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202

Why Blu-Ray Should Never Have Existed: Technology Lesson Learned

Posted by Rob Enderle Sep 3, 2007 11:01:05 AM

A number of experts are pointing out why Blu-Ray is a mess. In hindsight, Blu-Ray should never have existed. Looking back at what happened with this technology can help us avoid similar mistakes in the future with a variety of products.

 

Today I'd like to cover the warning signs and point to Blu-Ray as the current example of a problem product  that can crop up in any company, from IBM to Microsoft.

 

Now, I know a lot of people still believe Blu-Ray is winning (though that number declined sharply after Paramount and DreamWorks jumped ship), but if you really step back, you'll realize all it is doing is ensuring HD-DVD doesn't win either, and the impact of that on the movie industry has to be in the billions.

 

Danger Sign One:  It Can't Stand on Its Own

 

I've seen this over and over again, and am surprised more of us don't point this out. If a product requires substantial support from the parent to keep it alive, including funding levels that probably can't be reasonably recouped, it has a very high likelihood of failing.

 

Successful products generally need some boost in terms of marketing and backing, but if they need sustained investment over long periods of red ink, at some point there is likely to be an executive change, and the new guy will immediately realize that the product needs to be killed.

 

We saw this years ago with OS/2. The level of investment was unprecedented, and to keep Louis Gerstner, the CEO who was brought in to turn IBM around, from killing it out of hand, he was maneuvered into publicly promising to support it indefinitely. Shortly thereafter, he killed funding for the offering quietly, leaving a lot of companies that had listened to the empty promise hanging in the wind.

 

With Blu-Ray, the warning sign was the tie-in to the PlayStation 3, which was the big crutch for the product. I was just as blind to this early on as everyone else, and didn't realize until too late that rather than the PlayStation assuring the success of Blu-Ray, Blu-Ray assured the failure of the PS3.

 

A product has to hit on three vectors: it has to work to expectations, it has to be something people want, and it has to be affordable. The fact that it wasn't affordable killed not only Blu-Ray but effectively took out the PS3 in the process. Without the PS3, Blu-Ray couldn't beat HD-DVD, which had no similar crutch and advanced into the market much more easily (and shipped much earlier).

 

Danger Sign Two: Key Competitive Advantage Unimportant

 

In the case of competing technologies, there are advantages and disadvantages between the products. For instance, in the case of Windows vs. Linux on the desktop, the key advantage is that Linux is open source which, to the average Windows user, is not only unimportant -- when explained it might actually scare them away from the offering. Apple, on the other hand, is providing advantages consumers at least want, and is showing considerable success at the moment.

 

For Blu-Ray, the big advantages seem to be capacity and special features (something HD-DVD shared). On capacity, the reality was that you really didn't need as much as Blu-Ray offered for movies; since game developers (most of them) develop for several platforms, they were limited to standard DVD capacities, anyway. For backup, initially they had an argument, but with the growth of storage and the speed of writing to optical discs (which is very slow), both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray became impractical as backup and transport media for PC files. Portable hard drives are cheaper, easier to use (all you need is a USB port, not another Blu-Ray drive at the other end), vastly faster, and actually more portable. For special features on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies, folks simply didn't care. They just wanted to watch the movie. So arguing who had the best features quickly became a waste of time.

 

So Blu-Ray was better, if the buyer doesn't care, it doesn't make any difference, and the vendors who haven't yet learned that lesson are way too prevalent.

 

Danger Sign Three: Excessive Cost

 

Whether we are talking IT products or consumer offerings, there are price windows that the market will accept. While you can (and Sony is actually expert at this) bring out some things high and let them drift down successfully, this generally only works if you are entering a green field (Global Positioning Systems are a good example) or moving against a technology that is stagnant (Apple's entry into the MP3 player market).

 

In most cases, a new technology will enter on top of an old technology which is still advancing, and if the company doesn't own the market for the old technology, as was the case with DVD, and the old technology is both seen as good enough by many buyers, up-selling will prove to be tough.

 

While HD-DVD had a heavy focus on cost, both from the standpoint of media and drives, Blu-Ray did not -- it was more of a technology pure play. Blu-Ray has, in terms of retooling, already consumed massive amounts of investment on the manufacturing side. Most of this is actually done now, and this was pointed out as a serious problem at the front end.

 

But on the player side, the HD-DVD players are now close to high-volume pricing, which kicks in at $200; Blu-Ray is still 12 to 24 months away from these price points. Why this is critical is up-converters (scalars) are both getting better and coming down in price. A scalar takes a low-definition image and electronically augments it so it looks like a HD image. Right now, DVD players in the $200 range have excellent scalars which most find look more than adequate on their new HD sets. The cost advantages of the old technology remain high, as the media for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are substantially higher than standard DVDs.

 

Next year, good scaling DVD players will be well below $200 and that gives both formats limited time to start building a base.

 

Blu-Ray, from day one, couldn't get to where it needed to be in time. Had this been fully vetted (and I'm quite sure Sony's partners were not aware of this), Blu-Ray would have never left the lab.

 

Wrapping Up

 

Getting excited about cool technology is great; letting that excitement get in the way of good judgment can be expensive. In looking back, I actually wasn't asking the right questions either, and know better (I initially supported Blu-Ray and assumed Sony wasn't foolish enough to sacrifice the PS3 for Blu-Ray). So this is as much a reminder for me as it is for you. Remember if a product:

 

1. Can't stand on its own; 2. Has competitive advantages that actual customers don't care about; and 3. Can't possibly meet cost targets on time.

 

Then don't invest your money in it, and for your company's sake, don't invest your company's money in it, either. As I conclude, the news is hitting that another Sony storage technology has a problem; it seems F-Secure has identified Sony's MicroVault USB memory stick the source of a significant PC vulnerability. Maybe there is a fourth rule having to do with Sony.

 

In the end, technology battles can be painful for all involved. This one has cost the movie industry billions and put Sony at extreme risk in several business areas. Keep your eyes open and make your choices not on what you want to win, but on what likely will win, and you may want to hold off making any choice when the choice isn't clear. In this case, that last option still may be your best choice.

Sep 3, 2007 11:16 AM Guest a  says:

So... who paid you to write this?

Sep 3, 2007 11:19 AM Guest Stan  says:

This should have been posted on April 1. You are an embarrassment.

Sep 3, 2007 11:35 AM Guest Amdsoo  says:

How much HD DVD camp paid you for such irrelevant article ?

Sep 3, 2007 11:40 AM Guest John B  says:

You should disclose that you're a paid Toshiba consultant.

Sep 3, 2007 11:44 AM Guest Ken B  says:

Precisely the sort of baseless PR drivel to be expected from a paid consultant from the Toshiba/HD DVD group.

Sep 3, 2007 11:48 AM Guest funky49  says:

"Danger Sign One: It Cant Stand on Its Own"

 

So from a business standpoint, that means the Xbox and Xbox360 should not have been existed?

Sep 3, 2007 11:50 AM Guest MK24ever  says:

Rob.... you are a pathetic little man you knew?

 

Do you really think your biased opinion will change anything? Go play with your legos again and stay away of others sight because you are an unhappy man.

Sep 3, 2007 12:11 PM Guest Raymond  says:

1) If no one cares about special features studios wouldn't make them. Simple as that.

 

2) The main market for Hi Def discs isn't for mass storage, its for media. You cant buy a film on a hard drive nor would any one want to. Some people think that downloading hi def films is the future. It may be in 20 years time but in the real world most people have rubbish Internet connections and don't have their PCs connected to their Tvs.

 

3) The biggest selling Tvs in the western world are large hi def flat-screens. If there is no market for hi def media wtf are they buying them for?

 

"Without the PS3, Blu-Ray couldnt beat HD-DVD"

 

However it does exist and it's the reason why Bluray media is massively outselling HD-DVD and why there is far more public awareness of the format than it's rival.

 

I would advise you to look at the bigger picture (outside the US). Japan, China, Korea, S.Africa, Australia and Europe are all predominantly BluRay and the lead is increasing. HD-DVD had a head start but failed to capitalise on it. The HD-DVD group are very wary of releasing sales figure for outside the US for a very good reason. They only sold 2000 HD-DVD players in their first year in the UK. That pales into insignificance when compared to the PS3s first week UK sales of 160,000. Of course most people aren't buying that to watch films but considering it was the first and cheapest BluRay player officially launched in the UK its perfectly reasonable to assume that some are doing exactly that.

 

A clear winner between these formats wont become apparent until at least the end of 2008 but at the moment I would bet on it being BluRay.

 

I'm not going to comment much about your statement on the 'failure' of the PS3. Its sold more than the PS1 and PS2 did at the same point after launch and sales are increasing.

Sep 3, 2007 12:23 PM Guest Paul F  says:

Wow,  what an extremely awful attempt to smear blu-ray that was.  I have begun to wonder if there is such thing as a non biased piece of reporting these days.  Truly, truly awful.

Sep 3, 2007 12:28 PM Guest unbiased  says:

Rob, You say that HD DVD technology is cheaper. The price drops were only implemented since the PS3 had developed a larger install base than HD DVD. This had nothing to do with scaling. If scaling was taken into consideration HD DVD and BluRay would not be considering a price drop until the majority of their development costs had been met or if there is a high percentage of sales month to month. This helps large corporations to re-eveluate their buisiness plan.

 

I am very interested to see where you get your figures from BluRay Discs are outselling HD DVD in every quarter for the past 12 months.

 

You should disclose who has been paying for your lunches recently when you post such a transparent blog.

 

Finally, why would either format be bad. The winner in the end is the consumer as both formats are still battling it out and when the consumers are ready to move to the next gen, prices will be competetive and the the technology will be developed to full potential.

 

You lost all credabillity, Hope the money was worth it?

Sep 3, 2007 12:28 PM Guest João Batista  says:

Nice article. Looks like some people can´t open theirs eyes to that. If playstation 3 had been launched one year before Wii, it will be the videogame´s best seller. Now, it became behind Wii.

 

Blu-ray is just winning because of the Playstation3. No one is buying the blu-ray player because it´s expensive and incomplete.

 

While some people are complaining because of the war of the HDs, I just have to thank´s. That´s why we can buy a HD DVD player for $200. If we only got blu-ray, the price of the player probally gets $1000.

Sep 3, 2007 12:33 PM Guest MacManic  says:

I stopped reading this argument after "We saw this years ago with OS/2"

 

OS/2 vs BluRay? WTF?? I skipped to the comments, a much better read. If hdDVD beats blu-ray I'll be very surprised.

Sep 3, 2007 12:46 PM Guest RupM  says:

I read the article with interest and noted some of the stronger arguments Mr. Enderle made.  First, he's right in that neither of the two formats: Blu-Ray or HD-DVD have achieved the market penetration or widespread recognition of being better than standard DVD.  Not yet.  However, HD - both in terms of display sets and media content - is still a nascent technology and this format "war" will not be fully played out until movie fans buy HDTV sets en bloc.

 

This being said, I noticed that there were several "leaps of logic" in Mr. Enderle's arguments.  First, incorporating a Blu-Ray player within the PS3 did not really mean that the PS3 cannot stand alone.  If anything - as the last 10 months have proven, the early adoption of Blu-Ray within the PS3 has prolonged the longevity of the PS3.  This is especially true considering that the release of games designed for the PS3 was originally dismal, but is now picking up steam.  In the meantime, early adopters (me included) watched Blu-Ray movies, designed a home theater system to take advantage of the acoustic benefits of a higher bandwidth that Blu-Ray proffers, and are now ensnared into buying "reference" titles released on Blu-Ray.  Indeed, I - along with many others -  have not purchased a single standard definition DVD title since I got my PS3.

 

Software content sells hardware.  One reason for the seemingly unsurmountable lead that Microsoft has over any other OS is that of bundling of the OS with new computers.  So much so that better products fall by the wayside.  In this respect, Blu-Ray has more studio support, and the studios that are Blu-Ray exclusive have content that appeals to a broader range of demographics - from children's movies (Disney, primarily), to the young adult (Disney, Sony, Fox, Warner), to those that enjoy classics (same studios), and some foreign fare (Canal+, amongst others).

 

Amount of storage becomes very important when dealing with data transfers in the 20 - 40 MB/s range.  Recently, RB Films encoded a movie they recorded in HD media for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.  The higher specifications that Blu-Ray allows provided this studio Blu-Ray encode at 37 Mbits/s versus 26 Mbits/second for HD-DVD.  In addition, the storage space on Blu-Ray allowed the incorporation of a lossless audio track at 5.3 Mbps versus a maximum of 3 Mbps on HD-DVD.  This increase in bandwidth will, putatively, make for a more enjoyable experience in watching Nature's Journey from RB Films.

 

Finally, meeting cost targets is a function of market supply and demand.  In light of the required change in broadcast standards that is slated for Feb 2009 and the growing awareness of HD, it is only a matter of time before public awareness grows to the point where more and more people will want to get the "best" their relatively high-priced HDTV can display.  In this light, I believe that Blu-Ray is getting better positioned to become the HD media of choice...

Sep 3, 2007 12:59 PM Guest janus  says:

Obviously this guy isn't American. You see I am. And I am proud to say that I have a household full of items that have more capacity than I need but that I use occasionally. "Like what?", you say. Well an extra large refrigerator, an iron with so many features I dont know what half of them are,this computer in front of me, my digital camera, my printer, television and remote with a hundred little buttons, my 4 wheel drive car which I drive 98% of the time on normal roads, washer and dryer, sleep number bed, cable television with so many channels that I forget the ones that I watch normally and not to forget also comes with a remote with at least 25 buttons, my oven, and well what else is there?

 

Well lets talk about the stuff that has a marginal use...uh....George Forement grill, Ronco food dehydrator, heck count every electric food processing item I've received as a gift and 1/4 of the stuff in my garage. The point is...sometimes its just nice to have the "extras" even if it is just space. If space wasn't worth anything...why do I see so many self storage places around? Cause I need to store stuff away right. Welll the same if not more goes for digital media.

 

Now for the linking to PS3...what a joke. Did you mention that HD-DVD is linked to Toshiba since they are the "major" hd dvd manufacturer. Oh and dont bother counting RCA cause that's a Toshiba too. Kinda like how a Zune is a Toshiba...oh did I not menion that earlier. Isnt that a funny link? Lets take a look

 

Zune made by Toshiba..which is then bought and sold by Micrsoft. HDDVD players made by Toshiba. HDDVD backed by Microsoft (codecs and game content) used on XBox360 (made by Microsoft).  Add 150 million into the picture and you get exclusive content from Viacom, Dreamworks, and Paramount (paid by Microsoft, Toshiba and some others) which btw I no longer buy products from and there you have a truly visible link of trying to buy the market.

 

As an principal analyst of a forward looking firm, you're analysis is wholly incorrect. How did you get your gig? A friend hook you up or something? haven't you done any reading? Have you been to the store lately? What's the last flick that you bought? You look a bit old...not that it should work against you but c'mon man trying to sway the masses with an article like this is....bogus.

 

PS3 has sold 4 million units in a year. Im not just focsuing on the US here. We are in a global economy right? 1 million in Europe (UK incuded)...like what 1.4 here at home...a couple million abroad...that's just the start. Add that to the dedicated players and you'll see that BD is going to win. You see...my PS3 may ook like a Foreman Grill, can play HD games, can go online for free, link to my PSP, and play Blu Ray movies as well. Heck I wish it could actually grill a burger then I could add another device to my collection that can do more things than I can find use of....

Sep 3, 2007 1:37 PM Guest owen  says:

man you people that are commenting are stupid. first if blu-ray is so good with capacity the disce life is now only 3 years life span with terabyte disces already scedualed for 2010 and a movie studio is not going to have tere assembly line changed over to blu-ray when it is only going to last that long at most so hd dvd and blu-ray are both temporary formates  and neather are going to last more then 3 years and in terms of storage right now it's far more cheaper to get an external hard drive it's faster then both and you can move files well like a hard drive  not write onec  and if blu-ray is so great why are all the dates being pushed back the format is being rushed and mistakes are being made and writing code for bd-java is like old school dos  (to activat a cd rom in dos c:\mscdex /:filename /:drive letter /:buffer and you had to now what your doing ) and hd dvd hdi is far more easyer just like web page editing (xml) hd dvd is far more cheaper to setup assembly lines and producing discs and considering that on a blu-ray assembly line the falure rate for bd25 discs is 20% and the bd50 are 40% every 3 disc is garbage and thats money lost for the maufacturer while hd dvd discs that use a blue laser the faluaer rate is only 10% far less then blu-ray and cheaper in the long run and even though more blu-ray discs are sold there profit is far less then hd dvd becouse of the cost of maufacturing but in the end both formates are beta none of them are going to win  neather are a big step forward and one isn't finished and one isn't  going anyware

Sep 3, 2007 1:49 PM Guest MOTE  says:

I'd like to see some figures on just how "sharply" support for Blu-ray has declined since Paramount was bought out.

 

Who pays you to spread this?

Sep 3, 2007 2:01 PM Guest charmed  says:

You got it all wrong Rob Enderle. Since blu ray has more studio support, hd dvd is the one that should never have existed. Hd dvd only created confusion to consumers and they did it again when they decided to play dirty and pay $150 Mil to get an exclusive deal with a studio. Ever heard of karma? The HD DVD camp is in for a rude awakening when Blu ray beats the crap out of them.

Sep 3, 2007 2:06 PM Guest Daniel Maitland  says:

Despite the desperate attempts by HD-DVD, blu ray is still rocking the world by storm, gaining the leading publisher in China and it now has three of the major PC manufacturers under its belt. Its time for a new disc format and its going to  be blu ray.

Sep 3, 2007 2:09 PM Guest The Shrike  says:

Wow.  This is a terrible article.

Sep 3, 2007 2:13 PM Guest Daniel Maitland  says:

As a filmmaker I and my colleagues agree that it is time for a new disc format. I have already worked with both Blu ray and HD DVD and to tell you the truth I have really dropped HD DVD all together. Its not a durable disc it doesnt hold as much data its cheap and tacky. Is it a step forward? YES, but blu ray is a giant leap and thats what the movie industry needs.

Sep 3, 2007 2:19 PM Guest eddie  says:

Ok. My only complaint about this article is you left out something pretty damn important. If HD-DVD was so great, why don't they make blank media and HD-DVD writers?? Everyone is waiting, and everyone leaves this part out... If you buy an HD camcorder, how are you going to view it???? on your hd-dvd player with a blank HD-DVD disk... OH WAIT! YOU CAN'T! They don't exist yet. There are readable HD-DVD drives in HP's and a few other brands, but nothing that can actually be used. I wish someone would make an article in NY Times or something because the idea is to replace the DVD and the HD-DVD does not offer that yet. There is the option however of getting a Blu-ray disc burner, and blank disc. And for some who don't know, there is even an option on the PS3 to rip AVCHD from a sony camcorder onto the hard drive for later viewing...

Sep 3, 2007 2:24 PM Guest KindredWolf  says:

Hey Rob,

 

how will you feel when blu-ray wins the format war? Will you fell a bit silly when 2 years from now, Bluray is the norm and you have to go out and get your favorite films in bluray?

 

This article just sunk your credibility, with everyone but Toshiba....hope it was worth whatever you got. MAybe you don't know but right now your article is being spread to all HD enthusiasts, and your name will be remembered, along with your credibility.

 

Next article, "Why Rob Enderle's Article never should have existed: Lessons learned from Toshiba"

Sep 3, 2007 2:25 PM Guest Ari  says:

Most enthusiasts now know that HD DVD would never have existed if Toshiba and Warner had supported Sony and Panasonic in 2002 when they were approached outside of the DVD forum about supporting their application to the DVD forum to have Blu-ray become the next generation successor to DVD. Warner and Toshiba claimed to see no value in a High Def disc format at the time.

 

It should not surprise anyone how HD DVD is basically a cutdown clone of Blu-ray since Toshiba received a preview of the Blu-ray technology years before they "invented" HD DVD.

 

I'm afraid your masters have fed you a sack of lies.  HD DVD should have never existed.

Sep 3, 2007 2:42 PM Guest lee  says:

I guess this guy never heard of competition..Which is good for consumer.  Without each other..you would still pay 1,000 dollar for each player.

Sep 3, 2007 3:12 PM Guest A1  says:

What a load of garbage, We've all seen your rants before on blu ray. Please give up its boring and a waist  of peoples time.

Sep 3, 2007 3:12 PM Guest haha  says:

haha i bet now u wish  u didnt even write this articled

Sep 3, 2007 3:18 PM Guest Name Required  says:

And people pay you to be a technology consultant?  You'd better invest that revenue wisely.

Sep 3, 2007 3:18 PM Guest Duke  says:

"Now, I know a lot of people still believe Blu-Ray is winning (though that number declined sharply after Paramount and DreamWorks jumped ship),"

 

Actually, alot of people still believe Blu-Ray is winning even after Paramount and Dreamworks jumped ship.  Where did you get your info that the numbers have declined sharply? Admit it, this is just your opinion.

Sep 3, 2007 4:00 PM Guest Bill Gates  says:

Good work Rob, the check is in the mail.

Sep 3, 2007 4:25 PM Guest Jake  says:

Wow did you actually think about what you said before you typed it

"Danger Sign One: It Cant Stand on Its Own

 

Ive seen this over and over again, and am surprised more of us dont point this out. If a product requires substantial support from the parent to keep it alive, including funding levels that probably cant be reasonably recouped, it has a very high likelihood of failing."

 

I mean look at what the HD-dvd forum did they paid paramount 50 million and DreamWorks 100 million to go exclusive for 18 months that is pretty steep to try and stop the inevitable

 

And lets look back to the skeptics when the ps2 was realized they were saying the same thing was way to pricy and should not have come with a dvd drive and we all know where that went. Sure I dont really use my blu-ray player in my ps3 much but its nice to have that feature.

 

Blu-Ray couldnt beat HD-DVD, which had no similar crutch and advanced into the market much more easily (and shipped much earlier). This points works against what you said hd-dvd came out before blu-ray but now blu-ray is selling movies 2 to 1 including movies on both formats so saying hd-dvd came out before is bad for them they should be outselling blu-ray from the head start but there not. Which brings me to another point paramount and DreamWorks has no good reason to go to hd-dvd exclusive because even there movies with both formats where selling 2 to 1 on blu-ray that is further proof that it was the 150 million that convinced them.

 

This is interesting since game developers (most of them) develop for several platforms, they were limited to standard DVD capacities, anyway bill gates once said that 640k of ram would be more then anyone would ever need for computers that is why conventional memory was caped at 640k wow this shows how stupid that remark is because with new technology comes more memory needed so to say this is like saying since they are limited to DVD capacity now in 500 years DVDs would still work well for games

 

moving against a technology that is stagnant (Apples entry into the MP3 player market this is another example of you not studying the info right apple ipods are generally twice as expensive as other mp3 players and they out sell all there competitors by a huge margin and its kind of interesting how you boast about apple a couple of times in the article because apple backs blu-ray.

 

Samsung BD-P1000 BLU-RAY DISC PLAYER

Samsung - BDP1000

Rating:    (3 Reviews) Special Offer

from$349.99  

(13 Sellers)   

 

 

This blu-ray player shows up in pricegrabber for $349.99 which is not that much more so your 12 to 24 months is pretty far fetch.

Sep 3, 2007 4:25 PM Guest kai  says:

wow this is such a terrible article. you bash on blu-ray through out the whole article and have zero to little evidence to back up your argument.

 

you say stuff like "Now, I know a lot of people still believe Blu-Ray is winning (though that number declined sharply after Paramount and DreamWorks jumped ship".  Can I get some number with that? Also, I love how you failed to mention that the only reason Paramount and DreamWorks jumped ship was because they got a $150mil check. =/

 

 

anways let me provide some numbers for you since I can't find any in your article.

 

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending August 26th

 

WE: BD-68% HDD-32% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

 

 

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending August 19th

 

 

WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

 

 

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending August 12th

 

WE: BD-66% HDD-34% YTD: BD-66% HDD-34% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Sep 3, 2007 4:38 PM Guest Joe Whip  says:

You BD fanboys are a riot.  Get a life really. Neither format is doing crap in the market. The sales figures for both stink. The PS3 isn't selling well at all. Neither is the Xbox 360. So what? The wii is killing them both. Why? It is  a lot cheaper than both and delivers the fun factor in spades. There is a lesson in there. Post all the BD sales numbers you want. Thay are appauling given the number of PS3s out there. Both have a long, long way to go before thay can even touch DVD let alone replace it. The name calling here is in keepi9ng with what you see in other forums. Have a dignified discussion. Respectfully disagree and show some class.

Sep 3, 2007 4:48 PM Guest Jason  says:

What a joke of an article.   Replace 'blu-ray' with 'hd dvd' in most of that article and it would mean the same thing. 

 

Sad to see so many people actually trying to support a weaker format.

Sep 3, 2007 4:58 PM Guest jp nile  says:

Hey Rob,

 

If there is to be one format for the (near ) futurre of electronics, then I want the one which holds the most data. Whether it is a movie with a plethora of features or a backup of my family pictures, size matters my friend. The prices will soon match hardware-wise and blu-ray has the ability to transfer data at a much higher rate saving you and me time no matter what we are doing with the format. It is HD-DVD which was not necessary for Microsoft to push: an inferior format that is limited in SPACE!!!! Are you kidding me, only 30gb I might as well use dvd's. Blu-Ray will eventually max out at 200gb. You can be the one with all those HD-DVD laying around holding your information while I will have one or two for the near future holding the entire contents of my hard-drive. Later HD wannabee.

Sep 3, 2007 5:07 PM Guest Jan  says:

Very good article. Shame that the PS3 gamers' became so mad? I'm starting to really think the article was too real, since all the brickering by the blu-boyz.

Sep 3, 2007 5:09 PM Guest CW  says:

Blu-Ray fan boy's are turning into quite a sad bunch.

It seems they have nothing to do but whine once one thing goes wrong for them.  This story rings quite true no mater how they want to twist it.  Blu-Ray should roll over and die so the HD market can unify around a common sense format.

Sep 3, 2007 5:20 PM Guest jan  says:

Wow, you are a very hated man.  But couldn't your comments be just as directed towards HD DVD as they are with Blu Ray?  Blu Ray will help the Playstation 3 because, as it has already shown with GTA4, the dvd that the X360 uses cant hold the size of the newer games coming out.

Sep 3, 2007 5:45 PM Guest Steve  says:

I don't know how ignorant you have to be to write an "article" like this.

 

"Now, I know a lot of people still believe Blu-Ray is winning (though that number declined sharply after Paramount and DreamWorks jumped ship)"

 

You can't be serious. Blu-ray is still winning. Do you bother to look at statistics before you write anything? The number did not decline at all after the Par announcement. The sales from the week after the announcement were down from the previous week, but up from the week before that. I'd say it didn't change at all. And this still means Blu-ray outsold HD DVD by more than 2:1. So, it is fair to say Blu-ray is still winning. And at IFA Blu-ray announced two more supporters, Hualu and Acer. Looks liek Blu-ray gained support after the Par announcement...

 

"if you really step back, youll realize all it is doing is ensuring HD-DVD doesnt win either"

 

Again, you have to have no clue about the history of Blu-ray and HD DVD to make this ridiculous claim. HD DVD was developed as a reaction to Blu-ray when most of the DVD Forum companies joined the BDA. So, HD DVD is at fault for not letting Blu-ray win. Also, HD DVD had only lead the high-def market for the 6 months before most of the Blu-ray companies started releasing product -including Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, Fox and Disney. Blu-ray was officially released 1 month after HD DVD, but it really didn't launch until 5 months after HD DVD and then lead the market within a month of its release, and is growing even faster than HD DVD. It took Blu-ray 1 year to make 1 million sales and 3 more months to make the second million. HD DVD is still not at 2 million and Blu-ray is pushing 2.5 million already. The fact that every major CE company supports Blu-ray except Toshiba, and every major studio supported Blu-ray except for Universal (before the Paramount pay-off), it was definitely HD DVD holding Blu-ray back from being the next gen format of choice. HD DVD is at fault for everything you are claiming Blu-ray is doing.

 

And it's funny that you're claiming Blu-rays claims of interactivity are useless considering HD DVD's only claim is their interactivity features are fully developed already. Of course when Blu-ray is mature, their interactivity will, in fact, be much more powerful considering it is a programming language, not XML.

 

But Blu-ray also outdoes HD DVD in bandwidth (how much data can be read per second is nearly 1.5x faster, meaning less compression is needed), scratch proof surface, is native 1080p/24 while HD DVD is native 1080p/30 (video rate, not film rate).

 

You also claim that Blu-ray has to have support from its parent company to survive. So does HD DVD. Toshiba is subsidising their players to sell (and they're barely outselling Blu-ray players) which has effectively elbowed out any other companies from releasing HD DVD players because they can't compete on price (RCA dropped HD DVD support).

 

Maybe next time you write an article, you'll actually use some facts instead of making stuff up, lying and generally being a douche.

Sep 3, 2007 5:50 PM Guest Dave  says:

Goodness... someone doesn't mind showing off their complete ignorance.

 

It is simply hard to believe the author has the guts to publish this piece when he clearly has no idea what the facts are.

 

If this doesn't sink whatever career and/or credibility he may have I don't know what would.

Sep 3, 2007 5:58 PM Guest blubawllz  says:

wait a while and you bluboyz will see the effects of the paramount switch. Transformers shreck zodiac gladiator and many more on top of universal's great library. and soon to be disney after the delayed 1.1 blu-ray players .

Sep 3, 2007 6:03 PM Guest Stew4HD  says:

What a bunch of cry babies! Are all of you BD whiny kids from BD.com? This is the same bunch that is boyvotting Paramount/DW, asking members to call in with nasty phone calls.. all over a disc, an over-priced gaming machine, over priced stand alone players and then scream that HD DVD should have never existed....? No wonder people are starting to call Bluray, BLOW ray.

Sep 3, 2007 6:15 PM Guest DRGdu  says:

Paramont junped ship for millions of dollars - if that is HD DVD "not standing on your own" what is

Sep 3, 2007 6:16 PM Guest Sergio L.  says:

WOW,

 

You guys should all be in the market business since you know better =o).  Rob is a nobody even though he has more experience then all of us put together.  You think Sony is nothing paying 20th century?  I guess were gonna have to wait & see.

Sep 3, 2007 6:24 PM Guest Hockeytown fan  says:

As a filmmaker I and my colleagues agree that it is time for a new disc format. I have already worked with both Blu ray and HD DVD and to tell you the truth I have really dropped blu ray all together. Its not a durable disc it doesnt hold as much data  as is touted,its cheap and tacky. Is it a step forward? YES, but HD DVD is a giant leap and thats what the movie industry needs.

Sep 3, 2007 6:25 PM Guest Sergio L.  says:

Ops type O,

 

What I was trying to say is, do you ladies & gentlemen think that 20th Century is doing Sony a favor for free by releasing there movies in Blu Ray only?  There is not such thing as Free, but Im sure you guys already know that

Sep 3, 2007 6:25 PM Guest blubawllz  says:

go back to blu-gay.com and post the link to this article so more of you blue zombies can show the general public how fanatical you really are.

Sep 3, 2007 6:26 PM Guest daryl  says:

Come on guys/gals this is the blogges opinion just becuase you have been sold a half finished product and you don't like competition as it might mean your player would be obselete , just be quite and wait for time to show a winner.  just because someone posted their opinion on the format war doesn't mean you got to say that is a bunch of ****.

 

For the person who said hd dvd should not of existed have you ever heard of evolution? hd dvd is an evolution of the dvd format. Also hd dvd was developed before blue ray.

 

You can't say that the PS3 wouldn't of had a greater  number of units sold if the blue ray drive wasn't included  .

 

The ignorance of many blue ray supporters is unbelievable, you believe the BDA our the one and only. You would never believe that they pay other companies off to support their format as well, money is the key to companies  and also makes the world go round.

Sep 3, 2007 6:52 PM Guest Jake  says:

blubawllz  you do realize that paramount only has 11 movies in the top 100 highest grossing movies ever and 3 of those are owned by Lucas so only 8 well be exlusive to hd-dvd and frankly most of paramounts movies suck

Sep 3, 2007 7:13 PM Guest Jon  says:

I really enjoyed the article. It's very professionally written (moreso than I can say for most of the comments) and the content is spot-on. All of the whiners who have been commenting are probably Blu-Ray fanboys, especially PS3 owners who are bitter. HD-DVD will most likely win for exactly the reasons that Rob Enderle outlined. Many people can't understand business and manufacturing factors such as those; they can only understand whether their video game system can play the latest Will Ferrell shlock. This was a very good, spot-on article, Rob.

Sep 3, 2007 7:21 PM Guest Doublehelix  says:

Great article! In the whole scheme of things, I'm glad blu-ray existed and sony is there with their stubborn arrogance so that the cots of Hd-Dvd players are decreasing at a fast rate. However, it is time for them to bury it along with UMD, MD, betamax formats. The only consumers that supports Blu-Ray are those who are SONY gaming console fanboys or the brainwashed. Do I really care that a disc holds 50 gigs? no, I do not as long as the hd-dvd is sufficient to give me 1080p movies. What I care about is cost, first and foremost.

Sep 3, 2007 7:39 PM Guest Cheng1  says:

You are so biased man. I don't how much the hd dvd camp is paying you to spread this bull, but shame on you man. Right now the consumer is winning when company's compete.

Sep 3, 2007 7:43 PM Guest Foxfan  says:

Why is Blu-Ray being blamed? Toshiba should be blamed! In fact, Blu-Ray was invented FIRST (going back to at least 2002), as a significant step up from DVD. It was only later that Toshiba announced it would be developping a cheaper alternative (that only goes halfway) called AOD. I don't mind paying more for something if I know it will last me for a while, rather than pay less for something I'll have to change in only a couple of years because of its limited capacity. You can't even fit 2 hours of broadcast HD (19.4Mbps) on a so-called "HD-DVD disc (100 minutes would be the max)! I'm sick of people encouraging this company which has constantly been dumbing-down and cheapening-down of electronics, whether it's their TVs, "HD-DVD", or even their standard DVD players... (I work at a major big box electronics retailer and you should see the amount of defective Toshiba crap that gets returned to us! I'd trust a knock off "Walmart-type" brands for than I'd trust Toshiba!)

Sep 3, 2007 7:48 PM Guest john  says:

wow Doublehelix

you want to talk about brainwashing there is no difference in viewing from 1080p and 720p its all brainwashing that bigger and higher resolution is better unless you have a screen that is 56" or bigger because the picture has to cover more surface and to get full benefit out of it you have to sit at least  12 to 16 feet away

 

size of TV

 

20 to 27-inch   2.5 to 5       feet away

32 to 37-inch   6 to 8

42 to 46-inch   10 to 14

52 to 56-inch    12 to 16

 

and frankly calling someone a Sony fanboy Microsoft fanboy or hddvd fanboy is just plain stupid

 

i think its funny when people get so upset because some one supports one company over another. to call someone that is just a way to try and piss them off because you prefer another company come up with a logical rebuttal not a 5 year old name calling.

Sep 3, 2007 8:19 PM Guest ferpstein  says:

Wow, a lot of haterade here.

 

In fact, this article is quite well-reasoned. Sony should have realized that the cost of Blu-Ray was too high to reach widespread adoption and achieve critical mass in an acceptable time-frame.  Perhaps they should have value-engineered Blu-Ray to be more cost-competitive with HD-DVD. Blu-Ray's moderately greater storage capacity doesn't warrant spending twice as much for a player. Either format can fit a full-length HD movie, and that's all 99% of consumers care about. My guess is that consumers will go for $200 HD-DVD players in droves during this coming holiday season.

Sep 3, 2007 8:32 PM Guest John J. Puccio  says:

I don't want to get involved in the format-war debate, but I think it's interesting to note that two comments, the first by Daniel Maitland at 2:13 p.m. and the second by Hockeytown fan at 6:24 p.m., are identical.

 

Kind of makes you wonder....

Sep 3, 2007 8:43 PM Guest johnmat1980  says:

"Despite the desperate attempts by HD-DVD, blu ray is still rocking the world by storm, gaining the leading publisher in China and it now has three of the major PC manufacturers under its belt. Its time for a new disc format and its going to be blu ray."

 

"As a filmmaker I and my colleagues agree that it is time for a new disc format. I have already worked with both Blu ray and HD DVD and to tell you the truth I have really dropped blu ray all together. Its not a durable disc it doesnt hold as much data as is touted,its cheap and tacky. Is it a step forward? YES, but HD DVD is a giant leap and thats what the movie industry needs."

 

John J Puccio, how are these two posts identical?

Sep 3, 2007 8:51 PM Guest kk  says:

Bluray is better than HD DVD in terms of storage and HD output, how can somebody denied this fact and said consumers don't care, well I CARE! What I don't really care about is the price.  Many complained about the higher price of BD, but price of the media and player will come down as product matures and then soon enough you'll have a more superior product vs the more inferior HD DVD.

Sep 3, 2007 8:55 PM Guest GQ  says:

This guy is the biggest tool i've seen.  Man did he come off looking like a complete idiot..haha

Sep 3, 2007 9:11 PM Guest What!?  says:

You really grasping for straws if you think Paramount switching camps make a difference. How many HD-DVD players are they going to sell?

 

Uh. none.

 

The PS3 being blu ray ready ended the debate. In three years everybody who owns a Ps2 will have upgraded to a PS3 and that means blu ray will be in a lot of households without having to shell out cash for a separate player.

 

Game over for HD-DVD.

Sep 3, 2007 9:18 PM Guest John J. Puccio  says:

Let me rephrase that:  The second comment is almost identical but reworded to be parody of the first comment.  But are either of the writers really filmmakers?  Makes me wonder.

 

Comment by Daniel Maitland  September 3, 2007 at 

As a filmmaker I and my colleagues agree that it is time for a new disc format. I have already worked with both Blu ray and HD DVD and to tell you the truth I have really dropped HD DVD all together. It's not a durable disc it doesn't hold as much data its cheap and tacky. Is it a step forward? YES, but blu ray is a giant leap and that's what the movie industry needs.

 

Comment by Hockeytown fan  September 3, 2007 at 

As a filmmaker I and my colleagues agree that it is time for a new disc format. I have already worked with both Blu ray and HD DVD and to tell you the truth I have really dropped blu ray all together. It's not a durable disc it doesn't hold as much data as is touted,its cheap and tacky. Is it a step forward? YES, but HD DVD is a giant leap and that's what the movie industry needs.

Sep 3, 2007 9:25 PM Guest Disgusted  says:

What a bunch of degenerate thugs!  You should be ashamed of yourselves.  I cannot believe that people would attack someone this viciously just for airing an opinion they don't agree with.  There is no excuse for the hatred and bile being expressed here.  Anonymity and the internet seems to make opinionated jerks into raving lunatics sometimes and this is about the worst I've come across in years.

 

Honestly, you'd think there were lives at stake such is the personal investment people seem to have in this stuff.

 

After all, when people talk about "winning" they're talking about coming a massively distant second with third close on it's heels.  This is a race to be first loser.

Sep 3, 2007 9:32 PM Guest Matt  says:

Seems like this article stirred up a lot of passions in the Sony/Blu-ray consumer psyche. They sound like people who are really scared, as they should be. Listen up, you guys, you better sell your PS3s and Blu-ray players now before they aren't worth a dime (just like Laserdisc players).  Everything to do with Blu-ray is cursed and the tables are turning.

Sep 3, 2007 10:48 PM Guest boss  says:

i'd fire you. like, right now.

Sep 3, 2007 11:12 PM Guest Mike  says:

Dear Rob

 

Wow! Dont be discouraged by the Blu-ray retards who are writing here - they can't open their eyes and learn the truth - to them Blu-ray is like some type of God, way beyond criticism.  You say a hell of a lot of sensible things.  To me the problem with Blur-ray is its too expensive, forced on the market as a trojan horse, ie anti-choice, not DVD association standard or approved, not as high quality as HD DVD (check out the AV reviews), higher costs to produce, higher cost players. For all these reasons Blur-ray will fail.  Like someone said its only holdling on now because of the small number of PS3 fans who can't really do anything more with their overpriced toy than play a Blu-ray disc.  regards Mike

Sep 3, 2007 11:30 PM Guest charmed  says:

All you cheap a$$es who say hd dvd is better just because it's cheaper can just go to Sparta and have your butts kicked by King Leonidas to a well.

Sep 4, 2007 12:26 AM Guest masi  says:

Unfortunately is too biased against blu ray even though it has a lot of logical points. The fact that Rob you never criticize   HD DVD  makes your article not credible. You don't  question why  Paramount and Disney's reasons for defecting to HD DVD despite the fact that in the August video sales the only Paramount and Disney movies in the top ten are both Blu Ray. Why not point that out Rob? Your article if clearly pro HD DVD though I dont support the personal attacks on you.

Sep 4, 2007 12:30 AM Guest masi  says:

Unfortunately your article is too biased against blu ray even though it has a lot of logical points. The fact that Rob you never criticize   HD DVD  makes your article not credible. You don't  question  Paramount and Disney's reasons for defecting to HD DVD despite the fact that in the August video sales the only Paramount and Disney movies in the top ten are both Blu Ray. Why not point that out Rob? Why not point out the fact that Blu Ray movies are clearly outselling the same titles in HD DVD format. I dont like your  as it is clearly pro HD DVD though I dont support the personal attacks on you.

Sep 4, 2007 12:45 AM Guest BlackTiger  says:

Funny comments!

Geeks speaking about ordinary user needs! Very funny.

 

SONY WILL fail! Just because it's SONY. They were born in wrong time. Look back into history. Beta, MiniDisc, UMD. SONY never was a successful standards establisher. PS2 you say? Yes and no. PS2 in the it's beginning never has a real competitor. And it's price is lower than it's cost. Not quite fair, BTW.

 

You can connect everything to your PS3?. Ok, good for you. Connect your iron and dishwasher to your PS3 and be happy. But people (again, except geeks) don't need "all-in-one" devices. Am I wrong? But how many of you have universal remote controls to control video/audio/TV/whatever  in your house? Global market is driven by ordinary Joe, not by Joe The Geek.

 

All SONY products are extremely expensive. Not because of quality of product, but because of "SONY" label on it. Quality is same as SAMSUNG/LG. Same parts, same factories, same chineese people. Some sort of Mercedes (not Bentley) in the world of consumer electronics.

 

Ofcoz, BR death will not be quick. I bet on 5-10 years. But it will disappear. Probably they will fail even together with HDDVD, because China will release something cheap with same functionality as BR/HD. Perhaps...

Sep 4, 2007 1:18 AM Guest WillDr  says:

Great article.  It may have been a little harsh, but it was very forward thinking.  Though I think BR is superior to HD-DVD, HD-DVD is going to eventually win this thing...if  another superior format doesn't emerge before the dust settles.

Sep 4, 2007 2:14 AM Guest Innocent bystander  says:

Looks like this guy is an unemployed "consultant". Doesn't take much effort to figure out why.

Sep 4, 2007 2:31 AM Guest Dee Jay  says:

Thanks for an excellent article Rob. The slew of negativity is nothing more than a concerted campaign by the Blu Ray Association sending out the fan boys in a desperate attempt to smear you since they have so much to lose. I see it in Forums, which are heavily populated by Blu Ray plants there to post any sort of half-truth or blatant lie to try to salvage what's left of their reputation.

If Warner could just hurry up and do what is the only safe and sure way to move the industry towards mass adoption of a format that is best for all.

D

Sep 4, 2007 3:57 AM Guest Matt  says:

Wow.  Some extremely rude and uncalled for comments in here.  I'm very sorry your mother didn't teach you any manners or class.

Sep 4, 2007 4:16 AM Guest jojo  says:

damn... but seriously if its sony is bad if its toshiba is good...hmmm

Sep 4, 2007 4:46 AM Guest LDubbzo  says:

Jeez bluray folks are a wily bunch.  Its just a disc folks.  Rob even said himself he thought bluray to be superior originally as well.  Paramount and DreamWorks were smart enough to bail from a sinking ship.  In case you didnt know, bluray discs are more expensive to manufacture.  BR's tiny sales advantage is literally nothing in scope of the big picture.  Keep in mind that 300's DVD sales in its first week surpassed lifetime sales of BR and HD DVD combined.  So this thing has just started.  As someone who is extremely familiar with Sony and their formats, i can tell u they have another loser on their hands.

Sep 4, 2007 5:31 AM Guest rj  says:

the replies from blu ray fans on here are simply astonishing. Have you got to such a low in your life that you feel the need to support a tech company with the same enthusiasm people used to support their nation with in WW2? To call you people pathetic is the understatement of the decade. Does your dad get proud knowing you have stooped to such levels? Get a life. Really. His main point is Blu Ray is priced out of the market for the masses, and he is right. No amount of driving HD-DVD into the ground or saying how good Blu Ray is or flinging appalling personal abuse at the man is going to change that.

Sep 4, 2007 6:17 AM Guest Smee  says:

Well said.

Laughable to read all the blu ray fools who have bought the sony corporate lies and have been taken in and responded with such fanaticism.

Blu ray is a wok in progress betta and an  over priced joke, how can you all wank on like you are?

You have all been stuck with crap quality expensive players that mostly wont be compatible with new BD standards, yet you support this betta version for what reason?? More capacity, capacity means nothing.

You should all be pissed with sony for sticking you all with such a crap unfinished product and saved your venom for them instead.

Sep 4, 2007 6:22 AM Guest JS  says:

QUOTE: "the replies from blu ray fans on here are simply astonishing. Have you got to such a low in your life that you feel the need to support a tech company with the same enthusiasm people used to support their nation with in WW2?"

 

No, people are commenting because this article (I refuse to call it journalism) is nothing more than propoganda... you know, like the stuff used in WW2

 

QUOTE: "His main point is Blu Ray is priced out of the market for the masses, and he is right. "

 

If he (the author)  had any clue, he would have mentioned that first generation DVD players were also in the $800-$1000 range. People will pay what they feel it is worth to THEM. Point and case, Paramount/Dreamworks felt it was WORTH it to them to accept $150 mil from the HD-DVD camp to solely support HD-DVD (Fact, not opinion, Google it).

 

I don't proclaim BR as the hands down, ultimate HD solution, but, my god... just what is the going rate from Team HD-DVD these days??

 

Pathetic Article.

Sep 4, 2007 6:43 AM Guest Smee  says:

Good article Mr Enderle, well said

Great to see someone has got the balls to say it how it is. It is amazing that the BD group can do what ever they want, whenever they want and not ruffle any feathers. Sony can try to monopolize the market in any way they see fit and that's perfectly OK

But as soon as someone speaks out against the evil empire, the poison that flows from the BD group is astounding.

What is said in this article from a business perspective is quite correct, at the end of the day sony will cut this tree down quick smart as soon as the losses become are big enough.

The sales numbers BD are achieving are not anywhere near enough to sustain a viable business model given the much greater costs involved with manafacturing of BD and the failure of the PS3. Thats why Paramount has given BD the arse,  not because of a BD inspired conspiracy theory (even though it's quite OK for sony to do the same) ,   but from a business point of view, they could not justify the losses any longer.

My guess would be at this point, HD DVD also represents a loss, just not anywhere near as much as BR represents , even at 2:1 sales because of the exorbitant manufacturing costs associated with BR, so you slanderous BR fanboys should tone your abuse down, because at 1% or there abouts of the DVD market, that MUST  represent a major loss to all BD affiliates.

The sony spin said the market was there for the taking, HD DVD would be crushed overnight ,  and the market domination BD would have in a short space of time would mean a huge cake to be shared with the BD faithful. Problem is BR is a betta product, to expensive and HD DVD aint going anywhere soon.

There must be some very nervous senior management at Fort Fumble-Sony HQ.... 1%market share at this point in time=massive BR losses........ i hear the chainsaw in the distance.

Sep 4, 2007 6:46 AM Guest Thundercrash07  says:

Can some of you HD-DVD trolls give me some of whatever you're smoking?

Sep 4, 2007 7:37 AM Guest Steve  says:

Another useless paid propaganda article by Rob Enderle

 

How can this man even look at himself in the mirror each morning knowing that he is without a doubt the most clueless and laughed at industry analyst on the entire internet?

 

Rob Enderle: predicting the downfall of Apple since 1995.

 

http://www.bynkii.com/archives/2006/06/rob_enderle_is_an_idiot_pt_xxl.html

Sep 4, 2007 7:53 AM Guest Johnny Appleseed  says:

I'd go Blu-Ray if not for Sony.

I'd go HD-DVD if not for Microsoft.

Maybe I'll just plump for iTunes HD when it comes. Bring on Wednesday!

Sep 4, 2007 8:03 AM Guest Phil  says:

It's about time someone calls it the way it is instead of seating on the fence as most other reporters do. When are you Blue Ray fan boys going to start facing the truth? It's no better than HD DVD at twice the price. Who cares about capacity, features and all that other crap. People just want to watch movies. I don't care who wins. Personally I like to see Sony go broke. Only idiots would support BR and Sony.

Good article Rob. Write more.

Sep 4, 2007 8:05 AM Guest Carl  says:

The fact of the matter here is that PS3 owners (AKA hardcore games,  fanboys, etc.) are keeping the console alive by buying Blu-ray moviesas there are no gamesand visa-versa.

 

On the other hand, those purchasing HD DVD are doing so mainly because of a lower price.  Though, it is safe to say that this side also has fanboys.

 

Back to Sony, there are more PS3 owners (harcore gamers) than there are regular Joe's buying HD DVD's.   And this is happening because there is more studio support--and in case you didn't know, yes, they are also getting paid just as Paramount is by the competition.

 

I personally don't own any of these formats and don't plan to anytime soon, not until there's a unified technology, though that day will never come to pass.  Crazy-a$$ war!  Estupid0s aficionados!  I the blame on Sony and Toshiba, however.  It's not your fault.  But then again, you deserve to lose your money in which format you've already invested on, for being a dumb-a$$, early adopter.

 

The PS3 is dead; Blu-ray will the thing of the past which never quite reached maturity; and HD DVD will be gone before it was allowed take off--as HDTV's are still too expensive for the average Joe to support the demand necessary for HD disc media to be profitable.  As of yet, good ol' fashion DVD's are the norm, with sales that leave both Blu-ray and HD DVD in the dust on life support! 

 

Like or not, a wise, black man once said: Holla!

 

Hahaha...Losers!

Sep 4, 2007 8:12 AM Guest BlackTiger  says:

Possible HDDVD and BR "killer" - HD VMD. Player for 180EUR only.

Source: http://www.nmeinc.com/index.aspx

Sep 4, 2007 8:16 AM Guest Carl  says:

The fact of the matter here is that PS3 owners (AKA hardcore games,  fanboys, etc.) are keeping the console alive by buying Blu-ray movies -- as there are no games -- and visa-versa.

 

On the other hand, those purchasing HD DVD are doing so mainly because of a lower price.  Though, it is safe to say that this side has fanboys also.

 

Back to Sony, there are more PS3 owners (harcore gamers) than there are regular Joe's buying HD DVD's.   And this is happening because there is more studio support -- and in case you didn't know, yes, they too are getting paid just as Paramount is by the competition.

 

I personally don't own any of these formats and don't plan to anytime soon, not until there's a unified technology, though that day will never come to pass.  Crazy-a$$ war!  And $tupid fanatics!  I put the blame on Sony and Toshiba, however.  It's not your fault.  But then again, you deserve to lose your money in which format you've already invested on,  dumb-a$$, early adopters, for putting your hard-earned dollars where they don't belong!

 

The PS3 is dead; Blu-ray will the thing of the past which never quite reached maturity; and HD DVD will be gone before it was allowed take off -- as HDTV's are still too expensive for the average Joe to warrant the demand needed for HD disc media to be profitable.  As of yet, good ol' fashion DVD's are the norm, with sales that surpass both Blu-ray and HD DVD put together:  they're on life support, baby.

 

Like or not, my friends...a wise, black man once said: Holla!

 

Hahaha...y'all should have seen that coming...Losers!!

Sep 4, 2007 8:25 AM Guest Carl  says:

Pathetic losers!

 

The fact of the matter here is that PS3 owners (AKA hardcore games,  fanboys, etc.) are keeping the console alive by buying Blu-ray movies -- as there are no games -- and visa-versa.

 

On the other hand, those purchasing HD DVD are doing so mainly because of a lower price.  Though, it is safe to say that this side has fanboys also.

 

Back to Sony, there are more PS3 owners (harcore gamers) buying Blu-ray movies than there are regular Joe's buying HD DVD's simply because there are people with PS3 consoles.   Sure, there is more studio support -- and in case you didn't know, yes, they too are getting paid just as Paramount is by the competition.

 

I personally don't own any of these formats and don't plan to anytime soon, not until there's a unified technology, though that day will never come to pass.  Crazy-a$$ war!  And stupid fanatics!  I put the blame on Sony and Toshiba, however.  It's not your fault.  But then again, you deserve to lose your money in which format you've already invested on,  dumb-a$$, early adopters, for putting your hard-earned dollars where they don't belong yet!

 

The PS3 is dead; Blu-ray will the thing of the past which never quite reached maturity (lousy profiles & worst java integration); and HD DVD will be gone before it was allowed take off (suffers from limited space & slower bandwidth).  Plus, HDTV's are still too expensive for the average Joe to warrant the demand needed for HD disc media to be profitable.  As of yet, good ol' fashion DVD's good enough, as are the norm, with sales that surpass both Blu-ray and HD DVD put together:  can you say life support??

 

Like or not, my friends...a wise, black man once said: "Holla!"  That's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

Hahaha...y'all should have seen that coming...Losers!!

Sep 4, 2007 8:30 AM Guest BlackTiger  says:

HD-VMD guys can make one very clever thing.

They will produce discs by self buying only "allowance" from movie studios and paying royalties only. They will not ask studios to use their format. For studios it will cost absolutely nothing.

Sep 4, 2007 8:35 AM Guest Lalo  says:

Please, please get a live HD DVD fanboys -- especially you, Blu-ray fanatics!

 

The fact of the matter here is that PS3 owners (AKA hardcore games, fanboys, etc.) are keeping the console alive by buying Blu-ray movies  as there are no games  and visa-versa.

 

On the other hand, those purchasing HD DVD are doing so mainly because of a lower price. Though, it is safe to say that this side has fanboys also.

 

Back to Sony, there are more PS3 owners (harcore gamers) buying Blu-ray movies than there are regular Joes buying HD DVDs simply because there are more people with PS3 consoles.  Period.  Sure, there is more studio support  and in case you didnt know, yes, they too are getting paid just as Paramount is by the competition.

 

I personally dont own any of these formats and dont plan to anytime soon, not until theres a unified technology, though that day will never come to pass. Crazy-a$$ war! And stupid fanatics! I put the blame on Sony and Toshiba, however. Its not your fault. But then again, you deserve to lose your money in which format youve already invested on, dumb-a$$, early adopters, for putting your hard-earned dollars where they dont belong yet!

 

The PS3 is dead; Blu-ray will the thing of the past which never quite reached maturity (lousy profiles & worst java integration); and HD DVD will be gone before it was allowed take off (suffers from limited space & slower bandwidth). Plus, HDTVs are still too expensive for the average Joe to warrant the demand needed for HD disc media to be profitable. As of yet, good ol fashion DVDs good enough, as are the norm, with sales that surpass both Blu-ray and HD DVD put together: can you say life support??

 

Like or not, my friendsa wise, black man once said: Holla!

 

Hahahayall should have seen that comingLosers!!

 

Now, back to things that really matter like world peace, for instance.

Sep 4, 2007 8:35 AM Guest BlackTiger  says:

BTW, SONY needs larger capacity of BD because of ancient MPEG2 video codec. They just need more space to store same quality video as HD doing with VC-1 codec!

Sep 4, 2007 8:37 AM Guest simple32  says:

Blu ray failure? HAHAHA

Look at the opportunities it raises in the gaming and media industry.

Your a joke, please jump off a cliff!

Sep 4, 2007 8:41 AM Guest simple32  says:

BlackTiger Blu ray can actually use VC-1 codec champ!

Sep 4, 2007 8:52 AM Guest OldieKindaGuy  says:

Not being a Bluray fan and not being an HD fan, just as a simple consumer I have some points to make that werent considered or where considered badly by the article:

I simply don't care who wins I do care whats best for me, as simple as buying a player now and don't care anymore spending my money again on it!

But for now and due to the changing of paramount to the HD camp I would have to go with Bluray. I know seams strange, the decision, but looking at the business of falling technologies there always as desperate attempt to revive the technology. Yes OS/2 is a good example but has a comparison to HD. Need to invest million of dollars to gain mass/supporters isnt and never will be a good sign of a winning technology.

 

Being in my thirties and I think most buyers in this age will have the same felling I will describe. If I went out now and had to buy a player I would go with PS3, for the simple reason I get more bang for buck, reasons:

1st) I dont want to buy a simple player and have all the crap in my leaving room of gadgets, no thanks, I prefer to invest the money and get a do all in one and looking at the possibilities PS3 is the best choice.

2nd) Xbox 360 + HD is more expensive and in TOTAL has fewer games. I us to play games (couple years ago) now simply dont have the time for it. Not owning a console in all this years, I have to say that prefer the total games that I could play with PS3 (being that supports PS2 games). I feel so old that the really good games coming out dont make an impression on me Im somewhat of an oldies fan

3th) I see really more expansion ground for BluRay. I have to laugh when the article and some posters say that the extra space given by blue ray is not needed. Not enumerating how many times failure to predict the growth as occurred in the industry. I will just have to paraphrase the most known one: 640Kb will be enough!

 

To finish.

In my opinion the article is somewhat wrong on the PS3 + BluRay analysis:

I would have to say that bundling a BluRay with PS3 is the key point, because when most people in the future fell the need for buying a player they will notice that they already have one at home is PS3 that they bough for the kids to play so why spend money, cant say the same about XBox. So in the end Sony sacrificed the PS3 to make BluRay successful  yes truebut who cares.

 

 

Behind HD to win (like then best, except M$) but since no side is giving monyI have to choose whats best for me!

Sep 4, 2007 10:03 AM Guest osage  says:

I am not a technical person, nor am I an audiophile or a videophile.  Before very recently purchasing a hi-def player, I read every blog, review and industry article I could find on Blu-ray and HD DVD.  Before doing so, I went to Best Buy, Circuit City and Frys Electric to compare image quality and pricing.  All I cared about was upgrading to HD, which is where the average consumer is today.  Gaming and the esoterics of bandwidth, fps, color saturation and profile 1.1 were not relevant factors for me.  I learned that Blu-ray players and movies generally cost more than their HD DVD counterparts.  Did that mean that Blu-ray offered me discernable better image quality than HD DVD?  No, it did not.  Did that mean that Blu-ray offered me discernable better sound quality than HD DVD?  No, it did not.   Did that mean that Blu-ray was a more mature, bugless and future-proofed technology?  No, it did not.   Did that mean that, from an ordinary consumer's perspective, there were any practical advantages or financial incentives for me to pay more for a Blu-ray player than an HD-DVD player?  No, it did not.  Based on what I saw and learned after considerable reasearch, and because I had the means to do so, I ultimately purchased a Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD player for $536.00.  Had I not had the means, or had I not made the effort and spent the time learning about video processing and audio formatting capabilities, firmware upgrades, HDMI 1.3 and 1080p, ethernet connectivity,  compliance standards and future proofing, I would have purchased the entry level Toshiba HD-A2.  I was an uniformed and unbiased consumer who wanted to make an informed decision in a very confusing marketplace.  I don't believe the average consumer is going to make the effort I did.  However, I do believe that most of them will attempt to do a side-by-side visual comparison, and based on equal image quality and lower pricing, they will opt for an HD DVD player.  Frankly, I don't see how Blu-ray can sustain the early advantage they've gained via the PS3 and marketing hype thus far once the mass market is forced to address the conversion to hi-def TV in 2009.  Based on the practical considerations and choices the average consumer is faced with, why would they choose to pay more than they have to?

Sep 4, 2007 10:40 AM Guest Footloose301  says:

Rob..... I am really at a loss of words for you. You are completely mis-informed and have NO idea what you're talking about. Blu-ray is crushing HD DuD into the ground in sales and has come down so much in price that people are buying them up like you wouldn't believe. Also, you want to talk about price huh? How come HD DuD movies are $35 -40 where as Blu-ray are $25-30? You're obviously getting paid thru Toshiba or your head is completlely stuck up your ass. Blu-ray players are down to $400 for starters which makes it very competitive with HD DuD which is why people are buying it and sales of blu-ray discs are leaping right over HD DuD. Wake the f*ck up. I hate you people trying to brain wash and misinform people. It's not right at all. Let the consumer make the choice on their own. I did. I own both actually. Bought the HD DuD for the XBOX360 and then seen the light and HD DuD had a small future ahead of them and bought a blu-ray player. Heck, the Panasonic Blu-ray player you even get some incentives. 5 of the TOP hit movies IN THE BOX. Also, you get 5 additional movies by mail. Crawl back in your hole and use the money Toshiba gave to help breast cancer or the starving children in Africa.

Sep 4, 2007 10:54 AM Guest HDDVDnet  says:

Mr. Enderle has written a well thought out article and altough I think it is light on the tech details I believe this is due to being based for a broader reading audience that may not be as tech savy as some of us here.

 

I applaud Rob Enderle in a large part because he did keep an open mind and was not afraid to change his stance in the format/product he endorsed when he did feel differently about it.

 

Many of us believed in Blu-ray soley by its specs and have been disappointed to date by the reality of what is actually being released and sadly there are many of us still excusing the many problems of the format rather then admitting there is a problem and demanding it to be fixed.

 

As someone who does own players from both formats I am much happier with my HD DVD player that has superior quality, superior interactivity, more features and more movies available then Blu-ray.

 

As a consumer who has invested in players from both formats, I would love the opportunity discuss my opinions, likes and dislikes about both formats with Mr. Enderle either publicly or privately.

 

I think it might serve as an interesting point of view from someone who does not work in the industry but is technically aware of what is going on and has personal experience with both.

Sep 4, 2007 11:03 AM Guest nemesis  says:

OMG this guy is a fricking moron.  My Iq just dropped from reading this crap and if anyone here actually knows the real numbers you know this is all BS.  Blu-Ray is far superior to HD-DVD for one look at the storage capacity?

Sep 4, 2007 12:08 PM Guest McPlot  says:

Wow, look at all the PS3 fans with Blu-Balls!

 

The one guy who said "I have a PS3 but I don't use it to play movies" sums it up nicely. Take away the PS3 sales as blu-Ray player says and you have almost nothing. Most people with game systems do not use it to play movies.  Most people I know with a PS3 don't even own a HDTV.

 

Face it, BOTH formats have advantages. In some ways, both suck. Where HD DVD is going to have a hugh avantage is when the sub $200 players come out THIS YEAR! That is the price point that got people to start buying DVD players.

 

And to clear up some confusion given by a Blu-Baller.

 

BOTH formats are able to do the SAME picture quality with 1080P outputs. 

The confusion comes from:

The first Gen HD DVD players only did 1080i. This was to try to keep cost down and most HDTV's at the time were only 1080i. The HD DVD disc themselves have always been encoded at 1080p. The current gen HD DVD players do have 1080P outputs.

 

Features do matter to many people. HD DVD has more, and since all HD DVD players must be able to connect to the internet, they are able to download more even after the Disc has been pressed. Plus, features are easier to create in a HD DVD then on a Blu-Ray.

 

Blu-Ray sort of is larger. Until the movie "Click" was released, Sony was only able to mass produce a 25g blu-ray disc while HD DVD was already at 30gb. Since most companies were using MPEG2 (the same as DVD's use) for encoding, the pre "Click" movies on Blu-Ray were actually low quality since MPEG2 cannot fit an entire 1080p HD movie into 25gb. But that was not really Sony's fault (other then their own movies). More and more have been moving to VC1 with Blu-Ray, which is what most HD DVD's were to start with.

 

Sony may be saying 200gb disc, but they are having a hard enough time with the 50gb now. A triple layer HD DVD will be 45gb. Only a 5g difference. But that really DOES NOT MATTER!

 

If you are going to store extremely large amounts of data for transport, you are going to do it on a external hard drive. Even now with DVD burners, companies do not transport the data via DVD much. When they do, it is a few gigs of data. More then a CD could hold, but much less then a DVD can do now. With VPN's and high speed internet connections (getting faster all the time), most companies transfer the data across the country via the internet. They do not mail disc much. So while Blu-Ray can hold more data, it does not matter. Current HD DVD can hold 8 hours of HD content. Sounds like plenty for a movie to me.

 

Sony has promised the world, for years, and rarely delivers. So many Blu-Ballers are too young to remember Betamax. Better picture then VHS but lost that format war do to higher priced players and higher cost to movie makers. Sony owned Betamax by the way, and UMD, and Minidisc, and several other formats that never took off.

 

Sony does have more movie studios, but they own most of them, like Columbia. Why would a movie studio owned by Sony do anything but Blu-Ray?

 

Sony is the KING of payoffs. You don't think Disney said they are only making Blu-Ray movies because they believe in it? The Paramont deal was not for just cash, and Microsoft said they had nothing to do with that deal. The $150 million most likely was partly cash, but the HD DVD camp most likely is waiving fees. This can mean more to a movie studio then cash.

 

While I do think that HD DVD has a slight advantage at the moment, a few months ago, I thought Blu-Ray did.

 

Let me put it this way. There was a format ware between two 56k dial up standards,  Flex and X2 in mid 1990's. What is the 56k dial up standard today? V.92 .......

Sep 4, 2007 12:29 PM Guest Mark  says:

This is not a debate of which is better.  BD may be a better technology but the question is who will win?  I think it will be HD-DVD simply because consumers will consume more of them than BD players.  Beta Max was a superior product but they did not win that either.  New technology has to be readily offered to all not just the "techno buffs" who will spend anything just to say "I have this cool new thing" which seems to me like most of the comments here are comming from BD techno geeks.  This is a war and in war there are no rules, so if somebody is paid or a studio is paid to support their format, then I say "do what you gotta do" to win.

Sep 4, 2007 1:11 PM Guest JC  says:

Rob, the Internet is a dangerous place: it exposes retardness of an individual to millions of people.

Sep 4, 2007 1:19 PM Guest mattW  says:

hilarious. this article coming from someone who had microsoft as a client, and proceeded to criticise apple AND open source software without shame. not too easily influenced then?

Sep 4, 2007 2:25 PM Guest Roberta Zimmerman  says:

I find it funny that people STILL support Sony despite all of its stupid moves over the last 10-20 years including Beta, Elcaset, memory sticks, rootkit spyware,  battery recalls (3 times!!), etc., etc. Couple that with the fact that the rate of Blu-Ray hardware and software returns is 5-10x that of HD DVD, We should pray for the failure of this redundant format.

 

I hesitate to mention that on a personal level, I have had innumerable Sony products fail prematurely including 2 TVs, 2 portable CD players, a reel-to-reel tape deck, a 2-line telephone and most recently a 400 disc CD changer. No more Sony products are allowed in our home - and that includes Blu-Ray.

 

BTW, our Toshiba TV and 3 DVD players have operated flawlessly for many years....

 

Roberta

Sep 4, 2007 2:37 PM Guest Informed Consumer  says:

Why Rob Enderle Should Never Have Existed

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Enderle

Sep 4, 2007 2:40 PM Guest DS  says:

This guy is an idiot.

Sep 4, 2007 2:45 PM Guest Informed Consumer  says:

NOT CREDIBLE

 

Quote from the New York Times regarding analysts with no credibility who hide their conflicts of interest (original link belo):

 

"The article quoted Rob Enderle, principal analyst at the Enderle Group, discussing the features that set Xbox Live service apart and its position in the market. But the article did not note that Mr. Enderle had Microsoft as a client, a fact later pointed out by a reader. Mr. Enderle does consulting work for several of Microsoft's product groups, though not for the one developing the Xbox; still, had The Times known of Mr. Enderle's work for Microsoft, it would not have sought out his opinion on the product."

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/12/analyst_nytimes/

Sep 4, 2007 3:06 PM Guest mike tha man  says:

crapmount pulled the nife from hd dvd neck.saved it 4 a while. but will die off . hopefully very soon

Sep 4, 2007 3:28 PM Guest Joseph  says:

Man....there is a lot of idiocy out there. Sure, support $ony's tech and see what happens when they own the market on this.  Expensive players, horrible quality control, disks without ANY special features (how a studio can even put out something like Spider-Man 1&2 on BRD without ANY special features and not be ashamed boggles my mind) say around a price point of oh...$40. Why not? Who's to stop them?

 

HD is trailing yet is still trying hard to please consumers. Recent disks like Heroes, Hot Fuzz, and The Matrix Trilogy were packed not only with the original SD features, but new things as well that actually (SHOCKING!) took advantage of the technology and capacity of the format. BRD touts its size, yet it doesnt matter if they squander it.

 

This whole thing should have been avoided. HD early on tried to get people on board (including Sony) and make a superior format and $ony was just too greedy. So they offer lies and incentives (if you think M$ is the only ones paying off studios, think again) because they are a selfish company.

 

I'd prefer NOT to have to pick sides, but it seems HD-DVD, even with support from the almighty M$, cares more about what I want for my money.

 

Now, I wonder how many posters here are reps from BRD studios, fanboys with no clue, or paid trolls.

Sep 4, 2007 3:45 PM Guest John H.  says:

You Sony-types...Listen, I am a buyer for a 50 store retail chain on the east coast, and there is no doubt that we sell 10 HD-DVD players for every Blu-ray. I believe that Blu-ray is slightly better than HD-DVD in terms of storage, etc., but Beta was better than VHS, too.

 

I do not believe that it is anything but blatant spinning of sales figures to say that every PS3 is being used as a Blu-ray player. Some of them, sure. But not all of them. Gamers play games. It is as simple as that.

 

And let's not forget the number of PS2's that "burned out" by being used as DVD players...I personally handled at least 100 complaints on this issue, so I know what I am talking about. Sony went so far as to claim that the PS2, while it COULD play DVD's wasn't actually INTENDED for that use. Then then they usually denied the claims and told my customer that they had to but a new PS2...So call B.S. if you want on this, I know what I heard from Sony tech support with my own ears.

 

I wish that Toshiba were more aggressive in their marketing strategy for HD-DVD. Right now, I'd give the edge in movie titles to Sony, primarily because Sony owns at least a part in many of the "hipper" movie houses. And there is truth in saying that content will win the war.

 

But the porn industry had a big deal to say in the Beta/VHS war, and I think they will here too. Say what you want about porn people being "disgusting" or "morally reprehensible", but they have their fingers on the pulse of technology (just look at the internet) and they seem to support HD-DVD over Blu-ray.

 

Oh, and the whole "Blockbuster supports Blu-ray" argument doesn't really have any teeth with me either. I agree that HD-DVD needs to get its movies into more retail outlets, but Blockbuster is far from the healthy company it used to be.

 

And of course BB is going to carry Blu-ray, they want the extra rentals from PS3 owners that can't find a game they want. But Blu-ray movies are only sold once to each Blockbuster...Rentals don't help movies houses much. Yes, every PS3 is a Blu-ray and not every Xbox 360 is an HD-DVD player...I get it. But not every PS3 gamer is a Blu-Ray consumer either and I am tired of hearing the Sony camp make that claim.

 

So I realize that I am starting to sound biased. Truth is, I am a retailer. I will sell whatever people want to buy. Right now, that is HD-DVD over Blu-ray for me. Costco, Sam's Club and other warehousers already have the HD-DVD players in my markets...Once Wal-Mart gets the movies to support the upcoming $199 HD-DVD players, I think this conversation ends...Quickly.

Sep 4, 2007 4:20 PM Guest CP  says:

...so is Toshiba paying you to write this stupid article?

Sep 4, 2007 4:29 PM Guest Clayton  says:

To the person that commented on the $199 HD-DVD players... Wal Mart has said they will NOT be carrying them.  No place in America will be carrying the cheaper Chinese HD-DVD players at this point.  As for HD-DVD being in high demand.  That may just be for where you work, because Blu-Ray seems to be selling way more every where else...

Sep 4, 2007 4:31 PM Guest Clayton  says:

Also, porn will NOT have an impact here.  It's called the internet.  People use it to look at porn everyday, and for free I might add.  No one will pay $50-$100 for an HD-DVD or a Blu-Ray porno.  Not to mention, it seems Blu-Ray has pretty much the same support for porn as HD-DVD.  Plus, should we compare the porn sales numbers to regular movie sales?  That's what I want to know...

Sep 4, 2007 4:36 PM Guest DHB  says:

"crapmount pulled the nife from hd dvd neck.saved it 4 a while. but will die off . hopefully very soon"

 

Funny because you blu-ray fanboys weren't saying that when Paramount was neutral or when you went to see Transformers opening night and raved about it all the way home.  You guys are acting as if the author of this article commited some sort of treason here... 

 

You don't have to get paid off by a company to do a little research and actually try out different players from both sides and form an opinion.  In your case you bought a PS3 and instantly supported Blu-ray without any hitch (in other words you're sony's target market).  You just know you spent $500-$600 on something and that means it should be the best and it just isn't.  Sony really has pulled one over on you folks.

Sep 4, 2007 4:44 PM Guest byron  says:

wow attack of the smurfs.  This is laughable to see so much negative feedback to an article.  So if he had said bluray would save the world he would be a hero I suppose.  Its funny to see and I will be laughing loud if bluray every goes the way of umd.

Sep 4, 2007 5:24 PM Guest Jimmy  says:

Your old and stupid shut up.

Sep 4, 2007 5:40 PM Guest DHB  says:

Seems to me that its mostly HD DVD owners giving these long detailed responses.

 

On the other side of the fence you see Blu-Ray (PS3) owners with the one line insults and nothing to backup their statements.

 

Then again most of the HD DVD owners came to pick them after carefully comparing formats, whereas Blu-ray owners just bought a PS3, knowing the bare minimum (omg mor space fur muh gamez and movaise!) without knowing all the problems of blu-ray players.  Just hide behind sales numbers.

Sep 4, 2007 6:43 PM Guest masi  says:

thanks  Informed Consumer. Now we see why Rob is so anti blu ray and Apple Computer. You would think Microsoft were Saints themselves. Cmon Rob, how many times have Microsoft copied Apple products?

Sep 4, 2007 7:10 PM Guest fred jones  says:

What a bunch of Blu-Ray crybabies.  "Who paid you...blah blah blah" 

 

Unfrickin believable!

 

HD-DVD is Blu-Ray's silent killer.  Once the rumors of Warner Bros. going HD-DVD exclusive its game over for Blu-Ray.

Sep 4, 2007 8:01 PM Guest kk  says:

Hey DHB, maybe you should conduct more research yourself before bashing comments left by BD fans.  Just google blu-ray news and instantly you see more and more companies are siding with BD almost everyday, and that's not enough backups?  More and more titles are coming out in BD format and that's not enough to back it up?  BD dominated the market in Japan and Asia, and with backups from huge companies like Disney, how can anyone denied the grimed future of HDDVD.  Reason price of HDDVD dropped so fast is their desperate dash for market shares.  All those cheap HDDVD units are going to be rendered useless in the up coming months.  Even if it cost under $100, I wouldn't buy the paper weight.  HDDVD is a joke of the real next gen format.

Sep 4, 2007 8:49 PM Guest DHB  says:

Okay kk, name some companies that sided with Sony in the last week.  Name some worthy Blu-ray movies that launched in the last week.

 

Funny you mention Disney as "backing up" BD.  I guess you didn't see the recent news when all of BD exclusives were asked if they had any monetary incentive to go blu-ray.  All companies said no, except for Disney who answered with a "no comment", much like Paramount's response when asked about the deal.

 

Desperate dash for market shares?  Its called strategy.  You see Toshiba sees it better to offer their players at a decent price, while Sony keeps their prices high just because they can and because they're taking so many losses by throwing BD drives in PS3s.  Sony is taking a huge hit by doing this because a good 70-85% of those people getting PS3s aren't going to be playing BDs any time soon.  Sony and Toshiba have two completely different strategies.  Toshiba tries to appeal to a market ready to embrace their hardware while Sony tries to appeal to a market that might buy their BDs.

 

Install rate of Blu-ray players versus HD DVD players is something like 7.5:1, yet in movie sales its only 2:1 (which also dropped this past week).  Toshiba is actually making more profit than Sony right now (if both are even making any).

 

In your rant you never once gave any technical info as to why HD DVD is a joke.  Last time I checked image and sound quality is the exact same.  Yet another BD fanboy with null arguements and regurgitated info about corporate backing which can go just as fast as it came.  Both formats are going to be around for a long time and no matter how much mindless bashing of HD DVD you do.

Sep 4, 2007 10:32 PM Guest 3dpenguin  says:

If you really want to see exactly how far Sony/BDA has gone to try to make BD the HD market standards go and do some research.

 

1) Sony and members of the BDA are members of the DVD Forum, who decided not to back Blu ray, they went with a violet laser technology instead developed by NEC and Toshiba, and this became HD DVD.  Every time the forum tried to pass standards and measures dealing with the new format these members of BDA who were on the standards board voted against them or abstained preventing the HD DVD format from being ratified for several months, and they were only ratified after DVD Forum made changes to the way ratifying votes were handled.

 

2) Sony has given incentives to stores to increase the display status and location of the BD and BD Player locations, most stores stream BD video to their HD TVs or have a BD Player connected to them, and HD DVD usually only has one, maybe two, dedicated HD DVD televisions and DVD display racks, where BD is found usually in two sometimes even three locations in the store.  BDA has also made a deal with Target stores to get end cap displays of BD movies and players more prominently displayed in the stores, these deals include payment for the set up of the displays, this is generally a tactic which companies who dont trust their own technology use, HD DVD does very little promotional advertising, the advertising is left up to the individual companies instead.

 

3) Blu ray players were available for 6 months to 1 year before the PS3 came out, burners longer, but due to lack luster sales of them they didn't start to come down in price until they were forced to by the much cheaper PS3 unit, in most cases, unless you just don't want a game system, the PS3 is still the better deal.

 

4) Over the past year since HD DVD players have started appearing on the market two things have occurred.  One, the players have come down in price, and two, HD DVD has gained a substantial share of the sales market in both player units and movies sold.  Whereas Blu ray players have dropped only a little, just enough to make the player price competitive with the PS3 and the movie sales haven't increased percentage wise with the market, though they are still selling more BD units than the HD DVDs are selling of their perspective units.

 

5) Standards in BD technology haven't even been finalized, and the differences from one player to another can be dramatic, to make matters worse the BD-Java is a bear/monster to program, this has slowed the release of many movies down or force the distribution companies to drop planed extras just to get the movie out on time.

 

6) BDA is holding onto region coding, a standard which most movie companies and distribution companies have been fighting for years because of the extra costs of production and distribution of the DVD format to different regions, DVD Forum had determined this years ago, but since the standard was in place and had been worked out past the cost issues they didn't do anything about it with DVDs but have decided for ease of distribution production not to continue the standard with HD DVD.

 

7) Blue laser technology was first developed about 10 years ago, and was openly talked about by Sony as far back as 2000 as a new data storage format, this format has turned out to be extremely costly to get into, with drives hovering around the $400-500, low end.

 

8) The cost of the Blu ray technology is greater than that of the violet laser technology because of the way the laser works, some analyst say that there is a loss being taken on every Blu ray unit by the companies that own the technology just to keep the unit costs down.

 

9) The sales data for Blu ray is inaccurate; the BDA sells their product as having a bigger customer base with approximately 3m player units in homes, this includes the PS3 units, yet they can only manage a 2:1/3:1 margin in the market against HD DVD which only has between 350-500k units in home, and sales percentage wise only has about a 60% share of the market on average.  They do this kind of sales technique in order to shore up their reports, if they fully disclosed their analytical data on sales and cost they wouldn't be as fresh smelling to potential distributors.

 

10) Some companies who have been riding the Blu ray train have decided to take the center rail and release the combo HD DVD/Blu ray players, the specs of which are much better than the LG one released a few months ago, who can say if this is to reel in potential Blu ray buyers from HD DVD buyers or not, but the $1200+ price tag on the player makes many gun shy of them, these players will just extend the war.

 

11) HD DVD and Blu ray are not limited technologies, the cost of the next next generation players are extreme right now, and the technology which drives them are in their infancy right now, and the use of emerging disc media types which have shown to be compatible with all three laser types and technologies; red, blue, and violet; can extend the formats for upwards to the length of DVD, which will be about 15 years.

 

If one or both formats die, it won't be the fault of the other; it will be the fault of groups like Sony/BDA and the distribution companies for taking sides and not allowing us the consumers to decide which one we want.

Sep 4, 2007 10:52 PM Guest Creepmode  says:

Your article here proves just how ignorant all the commoners are,most people think that blu-ray has one due to the fact that blockbuster announced its commitment, but that is the funny thing, they appeal to a rental crowd, thus ps3 owners, rent movies like they rent games, the arent buying movies. I love it cause i sell electronics and the guys at work tease me cause  i have a hd dvd player,  i was aware of the many advantages of hd dvd, primarily cheaper, easier manufacturing, i just laugh when these companies were and did buildt new factories just for blu-ray, and blu ray is fragile, and the discs are burnt as deep, they are more fragile. as well look up unbias reviews of titles re;eased on both formats almost always have aslight advantage due the encoding process, as well the software for encoding hd is so much more user friendly. oh well i just get pissed at the dummies, all that matters in the end is which format the movie studio chooses.

Sep 4, 2007 11:07 PM Guest 3dpenguin  says:

Informed Consumer, you said Rob Enderle is not credible because of a report from the New York Times, a paper which started the rumors about Paramount getting paid off for an exclusive 18 month distribution contract based on the information of two reliable unnamed Paramount executives?  Also, you also cited a Wikipedia article, a website which is as credible as you make this guy out to be?  As for what the Wikipedia article said there are two things that he is right about, that the articles writer got wrong,

 

1) He is wrong for saying the Linux/Open source movement is bad, he is right though these are a group of people who feel that things that others developed should be free to use by everybody, this communistic socialistic point of view doesn't drive technology, companies like Microsoft, one of this groups favorite targets, would not spend money developing new software types just so they can give it away to these people to cheap to buy it, or lazy to developed it themselves, technology requires the possibility of profit to even be developed.

 

2) His attacks of Apple, back in 1995 he was correct, Apple almost went bankrupt in 1997, if it wasn't for Microsoft investing $150m in the company it would have gone belly up.  Since then Apple has made a turn around, but has shown signs of what got them into trouble in the 90's which lead to the Microsoft investment, and if it wasn't for the changes made over the past 2 years in an attempt to bring down the price of the Mac Apple would be in trouble, but with these changes has also brought the death of the Apple computer, your standard new Apple computer is no different than that PC sitting right next to it, and which means all the Mac is now is just another skin for the PC.

 

He may not be the most accurate with his predictions, but for someone who has been advising for 20 years if all they can come up with is 2 major qualms thats pretty good.  You might take note that he has also been employed by Sony in the past.

Sep 5, 2007 12:12 AM Guest EnviroTO  says:

My understanding is that Dreamworks and Paramount get hundreds of millions of dollars for switching to HD-DVD for 18 months.  So who is throwing money at a loosing battle?  If HD-DVD is the best technology why are they being paid to use it?  If  Blu-ray disc sales are outselling HD-DVD which is the winning format?  Toshiba had to go to China first to get cheap players onto the market because it was loosing the battle... now Blu-ray has signed a Chinese manufacturer as well.  Blu-ray has more movie studios, more hardware partners, and more movies.  Obviously your article is short on facts.  Once Huala and Acer products hit the shelves at low price points I think the game is over for HD-DVD.  The only reason HD-DVD is still around is Toshiba's cheap line of players and Microsoft support.

Sep 5, 2007 1:01 AM Guest Holger Mertz  says:

See this story... "Australia: PlayStation 3 boosts Blu-ray lead against HD-DVD".

Sep 5, 2007 1:42 AM Guest charmed  says:

2 things people, 3D Blu ray player and 3D Hd TVs coming out next year. Can your hd dvd do that? The point is that Blu ray is way ahead technology wise and that will become even more apparent as time goes by. Can't wait.

Sep 5, 2007 1:55 AM Guest DeGen  says:

Very informative and interesting read.  And I must say I agree. 

 

Also, I can't believe how many immature blu boys invaded this thread w/ their dumbass comments.  Read the article before commenting children.

Sep 5, 2007 3:11 AM Guest Bye Bye Blu Ray  says:

Blu Ray had it's glory days, along with the PS3.

 

It lasted about 6 months. Now HD DVD is back on the upswing and will be on top during and after the 2007 holiday season.

 

Lower player prices, new player manufacturers, positive press coverage, and top rated exclusive HD DVD movies in Q4 will seal the deal.

Sep 5, 2007 5:33 AM Guest KiZmEt  says:

This is the most honest article i have read on the subject

 

i AM NOT a paid employee of a company affiliated with either format but i wrote an article along a very similar vein a while ago and here we go again when something like this is published the sony fanboys come out in force.

 

it is overpriced FACT

 

and IMO it will seriously hurt the ps3        sony shot themselves in the foot with this one

Sep 5, 2007 7:00 AM Guest JusMe  says:

Oh look.. What a bunch of BluRay and HD-DVD fanboys commenting..  Both formats are useless... Everything is available for free if you want it.. 

Sep 5, 2007 8:40 AM Guest Lee  says:

It's kind of funny to see all the Sony haters come out and bash BD just because it is Sony.  I don't own any BD or HD-DVD's, I do own a PS3 and have rented BD movies(Which have great quality and more space, but lacking in special features.)  I thought about buying an XBOX 360 with the HD drive, but upon research I found the HD drive to be an ineffective player.  I cannot comment on which has the best quality.  I do believe the HD discs have better special features and enough space to deliver the same great quality.  But this is about which will win, with all the problems involved with BD, that HD does not have, they are still out selling HD.  However neither will win, not because of the other, because it was too soon after people accepted DVDs.  Besides the difference in quality is just a slight difference not the same difference as VHS verses DVD.

Sep 5, 2007 9:38 AM Guest Ex-Sony Fan  says:

An article about product development and most here take it as HD-DVD vs. BD? Other companies should look study Sony for examples of how NOT to do things:

Beta tape

Minidisc

eVilla (internet appliance)

eReader

Blu-ray

 

BD ain't dead yet, but it soon will be...

Sep 5, 2007 12:10 PM Guest Ken  says:

Sour Grapes...

 

I see there are a lot of PS3 kids here. I'd like to thank you boys for bringing so much attention to his article. With your comments tacked onto the end, it really shows people what sort of campaign blu-ray is playing. Hopefully, your mindless regurgitation of baseless accusations will sway future adoptors to avoid blu-ray altogether.

 

If you would just calm down a little, you'd realize that even though blu-ray isn't going to be the next-gen disc format (unless you keep falling for the BDA's smear campaign and manage to spread your gullibility) there will still be games released for your PS3. Also, any movies you purchased will continue to work as well as they did before.

 

Just investigate a little bit when you're reading something the BDA puts out. For instance when they say that they have 66% of stand alone sales. What they didn't come right out and say was that they didn't have 66% of the number of players sold. What they had was 66% of the money from all of the players sold. Since their players are so much more expensive that HD-DVD, that means they sold significantly less stand alone players than HD-DVD did.

 

They might crow about how many players that have sold, but the majority of those are PS3 game consoles. When you compare that number to the number of DVD players sold and the numbers where they'd like to get these players up to some day, PS3 users don't matter long term. And given that HD-DVD is not only still around (after the BDA said they lost I don't know how many times) and is in fact gaining strength again, it just goes to show the lack of judgement the BDA made in placing 99% of their eggs in the PS3 basket.

 

Perhapes if the BDA had allocated more money to R&D and less to FUD, they'd have had a fully functional player by now.

 

The HD-DVD group came up with a solid player, and has concentrated on releasing quality products. They've also avoided the ugly smear tactics used by the BDA and let their superior product speak for itself.

 

I've had an HD-A1 since 04/06 and I haven't had any problems with any of my movies or player (other than slow initial boot-up). I've had a BD-P1200 for a few months and:

 

1. Can't display 4:3(TV series) content properly.

2. Can't send 6.1 or 7.1 pcm over hdmi.

3. rewind locks up player sometimes

4. slow menus

5. audio dropouts on sd-dvd content

 

On a positive note, it can play CDs, unlike the original Sony player.

Sep 5, 2007 1:11 PM Guest Pat Choothesa  says:

Very interesting article and I do agree with you Rob, it is as accurate as it can be.  The only thing I can add to the debate for now is a little warning to the Blu-ray boy scouts not to invest anymore money to their collections.  I hate to see those products end up at the garage sales.

Sep 5, 2007 1:22 PM Guest aBs  says:

I completely agree with the article.

 

People fail to realize that Blu-ray is not what it is advertised to be. Sony used PS3 to force it into homes and in the end it made PS3 failing miserably in sales within the console market.

 

Pittyful.

Sep 5, 2007 2:20 PM Guest John H.  says:

To the disillusioned soul who was talking about 3D HDTV's coming out next year...You are insane. They are out now. I see them at CES and have seen them in Japan at CEATEC shows. They are barely in their infant stages. Picture is crap, 3d effect is limited to about a 15 degree viewing angle, if you notice it at all. One good thing they do is give the viewer an UNBELIEVABLE headache...So you go ahead and hold your breath on that one.

 

Of course, if the Sony spin doctors get their hands on 3D, we'll be told it will be here in 6 months at $200...

Sep 5, 2007 3:07 PM Guest Jake  says:

wow you people who say the ps3 is dead must only look at the first numbers that came out in november

 

"August sales, as reported by Enterbrain, show that Japanese interest in the Wii may finally be slowing, albeit slightly. Wii outsold the PS3 by a factor of six to one in June, four to one in July, and three to one in August.

 

Microsoft's Xbox 360 continues to be a non-factor in the world's second largest video game market selling only 11,000 units last month compared to 246,000 Wiis and 82,000 PS3s."

 

that is from pc world looks like microsoft is realy taking a hit to me and ps3 is not dead

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136769-c,gameconsoles/article.html

Sep 5, 2007 3:18 PM Guest david m  says:

ps3 will always be around but there dvd player wont. hd dvd will win this war .

Sep 5, 2007 3:23 PM Guest david m  says:

ps3 gamers are only looking at the sale of the ps3 and comparing it to xbox sale without the hd dvd player . once hd dvd player comes out for xbox and the low retail price watch out. ps3 gamers are doing a bad comparison.

Sep 5, 2007 5:05 PM Guest David  says:

1.-Obviously Sony had never paid any one to said anything good about Blue Ray

2.- Learn to read "number declined sharply after Paramount and DreamWorks jumped ship" what part AFTER  can't you people spell ? (not the past 12 months)

3.- Cheap means: 200 dlls

Sep 5, 2007 5:06 PM Guest David  says:

1.-Obviously Sony had never paid any one to said anything good about Blue Ray

2.- Learn to read "number declined sharply after Paramount and DreamWorks jumped ship" what part AFTER  can't you people spell ? (not the past 12 months)

3.- Cheap means: 200 dlls vs 400 dlls

4.- What about Quality? (for those who care) HD has beaten Blue Ray with no doubt.

 

Nice article obviously many people won't be happy

Sep 5, 2007 6:19 PM Guest MEME  says:

Wow who let all those paid Sony bloggers into this room?

Or could these guys be braty PS3 fans that are scared of their beloved over priced system becoming  a big joke in the future like the what the Edsel became in cars.

Sep 5, 2007 9:45 PM Guest Wheezledick  says:

Know what's gonna really give Sony a terminal case of the redazz? When they finally are forced to make an HD-DVD player and HD-DVD movies available just to stay in the video market, just like they did when they finally came out of their pout and brought a VHS VCR to the market.

 

People, NEVER trust a company who makes movie players that buys up movie companies. What do you think would happen if one company made gasoline and started buying up auto makers?

Sep 5, 2007 11:36 PM Guest David Bock  says:

I really don't understand why, if someone has an opinion, against someone elses, that they think they got paid off. I guess Disney getting paid off to support BD doesnt matter? I guess only Paramount getting paid off (not confirmed mind you) and giving honest reasons for it, doesnt matter either? And I guess it doesnt matter that HD-DVD came out first, and when it did, was market ready? I guess it doesnt matter that storage capacity really doesnt matter when  we're talking 25+ gigs? I guess it doesnt matter that sony has such a long line up of success... like... UMDs...MDs... SACDs... BetaMAX... No? That doesn't matter either?

 

If you think this guy got paid, you're an idiot. Plain and simple. The guy said his opinion, and he's entitled to it. If he wanted to blast Blu-ray, he could do that to if he supported his views and I wouldn't be running around saying he got paid off either.

 

I support HD DVD because I trust Toshiba over Sony. I support it because it's cheaper and looks the same if not better. And in case you think I have no money and that's why I bought HD DVD over Blu-ray, think about this:

 

1. I have a 50" Panasonic 1080P Plasma. I have a full Klipsch F2 surround system. I have a V861 Yamaha Reciever and I own over a thousand DVDs. Cost, to me, is a plus, but does not bother me if it's worth it.

 

2. The people with no money out weigh the people with money. Do you think people with less money are going to pay twice as much for the same thing? No.

 

Lastly, I end with this. Blu-ray is NOT market ready (I don't care who the hell you are or what movie maker you think you are or what you've dealt with. I know more people who have problems with BDs than I do HDs. In fact, I don't know anyone who's had problems with their HDs. Not one. I know quite a few who've returned their BD players because of the problems. I go with what's ready. What costs right. And the company I can trust. I also trust Microsoft being able to bankrupt Sony, and getting a kick out of it all the way. I think even Apple would help Microsoft do that, now that dreamworks (which is partially owned by apple) is on the HD camp. And all those shiny Macs with Bluray have never happened when they were suppose to in Feb. What does that tell you?

Sep 6, 2007 12:12 AM Guest demollyon  says:

A really thoughtfull post with strong facts. Don't mind the Sony fanboys. They are scared.

Sep 6, 2007 12:17 AM Guest Jeezlouis  says:

You know, I have to say that the article did make some good points.  I liked the reference to the fact that consumers really only want what's useful.  Believe you me, if there was ever a time in history where the average consumer understood the benefits of having "MORE SPACE" - I think that right around now would be it.  I mean the bloated Vista system - has anyone here checked out what the footprint on your hard drive is after an install?

 

Now while I found the article bias - I think a little more research is in order.  I'm not the most savvy when it comes to stuff like this, so I did some research.  Both use the same bloody laser inside - so I'm thinking - The real difference here is that - one disc (BR) has thinner a thinner coating on it compared to the HD-DVD - something to do with the laser and capacity - but that both were quite reliable in using them.  Other than that - one had a hell of a lot more space.  Um.. HELLO?  The one that stores more seems more logical right?  Let's face it - most people don't throw their DVD"s around - (I take great care with mine) so Blue-Ray makes the most sense.

 

Finally - to the dipshits that keep mentioning that Dreamworks and Paramount got a 150 million so that somehow bought their loyalty? 

 

I for one think that rational is BS.  Does anyone that actually made those comments watch any of these movies?  Care to take a guess at what some of those movies cost to make? Care to take a guess at what these things gross?  Ya - Superman - (not sure of the studio) cost 210 million to make - that's right - almost a 1/4 billion dollars to make..  and you think that Dreamworks and Paramount will hedge their bets on a DVD format for a simple 150 million?  That's bloody chump change to these players guys.  They bank on Massively on DVD sales after hearing the ring of the cash register for the theaters. 

 

Blue Ray will be the player on top.  Why?  SONY - SAMSUNG. These two are the biggest players in the LCD/PLASMA world right now and share their technology.  The PS3 Blue-Ray thing was a stroke of genius.  That's right -they took their faithful and gave it great hype and then they delivered. 

 

My last thought.  Don't give me this crap about price.  I saw them both - checked the specs and said - ya- Blue Ray - it's logical - I - Like any consumer that are not the impulsive drones you think we are - will just WAIT until it gets cheaper if it's too expensive.  I mean we do have DVD players in just about everything I own now.  My car, my laptop, my other computer, etc, etc.   I mean this isn't a MUST HAVE.  Prices will come down with demand and I for one have all the time in the world.  I'm a consumer!

Sep 6, 2007 4:44 AM Guest Rob Enderle is a Microsoft supporter.  says:

The HD DVD player of Toshiba is a deficit. PS3 of Sony is a deficit. However, PS3 is a game business. If PS3 did not adopt Blu-ray, Toshiba might not have made the price of the HD DVD player cheap. You are an amateur.

Sep 6, 2007 6:23 AM Guest Philip  says:

When history repeats itself, do you notice.

 

The emotions are self evident that people chose poorly. The first playstation was great though.

Sep 6, 2007 12:00 PM Guest Rick Clancy  says:

If Rob has consulting agreement with any of the HD-DVD members, or has in the past, I would encourage him to fully disclose this information.  He should do the same with the BD camp.  My guess is that MS has thrown him a bone or two over the years.

Sep 6, 2007 1:14 PM Guest Rob Enderle  says:

My opinion is always my own, no one from either side approached me to write on this subject.   I simply thought it was a good way to exemplify a point.  

 

Microsoft is, and at one time Toshiba was, a client but both are complex companies and in neither case was I connected to the group (to my knowledge) that had anything to do with HD-DVD.   With Toshiba it was the PC group and I'm not even sure which group officially backs HD-DVD at Microsoft (Microsoft's support for HD-DVD isn't exactly earth shattering).

 

I'm an inquiry analyst, which means companies pay for the right to ask me questions, I do very little direct consulting and have not consulted on either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.   Consulting creates bias and I try to avoid it as much as possible.  

 

When asked by clients which they should support, my advice remains, support both and let the customer decide which is better.   HP and Gateway appear to follow that advice. 

 

When asked by individuals which they should buy, I generally say but an Oppo DVD player with an up-converter but when the Toshiba got to $238 at Amazon I bought one of those (at around $200 I'll take a chance, over $300 I won't, but that is just how I justified the decision).  I've been pleased with both the Toshiba and the Oppo (bought the Oppo months ago). 

Sep 7, 2007 2:11 AM Guest HGH  says:

You Blu-Ray supporters are dumb because you're so stupid. Everyone knows HD-DVD is the best because it's the most awesome. Every article that supports HD-DVD is true and every article against it is fake. Just like every article that supports Blu-Ray is fake and every article that bashes it is right. Common sense!

Sep 7, 2007 2:42 AM Guest simple32  says:

HGH WTF!

What proof to you have ALL BLU RAY ARTICLES ARE FAKE??

Also Blu Ray stores more and has more backers.

So what advantage does HD DVD over Blu Ray, ONE THING PRICE!

If you want better technologoy you will go with blu ray.

Sep 7, 2007 1:18 PM Guest Chris  says:

Rob,

 

As a dual supporter, I found your article spot on.  Unless something is drastically better (DVD over VHS), increased price will not be supported by the masses.  Since upconversion creates a situation where HD is only marginally better (unless you use a projector, then it is more noticable), the price will be the main trigger for purchase.  HD-DVD has taken the smarter road by creating a product near the price of DVD players and media (though combo disks have created the cost problem again).  With the expected market saturation of Chinese players this holiday season for 150-200 dollars, there is little doubt where the numbers will go.

Sep 7, 2007 1:32 PM Guest Chris  says:

As to all the personal attacks, remember these people are invested in a new format and the possibility that their money will go away angers them, especially if someone tells them they picked the wrong one.  I am a member of many AV forums and in ALL of them, the mods have to keep a tight reign on the emotions between the HD lovers and the BD fanatics.

Sep 7, 2007 10:52 PM Guest Adult industry will win  says:

I hate to say it guys but the one thing people really dont want to publicly admit is that the adult film industry decided the VHS/Betamax war and it will be no different here.  Unfortunately for Blu-ray the cost of printing and producing films in their format is much more expensive than HD DVD and currently out of the 8 Blu-ray printing facilities only one is willing to print adult content.  That being said all but Vivid Studios has chosen HD DVD for their future HD content which cant be good for Blu-ray.  Now for me this doesnt mean much as I haven owed a spank film since I was a young buck but apparently many of you sick bastards cant get the latest romp film fast enough.

 

On another note:  I cannot believe that so many of you believe there have been no kick backs and buy outs of studios from the Blu-ray side.  Why in the world would you believe studios are exclusively behind any format?  Blu-ray has had tons of technical problems which would certainly be enough to scare a studio into at least publishing on both formats but it has not occurred.  You think thats because the studios enjoy programing in Blu-rays horrible BDi?  I dont think so.

 

Technology is moving forward so quickly that yes, the winner of the High Def DVD format will eventually be replaced, but it will likey be by downloadable content not another physical media.  So in the meantime I say buy for the longterm because one of these will be the last physical media format and will be around for a good decade.

Sep 9, 2007 4:02 AM Guest Mike  says:

Great article, the Bluray fans are entertaining, but I guess they've all got nothing better to do until football season heats up.  _

 

Just got my HDDVD player and am waiting on my free movies.  Wish they'd lower the price of the movies in the store though.

Sep 9, 2007 5:28 PM Guest AnswerThis  says:

If blu-ray is really selling more media, why is it that on amazon.com, EVERY SINGLE top selling movie that is available in both formats sells more HD DVD's than blu-rays???? (Planet Earth, Transformers, The Departed, Blue Planet, Heroes, Blade Runner etc....)

 

OH WAIT!!!  Ratattouille is selling more on blu-ray!  The kind of movie I expect morons to buy.

 

Do the games for ps3 count for sales of blu-ray media??

 

Clearly for movies, HD DVD is selling more than blu-ray.

 

For those blu-ray nuts out there, check out amazons top selling movies.  Transformers HD-DVD is #4 and the blu-ray version is like #55 or so. 

 

(I don't have either yet, but it seems to me more people are buying hd dvd for movies so I am leaning that way considering I could not care less about video games)

Sep 10, 2007 1:49 AM Guest Lamps  says:

Re: Transformers

I think you will find that Transformers is by Dreamworks and is therefore not shipping on Blu-ray anymore

 

Blu-ray movies are outselling HD-DVD movies by at least 150% (I am unsure whether that is worldwide, or just in Australia). Out of the top 20 DVD titles for 2006, only 5 were available on HD-DVD, 18 were available on Blu-ray. 1 wasn't available on any format.

 

I continually see articles on the internet and in newspapers referring to HD-DVD players outselling Blu-ray players, however these statistics continue to exclude Xbox360 and PS3, which are extremely relevant, as many people purchasing (around 80%) of PS3 are planning to purchase movies.

 

Personally I have 2 Media Centre PCs, and I use the Pioneer BD/DVD combo drive, which works an absolute treat. Can't do that with HD-DVD.

 

Something that people fail to take account of, Toshiba receive royalties for the patents of DVD pressing technology, which HD-DVD also shares. That is why they so strongly support HD-DVD.

HD-DVD is very much the inferior technology, and offers a lot less for the consumer. If suffers the same durability problems of DVD (BD doesn't) and is supported by less CE companies, movie studios and content creation companies. How can Toshiba possibly stand to compete against Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, LG, Sharp, Philips, Hitachi and Mitsubishi?

 

At this stage, you can't even make your own HD-DVDs. Not only because there are no burners, but because so few software companies are implementing HD-DVD authoring into their software. So, if you use your own HDV or AVCHD camcorders, that where it ends for HD-DVD supporters.

 

end rant

Sep 10, 2007 8:44 AM Guest Cosmix  says:

It's interesting to watch the HD-DVD crowd posturing and whining.  They must realize that if HD doesn't have decent holiday sales the format is doomed and Blu-ray wins.

Sep 11, 2007 7:04 AM Guest Reduman  says:

O dear! Having read through a majority of the posts, the HD-DVD and BD camps appears to already aligned to one 'side' or the other - with a fanticism that makes islamic fundamentalists look tame ... well, almost ..

As a European consumer, I have opted for HD-DVD for 2 main reasons. 1) Price - unit costs are considerably lower for HD-DVD players at the moment. 2) Important to me, in addition, is the fact that up to now (I believe this may change in 2008) HD-DVD discs are not region encoded and therefore I can purchase US discs and play them on my Toshiba player, no problem. (this may be less of a problem for US consumers, but there will also be some European movie content of interest to them)

I have invested heavily in HD. I have a HD camcorder and now with a new notebook (again Toshiba G40), I can at last produce my own HD-DVDs. Contrary to what some people have stated above, HD-DVD burner are available and now coming on stream. I could have waited to see which format "wins" the war ... but I wanted to use today's technology today. Naturally, I hope HD-DVD wins the day, if not, I will simply have to invest in a new Blu-ray player/burner ... it ain't the end of the world either way ... lighten up, guys!

Sep 11, 2007 7:52 PM Guest Megamanx00  says:

Well now it seems like this article has drawn some very strong opinions _. This article dose make a few good points and while I do agree that Blu-Ray may have hurt the PS3 the fact remains that Blu-Ray is selling more movie titles because of the PS3. Looking at the sad figures for stand alone Blu-Ray players makes that obvious. While Blu-Ray is a major factor in the losses Sony is taking from the PS3, remember they loose hundreds for every unit they sell, other design decisions in both hardware and software that Sony made with the PS3 that are also hurting them.

 

A very good point in this article is that for many, DVDs are "good enough." Microsoft's road to OS domination in the early days of computing is a prime example of having something just "good enough" and at the right price. That said every High Defenition formats main competitor is the plain ol DVD. With the two new formats the recently emerged, which are far too little too late, the HD market is fragmented even more. While I too would like to invest in HD formats for my nice new HD TV the truth is that in most cases DVD is good enough and like many consumers I'm waiting the whole mess out until players, and media, are closer in price range to DVDs and DVD players.

 

I think HD-DVD will get there first, but I can't really say I car either way. Of course if software came out that would allow my to play one of those formats on my Linux machine then I might, but I doubt that would happen _.

Sep 11, 2007 7:58 PM Guest Fabian  says:

wow, is clear those blu-ray fundamentalists are so one track minded. I personally was holding off to make a choice of HD format (although I have to be honest that I never trusted Sony's Blu-ray for Sony's sad history at introducing formats).

 

But my mind was starting to pick sides when:

1- Samsung (supposely a Blu-ray only supporter) announced the production of dual format DVD players (BD/HD-DVD)

2- HP (Another BD only supporter) started to ship entertainment laptops with HD-DVD drives

 

And what finally changed my mind is when Paramount, Dreamworks, and Dreamworks Animation went to the full HD-DVD support.

 

Now China annouced they will use HD-DVD as their only HD format. Now China is probably the biggest growing economy in the world so that might be enough to really seal this deal.

 

I think the world is starting to make up its mind about which format is the most viable of both. HD-DVD.

Sep 11, 2007 8:07 PM Guest Zealel  says:

haha i should have guessed this article would have been flamed.  All blu-ray supporters are ps3 nerds, cant really say all hd-dvd supporters are xbox 360 nerds since it was implemented later on.  Just get a life people and accept the fact there is something possibly better than ur beloved product.  Not trying to take sides here.  I dont think either format will take off for awhile.  DVDs are still the way to go.

Sep 11, 2007 10:26 PM Guest Rob Enderle  says:

I think the majority of folks agree with you.  A DVD player with a good upconverter looks good enough on a HD screen from 10' out for most of us.

Sep 12, 2007 2:04 PM Guest Tony Stark  says:

"Adult industry will win" is a total moron. There wasn't a internet during the Beta/VHS war. Do you know how much money porn makes online? Porn will not decide this format war because of all the alternative means. Plus you can hide porn on your computer a lot easier.

 

As for HD fanboys complaining about Blu-Ray "rah rah" fanboys, it's funny how you have the likes of Pat ChoothesaPat Choothesa, demollyon, etc. who were going to agree fully with this article no matter what the content was.

Sep 12, 2007 9:26 PM Guest Charlie Stewart  says:

Sony Fanboys Unite!!

Sep 13, 2007 2:01 PM Guest Raw  says:

Fabian, what do you call the one-track minded HD-DVD posters on here? Or is that somehow different?

Sep 14, 2007 3:02 AM Guest YourMama  says:

Oh, Rob, just go to hell..... thank you, mate

Sep 14, 2007 8:58 AM Guest Phil  says:

Rob, is right.

 

This is about whether Blu-ray is better than HD DVD or not. Its about money and people need to open their eyes to see this. Blu-Ray is costing a huge amount of money to Sony and it should not be a surprise to anyone that Sony is taking a heavy loss on every PS3 sold. Question is how long can Sony continue to absorb these losses? The average person is being drawn to the low cost of HD DVD and the familiar name, and this is what is keeping HD DVD alive. Everyone knows what DVD is, but ask anyone outside gaming and computing "What is Blu Ray?" and you get a blank look.

Sep 14, 2007 11:01 PM Guest Pat Choothesa  says:

I totally agree with Tony Stark on "Adult Industry", they are already making enough money just the way things are. They don't need to release their content on HD DVD.

 

Good luck with the Blu-ray.

Sep 15, 2007 12:14 AM Guest Kenzo Jim  says:

You should disclose that youre a paid Toshiba consultant.

Sep 15, 2007 12:15 AM Guest Kenzo Jim  says:

You should disclose that youre a paid Toshiba consultant(HD DVD DIE HARD FANS).

Sep 15, 2007 12:18 AM Guest Rob Enderle  says:

Currently I'm not engaged with Toshiba, when I was it was Toshiba US and the PC Division.

Sep 15, 2007 2:01 PM Guest Don Mitoma  says:

Great article Rob.  Thanks for the insight.

 

The average consumer is dumb, they don't care which technology is better.  They buy based on low cost, features, and availability.  History has proven this fact an expensive lesson I learned with the Betamax. 

 

A couple of days ago, I did what an average consumer would do.  I walked into Future Shop and purchased an HD-DVD player.  The price was right at $299 and it came with three HD-DVD movies.  I saw no justification in paying double the price for a Blu-Ray DVD player.

 

I believe a number 0f average consumers have an LCD/Plasma TV with HD capabilities and are not using them.  I have a 50" LCD with a max 1080i maximum resolution, therefore bought a 1080i player.  Why would I bother paying an extra $150 for a HD-DVD model that outputs 1080p? 

 

I have no intentions of going out and replacing my DVD collection.  Instead, I'll re-watch my collection on my new player enjoying the upconversion.  A collection that is only costing me $5/DVD from Wal-mart. 

 

So, I am now an average dumb consumer (was a geek in the days of Betamax) as I don't intend on making the same mistake.  However, if I were tempted to purchase a Blu-Ray DVD player, I would buy a PS3 instead, it's currently cheaper than a Blu-Ray DVD player, it's also a gaming console and right now it comes with a game and five free Blu-Ray DVD's (by mail till Sept 30th).

 

I do have a question though, if Blu-Ray production is more expensive than HD-DVD, why are Blu-Ray movies $5 to $10 cheaper than the same HD-DVD movie?

Sep 15, 2007 10:07 PM Guest Rob Enderle  says:

They shouldn't be.  The HD-DVD movies that are more are the Time Warner ones that are regular DVD on one side and HD-DVD on the other.  They charge extra for dual format (300 is like that among others).

Sep 17, 2007 4:14 PM Guest Shadowmaster625  says:

paid toshiba consultant, or just someone who realizes the unfortunate fact that china is capable of nullifying the PS3 in a matter of months

Sep 18, 2007 5:17 AM Guest CC  says:

I half agree and half don't with this article . 

I don't think there will be any true winner in these two format war . but even so, this will be fatal for sony . compare to hd-dvd, blu-ray cause alot more and in order to sell it consider cheap , sony take alot lose.

Sep 19, 2007 7:37 AM Guest Jeff  says:

This is the biggest load of Quadswallop Ive ever heard, BluRay is far better than HDDVD and its potential obviously is beyond your measley comprehension.

Sep 19, 2007 1:56 PM Guest Rob Enderle  says:

But the problem remains it is too expensive and the market appears both happy with standard up-converted DVD and looking to downloads and streaming for the future.   And recent momentum is working against it.

Sep 19, 2007 4:05 PM Guest jwebb  says:

Boy, this article brought out the snotty little girls in the BD camp!

 

I own neither format, but my wallet leans HDDVD. Bitrates, capacity...hell, even current studio support will likely not decide this "war". IT may for early adopters and videophile geeks, but they are about as small a piece of the mass consumer market as both HD formats are in relation to the regualr DVD market.

 

For the avg consumer who just got an HDTV or has been HD for a while and wants to get their movies in HD...imagine this scenaio at XMAS time:

 

On the left, a Sony (or Panny or Samsung) BD player. Cheapest one? $500. On the right, Toshiba's HDDVD players, starting at (likely by XMAS) $200-$250. 

 

next item:

 

WB's BLADE RUNNER 5-disc geek-out boxset. Available in either HDDVD or BD. PQ is IDENTICAL, features are IDENTICAL, but the player for it on the right is almost 1/2 the price.

 

Which route would the avg consumer go, do you think?

Sep 19, 2007 4:10 PM Guest jwebb  says:

And as mentioned above, if China is going HDDVD only.....the world will likely soon follow.

 

They're gonna be running the world one day soon. Kinda scary....but inevitable.

Sep 20, 2007 1:06 AM Guest kenny  says:

HD DVD or Blu Ray

 

I have not bought any of those devices but I will wait for the dust to settle.

 

I am incline toward Blu Ray because of the capacity it provides

 

Capacity for extras for movies

Bloops, Director cuts, scene cutoff

These things are not included in most releases as the studios have not been very ready to add the extras in yet.

 

Capacity for gamers

There was complains from Microsoft and other software game producers that DVD have too little capacity.

So in time, the capacity will be used and better games can be developed

 

In so saying, I believe the winner of this `war` will be, in my honest opinon, the one with the cheapest Hardware

Sep 22, 2007 1:43 AM Guest Atrace  says:

"On the left, a Sony (or Panny or Samsung) BD player. Cheapest one? $500. On the right, Toshibas HDDVD players, starting at (likely by XMAS) $200-$250."

 

Actually Best Buy has the first gen Samsung BD-1000p for 299.99 so yea...

 

And I love the comments about the tide is turning towards hd-dvd. Anyone care to explain how? All I hear (or I suppose I should say see) is idle talk. Studio support, plus 10 manufacturers, plus ps3, plus sales figures for movies all indicate that Blu Ray is winning.

Sep 22, 2007 2:18 AM Guest Allen, Sparks, NV  says:

I think this is the age where consumer will no longer decide which product will survive.  It will all come down to corporate marketing, partnership, and advertisement.  If a new shopper goes into Target to look for a cheap way to get HD, since Target only sells Blu-ray players now, they will buy the cheapest Blu-ray player.  Some dont even know what HD DVD or Blu-ray is, they just walk in, see whats available, and pick one that store employee recommends.

 

For the educated consumers WITHOUT A PREFERENCE to who is backing what, Blu-ray should be the not-so-clear choice.  The reason I say not-so-clear, is the Blu-ray specs still arent finished.  BD+ just launched; Profile 1.1 is finally coming out but profile 2.0 is what we really would like; players are still expensive compare to HD DVD, and the recent loss of Paramount dumping Blu-ray support, they all working against Blu-ray. 

But Blu-ray does have the most advanced audio options like Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, and PCM, which is not available on all HD DVD. (yes I know it is available to MAJORITY of  HD DVD)  AVC video encoding is IMO better than VC-1 in picture quality.  Blu-ray has  much more storage capacity and better encoding rate. 

Overall, the areas Blu-ray is lacking can be fixed easily.  But the area HD DVD is lacking will cost more based on storage capacity needed to make those improvements.

 

For the people who chose the company rather than the format, I know whatever my opinion is wont lessen your hatred and fear, so Im not even going to try

Sep 22, 2007 2:13 PM Guest Rob Enderle  says:

Still, and I have both Blu -Ray (PS3), and HD-DVD (Xbox and Toshiba) players I've been watching movie downloads for the last couple of weeks and am using my Oppo DVD player about 4 to 1 over both HD and Blu in terms of movies I get on optical. 

 

Both Xbox and PS3 are moving to download models (Microsoft is ahead), Vudu is actually very good and with 5000 titles has much more content (though still not enough good content) than either HD format and a good up-converter, and most of the folks I know who were supporting one or the other last year are working on download projects now. 

 

This isn't about Blu vs HD anymore this is about either making it to mainstream and, given what I'm seeing, I increasingly doubt either will make it.   HD-DVD is closer but it can't win as long as Blu-Ray is around.

 

I don't think Sony can exit either so I don't actually see a way out of this that will work.  The groups needed to come together before the PS3 locked in on Blu-Ray, they can't do what is needed now.  They'll just bury each other.

Sep 30, 2007 5:38 AM Guest Larry  says:

Wow- I see all the ps3 fanboys have got their panties in a wad! I just bought a 50" plasma and went ahead and bought a Toshiba hd-dvd. At $270 I'm not worried if it ends up being obsolete in a couple of years. I do like how it is region free and that many of blurays US "exclusive titles" can be imported from europe! Go figure. I loved sony's ps1 and ps2 and was going to get a ps3 when they came out, but then sony started spouting their arrogant bs and insulting my intelligence - well I haven't bought one yet. A lot of other gamers feel the way I do which is why sony is a distant third in console sales.

Oct 3, 2007 11:31 AM Guest BobbyB  says:

Allen Sparks,

 

Target is NOT Blu-Ray exclusive -- they are being paid by Sony to carry their $500 BD player for this holiday season.  This is why they are even offering a single Blu-Ray player -- Sony is paying for the luxury!  And they will not have any additional BD players in their stores.

 

They continue to carry HD DVD discs, the XBox 360 add-on, and other HD DVD players on their website.  In fact, the low-cost Ventura HD player is already on their website for $249 pre-order price.

 

Most of the news that seems positive for Blu-Ray has Sony's money behind it -- the Target announcement, the Blockbuster deal, the new Hastings BD expansion (revenue sharing with Sony), the end-caps at Best Buy (paid by Sony) -- and don't think that Fox and Disney haven't been given mega$ in subsidies & marketing by Sony in the exact same way that Toshiba gained Paramount & Dreamworks' exclusivity...Toshiba just finally decided to get as aggressive as the BDA.

 

This article made many excellent points.  Blu-Ray needed to dominate the market & eliminate the competition in order to recoup the huge investment in BD and the exorbitant costs associated with BD disc manufacturing and creating brand new lines.  The costs were in the billions. 

 

Paramount knew these costs were very real, and they chose to drop Blu-Ray.  If sales were fantastic for BD, studios would NEVER be dropping support, despite generous exclusivity offers from the competition.   Despite what so many PS3 fanboys claim, sales of Blu-Ray certainly are NOT "rocking the world by storm"!

 

Blu-Ray currently maintains a meager 1.46:1 sales lead over HD DVD (with a disparity of ONLY 700,000 discs in total), and this is with the numerous BOGO sales at Best Buy and Fry's and a huge amazon 50%-Off sale on over 40 titles that lasted half a month!  The PS3 has been a complete bust according to expectations, with price drops happening in Japan, US, and now Europe to help spur sales of a console that are well behind the 360 every month.  Hell, Sony had to drop $100 off the 60GB console just to clear out the inflated inventory that was collecting dust in warehouses.

 

I think this article is completely accurate in many respects -- HD DVD was always the format that was much better prepared to take the reigns from DVD.  Once the Blu-Ray claims of superiority proved incorrect, the economical advantages of HD DVD appeared plain as day.  Blu-Ray will become the next UMD -- another failed, Sony proprietary format trying to succeed on the shoulders of a game console.

Nov 15, 2007 10:14 PM Guest Noob  says:

I'll wait for HVD

Dec 6, 2007 8:51 PM Guest Woody Woodpecker  says:

The only thing BobbyB forgot to leave out in his tirade is how Blu-Ray sales is a sign of weakness and that BobbyB will glady pay full price for his HD-DVDs because higher prices mean superiority.

Jan 6, 2008 3:46 PM Guest Calvin Smith  says:

Considering Warner Bros. move to Blu-ray only soon, its doing pretty darn well for a technology that "should have never existed".

Jan 8, 2008 3:38 PM Guest J Smith  says:

Wow, he really did nail this one on the head.  Amazing insight.  I'm glad now that Warner is blu, HD DVD can really take off without them holding them back.  Bravo.

Jan 11, 2008 5:57 PM Guest C D  says:

I think hes fairly accurate in technology and pricing assesments unfortunatley the Warner move is a big blow for HD.   Its rumored that Paramount isnt far behind.   Blu media outsold HD media in the fourth quarter like 8 to 1 or something like that but if you ask the retailers they will tell you that Toshi HD players outsold Blu players at least 5 to 1.  The Blue media is selling because of the PS users and Disney other then that the media is about equal in sales.   You can see Blu Ray disk everywhere but its harder to find HD disks which also ads to those skewed numbers.  Its sad beacuse HD is a better format and offers more interactive technology.  Additionally many more computers are being sold with HD DVD then Blu so this fight will go on for some time.  If you count all the HD DVD players sold in Computers HD DVD is crushing Blu Ray.  You basically need both players and the combos are a waste of money at $900 with inferior features.  This format war sucks!

Jan 11, 2008 6:00 PM Guest C D  says:

Oh yeah the other things are that Sony lost 800 Million dollars last year in the Entertainment . PS3 , Blu Ray division and having worked for Japanese companies for 17 years its only a a mtter of time before they crush the whole division .   They are counting on software sales but as the prices rapidly decrease there will not be any margin there as well.  Makes it even more interesting

Jan 15, 2008 7:46 PM Guest thor240z  says:

Let's revisit the criteria:

 

"Remember if a product:

 

1. Cant stand on its own;

2. Has competitive advantages that actual customers dont care about; and

3. Cant possibly meet cost targets on time."

 

1.   HDDVD discs sold in low qtys, and clearly could not compete with DVD or BD.  Without MS backing holding it up, would it have lasted this long?

 

2. The competitive advantage HDDVD had/has is a 'finalized' spec and internet connectivity.  Actual customers want disc players to watch discs.  They could care less if it does anything beyond playing great video/audio.

 

3. Toshiba heavily subsidized its players along with the $99 Walmart deal.  If it could have sustained the $99 price, it would have met its cost targets.  Clearly, Toshiba could not.

 

In conclusion, your "analysis" shows you're clearly an 'outsider'  with neither good access to info nor good research easily accessible on the net.  I highly suggest you spend more time in a broader range of research before you are ridiculed further.

 

Some example tidbits of info that should have been factors in your blog:

 

As early as the time of this article(Sept '07), you could purchase dual-format HDDVD/BD-ROM drives for the PC for $299.  This should indicate to you that pure manufacturing costs for both formats are equaling & dropping.

 

Toshiba had split from the BluRay Consortium(which was established first), and was pretty much alone in manufacturing & continuing to push HDDVD.

Jan 18, 2008 9:40 PM Guest Dean Gullberry  says:

^^^ Nailed it.

 

Of course, we now have the benefit of hindsight as significant developments have come to light; but still, this now ranks right up there with the bumper crop of tech commentaries that have so hilariously been either (A) behind the times and developments already at the time of writing, or (B) Proven wrong in an embarrassingly short period of time.

 

Such are the pitfalls of Moore's Law, I suppose.

Feb 3, 2008 12:37 PM Guest Mike  says:

LOL! Well this writer wins the prize for most biased review, and most mistakes in a single article.... EVER!

 

I have both Blu-Ray and HD DVD and even though they are both great, it seems fairly clear to me that HD DVD is fighting a losing battle now.  And the PS3 a failure?  I really hope that Mr. Enderle didn't get paid to write this article!

Feb 12, 2008 5:27 PM Guest Brian  says:

Once again, Enderle's brilliant predictions and analysis laid bare for the world to see.  Even at the time this was written, Blu-ray was beating HD DVD and it's gotten much worse since then.

Feb 21, 2008 10:54 AM Guest Sam  says:

GAME- SET - MATCH! Bye bye HD DVD Way to call it there "President and principle analyst"  Rob Enderle. GET A REAL JOB WILL YOU

Mar 23, 2008 1:38 AM Guest Allan Silliphanr  says:

There is an obvious role for the highest level of DVD gear and disk technology, with progressive scan, HDMI cabling,

16x9 wide format and "up-converting". The royalty on a DVD disk is $.12, not several dollars, and the production is far less. I work in HD3D digital. We would like to have our shows on BLU-RAY disks, but we damn sure want them played in some form of progressive scan, with up-sampling, widescreen and HDMI cables. Our HD3D production requires that. But if Blu-Ray wants an arm and a leg, we'll just say our high grade disks are "BLU-RAY FRIENDLY"!

People who only sell a few tens of thousands of copies, ona given title can't pay the freight!

Jun 23, 2008 6:16 PM Guest elpep  says:

Stupidest thing I've read in a while

Aug 12, 2008 4:26 PM Guest BD Consumer  says:

Well, after reading some comments against DB and HD-DVD, my only question is... what mr. Rob have to say about its article after knowing at this time the media war is over, and the truly King is today Blu-ray ? 

CONSUMER COULD NOT BE WRONG.

Please! we want to hear from you ! Say something!!!

Pleeeaassee ?

Aug 14, 2008 2:50 PM Guest Rob Enderle  says:

Blu-Ray has yet to ramp to volume and the PS3 remains a distant 3 of 3.  Yes it took out HD-DVD  but it then stalled the HD market move.  Sony remains massively cash negative on this and, if you've looked at their finanials, is in rather bad shape at the moment.

Dec 25, 2008 8:32 AM Guest Rem  says:

You sir fail!

Jan 18, 2009 12:15 AM Guest Dan the Man  says:

Blu-Ray already WON!  Na, Na na, Na na...     NA!!!

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