CBS Coverage of Infosys Story: One Step Closer to a Changed Game

Don Tennant

Earlier this morning, millions of people who had never heard of Jay Palmer, or of Infosys, for that matter, watched a riveting segment on "CBS This Morning" that no doubt left many of them wondering. They're wondering how Palmer was able to summon the courage to blow the whistle on the rampant visa fraud he discovered in the course of doing his job at Infosys, while others chose to remain silent. They're wondering how this company they're only now learning about could have had so much contempt for America's laws that it would willfully and flagrantly violate them in the course of generating ever-increasing profits from companies here. And they're wondering what's going to happen now.


For readers of this blog, CBS News senior correspondent John Miller's report finally attached a face and a voice to Palmer, this whistleblower they've been reading about for the past year whose story they know well, but only through second- or third-person accounts. "Jay Palmer" suddenly became a real person, a regular guy in a position any one of us might have found ourselves in, not just a label on a case that prompted a multi-agency federal criminal investigation of one of the largest and most influential IT services companies in the world.


For Infosys, Miller's piece presented yet another opportunity for it to do the right thing, an opportunity it blindly squandered, as it had so many others. It declined to make anyone available to speak with Miller on camera, and in one of its most shortsighted blunders to date - and there have been a lot of them - Infosys issued this statement to Miller in response to his request for a comment that he could include in his report:

As a global leader in consulting and technology, Infosys takes very seriously our obligations and responsibilities to comply with the immigration laws and visa requirements in the 30 countries of the world where we do business for our clients. This includes work with our clients in the United States.


Mr. Palmer's allegations may make for an interesting story. But the case that is now before the court isn't about a story. It's about facts, and the facts are clear and compelling:


  • There is not, nor was there ever a policy to use the B-1 visa program to circumvent the H-1B program;
  • Infosys did not have a practice of sending unskilled employees to the United States on B-1 visas to do the work expected of skilled workers on H-1B visas;
  • Mr. Palmer's complaints were handled in complete accordance with our published procedures for handling whistleblower complaints and in compliance with the law;
  • And we have not retaliated against Mr. Palmer in any way.

Any allegation or assertion that there is or was a corporate practice of evading the law in conjunction with the B-1 visa program is simply not accurate, and we will vigorously defend the company against any false allegation to that effect.

Miller asked Palmer for his response to that statement. Here's what he said:

This is the United States of America. If they want their day in court, let's let them have their day in court, and we can lay the compelling facts out and let a judge and a jury decide.

Then Miller asked him this question:

When this is all over, and it all comes out, where is Jay Palmer? Are you going to be able to work in this business again? Do you look like a hero, or are you the goat?

Palmer's response:

I don't know. You know, it's not about me. This story is about displaced American workers, and about companies out for greed.

That tells you everything you need to know about who Palmer is.


Thanks in large part to the cooperation of Palmer and his attorney, Kenny Mendelsohn, the feds are sitting on a mountain of incriminating evidence that outlines in explicit detail Infosys's corporate practice of evading the law in conjunction with the B-1 visa program. That Infosys would choose to taunt the feds on such a huge national stage bespeaks the cluelessness with which the company has dealt with this fiasco since the day 18 months and one day ago when Palmer blew the whistle. I can promise you this isn't going down well at all with the feds.


Many readers, jaded by the silence of the mainstream media, scoffed at my assurance that this day would come, just as they scoffed at the notion that Infosys will ever have to truly pay for its actions, and that a situation that has caused so many American families to suffer so much injustice will ever change. Now that this day has come, perhaps the idea that Palmer's case really is the "game changer" I said it was all those months ago will no longer seem quite so implausible.

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Apr 12, 2012 1:08 AM Hireamerican Hireamerican  says: in response to Andy

Don't kid yourself.....American companies are doing the same thing.....

Apr 12, 2012 1:38 AM Daniel Daniel  says: in response to Asian_H1B

Asian provocateur,  go back to your country and speak as freely as you do here, lets see how far you get.  Otherwise you have no voice as you speak in no interest of Americans or the truth; You sir are no American.

Apr 12, 2012 1:47 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to Daniel

To those who are new to this blog, be advised that comments must address the topic and must not include any kind of an insult or personal attack directed at any individual. Any comment that does include an insult or personal attack directed at any individual will be deleted.

Apr 12, 2012 2:06 AM D.K.Bose D.K.Bose  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don, you sure what you are speaking? just few comments above you I can read  -- "However, given the inherent nature of corrupt Indian society."

Apr 12, 2012 2:11 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to D.K.Bose

I'm not crazy about that comment, but it's not directed at an individual, and it's not what I would put into the category of hate speech. That's where I've drawn the line. My aim it to keep the forum as open as possible, so barring hate speech and attacks directed at individuals, I try to stay out of it.

Apr 12, 2012 2:13 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says:

"But the case that is now before the court isn't about a story", says Infosys.

Infosys and their lawyers apparently haven't realized that they are in a court of law AND the court of public opinion. So far, their side of the "story" is turning into a nightmare.

Infosys 4-point denial to the CBS news report presents a very easy target for the feds and Palmer's lawyer to knock down (another strategic blunder by Infosys).

For example, notice the cute word-smithing and use of the words "policy" and "practice" in Infosys denial. Most lawyers would write

"There is not, nor was there ever a [[policy or practice]] to use the B-1 visa program to circumvent the H-1B program"

as opposed to

"There is not, nor was there ever a [[policy]] to use the B-1 visa program to circumvent the H-1B program"

Infosys is saying that they have no written "policy" (at least that Palmer or the feds can find) but they definitely have a "practice" of using B-1 visas to circumvent the H-1B program.

Another example:

"Infosys did not have a practice of sending [[unskilled]] employees to the United States on B-1 visas to do the work expected of [[skilled]] workers on H-1B visas"

Infosys is trying to be cute by qualifying their denial by using the "unskilled" and "skilled" adjectives.

Infosys and their lawyers must believe that the feds, judge and jury will also be "stupid".

Apr 12, 2012 2:23 AM D.K.Bose D.K.Bose  says: in response to Don Tennant

Don, so is it ok to say-- "Given the greedy and dishonest nature of America society, I am not surprised that a foreign company is being made scapegoat"

This comment is also not directed to an individual and should not put into the category of hate speech.

Apr 12, 2012 2:25 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says: in response to Daniel

I come from a democracy which is irrelevant to the discussion here. I was pointing out a simple fact that in US, individuals don't get punished when the crime is committed through a corporation. They just pay fines and move on. There are already several convictions of visa violations of smaller body shops. This has never resulted in any arrests or any dent in the outsourcing industry. Deal with it, outsourcing and globalization are here to stay. Anyone who thinks Mr.Palmer's case is a game changer or going to blow out H1B visas is waiting for a huge disappointment when the verdict comes. Our lives will be a lot better if we start thinking on how we can compete and differentiate with a low cost workforce globally rather than asking the government to cover our backs.

Apr 12, 2012 2:33 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to D.K.Bose

That's correct. I would not put it in the category of hate speech, and I would not delete it.

Apr 12, 2012 2:34 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to D.K.Bose

I don't think that comment was anything that hasn't been discussed in the media for a while:

India slips three places in global corruption rankings

NEW DELHI: India has slipped to 87th spot in Transparency International's latest ranking of nations based on the level of corruption, with the global watchdog asserting that perceptions about corruption in the country increased in the wake of the scam-tainted Commonwealth Games.

Transparency International's 'Corruption Perception Index' report covering the public sector in 178 countries shows that India fell by three positions from its ranking of 84th in 2009.

Apr 12, 2012 2:38 AM buycheaper buycheaper  says:

Let's see

1. Americans ask cheap goods from Walmart.

2. Walmart decides to buy goods from China which is cheaper while its back office work and IT is sent to India through Infosys.

3. Now Walmart is able to do what they were asked at step 1 since their costs for material and labor is down.

Apr 12, 2012 2:39 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Asian_H1B

So I suppose the Federal Trade Commission and Securities & Exchange Commission that monitor fair business practices should be disbanded ? After all they are "covering the backs" of workers and investors by regulating what constitutes ethical business practices. Monopolies and insiders scams should all be allowed as "just business" ? Give me a break.

Apr 12, 2012 2:42 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to buycheaper

I don't think Americans ask for anything "cheaper". Walmart makes the decisions of what they want to pay for the production cost of an item. They then find someone who can make it for that cost. The customer gets what is put on the shelf.

Apr 12, 2012 2:43 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

Not so different from what we see in the US. Legalized corruption which is called lobbying. Want to change a law to favor your business ? set up a lobby group and fund a senator

Apr 12, 2012 2:45 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says:

After the airing of this CBS news story about Infosys' fraudulent use of visas, we can expect the paid public relation lobbyists and immigration lawyers (who desperately want to maintain the status quo) to be out in force in an attempt to distract attention away from the H-1B, L-1 and B-1 visa issues and to attack and disparage Palmer.

The paid public relation lobbyists and immigration lawyers will also desperately try to convince Americans that Palmer's and the feds' efforts are "futile".

Apr 12, 2012 2:47 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

I already agreed that it is likely the Infosys made a violation. I was only referring to the outcome of the case where USCIS or IRS is going to impose penalties and the case ends there. Nothing more is going to happen.

Apr 12, 2012 2:48 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to IAmNumber813

Anyone want to wager that the WSJ and Forbes release articles tomorrow that are pro H-1b?  I'll wager that Wadhwa gets something out, that NFAP is either quoted or perhaps even have their own editorial, and that they don't mention this case even once in all of their reporting.

Apr 12, 2012 2:49 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Asian_H1B

Oh I totally agree with you that lobbying is corruption with a fancy name. No doubt about that. So if you think about it, the Palmer case actually reveals how such corporate lobbying for cheap foreign workers has caused the situation we have now. So in effect you should defend his efforts against corruption just like Ana Hazare's efforts in India ....

Apr 12, 2012 2:52 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says: in response to D.K.Bose

What you said was fine, but Jay Palmer is not making Infosys a scapegoat.  He is seeking justice for himself and I believe that he was wronged and deserves justice.

If anyone is scapegoating Infosys and other Indian companies it is probably American sponsors of H-1b visas who want to pretend their noses are clean.

People like myself are saying openly that "it's not just Infosys".  American companies are also abusing the program.

Apr 12, 2012 2:55 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to R. Lawson

I have no doubt that as we speak the wheels of spin are grinding and the various shills are getting bonuses for ramping up their efforts. Wadhwa should be appearing on various business blogs and tv shows soon.

Apr 12, 2012 2:57 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says:

"Quite often individuals manage to evade prosecution for the crimes of the corporation.  However, that isn't always the case.  Don't assume that you are immune from criminal prosecution especially if some sort of conspiracy can be proven"

Interesting arguement Mr. Lawson but I will take it seriously if you can show some examples.

"More than likely, they settle and pay a fine."

Agreed. Realistic outcome.

"However, barring them from sponsorship is also going to be on the table."

Very unlikely. Not sure where you get that expectation from. There are several convicted smaller body shops which still sponsor H1B visas after 'putting' controls in place.

"The public is going to demand changes to the H-1b visa"

Yea, they have been complaining about outsourcing since 2000. It has only got bigger.

Apr 12, 2012 3:00 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to R. Lawson

Forbes already picked up on the CBS story with what appears to me to be an unbiased piece:

Apr 12, 2012 3:35 AM Roy Lawson Roy Lawson  says: in response to Don Tennant

And a few days ago they had another piece knocking the visa specific to offshore outsourcing firms.  After all these years...are they coming around? 

I rather enjoy calling them corporate whores.  I don't feel like my day has begun unless I have a cup of coffee, read any Forbes article, and yell "whores!".  Don't worry ladies, I work at home  

I doubt that their tune will change so there must be some angle here.  My guess is that the new angle is going to be "Indian companies bad, American companies good".  Well, at least they are siding with America for once

Seriously, this is a very rare thing for Forbes.  Full moon?

Apr 12, 2012 3:44 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says: in response to Asian_H1B

"....but I will take it seriously if you can show some examples"

Robert W. Moffat Jr. was the first in line to become chief executive officer (CEO) of IBM. Now he is a former IBM employee and a convict.

"Executive Is Sentenced in Galleon Case"

"A tearful former I.B.M. executive was sentenced to six months in prison Monday for his role in what prosecutors call the biggest hedge fund insider trading case in history."

"The executive, Robert W. Moffat Jr., was also ordered to pay a $50,000 fine by Judge Deborah A. Batts of Federal District Court after his guilty plea earlier this year to securities fraud and conspiracy to commit securities fraud."

This could easily be the outcome for some of Infosys' executives (especially for any federal tax evasion charges).

Apr 12, 2012 4:00 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says: in response to IAmNumber813

You fail to notice the difference. Cases where individuals are charged people go to jail whereas one against corporations no one goes to jail, just fines paid like this!story/Home/News/Goldman%20Sachs%20fined%20%2422%20million/id/19410615-5218-4f86-faf0-2dcec8052177

Apr 12, 2012 4:09 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says: in response to Asian_H1B

"Cases where individuals are charged people go to jail whereas one against corporations no one goes to jail."

Infosys and/or their corporate employees have not been criminally charged yet. Wait until that that plays out.

There are numerous cases where the corporate veil has been pierced and individual corporate employees have been criminally charged in the U.S. I'll leave that research as a homework assignment for you (hint: google).

Apr 12, 2012 4:11 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Don Tennant

This story  was linked off that Forbes article page:

India Factory Workers Revolt, Kill Company President

Workers at the Regency Ceramics factory in India raided the home of their boss, and beat him senseless with lead pipes after a wage dispute turned ugly.

The workers had been calling for higher pay and reinstatement of previously laid off workers since October.

Rather ironic I would say considering the posters supporting Infosys here are upset about Palmer standing up American workers in a very civilized fashion.

Apr 12, 2012 4:13 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says: in response to IAmNumber813

"Infosys and/or their corporate employees have not been criminally charged yet. Wait until that that plays out."

ok, you are giving me your wishlist.

"There are numerous cases where the corporate veil has been pierced and individual corporate employees have been criminally charged in the U.S. I'll leave that research as a homework assignment for you (hint: google)."

so you can't back what you claim.

Apr 12, 2012 4:20 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says:

Just FYI, (source CNN) the Infosys founder is one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time.

Apr 12, 2012 4:26 AM hoapres hoapres  says:

Nothing is going to change.

In a couple of hours the story gets buried and the invasion of the job snatchers, H1B infestation, etc. continues onward.

Palmer is permanently ostracized and those Indians complaining about Infosys are sent back to India and never heard from again.  They are told to keep their mouth shut or they and their families will pay the price,

Apr 12, 2012 4:28 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says: in response to Asian_H1B

"so you can't back what you claim" ??????

I understand that you are probably an Infosys and/or visa supporter but your optimism may be misplaced and should be tempered.

See the federal and state case law at this link.

Piercing the corporate veil

"In recent years, the Internal Revenue Service in the United States has made use of corporate veil piercing arguments and logic as a means of recapturing income, estate, or gift tax revenue, particularly from business entities created primarily for estate planning purposes. A number of US Tax Court cases involving Family Limited Partnerships (FLPs), such as Strangi, Hackl, Shepherd, and Bongard, show the IRS's use of veil piercing arguments. Since owners of US business entities created for asset protection and estate purposes often fail to maintain proper corporate compliance, the IRS has achieved multiple high-profile court victories."

Apr 12, 2012 4:45 AM Hireamerican Hireamerican  says: in response to hoapres

Totally agree with you.....

Apr 12, 2012 5:14 AM Sad follower of Gandhi Sad follower of Gandhi  says: in response to D.K.Bose

What is the problem with this statement. Our society is corrupt and now we call it smartness. How can any defend when 1.5 trillion dollars of Indian black money is in foreign banks.

Sometime back I was speaking to retired high court judge. He said we we Indians are hardworking, talanted etc. but what we lack is character. We love to earn our ways through wrong means even though it is not required.

Tax Fraud, abusing labor is part our daily life. It is better that we now have some selfrespect and improve ourself, rather than raising objection to people showing us the mirror.

Not to divert the discussion, steps should be taken only in US but also in India to check this kind of forgery and frauds. It is more beneficial for we Indians at the end of the day.

Apr 12, 2012 5:53 AM hoapres hoapres  says:

Americans should start living like North Koreans.  If we all stop buying then we will all be out of work.

If we can get an official unemployment rate up to 30% along with having 100 million Americans on food stamps then maybe someone will get the message.

Apr 12, 2012 6:24 AM EngiNERD EngiNERD  says: in response to hoapres

Nothing is going to change.

In a couple of hours the story gets buried and the invasion of the job snatchers, H1B infestation, etc. continues onward.

Good  post ! 

For those of you newer to this issue   let me bring up the  Michael Emmons (Siemens)  case

Though not resulting in a lawsuit  the replacement of American workers  goes back a long long  time


Apr 12, 2012 6:59 AM EngiNERD EngiNERD  says: in response to R. Lawson

Anyone want to wager that the WSJ and Forbes release articles tomorrow that are pro H-1b? 

I'm wondering how the various Indian websites are going to "SPIN" this story.

I suspect they'll be  covering this  story.

In fact I get  much of my visa,  H-1B  news by reading the Indian news. The American business press is generally  ignoring the  issues of H-1B   visa , L-1 visas.

Apr 12, 2012 7:14 AM Pro Pro  says: in response to EngiNERD

Indian media seems to be obsessed with the quarterly results of the 'tech' companies coming out tomorrow.

Apr 12, 2012 7:26 AM Jobs4US Jobs4US  says:

Thanks Don for your perseverance and Jay for your courage.

Finally mainstream media is waking up and maybe the big, bold lie (we can't find American talent). Naturally you won't find qualified Americans if you focus all your efforts avoiding it.

Its shocking that the media and political leaders have stuck their heads in the sand and ignored the crisis happening right in front of them that is devastating the lives of American technology professionals.

Jay Palmer is an American hero. Thank you

Apr 12, 2012 8:18 AM Brian Tallon Brian Tallon  says: in response to EngiNERD

EngiNERD and Roy,

What worries me is the following potential "spin", by either NFAP, Forbes, Microsoft, Vivek, Congress or our President, or one of the indian "media" sites...

It goes something like this:

"Since the U.S. government has failed to increase the Cap on the H-1B visa allotment - and because America faces a shortage of educated citizens, Infosys resorted to violating the B1 U.S. immigration law in order to bring highly qualified ("Best and Brightest") workers to the U.S. to aid the United States with innovation and job creation (citing the BS line "for every XX imported worker, XXX jobs are created for U.S. citizens"). It's the fault of the U.S. government that Infosys had to resort to breaking the law in their effort to help the United States (please forgive Infosys and completely remove the cap on the H-1B visa program)"

With all the press that I've read in the past 7 years, regarding the H-1B program and the negative statements about American citizens, I can only expect some sort of media "spin" like that.

Apr 12, 2012 8:37 AM hoapres hoapres  says:

American high tech workers that object to H1Bs will be black listed and permanently barred from employment.  Indians that complain about H1B abuses will be fired along with sent back to India with possible reprecussions to their families.

Apr 12, 2012 8:57 AM Insider Insider  says: in response to Brian Tallon

Oh man, they are not the best and brightest.  I work with the Infosys employees and they can't manage to find the toilet paper to wipe their hind sides with.   Working there actually renews my spirit that US workers are the best and brightest and that Infosys will always just be their support toolbags.

Apr 12, 2012 9:03 AM Hireamerican Hireamerican  says: in response to hoapres

That's not going to happen....that's cause we don't care about our future generations....we only care about ourselves....we can't wake up in the morning and not have our five dollar cup of joe :P

I must say that Asians will do anything so their children, grandchildren and great grandchilden for the next seven generations are taken care of....

Apr 12, 2012 9:44 AM Doug Grant Doug Grant  says:

Thanks for reporting this story. It is hard to understand why it took so long for the scandal to get national media attention, but as you mention it has now happened.

How many US corporations will audit their insourced contract employee H1-B status, do you think?

Clearly they have a moral obligation to do so - but do they have a legal obligation to ensure that their onsite employees are not holding fraudulent H1-B Visas?

Do US corporations which are engaged in insourcing contracts have an obligation to the shareholders to audit their potential exposure to IT disruption, if such H1-B Visa fraud causes contractors to be repatriated?

Apr 12, 2012 9:49 AM R. Lawson R. Lawson  says:

First, thank you Don for keeping this story alive.  Would Jay have been on CBS without the initial exposure you have provided?  I'm not sure, but I'm sure your coverage helped break this. 

Once Jay Palmer has seen this through and (I assume) no longer be an employee of Infosys there will be people in this country looking to hire someone with his character.

Not all business people have forgotten where they are from and not all business people support the behavior of some of these goliaths in our industry.  You can certainly make good money selling out, but I think that you can also make good money taking the high-road.  Plus you can look yourself in the mirror.

There are even some firms who may find his new reputation as an asset - for example companies who specialize in rural-sourcing or those marketing their American roots.  I see potential work for Jay also with security firms or numerous other consulting role.

Before, Jay Palmer was an unknown person working rather anonymously in this field.  Today, he has name recognition - and to many people the name Jay Palmer has very positive connotations.

Jay you had better trade mark the "I am Jay Palmer" meme before I start selling the t-shirts on E-Bay   I kid, but seriously I think people have positive thoughts about Jay Palmer.  I would enjoy working with someone I can trust to do the right thing, no matter how difficult that is.

Apr 12, 2012 9:53 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says:

I posted the CBS clip on the other thread. More relevant here:

Good coverage of the details of the issues. I'm sure we'll see a countering spin from Infosys through their media connections.

Apr 12, 2012 9:56 AM EngiNERD EngiNERD  says: in response to Brian Tallon

What worries me is the following potential "spin", by either NFAP, Forbes, Microsoft, Vivek, Congress or our President, or one of the indian "media" sites

Good   point, and don't  forget 

Alex Nowrasteh | Competitive Enterprise Institute

and    AeA, ITAA


and what of the many in the mainstream media that regurgitates the propaganda  of  NFAP,  CEI,   TechAmerica  others

Apr 12, 2012 10:04 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says:

I don't see what is the big deal here. Corporations in the United States are a protected entity. They make violations every now and then. When found they pay their fines and move on. Look at what happened to Countrywide, Goldman Sachs, Apple, Microsoft etc.It is likely that Infosys violated the law and might end up paying a few million dollars in fines and penalties. The case goes to rest there.

Apr 12, 2012 10:09 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says: in response to Doug Grant

The answer is none. Corporations have only goal and this is to increase value for their shareholders. They are not there for charity.

Apr 12, 2012 10:10 AM kiprn kiprn  says:

I think someone clearly mentioned how the Infosys statement plays with policy and practice. I think that is what is going to be established by the company as well. Unless Palmer('s lawyers) can prove that Infosys had a laid out policy to abuse B1 visa, I don't think the outcome is going to be anywhere satisfactory. With practice, the company can blame it on the Individuals if at all it comes to that stage. More than a fine, I don't see any more immediate impact.

Also, the figures quoted by CBS was an exaggeration. At any time, no company will have a 100% utilization of their visa workforce. And its also making the assumption that all 6000 employees would be "working" in US illegally, which again is also a stretch of imagination.

What about the American companies that accept such workers. Check the youtube link. Though it is a video of one of the initial coverages of this case, it also shows how IBM openly abusing B1 visa with such open ads. It just shows how the Corporate greed is driving the American jobs to other countries. For these companies, its simple as why pay a high salary for a 20 yr experienced american worker when they can can get workers from offshore companies with  2-3 years experience and get the same job done. Its pure profit for them.

Apr 12, 2012 10:16 AM Stefanie Patton Stefanie Patton  says:

I have so much admiration and respect for Mr. J Palmer. Thank you for having a spine, and much respect for your fellow AMERICAN citizens. I am appalled that our federal government has allowed this to this point, by not following up on the issuance of the "temporary visa".

  I support Mr. Palmer, and would like to say THANK-YOU!!!!

  As we all know the unemployment rates are at all time highs, and we wonder why??? These kind of corporations are taking advantage of us as Americans, and making a mockery of our government guidelines

  Enough said, I could go on and on!!!


Apr 12, 2012 10:25 AM Hireamerican Hireamerican  says: in response to Stefanie Patton

The Feds are in bed with these corrupt don't expect anything to come out of all this...

The Feds will continue to ignore 'we the people', and the corporations will blatantly continue their illegal practices.

Apr 12, 2012 10:37 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to kiprn

Infosys got caught pure and simple.

Unfortunately everybody else does it.

Apr 12, 2012 10:40 AM hoapres hoapres  says:

Here is how the system should work.  You find a qualified American and lay off the H1B.

Apr 12, 2012 10:45 AM A Murray A Murray  says:

Lost in all of this is the fact that companies are shooting themselves in the foot with the h-1b visa.  I've worked in IT for 13 years now with several h-1b workers and I can tell you firsthand that none of them were exceptional and more than a few of them didn't know the first thing about what they were supposed to be doing.  The only explanation that I can come up with for the continuing abuse of this visa is that the people doing the hiring are only interested in salaries and pay zero attention to how much value they are getting for each employee.  If it takes three h-1b workers paid $40,000 per year to do the job of one American making $80,000, it's not much of an advantage for the company.  This is a very big reason why Apple (which uses very few h-1b's) is selling for $629 per share and Microsoft (which is one of the biggest users) is selling for $30 per share.  It's called "penny wise and pound foolish" or "stepping over dollars to pick up dimes".

Apr 12, 2012 11:01 AM an Infoscion an Infoscion  says: in response to R. Lawson


I am with Infosys for more than a decade now (long time huh!)...If you carefully read their statement which you have reproduced...they have stated true facts except for retaliation part...

Unskilled workers - It is a highly relative word...for a starbucks barista job...a guy who is working in a warehouse is unskilled... so is an engineer with few months or hardly 1 or two years exp. for so called SUbject Matter Expert...

But they have never stated "we did not bring someone onshore to do billable work on B1 visa" which is what Jay blew the whistle on.. smart folks at work...

Apr 12, 2012 11:05 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says:

"Our wage rigidity and low education levels is causing us problems and lets not lay it all on a H1B visa worker."

This is one of the false arguments that the paid public relation lobbyists and immigration lawyers who are desperately trying to maintain the status quo are making. Generally, American STEM professionals do not have "wage rigidity" and/or "low education levels".

American STEM professionals' employment problems are caused by several factors, including but not limited to:

(1) the Indian outsourcing bodyshops, and

(2) greedy U.S. corporations and their greedy executives and immigration lawyers, and

(3) passive and unreceptive U.S. politicians seeking campaign and other contributions and benefits from industry lobbyists, and

(4) Indian workers in the U.S. who practice "casteism" (i.e., exclusion, etc.) against American STEM professionals.

Apr 12, 2012 11:26 AM Don Tennant Don Tennant  says: in response to an Infoscion

Nonsense. The most outlandish statement was this one:

"Any allegation or assertion that there is or was a corporate practice of evading the law in conjunction with the B-1 visa program is simply not accurate."

Thanks in large part to Jay and his attorney, the feds are sitting on a mountain of evidence that shows in explicit detail that there was and is a corporate practice of evading the law in conjunction with the B-1 visa program, and there's a mountain of incriminating evidence of flagrant and willful violations of U.S. visa and tax laws. So don't kid yourself.

Apr 12, 2012 11:32 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says: in response to kiprn

"For these companies, its simple as why pay a high salary for a 20 yr experienced american worker when they can can get workers from offshore companies with  2-3 years experience and get the same job done."

It's not so simple. The key assumption (often made by bean counters) is "getting the same job done". But is this true?

This assumption has proven false numerous times (i.e., significant re-work required, lack of innovation, buggy code, etc.) and is evidenced by some companies reversing their outsourcing policies and practices.

Here are some relevant questions related to the "age" vs. "experience" argument:

If you had life threatening brain damage, would you want a surgeon with only 2-3 years of practical experience or a surgeon with 20 years of practical experience operating on you?

If you needed laser eye surgery to prevent total blindness, would you want a surgeon with only 2-3 years of practical experience or a surgeon with 20 years of practical experience operating on you?

If you were facing first-degree murder charges and the death penalty or life in prison, would you want a lawyer with only 2-3 years of practical experience or a lawyer with 20 years of practical experience representing you?

If you were installing new hardwood floors in your multi-million dollar home, would you hire a floor installer with only 2-3 years of practical experience or a floor installer with 20 years of practical experience?

Why should any U.S. company trust a mission critical, multi-million dollar computer system and their valuable intellectual property and trade secrets to a bunch of inexperienced 22-24 year olds living in a foreign nation (with weak corruption standards and laws)?

To justify high salaries, bonuses and bloated portfolios for senior executives, since the 1990s some U.S. companies have erroneously convinced themselves that bona fide experience is not relevant for the IT profession.

Apr 12, 2012 11:34 AM Asian_H1B Asian_H1B  says: in response to Don Tennant


Since you have such a "special interest" in this case, what do you think will be the outcome of this case? someone going to jail? H1B visa abolished? death of the whole outsourcing industry?

Apr 12, 2012 11:35 AM jake leone jake leone  says:

A couple of times in my life I was the Visa'd worker, going to the other country.

I used to work for a Japanese Electronics giant, which has substantial offices in Silicon Valley.

In the training for one such mission, we were all told to avoid the same words that InfoSys employees were told to avoid using.  Essentially I played the role of a gofer on the project, learning how to install the software and then installing the same in the systems in Japan.

I wasn't the only guy going over, to do work on a business/tourist visa (which was illegal).  Several of my colleagues were turned back (had to fly home, 8k round trip flight wasted).  Japanese immigration was on to us rather quickly.

All of this wreaks of lawyer strategization, what is the value of the project, how gullable are the immigration authorities? what is the cost of being exposed?   The fact that this gets translated at the meeting level to "Americans are stupid" doesn't surprize me.


Apr 12, 2012 11:43 AM Brian Tallon Brian Tallon  says: in response to IAmNumber813

Your respone to "Rachael Ray Desouza" is well stated... I definitely agree with what you have noted.

Apr 12, 2012 12:17 PM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Asian_H1B

Ironically the one thing that the US doesn't import from China is their punishment for serious economic crimes: capital punishment. A couple of CEOs/executives have gotten the axe literally. I think that is not a bad idea, and not just in the Infosys case.

Apr 12, 2012 12:26 PM Andy Andy  says: in response to Doug Grant

Corporate greed is the main reason on either side.  However, given the inherent nature of corrupt Indian society, I am not surprized that INFOSYS is involved in bucking the US law.  I am sure many more Indian companies are involved in similar episode.  Curruption is endemic to all aspect of Indian life.

Apr 13, 2012 1:55 AM Da Truth Da Truth  says: in response to kiprn

An engineer in US is a high quality engineer, and gets true education. One in India is dumb and not a "real" engineer. Quality is far better in the US.

Just kick out these H1B workers, America and Americans will cope, heck if w can cope with the mortgage situation and remain a peaceful nation with strength and courage, we can do anything.

Apr 13, 2012 2:28 AM prospectiveh1VISAholder prospectiveh1VISAholder  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

They get SKILLED workers in India and hence don't need to hire from America which is not the case for Indian IT firms when they try and hire from America. Also most Americans are not open and flexible enough to enjoy a new country and culture. The others who are flexible enough do enjoy India and its diversity and Indians welcome them with OPEN ARMS.

Just GOOGLE India EXPAT blogs and see how Americans who are here are enjoying themselves

Besides how many Indian IT workers are there in the US anway (100,000 at MAX) WHEREAS Americans exported more than 21 billion dollars worth of goods to India in 2011.

Imagine a hypothetical situation where India stops importing these goods from US. Imagine the job losses for America. Definitely more than 100,000. However this situation is impractical since India is dependent on US for these goods and do not have the capacity and capability to produce them.

SIMILARLY US corporations depend on Indian IT outsourcers to fill up positions and get IT work done because they are constrained on the same in there countries due to impractical and high cost labour and healthcare laws. Aging population and lack of skilled resources are also pertinent issues which they face. Hence the need for outsourcing/offshoring.

Apr 13, 2012 2:33 AM Jobs4US Jobs4US  says: in response to kiprn

Your statements that Americans are unwilling to accept H1 salaries are without merit.

1. Fact - H1 visa holders earn more than the Americans they replaced. Source Information Week Foreign IT Pros Working In U.S. Earning More Than Americans

2. Fact - U.S.: H-1B Workers Outnumber Unemployed Techies  Source: Computerworld

Highly skilled Americans who have paid our taxes and our dues have been replaced by foreign visa workers.  American talent is more than ready, willing, and able to get back to work and return America back to the great country we know.  Your comments about wage bias are baseless fiction.

The reason you never hear the other side of the story from laid off American techs is simple - it costs money get your voice heard and expensive to pay off politicians, the media, etc. 

Unemployment insurance, something we have earned, pays wages that are literally below the poverty line.  We cannot afford to get our voices heard because we need to decide between paying for food or medical care.

This is no laughing matter and it is no lie. It is a sad statement that our country has abandoned its most valuable asset - American talent.

Sadly  greedy US and foreign companies with deep pockets and agenda have paid off the influencers - all the way up the food chain.  It is shameless that Obama and Biden are completely clueless about H-1b visa law and just repeat repeat the same big les told to them by their benefactors instead of we the people.

Apr 13, 2012 2:54 AM IAmNumber813 IAmNumber813  says:

April 12, 2012: Whistle-Blower Claiming Visa Fraud Keeps His Job, but Not His Work

Jay Palmer's Infosys visa fraud story is currently linked on the front page of

'Basically, these letters falsely claim the foreign employee is coming to visit rather than to work,' Mr. Palmer said. 'Past events started to click in my mind.' Indian employees he had placed as full-time programmers on projects he managed told him they were struggling to survive in the United States on Indian wages. 'The B-1 workers were fully employed in this country, and Infosys was charging its customers full-time wages,' he said.

Apr 13, 2012 3:16 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to prospectiveh1VISAholder

They get SKILLED workers in India and hence don't need to hire from America which is not the case for Indian IT firms when they try and hire from America.

Indian companies operating in the US cannot find skilled American engineers ? Really ? Funny how German, Japanese, Swedish companies in the US don't have that problem of finding local engineers. A strangely pervasive problem that seems to manifest in Indian companies alone.

Apr 13, 2012 3:32 AM prospectiveh1VISAholder prospectiveh1VISAholder  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

Look at the top 100 companies in both US and Europe.

All want to come to India to sell their goods and services. Americans alone exported 100 billion dollars of these in the past 5 years.

GUESS whats the forecast is for the next 5 years- More than 500 Billion Dollars.

AND you think India is dependent on america alone. Itz an interdependent global economy with free flow of goods and services. 


Please fix your really bad laws and primary education system.

Make your general populace more productive and less complacent.

Dont let your kids idolize Zuckerbrg or Brin or Page. They innovated a lot but they aint producing a lot of jobs for you. ALso they are creating a lot of good jobs in India

Let them be like JOBS or GATES. But what the heck even they outsource millions to India

Introduce mandatory courses on Values and Ethics. Don't let another Lehman take place

Also get out of the habit of living in debt all your life. CAUSE itz not gonna work in the future, CHINA's gonna eat you RAW

Apr 13, 2012 4:12 AM hoapres hoapres  says: in response to Jobs4US

The survey saying H1Bs make more money has been thoroughly discredited.

Apr 13, 2012 5:17 AM fraudisFraud fraudisFraud  says: in response to prospectiveh1VISAholder

Your post has ZERO to do with this fraud.

Your answer to widespread fraud by Infosys and countless other bodsyhops and American Corporations is that 'well India is a great place to live and work!''

And about trade with India. Care to know how much DUTY India charges on a Motorbike from Harley Davidson ' 200%. Yes two hundred. Bottle of Jack Daniels - 100%

Now tell me about free trade!!!!

This fraud is rampant and not just on B1s. The quality of people we've all seen in industry on the multitude of visa is on average , just that, average to downright appalling!!! One great Indian Programmer does not automatically make the other 1000 great!!!!

Apr 13, 2012 5:35 AM P K Sharma P K Sharma  says:

Not only Infosys is violating the immigration law. Please find the list of company bring people on B1-Visa to work, L1-visa to work at client place, instead of hiring American or legal immigrant.

1. Tata Consultancy Services (bring on B1 visa, more than 1000 working at client location on L1-Visa (AIG, Citi, Fanie May Fredie Mac, Credit Sussie, till 2005 collected employee tax refund). Please check the IRS statement and W-2 of H1B and L1 visa employee. Paid less than prevailing wage before 2005. Due to which TCS killed 100's of small American consultancy firm.

2. Patni Computer System, bring people on L1-B visa working at client location (300 employee, please check at Statefarm insurance, GE cinncinati Ohio).

3. Cognizant,

4. HCL America,

5. Syntel,

6. Wipro,

7. Birla Software,

Most of the violation is being done by TCS, Patni. They collected IRS tax refund from the employee on H1B visa and L1 visa.

Apr 13, 2012 8:12 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to Da Truth

"An engineer in US is a high quality engineer, and gets true education. One in India is dumb and not a "real" engineer. Quality is far better in the US."

Its a perception. You cannot generalize it, but that's partly true. Remember that the "number" of engineers which these countries dish out will 30-40 times more than the american fresh engineers. Every Tom, Dick and Harry is a engineer. Its a number game for corporate America. Do you think just for doing the coding you need 15-20 years of experience for better quality. Then you are sadly mistaken and out of reality. For the salary and benefits of one 15-20 yrs experienced developer, these corporate will be readily pay for one onsite worker and 5-6 offshore workers and get "more" crappy job done. Sadly that's the reality. They really do not care about nothing else other than profits.

America went into sub-prime mortgage crisis because of the greed of the corporate America for which the citizen's tax money bailed them out. So don't be proud of it. Inspite of that, the head honchos got millions of dollars in severance package and even got bonus. What did common man get? Lost house and lost their job.

Apr 13, 2012 8:19 AM Hireamerican Hireamerican  says: in response to hoapres

I see it everyday......H1 visa holders earn more than the Americans they survey is needed....when we see it with our own eyes day in and day out working alongside these folks....

Apr 13, 2012 8:21 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to Jobs4US

Even the H1 workers pay taxes with most of them not going to get the long term benefits. If somebody says that they are not paying taxes, then they are just plain ignorant. If the H1 workers crib about paying taxes, then clear message should be don't work in US and go back. Nobody is forcing you.

Wage bias is not a fiction. That's a fact. "Average" H1 worker will never be paid more. Your links are 3 years old. Those were the times of desperation when common man was paying for Corporate greed. Its not the country that has abandoned the talent. Its the puppet politicians and greedy corporate that has abandoned the common man. And still have the guts to say "Corporation are people" - funny.

Apr 13, 2012 8:24 AM Hireamerican Hireamerican  says: in response to Jobs4US

"The reason you never hear the other side of the story from laid off American techs is simple - it costs money get your voice heard and expensive to pay off politicians, the media, etc" are is extremely overwhelming to get justice.....hats off to Mr. Palmer...I don't know how he is doing it.....I

Apr 13, 2012 9:25 AM Sanity Sanity  says:

Any violation of law must be dealt with as per the law of the land, there cant be anymore argument on this. But i think the larger question is related to my American friend's grievance to 'outsourcing' and rather unclear definition of skilled and unskilled workers. What mainstream media call 'outsourcing', i call it 'globalization'....its give and take....American companies are present in INdia more then Indian companies present in America! CHeck out all Ameircan big-wigs setting-up shops in India and many more- WalMarts,BestBuys,etc waiting in line to enter India. With growing Indian middle class and 1 billion+ population, they know they are sitting on gold-mine.

AS far as skills can be subjective...not all Americans deserve what they get and not all Indians turn out good investment. Same as Americans try to label Indian/Chinese labor as 'cheap', Indian/Chinese label Americans as 'overpriced'.

I think it would be best to deal with issues like that of Jay Palmer on case to case bases instead of painting whole industry with same brush.

Apr 13, 2012 10:09 AM SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6 SealTeam6  says: in response to Sanity

Do the American companies in India staff their offices with 80% American employees ?

Apr 13, 2012 10:21 AM EngiNERD EngiNERD  says:

Breaking  news

Here's a  follow-up to  yesterday's report on THIS MORNING  (CBS News)  re the   Infosys (  Jay Palmer)  case:


Check this out:

Whistleblower report prompts call to action

Here's  hoping Congress  begins the  investigation

Apr 13, 2012 10:51 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to SealTeam6 SealTeam6

Nobody has stopped them. If it made business sense for them, they would have gone ahead and filled 100%. Its just simple math for these corporations - whatever brings them more profit, then they will lean towards it.

You were worried about Indians coming to US and Americans losing job them, wait till Brazilians and Mexicans come upto speed. Since they are more or less in same timezone, many of these companies will treat them as near onshore. Then even the Indians will be sent back as the wages paid in these countries will be comparatively less compared to H1 wages. Why do you think companies like IBM, Infosys, TCS have their development centers(not operations) in more than 10-15 countries. Even after that these outsourcing companies will flourish, but not the American citizen who lost their job. Welcome to global economy.

Apr 13, 2012 11:13 AM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to prospectiveh1VISAholder

You must be joking. There are much more than 100 thousand Indian working on these visa. But the job lost is much more. Dont forget that they just the front face to the 4 or 5 member offshore team on average. Which means its like 500 or 600 thousand job loss, even going by your conservative numbers. But the actual numbers are much bigger than this. And these are just the big companies. There are many more smaller body shop companies which are also directly resulting in American job loss.

The IT industry itself is some $20B industry in India and some 60% revenue comes from US alone. So think about the impact it has had on the Americans in general.

So dont kid yourself with these numbers. More than lack of skilled labour, its the cost of the skilled labour that is driving the offshoring.

Unless, laws are brought in or strictly implemented by government to cover these loop holes in immigration and visa, one or other will company will misuse it. But both the Republicans and Democrats will keep fighting each other, but wont worry to address the core issue. Its just like politicians in any other country - they don't give a damn about common citizen.

Apr 13, 2012 11:50 AM Hireamerican Hireamerican  says: in response to EngiNERD

Congress will do nothing.....shame on us to expect them to do anything :P

Apr 13, 2012 12:00 PM Brian Tallon Brian Tallon  says: in response to IAmNumber813

I also agree with your statements about experience. It seems that somewhere in the world of corporate metrics and accountability, they (management and the accountants) never look at the total cost over time - work that has to be redone because of quality issues caused by the less experienced worker...Failure to do the job right the first time as someone with experience would do it. Failure to realize the cost of  having multiple workers, working a task that one experienced worker would be able to handle while working on other things at the same time. They (management and the accountants) just see it as the cheap rates they are paying and not as the sum of the cheap rates they are paying for multiple workers to perform the same task as one experienced worker....

And in the end, management is not held accountable for their bad decisions, all the details just get muddied over, clouded, or overlooked, to justify their bad decisions.

Apr 13, 2012 12:46 PM Da Truth Da Truth  says: in response to Brian Tallon

Infosys pays below par wages to these workers who want to come to US.

Infosys cheats US laws to bring more of these poor workers.

Infosys treatsmany US employees as ther management (middle) has no ethics and is not qualified or inexperienced in US and British societies.

Good first step to get attention! Now let's make it the a key point in political debates. Cmon, America let's fight , punish Infosys and show the American strength as a country.

Apr 13, 2012 12:51 PM kiprn kiprn  says: in response to IAmNumber813

I completely agree on all your statements. But if the american companies are still doing the outsourcing and still reaping benefits even after their offshore counterpart doing rework after rework using unskilled labour, think about how much of a cost difference is present. Its either the salaries were too bloated in the first place or these emerging countries are underselling themselves. In either case, American companies are still getting the benefits.

Remember how bloated the retirement packages of the top tier leadership gets in all these companies. The average american worker is getting $crewed left, right and center. The companies are getting the benefits, the share holders are getting the benefits, but american employees are the one who are losing out big time. So none of these companies will be in a big hurry to stop offshoring.

Also, not all work being done is mission critical. There will be many mundane work which does not need 20 years skillset. So people doing such work without upgrading their skills, and thinking the job is mission critical and will not get done without me are getting a reality check. I have seen both the extreme ends of the spectrum. Such people either need to upgrade their skills or will get left behind (or let go or whatever we want to call that). I have never seen a skilled employee let go. But the ones on border become easy target.

Instead of hiring these inexperienced offshore labour, atleast the american companies should give chance to fresh American engineers. But finding Americans who are ready to accept such lower wage(matching the H1 worker's wage) becomes difficult. I agree with Obama when he says we have to fight them in field of education. But without the education cost going down, I dont know America will be able to catch up with these countries.

Today, its Indian companies. Tomorrow it will be China, Phillipines, Mexico, Brazil etc. So I don't know how this problem is going to be addressed.

Apr 15, 2012 1:56 AM SP SP  says: in response to kiprn

All PAlmer's attorney has to prove is that Palmer was sidelined and harassed for having come out with the story- He doesn't need to prove any OTHER wrongdoing on Infosys' part. Palmer walks away a rich man who can hopefully set up his own business after that. The DoJ will investigate and decide if they have enough to convict Infosys in a court of law on the Visa charges. Palmer was the whistle blower, but his case has to do with damages- If Infosys loses this case, they pay Palmer. The DoJ has not decided yet if they are going to take Infosys to court.

Apr 15, 2012 10:59 AM Hireamerican Hireamerican  says: in response to SP

The DOJ will never take Infosys to court :P

Apr 16, 2012 8:19 AM Joshon Joshon  says: in response to Doug Grant

Please read this and you will understand more on how those India companies send those so called "manager" to US

Apr 16, 2012 8:20 AM Joshon Joshon  says: in response to Joshon

Here is the link for this petition. Please sign it.

Apr 22, 2012 1:44 AM Defination of Skilled Worker Defination of Skilled Worker  says:

nice post

Apr 24, 2012 12:36 PM John John  says:

I believe the blogger is afraid of his own job! Some indian and chinease will take that away pretty soon. I have read through most of his blogs and strongly sense the racial discrimination and hatred to Indian and Chinease people/companies/country.  I would rather ignore and spend my time elsewhere.  Initiation of proceedings is not an admission of guilt. Let the court decide the outcome and not try to become the judge by himself. if some lapses happened Infosys would have to pay the price. They have enough money to pay it.  So dont worry! Infosys and other Indian and Chinease companies are they to stay. Not to eat away american jobs but to support rebuilding of the great United state of america.  God bless united State of America !

May 18, 2012 6:21 AM Tony Tony  says:

This is common practice and Galaxe Solutions have been doing this for years.

I think it must be legal if they are all doing it.

May 18, 2012 6:47 AM Indian_B1 Indian_B1  says: in response to Tony

Who are Galaxe?. How do I get a job with them?

May 18, 2012 6:56 AM Tony Tony  says: in response to Indian_B1

The guy you need to speak with is steve weiss. More of a cowboy than indian though.

Sep 21, 2012 4:05 PM AmericanDisplaced AmericanDisplaced  says:
All I want to say is it is going to happen to YOU and your children too, if YOU don't do something to stop it. Due to our laws on free trade, and visas, we will ALWAYS be replaced by cheaper labor, here or abroad. So does that mean we have to work for the same salary as a young Chinese factory worker, fresh off the countryside farm, or else we will lose our jobs here in America? Sorry, but that is what it equates to. It is time for all the whiners to stand up and fight back (peacefully, via the law of course), or we are destined to see the USA be turned into the "Open States for the World". Call your congressman, march on Washington, do SOMETHING besides complain. Reply

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