How Nasscom Is Harming the Indian IT Industry

Don Tennant

The Indian IT trade association Nasscom exists to advance the interests of Indian IT companies and, by extension, those of Indian IT workers. In truth, this organization is setting those companies and workers up for failure in the United States, the market on which they've become so dependent for their success.

 

The problem is that rather than work to foster a cooperative relationship between the Indian IT industry and the U.S. government, Nasscom has inexplicably chosen to frame the U.S. government as an adversary. A recent example of this peculiar myopia came on Monday, when a Nasscom official blamed U.S. politics, lack of clarity, and "flawed logic" for the visa difficulties being confronted by the Indian IT industry in general, and especially by Infosys, the subject of an ongoing federal criminal investigation of the immigration fraud reported by Infosys employee and whistleblower, Jay Palmer.

 

The comments, made by Nasscom Vice President Ameet Nivsarkar, were reported by The Indian Express, a Mumbai-based media outlet. Here's some of what Nivsarkar had to say:

Nasscom is concerned over recent investigation in the U.S. involving some Indian companies. However, we need to understand that the parameters governing H1B/L1 visas are not clearly defined. Indian industry has added significantly to the U.S. competitiveness and have been good citizens, contributing to social security, local taxes, creating local employment, and contributing to the community. Nasscom is working with the governments, administration, policy makers to find ways that can help mitigate the impact upon the IT industry of visa restrictions, often based on flawed logic. The election-related rhetoric has historically targeted the [Indian IT] industry; this is not a new phenomenon.

No doubt, some of what Nivsarkar says is absolutely true. I've written extensively over the years in support of U.S. immigration policies that have enabled talented workers from India and other countries to bring their valuable social and economic contributions to this country. I continue to be a steadfast supporter of policies that benefit the world as a whole, not just the United States or any single country, so I welcome with appreciation that global collaborative spirit.

 

But none of that can be allowed to mask or excuse the problems that desperately need to be fixed. To blame the U.S. government for creating the visa difficulties that the Indian IT industry is facing is nonsense. The U.S. government is finally clamping down on the visa abuse that has been rampant for years. In the case of Infosys, thanks largely to information provided by Jay Palmer, the government has collected a mountain of evidence of widespread criminal activity related to social security and taxes, the very areas Nivsarkar has chosen to cite in reference to the contributions of the Indian IT industry.

 


What Nasscom needs to accept is that the source of the problem is the violation of our laws, not our government's enforcement of them. And then it needs to do its job and truly advance the interests of its constituents. It needs to spearhead a campaign to educate the Indian IT industry and its workers about the importance of abiding by U.S. immigration and tax laws. When it learns of a federal probe of widespread violations of U.S. laws and regulations by an Indian company, it needs to get out of excuse-making and blame-shifting mode and investigate the root of the problem so it can help fix it.

 

Contending that the U.S. needs to change to enable the Indian IT industry to conduct business as usual does a tremendous disservice to Indian IT companies and workers. That's how Nasscom is setting them up for failure. Business as usual doesn't work anymore, and companies that try it in the future stand to pay an awfully heavy price. If Nasscom doubts that, I suggest it watch the Infosys case very, very closely.



Add Comment      Leave a comment on this blog post
May 22, 2012 1:04 AM Mark Mark  says: in response to Tom

I live and work in the Silicon Valley and I get the same feeling!

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May 22, 2012 1:13 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says: in response to Tom

Just a note that the Rutgers case involves an "Indian" who came to the US when he was 5. Easy to argue that his act is more reflective of the meanness exemplified by the American teenager than any Varna/caste mumbo-jumbo you want to dream up.

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May 22, 2012 1:46 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to Indian_H1B

"Easy to argue that his act is more reflective of the meanness exemplified by the American teenager than any Varna/caste mumbo-jumbo you want to dream up."

boy, THAT was a nice try....sounds like all of America owes HIM an apology! 

you've got the exact same attitude as his mom....wonder what you 2 have in common....hmmmm

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May 22, 2012 2:11 AM John80224 John80224  says:

Like him not, one glimmer of hope I had with Obama that has been truly rare (and I've not seen since) was shortly after taking office and bailing out the "too big to fails", he announced outrageous bonuses paid from bailout money would be taxed at 90%.  Effective or not, ham-handed or not, it was about the only time I can remember an attempt at swift action when the spirit of the law had been circumvented even if the wording didn't spell it out.

I extremely doubt NASSCOM's leadership has reached where they are by being as stupid or ignorant as their attempts to sound innocent appear.  Their words are big company speak for, "Of freaking course we're guilty in the spirit of the law, but it's been a good run and we'll find other ways to mitigate the damage and circumvent."

The cynic in me fights this hopeful feeling that momentum will continue toward finally cleaning up the business sector that is most abusive of temporary visas.

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May 22, 2012 2:38 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to Tom

Bringing up the court incident regarding the Rutger's case and generalizing that with a whole population is pointless and hints to some other bias. For every case of disrespect during court, you can bring up a couple more by fellow Americans. Just watch Judge Judy.

BTW the 30 days sentencing + probation and fine is appropriate in light of the evidence of what actually happened: www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/may/22/justice-dharun-ravi-lenient-30-day-sentence

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May 22, 2012 3:10 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says: in response to George Alexander

Note my observation above of "racists and sore losers" about Don's followers. Making a case to such guys is metaphorically akin to the Monster.com ads where the lone human is trying to make professional sense to a bunch of monkeys.

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May 22, 2012 3:14 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to George Alexander

"For every case of disrespect during court, you can bring up a couple more by fellow Americans. Just watch Judge Judy."

some helpful definitions for you:

court/krt/Noun: A tribunal presided over by a judge, judges, or a magistrate in civil and criminal cases.

reality tv:Web definitions: Reality television is a genre of television programming that presents purportedly unscripted dramatic or humorous situations, documents...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_tv

you might make a note of the difference

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May 22, 2012 4:17 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to Tom

So what? A court that records its proceedings on video camera and a court that does not record its proceedings on a video cameria is still a court even if people like judge Sheindlin and defendents have managed to make a joke out of it. You don't seem like someone who can see beyond your own prejudices and hypocrisy in the face of ingrown culture turning courts, law enforcement and even war into entertainment.

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May 22, 2012 7:14 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to George Alexander

if you can't understand the difference between court and reality tv, there's really very little I can do to enlighten you

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May 22, 2012 8:19 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to Tom

Neither is there really very little you can do if you try to tell excuses like that to the plaintiffs and defendents for whom the court's verdict is legally binding.

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May 22, 2012 8:30 AM srini srini  says:

Did Infosys screw it up for every one? This is more political than it appears to be ..

gluelike.blogspot.com/2012/02/what-would-be-facebooks-jump-shark.html

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May 22, 2012 10:41 AM Tom Tom  says:

I think it's just Indian culture, at least of the Brahmin Varna Caste.

The Rutgers student from India who had a hidden webcam on his roommate was sentenced yesterday.  He had turned down a suspended sentence, got a slap on the wrist of 30 days in jail, showned no remorse, refused to stand for the judge when sentenced, and vowed to appeal the slap on the wrist.  There will be no deportation.

His mother gave a loud pityful statement, suggesting that HE is the 'real victim', when it would have been better to just remain silent.

There is an attitude among Indians that they are entitled to come here, and do anything they want, with no accountability to anyone, it shows in Infysys, it shows in the H-1b abuse, and it showed in the Rutgers student trial.  The refusal to stand when asked by the court pretty much sums up the attitude of Indians here.  Raw contempt of our society, laws and people - all exist to be used as they please.

NASSCOM is just being who they are - anyone who says 'no' to them is the faintest voice is the enemy.

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May 22, 2012 11:06 AM Tom Tom  says:

I think this issue also highlights how schizophrenic our mainstream media is (present media excepted), endlessly gushing over new billionaires in their 20s who just copied 'MySpace', while in the very same week as the facebook IPO suggesting that a highly skilled applicants in their 40s who wants a middle class wage are 'greedy and lazy', and therefor there is a 'shortage of qualified labor' (a citizen who wants a middle class tech wage doesn't count as 'available')

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May 22, 2012 11:10 AM George Alexander George Alexander  says:

NASSCOM should be considered as a lobby group paid for by the Indian IT Services companies so they need to be considered as nothing but an extension of companies like Infosys, Wipro, TCS etc hence, you hear them speak in similar fashion. NASSCOM lobbies the Indian government for concessions to these companies and at the same times, lobbies in the US and other countries on behalf of these companies. There should be no surprises in their statements or activitities as they are paid for directly by these companies. I'm not saying that all they've done is bad. They've done some stuff that's had a positive effect on the Indian IT industry and insulated ill feelings towards the outsourcing industry by propping up the benefits. I'm just saying that when it comes to the interests of these companies, they will say stuff inspite of how irrational it sounds (eg, these comments on the immigration issue) and therefore loose any credibilty they might have.

Please read  "The Coalition of Competitors" by Kiran Karnik who was the  former president of NASSCOM until recently. In it he writes how Nasscom used its PR skills to create an image of Indian software genius and how it influenced government policy and journalism to favor the Indian software industry.

They are the NRA of the software industry in India. That's about it.

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May 22, 2012 11:14 AM SVEngineer SVEngineer  says: in response to Indian_H1B

He might come here when he was 5, but he still spent most of his time at home with his parents and learned from them the Varma/caste attitude.

Their testimonies yesterday were deplorable.   The father accused the American judicial system of being unfair to his son.   

He said, "Our judicial system advocates "Presumption of Innocence."    He forgot to mention the 2nd part, "Until Proven Guilty."    It has been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and the jury has come to the same conclusion by declaring Dharun guilty of 15 counts.      He also said "Dharun, on Sept 2010, was 18 and not a fully grown adult at that time."    Give me a break!    At 18, you are LEGALLY an adult, you can vote, can drink and join the army to fight.     He is an adult, he should take responsibility for his action.

The mother was also pathetic, she was blaming the victim while extolling the virtues of her criminal son -- "he was a gifted student attending prestigious program at John Hopkins University."    Who cares?   Now that he is guilty, try to apply to John Hopkins and see what they say.

Their son was obviously wrong and they put the blame on other people instead of admitting of their wrong and say sorry.     I see exactly the same attitude from my Indian workers at work.    When something goes wrong, it's ALWAYS the other people who are at fault.      Typical Indian behavior

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May 22, 2012 11:45 AM Jobs4US Jobs4US  says:

How about this for a sequel? 

How Nasscom Is Harming the American IT Profession and US IT Industry

Learn how the Indian trade association and its members, Microsoft,  and other greedy corporations successfully continue to destroy the careers and and lives of American IT pros and their families. 

Despite unrelenting US unemployment, these organizations continue to game the system and exploit loopholes in US Visa law to advance their labor arbitrage agenda.

These corporate criminals, including convicted felon Jack Abramoff,  successfully rip and replace American IT careers by $$influencing$$ US politicians and mainstream media to perpetuate the "big lie" - the fictional lack of qualified American talent..

Their goal, rip and replace American tech talent and replace with younger, cheaper, and pliant foreign, indentured servants.  These foreign visa workers fail to see, act, or report the fraud surrounding them due to sense of entitlement, lack of knowledge and/or interest, and fear of being deported.

Thank you Nasscom and your band of bandits for creating the best US political and legal system money can buy.

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May 22, 2012 12:15 PM D.K.Bose D.K.Bose  says:

NASSCOM is very correct in stating "the parameters governing H1B/L1 visas are not clearly defined." 

We will have to understand that these immigration laws are manmade and politically driven. They are not inherited from the nature and should not be considered as the facts. Its high time someone should change them or at least make them unambiguous. If all major companies are accused with some kind of visa violation then I believe the visa policies are incorrect and not the companies. Example if you post the max allowed speed in a freeway as 25mph for 10 miles and expect all vehicles to maintain that speed then that is not going to happen.

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May 22, 2012 12:24 PM Tom Tom  says:

Part of me doesn't blame the Indian attitude here, though.  They come from a hoeplessly corrupt society, Hillary Clinton has been sucking up to them for YEARS

"Washington May 18th - "I am delighted to be the Senator from Punjab as well as from New York" said Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and the former first lady of the United States of America. She received a standing ovation and thunderous applause from the Sikh Americans who had gathered in the Senate side of the Capitol Hill on May 17th for the Sikh American Heritage Dinner Event in Washington, DC. The Sikh Council on Religion and Education (SCORE), based in the nation's capital organized this event."

www.sikhcouncilusa.org/article.aspx?article=evtdinner

"Joining Tata Consultancy's chief executive at a downtown hotel, Clinton announced that the company would open a software development office in Buffalo and form a research partnership with a local university. "

articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/30/nation/na-buffalo30

She used a corporate jet from a rich indian

"

 

On Wednesday, Hillary Clinton was challenged by the press about the Clinton family's acceptance of more than $900,000 in free private travel from InfoUSA, a company linked to scamming the elderly....

And it's not like the Clintons couldn't afford to buy an air ticket - the family income since 2001 has been more than $63 million! So why do they have to freeload from rich friends?

Since 2001, InfoUSA has paid Bill Clinton $3.3 million, although it's not at all clear what he was supposed to do for the money - other than fly on the company's jet for vacations and golf games with InfoUSA's CEO. InfoUSA CEO, Vin Gupta, has made the InfoUSA corporate jet available for the Clintons to travel in style to Hawaii, Switzerland and Jamaica - at a cost of more that $900,000.

Read more: www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,277058,00.html#ixzz1vcG8hy00

why wouldnt indians view the clintons as 'indian royalty' and the average American as 'lower caste' when our secretary of state and former president are so firmly in their pockets?  It all adds up.  I want to throw up when I see how 3rd world this queen of sheeba has made American life for people like me

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May 22, 2012 12:39 PM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says:

With your recent choice of columns, you're just opening the doors for India-bashing, Don. A blogger/columnist is judged by the quality of commenters they assemble and your particular ilk is a sorry assemblage of racists and sore losers.

The US immigration system is dystopia of the most extreme order. I personally find bodyshopping deplorable, but immigration and visa rules are so nebulous, and their implementation so ham-fisted, that there will be absolutely nothing to prove Infosys or Nasscom a villain.

You appear to be in the hunt for a cause with a clear villain and a clear victim. You may want to study the USCIS. It does great disservice to Americans and non-Americans in the US alike.

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May 22, 2012 12:43 PM reader reader  says: in response to Indian_H1B

Yes that is true but look at the blogs he wrote on other non Indian issues, nobody hardly read them forget about commenting. Remember a blogger gets paid by the number of vists to his/her blog and not by the content. Don is doing what is good for his pocket.

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May 22, 2012 12:46 PM George Alexander George Alexander  says: in response to D.K.Bose

>>NASSCOM is very correct in stating "the parameters governing H1B/L1 visas are not clearly defined." 

Give me a break.  Please "clearly define" what part of the visa laws are "ambigous" for you before making a generic statement like that? Proves that you are looking for a loop hole like all white collar crooks do.

And what part of "speed limit" don't you understand? You should retake your written exam for driver's license in the interest of public safety and if not that, atleast to avoid getting a speeding ticket.

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May 23, 2012 1:41 AM Y Netanyahu Y Netanyahu  says:

Indians (by and large) haven't understood the IT as industry and Software as engineering. Indian companies sees IT industry as another labour intensive industry where companies supply labour/ resources and get the money as per head count. The emphasis is not on what is delivered but how many have delivered. This is very much evident by the fact that the promotions, salary hikes  from TL level and above of how much they helped in generating revenue and not on the technical capabilities. Senior technical people are either forced to work for 3-4 junior level developers or shift to management side and do job of resource management which a receptionist can do lot better. I have seen profile of one Senior Project Manager from Infosys who also gets marketted as Senior Architect in SOA, Senior Architect Portal and can't do even a thing right be it technical or mangerial.

As for the Software eningerring, techinical people are required to continously upgrade themseleves atleast in the techonology they are working in. They have to have hands on expereince for good number of years. In majority of the companies, people do coding hardly till 6-7 years. That's the time when you start learning. Today's time require technical people with wide skill sets and indepth understanding of few core technologies. The focus of Indian IT companies is nowhere near that. They have more number of Managers (read resource managers and not technical managers) then technical people.

The objective of NASSCOM is concentrated around how to get more and more money by hook and crook. This kind of mafia mindset and lobbying would have worked for clients in Indian Subcontinent but very hard for clients in West.Indian IT companies (like infosys) are not going to be there in game after few years.

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May 23, 2012 2:37 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to Y Netanyahu

y netanyahu, i have heard essentially that arguement privately from someone I know fairly high up in IT management, that management overall is trapped in a dollar per hour mindset that is often counterproductive.

I've never fully bought into the 'you get what you pay for' cliche, because sometimes you dont.  There is such a thing as overpaying.  But anyone who's ever spent any time in IT knows that there is a massive difference between really good IT people vs medocre/poor ones, regardless of their rate or nationality.

A good team can get things done in way fewer hours, not just by being faster, but from having the code 'tighter' and better designed, code with few bugs and is well laid out for maintenance and future enhancement.  Systems that are just plain better designed to fit the business.  Garbage code is nearly always longer.  And a good IT person can sometimes see why an entire project or sub-project isn't even necessary, or can be done an easier simpler way.  Every seasoned IT person has seen examples of that, I know I have.

But this person in management acknowledged that common IT management IT metrics really don't measure these issues well, so they just default to cheapest dollar per hour, even though more astute managers know this is a flawed metric when it is the sole metric.  I think there are more than a few astute managers who question whether outsourcing saves any money at all, when everything is taken into account, accuracy and communication in particular as well as the extra layers of management of the process and profoundly expensive travel expenses. 

An example of a less complex process than core IT that has been outsourced, is help desk/call centers.  Has anyone here ever met anyone who thought they got better service from an Indian outsourced call center?  Why would these issues not be present in more complex core IT that is outsourced?

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May 23, 2012 4:06 AM John80224 John80224  says: in response to kiprn

As to cribbing about salaray, I agree in part: competition does drive salary.  When your government is importing your competition rather than your complement, the line has been crossed.

As to what you've seen, conversely a potential component is that as an H1, there is a very real possibility that your projects began after the heads already rolled for cost cutting.  As a citizen, I've been on the other side and seen hundreds of people laid off at a time followed by dozens of predominantly Indian replacements and similarly skewed outsourcing companies filling the company's self-induced void.  I've also seen job searches rarely find compatable large companies despite having mainstream, current skills and living in a decent sized city.

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May 23, 2012 4:20 AM Sam Sam  says: in response to jake_leone

I agree.. cannot make a blanket statement that Americans are lazy.. I am L1B visa holder from India and have seen Americans working as hard as I do or other Indians.. Infact they are more honest and hardworking than us.. Indians slog.. Americans work !

I asked my American colleagues why do they need to work so hard- they fear job loss .. not that they dont love the 'work life balance' concept that everyone dreams of.

Blaming corporations, Politicians will only help vent out.. nothing changes.

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May 23, 2012 5:08 AM PG PG  says: in response to Tom

I am an Indian, worked in IT industry  for 15 years with flying colors. Now unable to work in my current job because brief experience with Infosys. I performed well at Infosys and performed when their teams failed, but that proved to be curse than a reward. I left Infosys  few months back. The required skills ot be in Infosys:

1.) Skillful in cheating resources for getting them into project.

2.) Enforcing resources to continue in the project by means of threats or deceptions or false commitments.

3.) Should be good in mentally torchuring resources so that they can't survive to any other project leave or any other company.

4.) Sycophant to client is must, but should be able to bill resources who have moved out of the company or use T&M resources for other clients.

5.) Should be unethical enough to assign and do jobs like "mess up work of other vendors".

6.) Should have cheap junior resources to humilate seniors technical team members as they are the ones who are getting job outside and leaving Infosys.

Completely down and out. Disappointed to be in IT career, disappointed to be born as Indian, disappointed to see as how openly any company can be so open in cheating, practising morally untoward behaviour. Atleast there is no business sense to it. They are screwing up anyone they can get their hands on.

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May 23, 2012 5:49 AM DrGeneNelson DrGeneNelson  says:

If you were an American citizen whose technology-based position has been offshored or outsourced, would you advise your children to enter the same field? I encouraged my children to enter different fields that are not subject to a government-facilitated foreign hiring preference program like H-1B.  The economic elites that foisted the H-1B and similar work visas on the American middle class have determined that "innovation" is a convenient smokescreen. The reality is that these work visas are focused on near-term cost avoidance. While the economic benefits of H-1B visas are largely privatized, the costs are socialized. The way it typically plays out is that an experienced American citizen technical professional is forced to train their younger H-1B Visa replacement as a condition of receiving their meager outplacement benefit. The American is also prevented from going to the media about their shabby treatment by a nondisclosure agreement they are also forced to sign. The experienced American later finds that there are few technology positions for experienced workers, so they are forced to take a job that makes scant use of their training or experience.

Professor Norm Matloff summarized this process as a historically unprecedented "internal brain drain" that is facilitated by the H-1B Visa.  Millions of American families have been harmed since corporate America created the H-1B Visa in 1990. To learn about the over 37 million visa admissions between 1975-2010 in just 5 high-skill work visa programs, please search by title for the PDF version of a new report, "How Record Immigration Levels Robbed American High-Tech Workers of $10 Trillion." This report uses actual visa admissions data to substantiate its claims. Political corruption has played a significant role in the establishment and growth of this harmful program. The corruption is also summarized in the report. To improve American innovation and competitiveness, these "government subsidy" (the words of Nobel economics laureate Milton Friedman) programs should be immediately terminated.

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May 23, 2012 7:20 AM Jacktheripper Jacktheripper  says: in response to Tom

A website with articles that portray Indians as villains should definitely see some xenophobes and a lot of bile in the name of comments, but this really is the most absurd thing that I have ever read on the internet.  The Rutgers student was brought up in NJ and is probably more Amercian than Indian.  To link any kind of criminal activity to Indian culture or Indians is just plain ridiculous.  Are we to think that there are no criminals in the US and every crime there is representative of an average American?  Don, you have to scrutinize some of these comments.  Some of them are plain offensive and downright rubbish. 

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May 23, 2012 7:32 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to PG

5.) Should be unethical enough to assign and do jobs like "mess up work of other vendors".

If you can provide actual proof of this to the other vendors, I think there may be grounds for criminal and civil cases  filed against Infosys for destruction of infrastructure. This is a serious charge that would bring in law enforcement directly.

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May 23, 2012 7:51 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to PG

PG, I appreciate your candor

and in fairness to Indian firms, items 1, 2 and 3 in particular are hardly exclusive to them, I've seen the exact same thing from white citizens before the Indian firms came in.  But before there were so many immigrants in the field, firms that did that got a deservedly bad reputation, and eventually had a hard time getting good people (that's the way a true free market is supposed to work)

I will also say that I have known a few decent Indians who were both good workers and persons, one in particular was a good co-worker.

The flood of labor gave all IT firms the upper hand on workers, and made the worst practices of the worst firms nrearly the standard for all, making it a chrun and burnout 'profession' that leaves people who've been dedicated for 15 years as you've said, feeling 'completely down and out'

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May 23, 2012 8:03 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to Jacktheripper

normally Don will keep such comments for some time so that there is more controversy,more comments...in short more page views and then finally deletes a few of them, which he doesn't like.

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May 23, 2012 8:19 AM ITJob ITJob  says: in response to Jacktheripper

No scrutiny should be expected if there is offensive or racial comments about Indians/India, such comments fit what Don agrees or believes. Also such comments in general increases visitors which in turn increases Don's bank balance.

While people play mud sling Don laughs at his bank account at the cost of others time and energy...perfect example of corporate america culture :P.

If you don't like such comments better don't visit this blog because it is not required for you to read his blog.

PS: This comment will be removed for sure :P

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May 23, 2012 10:18 AM Indian_H1B Indian_H1B  says: in response to SVEngineer

You finished with "Typical Indian behavior". That makes you a racist. Your life is wasted.

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May 23, 2012 10:21 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to Jacktheripper

so, 'jacktheripper' defends the rutgers kid.  that leaves me without words, other than to note your use of the term 'downright rubbish' is far more common in Indian speech, than American.

the pattern of shamelessness continues....

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May 23, 2012 10:32 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to Tom

but back to the issue of Mr and Mrs Clinton, this couple who so shamelessley sell out our own citizens are served by brave men and women who quite literally give life and limb in carrying our their orders.

I saw a young person yesterday with a military fatigue shirt and hat, and an artificial foot.  It bothered me when I was a kid and saw men with things like that, it bothers me far more now that I see younger people with it

It infuriates me that our leaders devalue citizenship while living large on foreign bribes (that they dont even need to live in luxury) and being served by such honorable people who give so much

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May 23, 2012 10:40 AM Wagner Wagner  says: in response to D.K.Bose

What a logic!! How you can be so open in cheating, frauds and then justify it. Leaves me speechless.

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May 23, 2012 11:08 AM Bobby Bobby  says:

By and large this company is not even favoured by Indians, unless and untill you are DM, PM from the alike organizations.

Copy past from one of the blog

toostep.com/insight/an-employee-reviews-infosys-technologies

Sanjay Top Comment : SB DIKSHIT   | undefined

HR policies of Infosys Technologies are full of money minded,for saving money they even snatch the life 0f many employee ,one latest example is of may-2009,for shifting of 43 software staff from Mysore (after training)to place of posting Poona,as per provisions Rs.5000/- per head is admissible ,within this cost they could have shifted by air flight,but shifted them by whole night bus,thus saving was of huge amount,It was known to them that heavy rainfall is there on the way and have to go via ghats,bus toppled down after it touched on turn to a divider,5 software engineer quite young were died rather butchered.I am well known of all facts because one of among five was son of my real sister in law.

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May 23, 2012 11:16 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to SVEngineer

SVEngineer, the parent's testimony stunk of an attitude all too familiar, to those who've spent any time around it, and yes, it does relate to this story, it's exactly NASSCOM's attitude, the explanation of why they are so arrogant, even to the point of being counterproductive

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May 23, 2012 11:25 AM Dick Dick  says: in response to Tom

" Has anyone here ever met anyone who thought they got better service from an Indian outsourced call center?"

Did you ever met anyone who got worse service from an Indian outsources call center? If yes how much? If they cost cheaper than your stupid bartender, tatoo artists and plumbers out here, it is more than enough.

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May 23, 2012 11:30 AM jake_leone jake_leone  says:

Why can't Indian IT companies stop discriminating against U.S. citizens? 

Why are open and massive bigotted hiring practices, employment discrimination, on the job discrimination even tolerated from companies that depend on U.S. visas for more than half their earnings?

Yesterday I read an article stating that immigrants work harder than U.S. citizens.  Even Bloomberg is buying in to this completely racist statement.

Mr. Bloomberg should know, that I am a U.S. citizen, and have many times worked 2 and sometimes 3 jobs.  It isn't pretty driving down 880 drowsy, let me tell you right now. 

I am sick of the constant lie that is being told that U.S. citizens do not work hard, or are not qualified for positions.  This is a sick racist lie, perpetrated by industry propaganda.  It has no relation to the reality and the truth.

Perpetrating such a lie, is the same as the road the Nazis paved to the holocaust.  Or that Southern slave owners used to justify their brutality.

And we all need to stand up to it where ever it occurs.

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May 23, 2012 11:35 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says:

The United States has finally, after decades of a wild-west attitude, placed a few speed-bumps in the way to address fraud and abuse that is massive in scale. 

Indian business interests have been kicking and screaming ever since, even making threats to file complaints with the WTO.  Their attitude has not been one of problem solvers, rather obstructionists.  Instead of solutions the result to threats, rhetoric, political spin, and employ ment of lobbyists to do their dirty work. 

What it amounts to is that they do not want to solve the problem.  They want to carry on, business as usual.  Their strategy isn't real change, just an increase in their political and legal maneuvering.  They should be ashamed, but truth is they have no shame.

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May 23, 2012 12:54 PM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to SVEngineer
these so called consulting companies are pure body shops. So now, even though that person was not competent, he would still be working in another company. There is no dearth of such people (incompetent H1 workers or American workers). So no point in cribbing about it. Have client interviews to sort out these issues upfront.Anytime, these large offshoring companies provides people in staff aug mode, that also should not be allowed. If they have won a bid for a project or have a contract for performing the support of application and then are providing an team, that should be acceptable. But as a H1 worker, you are expected to be supervised by your employer and not by the client. So in such cases, these should be treated as body shopping by the clients. So I would suggest that the American companies be equally responsible for any misdoings happening on the VISA. They cannot wash off their Reply
May 23, 2012 12:55 PM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to SVEngineer

Tom, SVEngineer and Indian_H1B - this blog is about Nasscom's role in harming the IT industry.You folks can join a chat room and have whatever discussion you want.Whether you want to blame it on Brahmin caste or evolution of world, its left up to your.But please clear out from here.

Coming back to the topic - what Nasscom is saying is not going fly in any case though some part of it might be truthful.

contributing to social security, local taxes - correct

creating local employment - give me a break

"If its not a new phenomenon" as per Nasscom, then why comment on it now and why raise it as an issue now?Why did not they raise it earlier?What was stopping them from doing it?

I have the same questions to people who have moved out of Infosys and now say "this is what was followed".."this is what has happened"...what were you doing when you were part of that group?You happily were part of that business, got the benefits and then moved out, when you were no longer benefitting from it.So how is your behaviour any different from those high level managers who knowingly created such frauds or from those banks who knowingly lent money to people who they knew would not be able to afford it?

My view is that the visa regulations needs to undergo a thorough review.Each country or state should first try to protect its own citizens first and then the corporations.

If some one is arguing that VISA rejection rates have gone up without any changes to regulations - probably its due to the fact that the immigration department might have gained some efficiency and are actually validating the VISA applications.There could be a genuine issue if they are purposely rejecting the VISA of Indian workers.But as long as its substantiated and explained on why the rejection has happened, I think it should be acceptable.

Many people try to fake their resume and experience.So you cannot truly say who is genuine and who is not.So for US clients, its best to have individual interviews before they approve any offshore company worker for H1.I dont think US companies want to get involved at this level.That's why I find them as guilty as these major outsourcing companies which are being accused of fraud.

Next is enforce the min payment structure for both H1 and L1.This would ensure that companies take a second look at their hiring or H1 policy or hire locally as much as possible.American tech workers need to accept that in a global economy, competition will be present from citizen each and every country.This will impact their salary, but instead of cribbing, gear up and try to beat the climate.If you still expect to get paid just because you are counting on your years of experience doing same old stuff, dont crib about it, if your company offshores that work for lesser cost.Today it might be Indian workers, tomorrow you will to face some other country.

I have worked for 10 years in this industry now and I can gladly say that I have never seen a worker being fired in the project(I was working on) due to just cost issues nor have I replaced anyone.I have seen 2 instances were they were let go because they were plain incompetent.But talented workers were never given up by any of these client companies.At the same time, I have seen people build up dependency just keep their job security.Not doing any knowledge sharing, and not gaining any new knowledge, just doing the same process manually for years, when that could have been automated and completed in mins. Reply

May 23, 2012 12:55 PM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to SVEngineer
So if you work with this mentality, be prepared for rough times.I as H1 worker know that I am temporary and will go back when my project is completed.But there will be many who will try to cling on by hook or crook and that is also what is leading to a big part of the mess.I have also seen cases where my colleagues(H1) were asked to go back because they were not performing upto standards of the client, but they gladly hopped and joined a consultancy or another offshoring company.Many of these so called consulting companies are pure body shops.So now, even though that person was not competent, he would still be working in another company.There is no dearth of such people (incompetent H1 workers or American workers).So no point in cribbing about it.Have client interviews to sort out these issues upfront.

Anytime, these large offshoring companies provides people in staff aug mode, that also should not be allowed.If they have won a bid for a project or have a contract for performing the support of application and then are providing an team, that should be acceptable.But as a H1 worker, you are expected to be supervised by your employer and not by the client.So in such cases, these should be treated as body shopping by the clients.So I would suggest that the American companies be equally responsible for any misdoings happening on the VISA.They cannot wash off their hands.

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May 24, 2012 7:06 AM sam sam  says:

This country lacks common sense a lot and the price they pay for it is disaster in every area you look.

Law makers are out of touch and they never ever look back at any stupid laws affecting citizens.

Mid size companies spend most of their time worrying about liabilities whereas larger (too big to fail) throws $$$ to cover up their missteps and least bothered about any law...best example is Morgan Stanley on FB IPO. After several failures in banking sector which got this country to brink still they could behave like teenagers is what makes this country looks like managed by clowns. But clowns here try to blame it on x or y or Z by putting their head in sand.

Lawmakers are the key person who can stop anything...if they are not fixed no matter what nothing can be fixed.

GOD bless America.

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May 24, 2012 8:39 AM Jobs4US Jobs4US  says: in response to jake_leone

Bravo, well said, I'm with you.

I have no idea how such atrocious lies about American talent began, and more disturbing, don't understand why they continue.

It's despicable that the VP, President, and Congress buy into this bs. There's got to be more to the story.   How much money are these sneaky SOBs (both US and outside the US) paying to "officials" to allow these lies to foster?

Is there anyone in a position of authority who is interested in helping us stop this cancer, sooner not later?   Politicians, greedy billionaires, corporate execs and foreign interests are all in this together.

What's it going to take?  Occupy, the National Guard (and all the vets who can't get jobs because of this)? Is there anyone in the media or leadership with a conscience who can help us stop the hostile takeover of the USA?

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May 24, 2012 8:41 AM Jobs4US Jobs4US  says: in response to PG

It's just like that at Microsoft too

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May 24, 2012 10:26 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to Jobs4US

"It's despicable that the VP, President, and Congress buy into this bs"

they do not 'buy' into this, they 'sell' into this

search this page for my comments about hillary clinton.  what do you expect when our secretary of state borrowed a corporate jet from a rich guy from india for her vacations, to the tune of $900,000 worth?

if you are given nearly a million dollars worth jet services, then you favor the person who gave it to you over the people you are sworn to protect, that isnt 'ignorance', it's CORRUPTION.  there's no 'misunderstanding' whatsoever.  she uses the jet, in exchange for selling out her people.  she understands it PERFECTLY.  all who sell out are despicable, but she's among the worst

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May 24, 2012 11:35 AM mat mat  says: in response to PG

perfect. i couldn't have said it better

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May 24, 2012 11:50 AM Vikram Vikram  says: in response to Jobs4US

I have been working in IT industry for over 10 years. I have worked in different Geographicies, seen ups and downs in my careers. I have also faced few company issues in the past but must nothing as severe as Infosys. One needs to experience it to believe it.  Infosys can't be allowed to carry on its unethical practises just because other also practise the same. Atleast, people in the open market should be aware of this trap. I have worked with other Indian companies. Nowhere but in Infosys, it happens that DM is ask only onsite resource to move to someother client just a week before critical release. Nowhere but in Infosys, fake billing is practised. Nowhere but in Infosys, BU heads on this kind of mess replies "so what's the issue?". Nowhere but in Infosys, people with niche skillsets are duped into co-ordination work and harassed so that they can't work for the other business units. I can go on forever. I have witnessed in other companies (which are competitors of Infosys), General Managers, Directors, Project Managers getting fired for unethical and immoral behaviour. There is basic code of conduct and discipline, which is not there in Infosys.

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May 24, 2012 12:22 PM Indian Indian  says: in response to Dick

This is very poor justification for being cheap. You have to be bit logical. Remember, Indian IT industry is not in condition to dictate terms. We have the outsourcing because we are cheap and large English speaking population, and not because of any specialized knowledge. China and other Eastern European countries have done changes in their education system to enable it's new generation to learn English right from early age. It will be very much convenient for Western countries like US to outsources their work to country like Hungary rather than India. Apart from being cost effective, people are relatively fair in game. Once that is done Indian IT is over and the time is not far away.

Unfortunately, IT people in India lacks farsightedness. General mindset of CEOs is  to make money in turns and run away. That's is why people refuse to face the reality and bring up excuses which make no sense.

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May 25, 2012 2:57 AM jobs4US jobs4US  says: in response to Tom

Yup.  USA, the best government money can buy.

Any coincidence that the first state dinner was for India?  Maybe the "uninvited guests" were a decoy, pay no attention to $$$ Nasscom and USINPAC left behind the curtain.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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May 25, 2012 6:15 AM GuptaCase GuptaCase  says:

(This is not directly related to IT business but may be relevant peripherally. So if Don chooses to delete it, I will not complain).

Rajat Gupta's case is getting a lot of interest:

blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/05/24/guptas-busy-day/

Infosys's Narayana Murthy was all praise for Gupta earlier:

businesstoday.intoday.in/story/change-agent/1/160.html

Murthy's name is conspicously absent from  friendsofrajat.com/ probably because he wants to stay clear of reputation problems, or because he believes Gupta is guilty.

Which ? I wish Murthy would answer that !

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May 25, 2012 12:07 PM Vikram Vikram  says: in response to PG

I can understand your pain. For sometime, I had been through the same thing. But consider your self lucky that you were able to came out of it. I read in toostep blog about one 31 years old Infy employee who killed his 3 years old daugthers before killing himself. Reason,  too much harassment by TL and PMs. This news never got publshed in any media but in blog.

The mindset and culture of the company is more of flesh trade than a tech company. The company is not worth to be discussed and given any thought.

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May 25, 2012 12:13 PM Vikram Vikram  says: in response to Vikram

I was refering to this post. toostep.com/trends/another-suicide-by-infosys-employee

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May 25, 2012 12:16 PM Vikram Vikram  says: in response to Vikram

Google "Santosh Sarode Infosys". Don is not allowing me to paste the url.

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May 25, 2012 12:24 PM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Vikram

I'm not allowing you to paste in the URL? That's news to me. I have no idea what you're talking about.

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May 25, 2012 12:34 PM Vikram Vikram  says: in response to Don Tennant
May 25, 2012 12:36 PM Vikram Vikram  says: in response to Don Tennant

If I try to post the url in my comment I get the following message

"Your comment was posted successfully but will need to be approved by the administrator of this blog before it will appear. "

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May 26, 2012 1:36 AM Tom Tom  says: in response to LunaSol

I had a case that sure felt like sabatage years ago, although with good sabatoge, you can never really prove it.  Had a different (competing) firm review our architechture plan about 1/3rd through the project, was nervous going into it, was even more nervous afterward - it went too smooth - I wasn't all that experienced for the role I was in, but it felt wrong, like we were being set up

Sure enough going into the last 1/5th of the project, the same firm raised severe objections to our architechture plan, showstoppers that should have been raised much earlier, in the previous meeting mentioned above.  And the personal on that team did not seem 'bumbling', incompetant, or unconfident at either time.  They acted like they knew exactly what they were doing.

I can't prove it, it's just my read of the situation.  And it wasn't (then) known as an 'indian' firm.  (It still isnt today, although they are now heavy users of H-1b, like most firms are)

I won't say who the firm was, but every single one of you would recognise the name.

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May 26, 2012 11:42 AM LunaSol LunaSol  says: in response to PG

@PG :Should be unethical enough to assign and do jobs like "mess up work of other vendors".

Interesting.  As a PM on project using an off-shore company; we had a 30% defect rate during system testing.  I took it as incompetence; but, you mentioning deliberate intent to mess up is something that I did not consider. 

My back-out plan was to use on-site resources to catch us up; but, someone very high up in the client's organization shot that down and only allowed us to add more resources from the off-shore provider company.

The other thing the off-shore company continued to tell the client was  that they can do a better job when they can staff the whole project from PM to BA to Tech Leads to Developers.  This may point to intentionally messing up by stating the other vendors staff work was unclear and misleading. 

I escalated and provided a detailed timeline of the events and reported upwards.  The client ignored it for the most part and pretty much said "carry on" in so many words. Is the client representative getting kick-backs from the off-shore vendor?  An investigation should extend to some of the clients and or senior leadership who accept payment on the side to use these vendors.  Because I was able to show that I could use the on-site resources and stay within the proposed budget; but, I was still told to go off-shore to resource the development work.

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Oct 8, 2012 11:18 PM rk rk  says:
Great article depicting the reality/ But unfortunately, indians would never understand this. As people in india don't have time and patience and neither they want to accept the fact. Problem is that the indian IT industry have crippled the minds of indians. Reply

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