions of alphabet soup visa workers intentionally and knowingly violated US law.  Infosys, its executives, and its pliant, willful visa staff must be held accountable and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  

What about Infosys clients?  Certainly their HR Departments must conduct background and security checks on temporary visa workers working on their premises. And, don't those checks include verifying legal eligibility to work in the USA (say e-verify)?  Again, knowledge of a felony and failing to report it is also a felony.  

You can fool / payoff  most politicians all of the time, but you cannot brazenly violate US law and expect to get away with it all of the time.

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May 2, 2012 12:16 PM Barbara Griffith Barbara Griffith  says: in response to DrGeneNelson

That H-1B database is shocking in so many ways. Many of the jobs involve common skill sets, and I know Americans who could do those jobs and would love to have them. Every H-1B issued is a career theft from an American, especially in these hard economic times. Only a tiny percentage of the H-1B jobs listed involved esoteric or rare skills.

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May 2, 2012 12:33 PM BSS BSS  says:

Why do people say that Infosys has cut American jobs...How many Americans are being employed by Microsoft, Oracle, Dell, Apple, HP, IBM etc.etc.....All of these have set up their centers in low cost countries (India, China)....Do you sincerely think that banning Infosys will reduce the unemployment rate in USA....Think again....Infy is atleast true to its countrymen (Indians)....But what about us....we have  been betrayed by our own corporations.

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May 2, 2012 12:52 PM jobs4us jobs4us  says: in response to BSS

You're right.   Infosys got caught.  Hence, my question about Infosys clients who hired these illegal workers.

I know from first hand experience that companies replace American employees with temporary visa workers from other countries.  Since Microsoft and Jack Abramoff wrote the H-1b laws,  they know  the loopholes and where they can and cannot cross the line. 

It's remarkable how the "big lie" - we can't find American talent, has invaded the corporate and political hierarchy.  Sad, but it works (did for the Germans in WWII) and repeating it over and over eventually people think its true. 

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May 3, 2012 1:40 AM Chris Chris  says:

Accept the reality. US has lost the edge and the Americans have become incompetent. You make a living out of this trash talk. Better do something useful. Now American expats are queuing up for Indian visa. Think why that is happening

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May 3, 2012 1:46 AM Ram Ram  says:

I work at Infosys and frankly have gone to US 3 times. Have undergone the briefings. No manager in delivery or HR ever asked me to decieve anything. There might be few people doing that and those are everywhere. I have seen what people do in US for SOX evidence. So Mr manager dont play smart guy. The truth will come out. It is shocking that you worked till 2010 and saying this. In last 5 years whenever we enquired of B1 possibility the Infosys visa department told a strict no. So dont know which B1 are you talking about.

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May 3, 2012 1:52 AM Infy US Exploiter (formerly Batman) Infy US Exploiter (formerly Batman)  says: in response to Chris

>>Now American expats are queuing up for Indian visa. <<

Seriously?

Seriously?

SeriouHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA this was the biggest joke of the year HAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAAH.... I can't stop. I can't I can't I can't I HAHAAHAHAHA...okay, okay, I'll control. I'll control I'll HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA oh wait wait I won't laugHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hhoooo hhahahahahahHAHAAHAHAHAHAhoooo HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAA

stop stop stop Batman control yourself. CONTROL!

okay okay, I'll control I'll controoooooolllalaahahahahaaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

Thanks Chris... I had the best laugh today!

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May 3, 2012 2:19 AM Wisey Wisey  says:

Guess what... you dont understand how the economics work...give something to take something.... This is true everywhere and applies to USA as well. Americans  benefits by outsourcing jobs to low cost manufacturing  countries and in return these labor intensive countries get a boost in their economy.  This is what you call 'World Trade'.

This is not a perfect world where you expect everything to be perfect. Things get perfect overtime.. and we should all work for a better tomorrow than blaming around..

By the way, H1B programme does not demand high skills. Companies like Infy need people who can work with their offshore counterparts effectively. For that you can put an 'American Citizen' in charge of 'Indian Offshore' . It simply does'nt work.

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May 3, 2012 2:42 AM wisey wisey  says: in response to Manish

Well said. I guess not every one understand how much other countries lose when their talent is drained to developed countries.

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May 3, 2012 2:57 AM Barbara Griffith Barbara Griffith  says: in response to wisey

I have always maintained that India has crushing problems, and they need their manpower and brainpower at home, solving those problems, not coming here to get rich quick.

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May 3, 2012 5:53 AM Manish Manish  says:

Pretty interesting comments. Ex-infoscions are doing nothing than just venting out their frustration for some reason or the other similar to what 'Why I left Goldman Sachs' blogs a few days back.

I have worked in Infosys for quite some time, though it never filed a B-1 or H-1 for me. But I still can't believe that Infosys doesn't have any regards for US laws. There could be a few aberrations but those are everywhere.

Those who are cribbing about loss of technology jobs in the US, Its a big thing. There could be millions in the world who have lost jobs because of technology/tools (Weapons too for that matter) developed in USA. It all seems rosy when you are getting everything and you'll advocate for things that benefits you. That what US and Europe hoped for when they were advocating for the world to become a 'Global village'. Now US/Europe is getting beaten is the game they themselves started and thats why this much noise about loss of jobs and other things.

US gave capitalism to the world whose most basic tenet has been survival of the fittest. Till the time US thought it was fittest it advocated for all the things that gave it the advantage. Now that those things are turning disadvantageous we are hearing all the noise around US job and livelihood loss. People who have caluculated the amount that Infosys took away from US, can they calculate the amount whole of the world has contributed to US economy?

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May 3, 2012 6:21 AM Elvis Elvis  says: in response to Manish

India's superior "fitness" is based on vile labor practices, overpopulation, and the vestiges of the caste system. Those of us who have worked with Indians know the truth about how they are "winning." Pretty much everything they touch withers. They are simply pumping as much money out of America as they can, as fast as they can.

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May 3, 2012 7:17 AM Manish Manish  says: in response to Elvis

I accept India is overpopulated, vile labor practices are rampant, caste system exists but how does this affect the US? If US boats of a superior work culture, I don't think that same culture would have been in place on day one. Cultures evolve and sooner or later it will get better in India. But these are not the core issues here and none of these is causing hardship you US guys.

In fact what you are not able to digest is the fact that an India can write as better code as an american can, an Indian can work as efficiently as an American can, an Indian can create/maintain as good or even better IT systems as any other guy on the whole Earth will. Of course at much lower costs. This is the reason why Indians are in demand.  I feel sad that rather than admitting and appreciating the competence of Indian programmers, you are simply trying to discount everything as if everything an Indian has achieved in US has been because of some kind of fraud, bad practices or any other damn thing that comes to your mind.

I am not saying that there haven't been any visa frauds but its also not that only fraud happens when an Indian is involved. Appreciate something which is good and also have the courage to accept that somewhere somebody might be much better at doing things you are currently doing. When you'll understand this, one or two visa frauds won't matter much. Those who have done so will anyways be caught and punished.

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May 3, 2012 7:44 AM Elvis Elvis  says: in response to Manish

It's not one or two visa frauds. It's entire business model frauds, from the top down. By some counts, 3-4 million IT jobs that pertain to American IT work are now cordoned off from American employees. America invented the modern IT profession. The very definition of fraud includes not playing fair, and India is the poster child for this both at home and abroad. India is not better, just cheaper. They throw bodies at a problem, which overpopulation encourages. America doesn't have enough jobs to satisfy India, so we need to stop trying and save our own skins while we still can. 

What Don has discovered about the perfidy and underhandedness of Infosys is something that we American IT folks have been seeing all over globalized IT for over 10 years now. Look at the job Satyam and Wipro did at the World Bank - I mean the quality of their support work, not the financial stuff that came out later. But that's typical. IBM is losing contracts because they are replacing their American workers with you-know-who. But the top brass doesn't care (read Cringely to see why).

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May 3, 2012 8:41 AM jimmy jimmy  says:

Hi Mr  Don Tennant  I would like to thank you for the efforts you have made in publishing this article. I am hoping the same best work from you in the future as well.This blog is very helpful for readers really its nice post on Infosys Briefed B-1 Visa Holders on How to Deceive U.S. Immigration  Thanks.

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May 3, 2012 8:49 AM Shah Shah  says:

The B1 visa is definitely the wrong route. The rules are very specific on the matter. Infosys behavior cannot be justified. Having said that, on the other hand companies which are also doing the right thing by applying for H1B or L1 visas are still getting denied.  Watch this short drama on a denial of L1 visa resulting into a nightmare for an American company.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-2kVk_TssI

Bottom line the system needs to be fixed to protect both American and foreign workers.

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May 3, 2012 8:53 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to Da Truth

Smaller the base, faster is the growth. Same was applicable to Infosys as well 6-8 years back. But once it became bigger, obviously its growth also started to limit. Other companies have survived much bigger and worse scams than this. So people thinking that this company will go down overnight because of this investigations, its just wishful thinking and nothing else. Even if they are fined heavily, it should be okay. They will learn their lesson and try to set things properly. At least, it will set an example for other IT companies and also make the American clients accountable. Most importantly, it will set an example for the whistle blowers. But the investigation should not stop here. If that happens, such errors or intentional frauds will never get investigated. But I still believe Infosys will get fined more for their i-9 part and not on the B1 part of the feds investigation.

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May 3, 2012 9:05 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to Da Truth

@Da Truth, just like how the "facts" that you talking about is based on Palmers individual experience with few employees, Ram is talking about his individual experience with the company. Its a company with bloody 150,000 employees working across 10-12 places in India. So obviously, if its not a company policy, then people would have different experience in such cases.

Many people will leave the company not because the company is undergoing investigation, but because they did not get a raise this summer. Such people will not make a difference to the future of the company as there will be people from other companies following the same approach.

If the judge rules that Infosys had a policy to misuse B1, then it should the policy makers who should pay the price apart from the fine because they knowingly committed the fraud. Just fining the company will not be sufficient to clean it up.

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May 3, 2012 9:08 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Shah

That video was worse than most morning soap operas in its quality and level of acting. And completely bogus in its claims. An immigration law firm concerned about the economy and welfare of American citizens ? Give me a break. They have a vested interest and agenda.

Compare that with the other video on youtube of the attorney blatantly discussing the means to circumvent hiring American citizens. Now wasn't acting , That was the reality and the cold facts. The actor , and I use the term very loosely for all of them in that video, should try a different line of work. I recommend used car salesman.

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May 3, 2012 9:18 AM mixus mixus  says: in response to Wisey

USA is country of law, Do not get job fraudelently, every one knows certificate is fake, Resume is fake, People working on B1 visa is fake, and i am not the judge, Fed is going to prove that. You can not cheat US law on US soil. I learn one best thing hard work and honesty is always works on long run. World trade is diffrent thing and fraud is diffrent thing. Americans are loosing job ,even Indian born USa is in same boat.

Indian american www.zazona.com/shameh1b/Library/Legal/Shah_vs_Wilco.htm

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May 3, 2012 10:17 AM Truth Man Truth Man  says: in response to D.K.Bose

Quite agree with you. In "condition of anonymity" and providing loose words and then claiming worked for 10 years is all BS. I have been in multiple consulting firms and quite aware that the Infosys GC process is clear that only high performance professionals will be considered and for particular roles unlike many other Indian companies who just do it for anyone which is more damaging to the US jobs. If feds instead of looking at one company starts to investigate all these companies such as Cognizant, Tata Consultancy and Wipro they will get far more meat than Infosys.

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May 3, 2012 10:39 AM EngiNERD EngiNERD  says:

Senator  Grassley  weighs in on the  B-1.   H-1B   issue  (again)

Grassley Concerned that Fraudulent Practices May be Used to Circumvent Protections of H-1B Visa

www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=40484

  and what   other Congressman/Senators  are  confronting the problems  with the temporary  visa programs.

Seems to me   most are   silent,   indifferent to the plight of the American  (tech/engineer)  worker.

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May 3, 2012 11:25 AM Alexa Graygoar Alexa Graygoar  says:

Giiiirrrrlll, please. Someone tell me why Floor Weekly Magazine does not yet have an article on how to get unbanned from wikipedia?

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May 3, 2012 11:52 AM Da Truth Da Truth  says: in response to Ram

Are you kidding or lying? There is a criminal Federal investigation ongoing with open facts. Else do you think Infy will ever put it as a risk in their earnings statements. We all know they will get fined - how big and will it be significant is the question.

If you are still working there, get out sooner than later...

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May 3, 2012 11:58 AM Da Truth Da Truth  says: in response to Da Truth

blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2012/05/03/for-indian-it-the-smaller-the-better/?mod=google_news_blog

Looks like smaller firms doing better, so all here working for Infy, you have lot of choice until those get some whistle blowers

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May 3, 2012 12:00 PM Insider Insider  says: in response to Truth Man

this is incorrect. Beyond a particular level and people in 5th year of their stay get it easily unless and untill their boss is not happy with them. It is more on the basis of personal equation with their booses who gives their nomination.

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May 3, 2012 12:07 PM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

I wonder if there has been a spike in the purchases of industrial strength  paper shredders and hard disk wiping utilities by outsourcing companies ever since this case hit the media.

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May 3, 2012 12:11 PM MNY MNY  says: in response to Manish

Your last statement is relevant - Those who have done so will anyways be caught and punished.

And this is precisely what the Infosys B1 visa case is all about

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May 4, 2012 8:46 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Da Truth

Infosys Senior HR came from Bangalore and held meetings in US advising senior management "How to avoid overtime claims by employees" and "How not to give overtime" even if an employee files according to California Law.

If someone has a video clip of this, it should be posted online.

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May 4, 2012 12:10 PM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Shah

>>  Having said that, on the other hand companies which are also doing the right thing by applying for H1B or L1 visas are still getting denied. <<'

Tough Luck.

We have enough unemployed Americans and don't need more H1Bs.

>>   Watch this short drama on a denial of L1 visa resulting into a nightmare for an American company. <<

What is good for your company may or may not be good for the US. IT is just labor like flipping a McDonalds cheeseburger.  If you can't get someone to flip your burger for $8 an hour then you pay more money or don't do the job.

Sorry, America is not going to be saved by "cloud computing", "social media", or other such "nonsense".  If America is reduced to social media, web sites, cloud computing then it is all over.

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May 4, 2012 12:20 PM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Shah

After viewing the video, the company should be out of business.  In the REAL WORLD, the company has an attorney that SPECIALIZES in immigration law and if your company relies on ONE individual then you have other issues outside of immigration law. 

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May 4, 2012 12:21 PM Da Truth Da Truth  says: in response to kiprn

1. True about growth, was just telling folks that there are other options than working at a pathetic firm with poor management and fraudulent policies.

2. Fines for I-9, Hopefully some period banishing visas or limiting to very few.

3. No they won't learn, they'll just twist laws again. Because yes I have worked there and after the incident ...Infosys Senior HR came from Bangalore and held meetings in US advising senior management  "How to avoid overtime claims by employees" and "How not to give overtime" even if an employee files according to California Law. These happened after Jack Palmer's lawsuit which just goes to show how brazen and the company will continue to violate American Law unless kicked out or kicked till it hurts sore.

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May 4, 2012 12:28 PM Da Truth Da Truth  says: in response to kiprn

None can predict the future or what it will be. As an American, I hope they are puncished heavily since they have abused Americans(called American's fools), mistreated PAlmer and other qualified Americans like third rate citizens, have the worst middle management (many of whom are not qualified and have not worked elsewhere).

Now to the attrition.

There are the good employees (hirable) who will switch soon. Those who stay will be 1. the laggards and 2. those who hope to ride the trough and rise. A smart one will leave to where there is more growth very soon.

If I was at Infy, I would be applying like crazy when IT is still hiring. Acc/CTS/IBM would be my choice... 

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May 4, 2012 12:45 PM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Da Truth

Proudly made in America by foreign workers.

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May 5, 2012 3:32 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says:

Congrats, Don. You have just managed to lower your standards to the bush league! I couldn't care less for Infosys but this "article" has no place in the most tripe of tabloids.

What happened to reporting on the basis of statistically significant facts? Are you so short on grey matter than some arbitrary guy's trash is the best you can rustle up?

I am from India and I will endorse that exaggeration is commonplace. Infosys is likely just a labor arbitrage outfit. But they almost certainly are too busy and have too little political savvy to go about destroying the US systematically. Kindly save such fantasy for your contribution to Captain America or some such comic series.

Ridiculous!

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May 5, 2012 5:06 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Indian_H1B

You know the old saying.. "one person's arbitrary guy is another person's whistleblower". 2 Years ago people scoffed at Palmer's claims and that it would never go anywhere and no major media outlet would be interested...

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May 5, 2012 6:14 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to Indian_H1B

I've noticed over the last decade plus that whenever we get close to exposing the rottenness at the bottom of India, Inc.'s business plan, someone comes up with a variant of the "Look! Over there!" tactic to try and deflect us. It's either, "But what about those other x y zs?" or "That's nothing compared to abc." or else "You're exagerating the whole thing."

No, we are right. Too little political savvy? They've been lobbying our elected officials for over a decade. Around 2000, as we were heading into a dreadfull recession, the H-1B cap was raised to almost 200K and left there for three years! They got portability, they got the extra 20K, they got all kinds of concessions, AND they got a level of enforcement of the various visa terms - up until now - that would have made Rip Van Winkle look like the all-seeing eye. And they are still at it, trying to end the per-country quotas so that people from you-know-where will not only get the lion's share of the work visas, they will also get the lion's share of the green cards.

Too late. The damage done to America by impoverishing our middle class is now so obvious that it's an actual campaign issue. Ten years ago I had to explain what an H-1B or guestworker visa was, now everybody knows. Ten years ago, people just hoped to get other jobs to replace the ones that were taken from them. Now they know better. A good, smart parasite doesn't kill its host. Infosys & friends forgot that. Or more likely, didn't care.

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May 5, 2012 7:47 AM diane diane  says:

I agree to few points said above, but not most of them.

1. Visa misuse, - If infosys has misused the visa - it should be fined. No doubt about it.

2. Lazy fat ass - My fat ass is fine, and all men love fat ass. I will still not work extra for more money.

3. Palmer - jury will decide you are not the one to decide it!

4. indian IT helping USA - yes to some extent, but USA people should help their own country. even if I am not from USA but from Spain, I still think, let me resolve my issues. USA is a country formed by immigrants, and their is still enough place, but follow the rules.

5. We need to work harder - yes, We have to, nothing can replace that.

6. indian freedom - british were responsible. but heck we cant be held responsible. You can hold USA responsible for nuclear bomb. But thats it!

7. China - USA, even China should stop exporting their stuff to USA. China is biggest exporter to USA and not india. Even if the quality is low, they dont break rules!

Accepted jobs are not lost because of IT or indian firms, it is also lost due to many reasons. This just highlighted because indians are sitting targets - just because they oppose violence, and dont attack or are aggressive.

but we need to concentrate more on manufacturing things which low level peoples can work. Those who can earn money in IT are still earning and nobody is complaining. Only those who are not capable are. So we need to enable ourselves!

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May 5, 2012 8:13 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to diane

It is not true that American IT people have not been hurt. I run into ex-IT Americans all over the place. They are either working in much lower jobs than they are qualified for, or not working. While bringing in all this foreign "talent" (some is real, some fake), we have put our own talented American IT people out with the trash. Surely you've heard of all the companies where they brought in foreign workers, made the American workers train them, then fired the Americans? Somewhere between one million and 4 million American IT jobs are gone. They even advertise in India for common American IT jobs (like Windows support that is easy to hire here), where the job is located in some American city. We have thousands of people who can do most IT jobs in every major metropolitan area. But they are bringing in foreign workers instead. That aint right. We need to get our people back to work.

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May 5, 2012 11:06 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

And a bit of curious development. PR spin ?


Infosys stiffens whistleblower policy

Infosys, the country's second largest information technology services company, has strengthened the Whistleblower Policy it instituted in 2003, to enable any staffer to complain to the management about wrongdoing in or by company officials.


www.business-standard.com/india/news/infosys-stiffens-whistleblower-policy/473544/

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May 6, 2012 1:01 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

"In the amended policy, Infosys has said all suspected violations must be reported either to the immediate supervisor of the person making the complaint or the Global Head of Compliance, Immigration and Employees Matters, Nithyanandan Radhakrishnan, who is located in the US (any staffer, anywhere, can also tell him). Ot, it can be reported by sending an anonymous email to a designated address."

"Also, if an employee feels all these officials are involved in the suspected violations, he/she can write to the audit committee of Infosys' board of directors, at a given address. "Because you have several means of reporting, you need never report to someone you believe may be involved in the suspected violation or from whom you would fear retaliation," the revised policy says."

www.business-standard.com/india/news/infosys-stiffens-whistleblower-policy/473544/

This new "Whistleblower Policy" announcement is an attempt at damage control by Infosys. To all Infosys employees in the U.S.:

I strongly recommend that you completely bypass the Infosys "Whistleblower Policy" and report your complaints of criminal wrongdoings at Infosys directly to the U.S. Attorneys at the U.S. Department of Justice.

www.justice.gov/

There is no way to verify that any Infosys employee that you complain to is/is not involved in criminal activity, either directly or indirectly.

Instead of the shenanigans and schemes that Infosys is using, most reputable companies would have appointed an outside ombudsman (i.e., a former law enforcement official) to handle complaints and investigations of criminal activity (especially after Jay Palmer's complaints). Infosys wants to keep its investigations in-house to allow continued cover-ups and white-washes.

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May 6, 2012 1:14 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to IAmNumber813

If Infosys wanted to send a signal to workers that they can use the whistle-blower policy they could make Jay Palmer the poster-child by doing the following:

-Publicly apologize to Palmer.  Pay him for lost bonuses/wages and make him whole again, as if this never happened.

-Fire or reprimand those who threatened Palmer.

-Implement real policy changes that address the issues Palmer reported.

On one hand they are saying "we have a whistle-blower policy you can now trust" but on the other hand they still have an ongoing legal battle with Palmer that is a direct result of them not taking their whistle-blower policy seriously.

Unless they make things right with Palmer and any others they have wronged for blowing the whistle, their new policy is just empty words.  No employee in their right mind would trust Infosys to treat them fairly when they haven't even made things right with the others.

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May 6, 2012 2:18 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says: in response to R. Lawson

"Publicly apologize to Palmer."

Infosys should definitely apologize to Jay Palmer and settle the civil case. However, that would likely mean that one or more high-level Infosys employees would have to fall on their swords (i.e., spend some time in club fed) to make the federal criminal case(s) go away or lessen their impacts. I'm guessing that a "siege" and/or "cultural" us-versus-them mentality exists in some quarters of Infosys that prevents such an apology.

Infosys has probably also calculated that they have too many provable smoking guns (i.e., paying U.S.-based employees with bank debit cards) to throw more grease on the fire.

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May 6, 2012 2:20 AM diane diane  says: in response to Dolores

Dolores -

you need to understand few facts. If a person is working in an organisation for 10 years and doesn't even know what all components are part of architecture, the person doesn't deserve his job. I am at a position where I can take few decisions for my company. and I can tell you - IT firms - contractors charge way to high than a american, but still we have to look at them because our guys don't follow the commitments, lack at technical capability, are old and their learning curve is gone. I have seen a person who doesn't even know how to operate an excel! A person who requires 3 years to learn a thing is taken up by these folks within 3 months!

Jobs are gone - a plain simple fact. and we are to blame. But what is being done from your side? what is being done from american IT guy? what new he brings to the table, that will benefit the organisation? when i go out to recruit a person, I look out for local person first. I put 4 conditions which are very simple, but nobody is willing to work from home after 5 or put extra effort on weekends!

IT industry is big, same like auto industry.

FORD, GM all were doing good before honda toyota hyundai came. recession came, their sales dumped, jobs lost.

Now, here we don't blame japanese korean for job loss do we? why not I just dont understand.

Current IT industry is changing at very high pace, and I can tell you, within 10 years, even Indian firms will struggle to keep jobs, as there will be automation in work via 6-7th generation tools. brazil is emerging, china too has emerged as a strong contender. china is looking promising as of now with very low cost - skilled worker ratio.

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May 6, 2012 2:39 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to IAmNumber813

Infosys is never going to publicly admit any wrong doing. Period. There will be not apology private or public. Any such action  would mean admission of guilt.This is going to go down in court and they are probably already preparing their appeals on the strong likelihood of a guilty verdict. Dragging this out in courts is the standard procedure for corporations. One thing s certain, no matter how this case turns out, there are going to be some rich lawyers.

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May 6, 2012 3:24 AM diane diane  says: in response to Dolores

you cant just pick a phrase out of a sentence and start a fight. read the sentence carefully. if you just want to fight nobody can reason with you. "are old" is just one part of the sentence. I hope your organisation is doing well and when I say doing well, I meant are looking at cost efficient model to stay in the business. Staying the business is bigger picture - if you are not staying in the business then same thing will happen as that is happening to GM and Ford. All american money-jobs will go outside, not necessary to one country - BRIC countries.

I am on your side, I am against losing jobs. fighting with me on terms that are totally not related is not going to help. Its other thing that I have been performing despite adverse conditions. But I am against fight which will cause even me to leave the america and shutdown the basic principles on which america is built.

American jobs will be saved if america can sustain its growth. Job market, even if we say - pull back all IT jobs, we will still struggle. We need to work on all fronts, manufacturing is the main. Concentrate on manufacturing, start from basics, learn from mistakes, stop importing smallest stuff from china. You know or don't, USA owes 3 trillion dollars to china! 11 trillion investments of china is basically our money!

To bring back america to its leading position should be target!! I will fight with you in this cause no matter what Spain forms major population in US too. For spain, for america.

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May 6, 2012 9:00 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to diane

"Are old" - good grief, just what we need in America. What are we Americans doing? How can you miss all the adult training and education that Americans are going into hock for? All the degrees and certs we keep getting, often into our 50s and 60s? Thinking in stereotypes is ugly and toxic. If your organization cannot find talented Americans with current skills and training, I'd say you have definitely found a skills deficit problem - but it's in your HR department, not in the candidate pool. My best tech hires have almost all been well north of 40.

Don't look now, but here in America we actually have laws against the type of discriminatory thinking you just expressed. And, while age discrimination lawsuits may be hard to win, they are among the most expensive to lose. Do your organization a favor and bow out of any hiring selection role you may be called upon to contribute, before we are reading about your company in Don's blog.

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May 6, 2012 11:22 AM merican merican  says:

Are US businesses benefiting by having Indian foreign nationals?   Lets see, do you hear many compliments about how well the call centers are satisfying callers needs?

For me, seems to me that as soon as I hear the words "I went to the Indian equivalent of MIT" I know that any software written will be useless.   The quality of software I've seen, and the trouble we have to go through to get it, is that actually US business are not benefiting at all.

No one expects other than crap software, and no one expects to pay more than these companies charge for software developers with the paper credentials these guys claim to have.

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May 7, 2012 12:03 PM jake_leone jake_leone  says: in response to D.K.Bose

Based upon my experience, I very much believe what the former manager is saying.

I used to work for a Japanese electronic giant (a household name).  About two weeks before a trip to Japan to setup/debug software, myself and 30 other software engineers and technicians were briefed on what to say at the Airport (Narita).

The official statement was to say I was there "To conduct training classes for local Japanese personnel".  Nothing could be farther from the truth, yet that is what the American lawyers were telling us to say.

While I was there several of my co-workers were detained and sent back home (at 8k a pop, what a waste of expensive air fare).  I was lucky, I completed my task, virtually unquestioned (getting caught would not have affected my job, but might have caused engineers to be hired in Japan).

So this is a Japanese electronic giant, not a cut-throat cheap operation, (It was a billion dollar sattelite station we were working on), too cheap to hire local Japanese engineers, to train with us (in San Jose), and then do the job in Japan, with our instructional help. 

And the motivations were many, money (cost of air fare, but hey the detaining and returning personnel is hard to predict, we got burned, good for the Japanese Immigration system, they don't fool around).  Maybe if we had similar personnel here in the U.S., we might not have had a 911.

Project speed can also be hampered, that is a big factor.  Having to get people involved in the hiring/interviewing process is a cost (an expensive time-cost).

And you know we had expensive American lawyers telling us to lie.  InfoSys probably has a similar, unethical, practically criminal, group of immigration lawyers working advising them on the cost vs benefit of having your employees commit federal crime so your CEO can collect a fat bonus.

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May 8, 2012 4:43 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says:

Why is anyone shocked at this. ALL the Indian bodyshops are behaving this way. 99% of them are RICO-crime syndicates.

"The general attitude I have seen there is they don't really care if they do something wrong that hurts the U.S. economy or people in the United States."

Yes, and guess what, this is one reason unemployment in the US is so high: MILLIONS of these people are here deliberately keeping Americans out of work. It goes back to the British thing. Most Indians resent white people because of Britain's colonization of India 200 years ago. Every Indian kid in school is taught India is poor because Britain robbed them. So they grow up and when they come to America, it's "payback time" as one Indian said to me. These people are raping our economy and deliberately keeping Americans out of jobs. That is why American IT workers are having such a hard time finding work. There will be no recovery in the US until the gov't puts a stop to this rampant and blatant discrimination against Americans by Indian businesses in the US.

This phenomenon is also the cause of our "credit crisis". You can't have $50 BILLION in remittances sucked out of the US and not have loss of capital. India, Inc. is SIPHONING America's wealth back to India under the guise of "business operations".

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May 8, 2012 4:47 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to D.K.Bose

"To me this is all cooked up stories to vent out frustration of may be not getting GC filed by the employer and had to return after 6 years."

Stop trying to draw attention away from India, Inc.'s crimes against Americans. The massive ethnic cleansing of Americans out of IT by India, Inc. is a crime against humanity and should be prosecuted under hate crime laws. You people are doing it to Americans purposely and you know you are. Now you are all being found out and you don't want to be found out. You can't hide lies forever. The truth is finally coming out in the open after 14 years.

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May 8, 2012 4:49 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Jobs4US

"What about Infosys clients?  Certainly their HR Departments must conduct background and security checks on temporary visa workers working on their premises. And, don't those checks include verifying legal eligibility to work in the USA (say e-verify)?  Again, knowledge of a felony and failing to report it is also a felony."

You had better believe InfoSys clients are complicit in this too. Even if they did verify, they will still hire illegals because US businesses want more more more more more cheap cheap cheap labor.

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May 8, 2012 4:52 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Barbara Griffith

"Every H-1B issued is a career theft from an American, especially in these hard economic times. Only a tiny percentage of the H-1B jobs listed involved esoteric or rare skills."

Back in 1998 when Americans were running the economy and it was booming, India came in and said "Don't worry, we'll only be here for Y2K and dot-com boom and then go home". 14 years later not only have they not gone home, but now they've taken over. There is nothing so permanent as a TEMPORARY GUEST WORKER. What was supposed to be a visa program to AUGMENT TEMPORARY shortages in the US job market has turned into a tidal wave free-for-all for Indian companies to set up shop in America and suck the US dry. Where is the enforcement of the original intent of these visa programs? AUGMENTATION NOT TAKEOVER!

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May 8, 2012 4:57 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to BSS

"Why do people say that Infosys has cut American jobs...How many Americans are being employed by Microsoft, Oracle, Dell, Apple, HP, IBM etc.etc.....All of these have set up their centers in low cost countries (India, China)....Do you sincerely think that banning Infosys will reduce the unemployment rate in USA....Think again....Infy is atleast true to its countrymen (Indians)....But what about us....we have  been betrayed by our own corporations."

None of those companies mentioned except Apple employs Americans in tech jobs. Walk into any thec company in America except Apple and you will see wall to wall workers from India. 98%.

Apple CLOSED its R&D in India in 2006 (google "Apple software logs out of India). Oh wait, Apple is booming. Not surprising.

All the others are dying: Microsoft, HP, IBM.

Yes, if we banned all the Indian bodyshops, especially the big ones in the US, you would see US unemployment rate drop like a rock. When Americans worked these jobs in 1998 the US economy was BOOMING. That was before the Indian bodyshops took over all the tech jobs.

Americans are deliberately being kept out of jobs in the US because they are deemed "too expensive" and too uppity. 3 million Indians all of whom have centuries-old resentments against the west due to Britain's colonization of India 200 years ago are corporate America's perfect answer to "overpaid" American techies.

Send all the TEMPORARY GUEST WORKERS who were supposed to be here only to AUGMENT the workforce home and you'll see the economy boom real quick.

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May 8, 2012 5:00 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to jobs4us

"We can't find enough qualified American workers" is also a lie being told by these Indian bodyshops so they can flood the US with more of their own workers so more US capital can be sent back to India via remittances. NRIs currently ship $50 BILLION back home to India from the US every single YEAR. Americans spend their $ here, foreign workers send it home. What do you think would happen to the US economy if $50 BILLION a year was suddenly spent back into it instead of being shipped back to India? The US economy would boom.

There will be no recovery in the US until AMERICANS are given back good-paying jobs.

Make no mistake, this is an economic race war against Americans.

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May 8, 2012 5:11 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Chris

"Accept the reality. US has lost the edge and the Americans have become incompetent. You make a living out of this trash talk. Better do something useful. Now American expats are queuing up for Indian visa. Think why that is happening"

Americans invented the IT industry long before India, Inc. set foot in America. The list of failed projects and destroyed companies at the hands of India, Inc. goes on and on. The one remaining company that still hires mostly Americans is Apple (google "Apple software logs out of India").

And Don, you said you had a policy of deleting any posts that disparage any one group of people. Well, what about this arrogant clown calling all Americans "incompetent"? Why is that statement allowed to stay on the web?

We can't be that incompetent since we invented IT long before India ever got here. And Apple is still being run by Americans. Oh wait..... Apple is booming.

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May 8, 2012 5:23 AM Walmart Walmart  says: in response to Manish

"Those who are cribbing about loss of technology jobs in the US, Its a big thing. There could be millions in the world who have lost jobs because of technology/tools (Weapons too for that matter) developed in USA. It all seems rosy when you are getting everything and you'll advocate for things that benefits you."

You seem to forget that Americans created the IT industry long before anyone else came to the US. IT doesn't benefit just Americans, it benefits the whole world. Where were you when Americans were working 16 hour days for 2 decades to create the IT industry? You didn't seem to care about IT until WE made it a valuable occupation. Since we created everything the world now enjoys, don't you think WE should get some of the benefits instead of another country getting all the benefits as India now is? What makes you think you are entitled to the fruits of someone else's work? We realize India is a former Soviet ally but America isn't a communist country. You don't have the right to take over what others have worked to create.

"That what US and Europe hoped for when they were advocating for the world to become a 'Global village'. Now US/Europe is getting beaten is the game they themselves started and thats why this much noise about loss of jobs and other things."

The US never advocated THEFT of industry created by others. Do you have the right to move to Japan and take over Toyota just because you want good jobs? No, Toyota was created by the Japanese so they have the rights to benefit from it, not you. You didn't lift a finger to invent the IT industry so you don't deserve the jobs. In fact, India, Inc. has DESTROYED 30 million US jobs in the last 14 years. We are only getting "beaten" because you are deliberately keeping Americans out of the IT jobs since you can't compete with us. Anyone can win by cheating.

"US gave capitalism to the world whose most basic tenet has been survival of the fittest."

Survival of the fittest is not a basic tenant of capitalism. Do you know who Henry Ford was? He said "I have to pay my workers enough to enable them to buy my products". Creation of a middle class, not slave labor is a core tenant of capitalism.

"Till the time US thought it was fittest it advocated for all the things that gave it the advantage. Now that those things are turning disadvantageous we are hearing all the noise around US job and livelihood loss."

We are the fittest. India, Inc. has not exactly done a good job of keeping the US economy booming, has it? 14 years ago when Americans were running the US economy, it was booming. The world economy is a wreck thanks to "fit" newcomers like India, Inc. running it. India banned Wal-Mart and Target from coming in in order to protect the local Indian population against "livlihood loss" in India. If you can do it, why can't we ban Indian bodyshops in order to protect American livlihoods? You seem to want protectionism for India but not for America. So much for globalization.

"People who have caluculated the amount that Infosys took away from US, can they calculate the amount whole of the world has contributed to US economy?""

US has lost 30 million jobs since 1998 and the economy is a wreck. Contributed? Biggest recession in 70 years is a contribution?

USA and its people have given the world everything. Every industry India and China have were invented in USA by Americans. Can you name for us even one new industry India or China has invented and given to America for free the way we give you all our industries for free?

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May 8, 2012 5:24 AM Walmart Walmart  says: in response to Manish

"Those who are cribbing about loss of technology jobs in the US, Its a big thing.There could be millions in the world who have lost jobs because of technology/tools (Weapons too for that matter) developed in USA.It all seems rosy when you are getting everything and you'll advocate for things that benefits you."

You seem to forget that Americans created the IT industry long before anyone else came to the US.IT doesn't benefit just Americans, it benefits the whole world.Where were you when Americans were working 16 hour days for 2 decades to create the IT industry?You didn't seem to care about IT until WE made it a valuable occupation.Since we created everything the world now enjoys, don't you think WE should get some of the benefits instead of another country getting all the benefits as India now is?What makes you think you are entitled to the fruits of someone else's work?We realize India is a former Soviet ally but America isn't a communist country.You don't have the right to take over what others have worked to create.

"That what US and Europe hoped for when they were advocating for the world to become a 'Global village'.Now US/Europe is getting beaten is the game they themselves started and thats why this much noise about loss of jobs and other things."

The US never advocated THEFT of industry created by others.Do you have the right to move to Japan and take over Toyota just because you want good jobs?No, Toyota was created by the Japanese so they have the rights to benefit from it, not you.You didn't lift a finger to invent the IT industry so you don't deserve the jobs.In fact, India, Inc.has DESTROYED 30 million US jobs in the last 14 years.We are only getting "beaten" because you are deliberately keeping Americans out of the IT jobs since you can't compete with us.Anyone can win by cheating.

"US gave capitalism to the world whose most basic tenet has been survival of the fittest."

Survival of the fittest is not a basic tenant of capitalism.Do you know who Henry Ford was?He said "I have to pay my workers enough to enable them to buy my products".Creation of a middle class, not slave labor is a core tenant of capitalism.

"Till the time US thought it was fittest it advocated for all the things that gave it the advantage.Now that those things are turning disadvantageous we are hearing all the noise around US job and livelihood loss."

We are the fittest.India, Inc.has not exactly done a good job of keeping the US economy booming, has it?14 years ago when Americans were running the US economy, it was booming.The world economy is a wreck thanks to "fit" newcomers like India, Inc.running it.India banned Wal-Mart and Target from coming in in order to protect the local Indian population against "livlihood loss" in India.If you can do it, why can't we ban Indian bodyshops in order to protect American livlihoods?You seem to want protectionism for India but not for America.So much for globalization.

"People who have caluculated the amount that Infosys took away from US, can they calculate the amount whole of the world has contributed to US economy?""

US has lost 30 million jobs since 1998 and the economy is a wreck.Contributed?Biggest recession in 70 years is a contribution?

USA and its people have given the world everything.Every industry India and China have were invented in USA by Americans.Can you name for us even one new industry India or China has invented and given to America for free the way we give you all our industries for free?

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May 8, 2012 5:27 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Elvis

"They are simply pumping as much money out of America as they can, as fast as they can."

Currently, according to Times of India NRIs send $50 BILLION a YEAR back to India from the US. And that is just the amount guest workers are sending home. That doesn't count the amounts India, Inc. companies operating in the US are sending home. There are even news stories on Indian TV saying "We need to get dollars into the country".

And we wonder why we have a "credit crisis". Guess where all the "credit" (capital sitting in our banks) has gone!

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May 8, 2012 5:28 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Manish
"I accept India is overpopulated, vile labor practices are rampant, caste system exists but how does this affect the US? If US boats of a superior work culture, I don't think that same culture would have been in place on day one. Cultures evolve and sooner or later it will get better in India. But these are not the core issues here and none of these is causing hardship you US guys.In fact what you are not able to digest is the fact that an India can write as better code as an american can, an Indian can work as efficiently as an American can, an Indian can create/maintain as good or even better IT systems as any other guy on the whole Earth will."Then why have countless US companies collapsed with Indian IT workers running them?Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.Apple - Indian national and former Goldman Sachs board member Rajat Gupta charged with leaking Intel and Apple secrets over the phone.Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S. by Indian national guest worker)Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead. Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S. airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long intComputer Associates - Former CEO Sanjay Kumar, an Indian national, sentenced to 12 years in federal prison for accounting fraud.Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.Dell - call center (closed in India)Delta call centers (closed in India)Duke University - Massive scientific fraud by Indian national Dr. Anil Potti discovered in 2012.Enron, WorldCom, Qwest, and Tyco all hired large numbers of foreign workers from India before their scandals.Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out. Indian logic bomb creator found guilty and sent to prison.Goldman Sachs - Kunil Shah, VP & Managing Director - GS had to be bailed out by US taxpayers for $550 BILLION.GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years laterHP - Got out of the PC hardware business in 2011 and can't compete with Apple's tablets. HP was taken over by Indians and Chinese in 2001. So much for 'Asian' talent!HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)IBM bill collecting system for Austin, TX failed in 2012 written by Indians at IBMIntel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)Intel - Trade secret stolen by Indian national Biswamohan Pani in 2012.JetStar Airways computer failure brings down Christchurch airport on 9/17/11. JetStar is owned by Quantas - which is know to have outsourced to India, Inc.Kodak: Outsourced to India in 2006, filed for bankruptcy in Jan, 2012.Lehman (Jasjit Bhattal ruined the company. Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma & wife in the U.S.Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs. Stock used to be $100. Today it's lucky to be over $25. Not to mention that Vista thing.MIPS - Taken over by Indian national Sandeep Vij in 2010, being sold off in 2012.MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)MyNines - Reply
May 8, 2012 5:29 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Manish

"I accept India is overpopulated, vile labor practices are rampant, caste system exists but how does this affect the US?If US boats of a superior work culture, I don't think that same culture would have been in place on day one.Cultures evolve and sooner or later it will get better in India.But these are not the core issues here and none of these is causing hardship you US guys.

In fact what you are not able to digest is the fact that an India can write as better code as an american can, an Indian can work as efficiently as an American can, an Indian can create/maintain as good or even better IT systems as any other guy on the whole Earth will."

Then why have countless US companies collapsed with Indian IT workers running them?

Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.

AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)

AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).

Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.

Apple - Indian national and former Goldman Sachs board member Rajat Gupta charged with leaking Intel and Apple secrets over the phone.

Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).

Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)

Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)

Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S.by Indian national guest worker)

Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead.Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.

Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.

Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.

ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S.airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int

Computer Associates - Former CEO Sanjay Kumar, an Indian national, sentenced to 12 years in federal prison for accounting fraud.

Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.

Dell - call center (closed in India)

Delta call centers (closed in India)

Duke University - Massive scientific fraud by Indian national Dr.Anil Potti discovered in 2012.

Enron, WorldCom, Qwest, and Tyco all hired large numbers of foreign workers from India before their scandals.

Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out.Indian logic bomb creator found guilty and sent to prison.

Goldman Sachs - Kunil Shah, VP &Managing Director - GS had to be bailed out by US taxpayers for $550 BILLION.

GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later

HP - Got out of the PC hardware business in 2011 and can't compete with Apple's tablets.HP was taken over by Indians and Chinese in 2001.So much for 'Asian' talent!

HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)

IBM bill collecting system for Austin, TX failed in 2012 written by Indians at IBM

Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)

Intel - Trade secret stolen by Indian national Biswamohan Pani in 2012.

JetStar Airways computer failure brings down Christchurch airport on 9/17/11. Reply

May 8, 2012 5:29 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Manish
JetStar is owned by Quantas - which is know to have outsourced to India, Inc.

Kodak:Outsourced to India in 2006, filed for bankruptcy in Jan, 2012.

Lehman (Jasjit Bhattal ruined the company.Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)

Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma &wife in the U.S.

Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs.Stock used to be $100.Today it's lucky to be over $25.Not to mention that Vista thing.

MIPS - Taken over by Indian national Sandeep Vij in 2010, being sold off in 2012.

MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)

MyNines - A startup founded and run by Indian national Apar Kothari went belly up after throwing millions of America's VC $ down the drain.

Nomura Securities - (In 2011 "struggling to compete on the world stage").No wonder because Jasjit Bhattal formerly of failed Lehman ran it.See Lehman above.

PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed).

PepsiCo - Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi' watch.

Polycom - Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading.

Qantas - See AirBus above

Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure)

Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m).

SAP - Same as Deloitte above in 2010.

Singapore airlines (IT functions taken over in 2009 by TCS, website trashed in August, 2011)

Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired)

State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued

State of Texas failed IBM project.

Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle).

UK's NHS outsourced numerous jobs including health records to India in mid-2000 resulting in $26 billion over budget.

Union Bank of California - Cancelled Finacle project run by India's InfoSys in 2011.

United - call center (closed in India)

US Navy F-18 jet crashes into Virginia apartment building on 4/6/12 after outsourcing F-18 work to India's Tata.

Victorian Order of Nurses, Canada (Payroll system screwed up by SAP/IBM in mid-2011)

Virgin Atlantic (software written in India caused cloud IT failure)

World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

I could post the whole list here but I don't want to crash any servers.

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May 8, 2012 5:30 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Manish

"Appreciate something which is good and also have the courage to accept that somewhere somebody might be much better at doing things you are currently doing. When you'll understand this, one or two visa frauds won't matter much. Those who have done so will anyways be caught and punished."

Can you please tell us which commercial operating system comes from India so I can go out and buy it?

And why did Apple CLOSE its R&D in India in 2006 and then BOOM using American programmers?

If you were doing things better than Americans, the US economy would be booming. It was when we were running it.

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May 8, 2012 5:32 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Elvis

"India's superior "fitness" is based on vile labor practices, overpopulation, and the vestiges of the caste system."

It's also based on keeping competition out of the marketplace - namely American IT workers. I've been in software 20 years. I can't count the number of times I've had to TRAIN these people. "What is byte-swapping"? Why can I read this file on a PC but not on a Mac? "Why does it crash on your machine but not on mine"? LOL.

REAL fit there!

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May 8, 2012 5:36 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Wisey

"Americans  benefits by outsourcing jobs to low cost manufacturing  countries and in return these labor intensive countries get a boost in their economy.  This is what you call 'World Trade'."

If offshoring American jobs was benefitting Americans there never would have been a housing crisis, bank collapse, and biggest recession in 70 years in America. What do you expect Americans to pay their $500,000 mortgages with? Dirt?

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May 8, 2012 5:37 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to wisey

"Well said. I guess not every one understand how much other countries lose when their talent is drained to developed countries."

Talent? 14 years of importing "talent" from abroad has led to the biggest recession in 70 years. Some "talent". Talent at wrecking economies, yeah.

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May 8, 2012 5:39 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to hoapres

"Having said that, on the other hand companies which are also doing the right thing by applying for H1B or L1 visas are still getting denied"

What makes you think anyone has the right to AUTOMATICALLY get visas approved? Visas are requested by the US, not demanded by India. It is the US who decides who can come in and out to work, not India. You were all supposed to go home after Y2K and dot-com boom, not stay here for 14 years, take over, and deliberately exclude Americans from jobs in their own country.

ALL foreign work visas should be denied while Americans are unemployed. After all, Americans invented IT, not India.

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May 8, 2012 5:44 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to Indian_H1B

"What happened to reporting on the basis of statistically significant facts? Are you so short on grey matter than some arbitrary guy's trash is the best you can rustle up?"

Statistically significant facts:

- When Americans were running the economy 14 years ago, it was booming.

- Since India, Inc has taken over our most importnt industry, the US has had its biggest recession in 70 years.

- India, Inc. is out to systematically exclude Americans from the US workforce so that more dollars can be sent back to India instead of being spent into the US economy.

- According to the Times of India, NRIs send $50 BILLION a year out of the US economy and into India.

"I am from India and I will endorse that exaggeration is commonplace. Infosys is likely just a labor arbitrage outfit. But they almost certainly are too busy and have too little political savvy to go about destroying the US systematically. Kindly save such fantasy for your contribution to Captain America or some such comic series.

Ridiculous!"

Not so ridiculous. Here is one email from an Indian guest worker in the US and the intent is clear:

From: "Rajesh Kumar Ramachandran


Subject: Listen to me A******!!


Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 20:49:20 -0700 (PDT)

"Now listen carefully to me a*****.. dont just bark around in the corner like a rabies stricken stray dog about your pathetic views about politics and jobs. If your insecure about your skills and abilities thats your f***** problem not Indians or any other politicians.. Well you want me to provoke you well then hear this, we are gonna take all your jobs away.. we gonna make sure that you dont even have money to buy s*** and eat, we gonna take evrything thatwas yours.. we gonna drape the Statue of Liberty with a saree (you dont know wahta saree iis, well its a dress which Indian women wear).. now get your f****** stinking face out of here A******!!!!!"

Indians are here to "recover" their "stolen" wealth which they all believe the British "stole" from them when Britain "colonized" them 200 years ago. Companies like InfoSys etc are nothing more than India's "wealth recovery divisions".

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May 8, 2012 5:55 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to diane

"you need to understand few facts. If a person is working in an organisation for 10 years and doesn't even know what all components are part of architecture, the person doesn't deserve his job. I am at a position where I can take few decisions for my company. and I can tell you - IT firms - contractors charge way to high than a american, but still we have to look at them because our guys don't follow the commitments, lack at technical capability, are old and their learning curve is gone."

If we "lack at the technical capability" then how did we invent IT long before you ever got here? And age discrimination is ILLEGAL in the US in case you didn't know. I am 44 and a master at iOS, Mac OS X development, I've written 20 commerical software products including at Apple and Sony. I guess iOS isn't really a relevant skill today, right?

"I have seen a person who doesn't even know how to operate an excel! A person who requires 3 years to learn a thing is taken up by these folks within 3 months!"

And I have seen imported workers from India trying to write a C program asking "Why does it crash on your machine but not on mine" and "what is byte-swapping". I ahve to TRAIN these geniuses from India DAILY and I laugh to myself everytime I hear one of you say we are too old and lacking in technical skills.

"Jobs are gone - a plain simple fact. and we are to blame."

No, India, Inc. is to blame. 28 MILLION jobs have been destroyed in the US since 1998.

"But what is being done from your side? what is being done from american IT guy? what new he brings to the table, that will benefit the organisation?"

Hmmm.... well Apple still hires mostly American programmers and closed its R&D in India in 2006. Oh wait..... Apple is booming. Nothing new being brought to the table at Apple. Nope.

"when i go out to recruit a person, I look out for local person first. I put 4 conditions which are very simple, but nobody is willing to work from home after 5 or put extra effort on weekends!"

Well we worked 16 hours a day 6 days a week for 20 years to build this industry long before you ever came here. Since you've come here the US economy has collapsed. And you're lecturing us about "work"? HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

IT industry is big, same like auto industry.

"FORD, GM all were doing good before honda toyota hyundai came. recession came, their sales dumped, jobs lost."

Japanese were dumping cars on the US in the 80s below cost using illegal subsidies from the Japanese gov't. And India puts 100% tariffs on US autos in India so why can't we? GM was booming in 2006 BTW until it signed a $300 MILLION outsourcing deal with WIPRO. 2 years later it had to be bailed out by US taxpayers. Great work there, Wipro

"Now, here we don't blame japanese korean for job loss do we? why not I just dont understand."

Yes we did. If you were even in the US in the 80s you would have remembed the news on TV of Detroit autoworkers smashing Japanese cars with sledgehammers. Just as we had to force Japan to play fair, it is high time we force India to play fiar. You block Wal-Mart, Target from opening in India, we block India's work visas. After all, we live in a GLOBALIZED WORLD. LOL.

Current IT industry is changing at very high pace, and I can tell you, within 10 years, even Indian firms will struggle to keep jobs, as there will be automation in work via 6-7th generation tools. brazil is emerging, china too has emerged as a strong contender. china is looking promising as of now with very low cost - skilled worker ratio."

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May 8, 2012 5:56 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to diane

"you need to understand few facts.If a person is working in an organisation for 10 years and doesn't even know what all components are part of architecture, the person doesn't deserve his job.I am at a position where I can take few decisions for my company.and I can tell you - IT firms - contractors charge way to high than a american, but still we have to look at them because our guys don't follow the commitments, lack at technical capability, are old and their learning curve is gone."

If we "lack at the technical capability" then how did we invent IT long before you ever got here?And age discrimination is ILLEGAL in the US in case you didn't know.I am 44 and a master at iOS, Mac OS X development, I've written 20 commerical software products including at Apple and Sony.I guess iOS isn't really a relevant skill today, right?

"I have seen a person who doesn't even know how to operate an excel!A person who requires 3 years to learn a thing is taken up by these folks within 3 months!"

And I have seen imported workers from India trying to write a C program asking "Why does it crash on your machine but not on mine" and "what is byte-swapping".I ahve to TRAIN these geniuses from India DAILY and I laugh to myself everytime I hear one of you say we are too old and lacking in technical skills.

"Jobs are gone - a plain simple fact.and we are to blame."

No, India, Inc.is to blame.28 MILLION jobs have been destroyed in the US since 1998.

"But what is being done from your side?what is being done from american IT guy?what new he brings to the table, that will benefit the organisation?"

Hmmm....well Apple still hires mostly American programmers and closed its R&D in India in 2006.Oh wait.....Apple is booming.Nothing new being brought to the table at Apple.Nope.

"when i go out to recruit a person, I look out for local person first.I put 4 conditions which are very simple, but nobody is willing to work from home after 5 or put extra effort on weekends!"

Well we worked 16 hours a day 6 days a week for 20 years to build this industry long before you ever came here.Since you've come here the US economy has collapsed.And you're lecturing us about "work"?HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

IT industry is big, same like auto industry.

"FORD, GM all were doing good before honda toyota hyundai came.recession came, their sales dumped, jobs lost."

Japanese were dumping cars on the US in the 80s below cost using illegal subsidies from the Japanese gov't.And India puts 100% tariffs on US autos in India so why can't we?GM was booming in 2006 BTW until it signed a $300 MILLION outsourcing deal with WIPRO.2 years later it had to be bailed out by US taxpayers.Great work there, Wipro

"Now, here we don't blame japanese korean for job loss do we?why not I just dont understand."

Yes we did.If you were even in the US in the 80s you would have remembed the news on TV of Detroit autoworkers smashing Japanese cars with sledgehammers.Just as we had to force Japan to play fair, it is high time we force India to play fiar.You block Wal-Mart, Target from opening in India, we block India's work visas.After all, we live in a GLOBALIZED WORLD.LOL.

Current IT industry is changing at very high pace, and I can tell you, within 10 years, even Indian firms will struggle to keep jobs, as there will be automation in work via 6-7th generation tools. Reply

May 8, 2012 5:56 AM Wakjob Wakjob  says: in response to diane
brazil is emerging, china too has emerged as a strong contender.china is looking promising as of now with very low cost - skilled worker ratio."

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May 8, 2012 11:21 AM GoaToHouston GoaToHouston  says: in response to Manish

Firstly, i would like to mention that I am Indian with a work permit currently residing in the US. Every population group, indians, chinese, japanese .. greeks will have a set of highly competent individuals, another set that are average and another bunch that are sub-par. The primary reason for outsourcing is the lower cost. Manpower in india is inexpensive.. a junior IT analyst would be paid about 6k to 8k$ per annum. Design and coding jobs would be paid much better but still far lower than the average onsite salaries. Manish, if you think you are that good at coding, ask your client to bring you onsite and pay your employer the 150K they would be asked to pay. I doubt the client will agree. Its far cheaper to get it done offshore.... just like manufacturing goods is is inexpensive in china.

With the world economies knit together, its going to be difficult to stop outsourcing in its tracks. The dollar is too strong - the conversion rates to other currencies make outsourcing very attractive.

I have witnessed the trauma that americans are going through. My client recently retrenched over 8k people. This sustained job loss cannot continue indefinately.. a balance is going to have to be reached soon. If the dollar somehow loses its strength, its likely that offshoring will not be all that attractive to clients. Or will the jobs move to locations that offer even lower costs???

In time, as India and China become more prosperous, its likely that these jobs will move to lower cost locations like africa / eastern europe / vietnam / philippines..

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May 8, 2012 12:16 PM My2Sense My2Sense  says:

Firstpost.com (Indian news site) has picked up the story from Forrester Analysts's report.

www.firstpost.com/business/infosys-visa-row-forrester-says-clients-turning-to-plan-b-301854.html

Why is this important ? This is the first time we are seeing a hint of what might be looming large for Infosys, as far as the Indian media reports go.  So far, others who have been reporting this (e.g. www.techgoss.com/) were niche players getting too few eyeballs.

Admitted that Firstpost.com is not mainstream media but "only" an online news website. However, it is some kind of an experimental feed-in platform, as it is allied to TV Channel TV18. One of the other major mainstream TV channels of India (NDTV) is linked to Mr Murthy and has been giving gentler/kinder coverage. TV18 may strike a balance as far as Indian viewership is concerned.  In India itself, competition between different "body shop" companies will intensify as the turf is getting hotter. This is a space to watch.

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May 8, 2012 12:20 PM My2Sense My2Sense  says: in response to D.K.Bose
May 9, 2012 7:26 AM infosheet infosheet  says: in response to Truth Man

Truth man, GC through infosys and other Indian firms is reserved for the well connected only. People who are really good have no business to be with any of these firms. I have worked for these companies in the past and can guarantee that visa abuse is rampant.

I agree that the fed should also investigate all IT services firms based out of India. The business model demands unethical behaviour.

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May 9, 2012 7:59 AM infosheet infosheet  says: in response to Wakjob

wakjob,

Let me tell you how the financial crises happened.

The Fed had outsourced support of the money printing application to India. A scheduled daily job prints 1000 dollars every day. They wanted to print 10,000 dollars for a few days and asked the support folks in India to add a 0 to one of the configuration files. The support guy based in India thought its better to added 20 zeros based on some astrological predications.

By the time the Fed realized what had happened, billions of dollars were already printed. To avoid wasting the extra dollars, they decided to lend it to banks so that it can be lent to the general public and everybody can have a good time. Now its pay back time and nobody has the money to pay the banks and then the fed asks the support guys in India to print hundreds of billions to capitalize the banks.

So now you know what caused the financial crises. One more reason to blame India. I have also written a thesis on how slavery, colonialism, racism etc can also be traced to Indians.

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May 10, 2012 1:35 AM AnArche AnArche  says: in response to kiprn

Interesting that such virulent anti-Indian commentary is allowed to stand, while similar negativity might be erased instantly

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May 10, 2012 4:02 AM NothingSpl NothingSpl  says: in response to AnArche

What to expect when America lacks common sense?

Here is best example of where American common sense stand...

news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/18-month-old-baby-pulled-flight-parents-interviewed-175521187.html

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May 10, 2012 7:00 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to Wakjob

Finally, wakjob found his way here as well. Spreading the same misinformation from forum to forum. Looks like that is his full time job

So if American bankers bet on other countries because of their undying greed for money that is Indians fault. So recession was caused by India.

If your president went to war in search of imaginary WMDs draining billions down the toilet, yes..that is definitely Indian's fault.

If circuit city cannot sell electronics, thats Indians fault.

With this logic, you are sure find man fan followers...thanks for entertaining us again.

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May 11, 2012 10:49 AM mixus mixus  says: in response to Wakjob

Is it true? If it is then out of control. May be..

visasblog.y-axis.com/?p=1004

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May 11, 2012 11:15 AM mixus mixus  says: in response to Wakjob

What you say??  Unbelivable..

www.blueseed.co/concept-vessels.html

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May 11, 2012 11:38 AM MNY MNY  says: in response to NothingSpl

You got to understand that it is Indians who form a beeline and commit visa frauds to enter USA and not the other way round. So dont make it a case of Kettle calling the pot black and if you are so proud of India then why cry/crib about not getting US visa. Hypocrites !!!

The case at hand is the Infosys B1 visa fraud so please restrict discussion only within the limits. No need to bring other topics that are so irrelevant

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May 11, 2012 11:58 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to mixus

The first outbreak of Legionnaires disease on the ship and that will be the end of it.

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May 14, 2012 9:39 AM Mike S Mike S  says:
May 15, 2012 5:38 AM Insider Insider  says:

Just read one comment from the article in economictimes. This tells how unethical the company is.

economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/ites/infosys-growth-pangs-founders-need-to-let-go-of-their-continuing-influence/opinions/13141128.cms

Prashanth (Chennai)

I was a Delivery Manager just a year back in the IHL practice of Infosys. The instruction to bill clients for more people than what we had on the team came directly from IHL Delivery Head!!! The DH's contention was that we need to 'somehow' make quarterly numbers and everyone up to the level of Delivery Manager needs to be billable. His solution? Bill DMs, GPMs, even Onsite Engagement managers in slots that were meant to filled with Software Engineers, Leads. For billing Onsite Engagement Manager, we were even asked not to staff up to 3 offshore engineers (because the onsite engineer costed as much as 3 offshore engineers). This was the state of affairs when I ran away from Infosys. This is the interpretation of 'Jugaad' by Infy middle management. The same "get it done 'somehow' policy" landed them in trouble with US visa policies. I am sure there are more skeletons in the Infosys cupboard waiting to fall. Infosys even 6-7 years back is so different from Infosys today that it really needs to change its punch-line "Powered by Incompetence, Driven to extinction by Greed".

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May 15, 2012 8:00 AM Viveck Viveck  says: in response to AnArche

Best solution to this problem is let US ban all immigrant workers etc etc

And let all immigrant worker nation like India ban US goods totally, let's see where US sells those McDonald's, apple, branded goods , defense and airplanes to...

What the people here don't get is you have to give with one hand and then you get with the other...  India have a massive budget deficit cause of worldwide manufacturers lining up to sell their stuff in India & in return Indians ready to take up those measly salaried jobs which in reality the Americans don't even want... American politics knows this truth which their citizens can't digest...

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May 15, 2012 8:19 AM Greed Greed  says:

Greed is source of every problem faced by US. As long as this greed continues nothing can get US out of any problem. Its not that corporate CEOs are greedy...every single person in US are part of greater greed in sucking world resources and without fail they cry foul on others that too in greed.

As of 2008 US is 5th in greediest nation in the world...may be it will could be 1st by now :P

www.livescience.com/20308-greedy-nations-top-resource-users-earth.html

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May 15, 2012 11:28 AM Jake_Leone Jake_Leone  says: in response to Viveck

You could not be more incorrect.

Americans love tech jobs.  I have yet to meet an engineer that didn't love their work.  These jobs are very desirable.

U.S. tech companies are massively profitable right now.  Even Yahoo, which is laying off 2000 people this year, makes a PROFIT of 90+k per employee. 

Tell me what private business wouldn't hire if they could make 90k profit on an employee?

The main problem with U.S. tech, is failure of CEOs to compete.  For example the non-pouching agreements between Silicon Valley tech companies.  CEOs get paid on increasing profits, if profits just stay the same, they are failures in the eyes of the Board of Directors.

Tech Corporations, and the insane profit requirements, are stagnating our economy.  They are holding these profits offshore, so they can avoid paying their due taxes.  And the only way that money can get back in, is through government T-bills.  Hence the trillion+ dollar per year deficit the U.S. is running.  While at the same time the U.S. is the only country defending the entire Earth against international terrorism.

Instead of bottling up talent, at reduced pay, waiting for a Green Card.  We should let that talent free, free to return home and start competitive companies.  Companies that will compete with our immensely profitable tech companies.  And eventually those companies will expand to the U.S. and hire americans for very practical reasons.

Profitable Tech companies hire engineers when they face competition.  And frankly many americans are employed by foreign companies.  I was for several years, and I welcome any company in the United States that will hire fairly and NOT PRACTICE massive open bigotry discrimination against U.S. citizens.

The IT outsourcing companies actively discriminate against U.S. citizens, they coerce their employees to commit felonious Visa fraud on their behalf.  All so some CEO can maintain a massive profit level, and collect his huge bonus in Stock and monetary compensation.

These IT oursources use B-1 visas to destroy starting jobs.  Read through the text of Jay Palmer case, you will see where people are brought in, on a B-1 visa, to do Unix script testing.  The very same job, I did (without a college degree, just community college training), and that has in part kept me employed (paying a lot of taxes) for a couple of decades now.

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May 17, 2012 3:45 AM HaveAJob4U HaveAJob4U  says: in response to Jake_Leone

We have opening in our company for mid .NET developers with SQL DB experience (3-5yrs exp)...local (VA,MD or DC) candidates are preferred...sorry no H1bs pls.

Let me see how much really looking for job. if you profile looks good job is assured in a week time. We had this position open for past 30days with less than 5 applied 2 without even having required experience and 3 not available for immediate (within 15 days) joining.

send your resume to pjens72 at y a h o o . c o m

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May 17, 2012 11:45 AM Kiran Kiran  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

If the clients in USA doesn't care about USA economy (by not checking the visas) why an Indian company bothers anyway?

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May 17, 2012 12:01 PM MNY MNY  says: in response to Kiran

You are Wrong. Clients have trusted Infosys and other Indian companies all these years. But ever since Jay Palmer brought this to notice the clients have been wary and started checking with Indian companies as to what visa their employees hold when working at client premises. Infosys lost a big account in California due to this eye-opening act.

Gone are the days when Indian companies could sit and relax and think of cheating

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May 18, 2012 3:07 AM HaveAJob4U HaveAJob4U  says: in response to jake_leone

How about referring someone who is looking for a job? 

Hope you have friends who could benefit from this job.

Just got new position opened...Full time SQL Developer with 3 - 5yrs experience and has good hands-on in writing heavy SQL scripts....again local (VA,MD or DC) candidates are preferred...sorry no H1bs.

Pass on this info to your friends and get me one resource, I write a personal check for $500 to you for each position filled after that resource performed his/her job for 6 months.

Just ask them to send their resume to pjens72 at y a h o o . c o m.

PS: Haven't received single resume so far...with my current market I could say getting a resource is really hard not sure where are those unemployed are ?

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May 18, 2012 7:37 AM Dolores Dolores  says: in response to HaveAJob4U

@Haveajob4U - I call BS. What if the candidate has 10-15 years experience? What is the pay?

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May 18, 2012 9:45 AM Haveajob4U Haveajob4U  says: in response to Dolores

Why you would call BS?

Max 90k budgeted for this position, it is mid level and expected to report to person with 10+yrs experienced. We welcome any experience but we have budget limitation and this position is not at senior level.

If you have 10 - 15yrs and willing to take up mid level position with salary max 90K and have no issue in reporting to 10+yrs experienced you are welcomed too.

Just send your resume to pjens72 at y a h o o . c o m instead of calling names.

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May 18, 2012 12:13 PM jake_leone jake_leone  says: in response to HaveAJob4U

If you read my posts, you'll see I am employed, and have have been for more than 10 years at my current job.

But lets be clear, I don't have a degree, I started in this field doing Unix script testing.  Now I do advanced development work, all without a degree, just self-study.

When people come in on a B-1 visa, to do Unix script testing, this clearly is destroying opportunities for other U.S. citizens, who are trying to change careers (like I was 22 years ago).

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May 19, 2012 12:24 PM mixus mixus  says: in response to HaveAJob4U

Stop this , you can not go with this one job, you are money maker and desperate, damage is done in US job market becasue of greedy people like you. That doesn't mean you guys are trying to break the law and bring H!b's , since 10 to 14 years this thing is going on and on, so many American has change the carrier since then, it takes time now but it is coming back. Wait and watch people like you who eat on daily bread has no clue that you are damaging this country's future, next generation future. Buy the way do you have any growing kids? If yes what they are going to do , same work like you as consultant , cheating or majors in some profesional and apply for walmart like job because npo tech job for Americans in USA.

I am done.

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May 21, 2012 2:20 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to Jake Leone

Looks like you are barking @ wrong tree :P.

Those (jobs openings) are not my post and I  haven't seen any opening in my company and if at all there is one it is none of my job to look for people...which means your entire post  is of no use to me :P.

Have a great day wasting time in posting your rants in this blog as you seem to get paid for that.

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May 21, 2012 2:42 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to Jake Leone

Seriously you need a better job....instead of wasting your time in online blogs you could better put those time in honing your knowledge.

Just visit last 10 blogs of Don and see how much time you had spend on this blog, I bet your family can enjoy your time with than than Don's blog....because after 90hrs of work time and another 10hrs of Don's blog hardly you have few minutes for your family!!!

Also if you are working all you would need is an hour or two a day to honing your skills not 40hrs a day...and if you waste your work time in Don's blog then you have to spend your personal hours to cover it up which is not your companies problem.

By the way $120/yr with benefits for 3 -5 yrs is too much to ask...may in bay area it could be right but not in all locations. One time your are claiming low wage is killing because of too many people for single job but now you are saying only if the salary is $120k you can get resume!!!! Let us know which one is true...looks like lot of story tellers around this blog.

When bashing about more workers for single job you guys use one number and if someone asks for candidate same person says without $120k there is no way you can get resumes. If unemployment is too high then the salary you are expecting is too high to sustain. I would be working for $90k/yr instead on living in unemployment benefit.

If I'm not wrong those 2 jobs posted by HaveAJob4U seems to be full time with benefits....and if a 5yrs experiences wants $120k with benefits then how much would 15yrs would get paid!!!

Also after getting paid $120k you are wasting your time in Don's blog...seems like one more job will be available for an American :P

Get some life my friend.

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May 21, 2012 3:52 AM MNY MNY  says:

LOL seems the curry pot, Infosys, has caught fire now. Very soon we will witness mass exodus of Infosys visa holders back to their home country. USCIS should investigate more such Indian bodyshops and fine them so that they dont dare to cross the line set by lawmakers of this great nation.

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May 21, 2012 3:54 AM MNY MNY  says: in response to ITJob

This is not a blog where you should discuss job openings and associated stuff. Please take it offline. This blog should be strictly adhering to Infosys visa scam case currently being fought by Jay palmer. @Don, do you agree ?

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May 21, 2012 7:12 AM HaveAJob4U HaveAJob4U  says: in response to mixus

Please save your fight for someone who is looking for it. These are genuine opening and we need people asap. I'm not here to prove any point or for any sort of argument. If you got any friends please do refer them so that they can have a job instead of trying to prove some point.

Again we are looking for 2 resources, one for mid .net and another one with strong SQL skills in and around VA, MD and DC...no H1bs please.

send resume to pjens72 at y a h o o . c o m.

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May 21, 2012 10:37 AM mIXUS mIXUS  says: in response to HaveAJob4U

Here click this link and this is Voice of People who sufferd. Read it loudly.

What do you say?

www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-h-b-visas-be-easier-to-get/abuse-of-the-h-1b-program-is-widespread/comments

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May 21, 2012 11:29 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to mixus

You seem to contradict everyone else in this here.

Everyone says unemployment in IT industry is close to 8% (whereas DOL says 3-4%) but you are saying there no one left to take IT jobs because of abuse happening in past 10 - 14yrs.

Everyone says there are engineering grads waiting for jobs but you are saying they all changed career other than IT....if real unemployment is around 14% then what career they are really doing?

Either everyone else is wrong or you are wrong...I inclined to believe you could be wrong because I doubt 99% could be wrong.

Come on guys I know only people who needs H1 to work...so US citizens can pitch in and refer someone to @HaveAJob4U as everyone claims IT industry unemployment is more than 8%...if that is true by now he should have got at least 10 resumes.

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May 21, 2012 12:40 PM Jake Leone Jake Leone  says: in response to ITJob

I see get hundreds of resumes per job offer.  But we are located in the bay area.

Frankly, nobody is looking for a contract job, people need benefits, and the Bay Area you need 100k just to have a decent standard of living and an apartment to live in.

I would never move from the bay area and risk getting stuck at a site where there are few jobs, and the pay is lower than what I am currently making (your job offers are way too low).  But there are plenty of suckers in the world, no doubt you are counting on finding one.

A lot of companies are balking at programmer salaries of 120k or more.  Does this really make any sense when your company is making a hundred thousands dollars in profit per year, per employee?  Not really.

Programmers invest a lot of time in honing their skills, far more than any other profession (where training is often completed, and then you make make 200k for the rest of your life).

The truth is, you are playing for peanuts, and you may need to up the amount to 120k to start getting more resumes. 

A 2 worker household, at any decent job, in the bay area, can take in 120k/yr.  When you ask one of those parent, to devote 90 hours a week to a job, you had better be paying enough to support that entire family, with benefits.  This is especially true in programming, where in addition to doing the work you need to be constantly learning and studying.

A much more stable position, for most families, is to have one worker at a job that has a pension and good benefits.  And the other just follows that career.  If you wonder why we can't get more suckers into programming, you should pay attention to the economics of being a programmer, and the high risk to yourself and family of a profession that requires 2x the work load and constant retooling.

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May 22, 2012 1:31 AM Insider Insider  says: in response to MNY

The company is doomed to fail one way or the other. To start any business the very basic implicit requirements (even before capital) are competency and basic level of integirty. When the business is big , any short fall in the above two areas becomes very apparent. They can't carry on forever by cheating clients, duping employees and abusing laws.

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May 22, 2012 4:35 AM Ex-infosys Ex-infosys  says: in response to Insider

Cheap company, cheap employess with unethical practises. Not worth discussion and should be closed with immediate efect. They take people stating project for cloud architect and make resource work for production support. Company doesn't know basics of business and technology.

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May 22, 2012 8:38 AM Bystander Bystander  says: in response to mIXUS
May 22, 2012 12:41 PM MNY MNY  says: in response to Bystander

Another Infosys related article in an indian newspaper

www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/article3443341.ece

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May 23, 2012 5:37 AM HaveAJob4U HaveAJob4U  says: in response to mIXUS

Please keep your fight for people who is looking for it. I haven't received any resume so far and those positions are still available. Please do refer who may be interested and if the candidate is good job is for him/her in a week or two time frame.

So, guys take some time to get someone who could be benefit from this opening and it is full time job with all benefits (vacation,health insurance, 401k etc). It is not contract job and won't be in a position to offer this position for people looking for contract job.

And regarding salary, I know for sure cost of living in VA/MD is way lower than Bay Area and someone earning $120k in bay area can enjoy same life style for $88k in VA/MD (excluding DC). So for sure for best candidate there is huge scope for growth in career and if anyone knows VA/MD/DC is hot place for IT job growth recently...with Baltimore,MD has less than 2% unemployment rate in IT sector.

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Jun 15, 2012 10:01 AM Deepak Deepak  says:

Business Immigration Visa assists businessmen and investors (High Net-worth Individuals/HNIs), residing in any part of  the world, willing to make an investment in a foreign country and at the same time wanting to obtain residency/permanent  immigration of that country.

visit businessimmigrationvisa.com/ for details

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Aug 21, 2012 9:24 PM vk vk  says:
I must agree that wipro has a strict policy on these B1 visas. Before applying they (OOC) ask what is the purpose of the visit and they would not even file your visa , if you are going to work there. B1 visas are for business or training purpose, where you collect information at the clients place and come back and work from offshore. In our briefing , they ask what is the nature of visit and if the OOC department suspects if your are going for any work , then they will send a mail to senior management and the visa is not filed. No company wants this headace. Reply
Apr 28, 2013 3:32 PM Cali Cali  says: in response to HaveAJob4U
Where are you located Dubuque, Iowa? HAhahhaa Reply

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